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MrYenko posted:This guy wins the Has to be more than just the BJ part right?
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Jun 13, 2015 02:32
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registration award.
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Jealous Cow posted:Has to be more than just the BJ part right? The 'two for one' part also? MrYenko posted:We also have a bizjet company that just started flying around with the callsign "screamer." They only use one flight number: 69. What's their ICAO code?
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Jun 13, 2015 03:02
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two_beer_bishes posted:What's their ICAO code? SCM
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Jun 13, 2015 04:08
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MrYenko posted:SCM Thanks, always curious about the fun callsigns!
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Jun 13, 2015 05:40
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two_beer_bishes posted:Thanks, always curious about the fun callsigns! Have I got a document for you: http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/orders_notices/index.cfm/go/document.information/documentID/1021047
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Jun 13, 2015 14:25
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The Ferret King posted:Have I got a document for you: Oh yeah! Thanks!
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Jun 14, 2015 00:08
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The worst is for Nigeria. Hands down.
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Jun 14, 2015 00:17
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Area next to me is having a rough morning. 2 Exec Jets coming off STL declared an emergency and returned to the field and then they just had a Saratoga drop off the radar at 5000 feet over UBX. Someone at the airport heard an impact and apparently they've already called the coroner.
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Jun 14, 2015 14:23
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fknlo posted:Area next to me is having a rough morning. 2 Exec Jets coming off STL declared an emergency and returned to the field and then they just had a Saratoga drop off the radar at 5000 feet over UBX. Someone at the airport heard an impact and apparently they've already called the coroner. gently caress.  drat, one confirmed dead so far. Tommy 2.0 fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Jun 14, 2015 |
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Jun 14, 2015 19:23
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Tommy 2.0 posted:gently caress. Yeah, guy and his dog were on board. Dog died too. They said they found a wing intact about a half mile from the crash site so it looks like he may have lost it and gone down. That loving sucks. Not a drat thing you can do at that point if you aren't in a Cirrus.
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Jun 14, 2015 20:27
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loving hell.
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Jun 14, 2015 20:32
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Reading the news stories that are coming out, he apparently texted his family that he was experiencing turbulence? As far as I know, he didn't relay that to the controllers he was talking to. From what they said, he said he was in the clear and getting a few light bumps. He was headed towards some weather, but it had been called a few times and there was a Cape Air a few miles behind him and 2000 feet above.
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Jun 14, 2015 20:36
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Dramatically exceeded rough air maneuvering speed and got some unfortunately timed shear?
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Jun 14, 2015 21:22
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Though not as grim, the air conditioner failed at my facility over night while I was on my midnight shift. It was already 83deg before the sun came up this morning and it's a hot one today. I heard they've been battling multiple radar scope failures, and my weekend just started.
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Jun 14, 2015 21:27
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fknlo posted:Yeah, guy and his dog were on board. Dog died too. They said they found a wing intact about a half mile from the crash site so it looks like he may have lost it and gone down. That loving sucks. Not a drat thing you can do at that point if you aren't in a Cirrus. Well, airframe parachutes can be installed on most aircraft of that class but yes.
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Jun 14, 2015 21:34
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hobbesmaster posted:Well, airframe parachutes can be installed on most aircraft of that class but yes. Maybe so but they're not.
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Jun 14, 2015 21:48
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Partially because for many existing aircraft adding one would cost as much or more than the aircraft itself.
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Jun 14, 2015 21:55
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MrYenko posted:This guy wins the Pretty sure James may has 'em beat: 
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Jun 15, 2015 13:38
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Bad Angus! Bad!
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Good catch by the Chicago Midway controller when Delta 1328 mistakenly took a take off clearance intended for Southwest 3828 on an intersecting runway. Article has audio: http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2015/06/17/two-planes-at-midway-began-takeoffs-at-same-time/
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Jun 18, 2015 18:32
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The Ferret King posted:Good catch by the Chicago Midway controller when Delta 1328 mistakenly took a take off clearance intended for Southwest 3828 on an intersecting runway. Article has audio: Stupid news radio. Incident at ~9 min, hope you like heterodyne http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kmdw/KMDW-Twr-Jun-17-2015-0030Z.mp3
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Jun 18, 2015 18:57
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Shouldn't those flight numbers be spoken as "three eight two eight" and "one three two eight" to help avoid this sort of issue?
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Jun 18, 2015 19:03
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They should be spoken in group form as was done. However when a similar sounding callsign issue is known, the carrier should be spoken both before and after the flight number. "Southwest 3828 Southwest." Additionally the pilots should be advised of the similarity. That said, similar flight numbers should not routinely be scheduled to go through the same airspace at the same time. Repetitive issues of this kind are escalated through regional offices and the FAA coordinates with airlines to fix the issue. The Ferret King fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Jun 18, 2015 |
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Jun 18, 2015 19:19
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The Ferret King posted:They should be spoken in group form as was done. However when a similar sounding callsign issue is known, the carrier should be spoken both before and after the flight number. "Southwest 3828 Southwest." Additionally the pilots should be advised of the similarity. Hmm, I learned something new today! How are three-digit flight numbers grouped -- I assume with the first number spoken alone and the second two grouped?
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Jun 18, 2015 19:50
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PT6A posted:Hmm, I learned something new today! How are three-digit flight numbers grouped -- I assume with the first number spoken alone and the second two grouped? Usually yes 323 - Three Twenty Three 546 - Five Forty Six 410 - Four Ten 100 - One Hundred 101 - One Zero One, or One Oh One (people fight about this)
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Jun 18, 2015 20:22
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Our staffing situation is so hosed. One of our areas had five people tonight. Naturally weather popped up just to the north of them and "They're going to route traffic around them through us" just turned into a complete clusterfuck at the end of the night as it was all routed through them. Good job getting to staffing levels that put you in that position when you take a couple of sick leave hits and no one answers the phone for overtime. We're going to be so hosed in the not too distant future.
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Jun 21, 2015 04:30
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Sign off all the trainees. Let god sort them out.
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Jun 21, 2015 04:48
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fknlo posted:Our staffing situation is so hosed. One of our areas had five people tonight. Naturally weather popped up just to the north of them and "They're going to route traffic around them through us" just turned into a complete clusterfuck at the end of the night as it was all routed through them. Good job getting to staffing levels that put you in that position when you take a couple of sick leave hits and no one answers the phone for overtime. We're going to be so hosed in the not too distant future. We had four last night. All four were plugged in at eight pm, and the low side asked for a tracker. TOO BAD. Weather had all four Miami DTAs funneled into one big hole, and flow refused to give us in-trail out the gates, basically said  we don't know what's so hard while yelling RELEASED into the phone. Myself and my trainer both volunteered for OT at seven, and were denied.Its willful.
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Jun 21, 2015 16:03
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Does the rest of the world group numbers like that, or is it one of those uniquely American things?
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Jun 21, 2015 16:52
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thehustler posted:Does the rest of the world group numbers like that, or is it one of those uniquely American things? Founs this in ICAO Annex 10 Chapter 5 quote:5.2.1.4.1.1 All numbers, except as prescribed in 5.2.1.4.1.2, The exception noted is for stuff not related to callsigns, like altitudes or runway visual range.
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Jun 21, 2015 17:56
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It's the same in marine communications, we're supposed to break up every number into its component digits. There's even a phonetic alphabet for numbers that no one ever uses, I assume it's the same in aviation.
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Jun 21, 2015 18:03
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FrozenVent posted:It's the same in marine communications, we're supposed to break up every number into its component digits. I wish there was still an HTML version on faa.gov, but if you want to know anything about how US ATC says things it's all found in JO 7110.65 Ch. 2 Sec. 4. Specifically 2-4-17, and 2-4-20.
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Jun 21, 2015 18:18
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Hey ATC friends, if I'm asking for VFR flight following in your charlie airspace, and my intentions are just to putz around sightseeing, what's the best way to tell you that? I have a sort of standard tour I give to people and a lot of it is in and near some charlie with very friendly and helpful approach controllers. I always feel like I'm telling them too much when they ask my intentions and I say something like, "we're gonna fly around in the suburbs then circle around downtown and then fly around near the lake." I'm usually a little more brief than that but it still feels like too much and I don't know if I sound like a rambling idiot. edit: I should mention that my usual path takes me right over the charlie airport or close to it, so they occasionally have to give me some instructions to keep away from their traffic.
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Jun 22, 2015 01:37
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MrYenko posted:Its willful. It's only a matter of time until bad poo poo happens. DNova posted:Hey ATC friends, if I'm asking for VFR flight following in your charlie airspace, and my intentions are just to putz around sightseeing, what's the best way to tell you that? I have a sort of standard tour I give to people and a lot of it is in and near some charlie with very friendly and helpful approach controllers. I always feel like I'm telling them too much when they ask my intentions and I say something like, "we're gonna fly around in the suburbs then circle around downtown and then fly around near the lake." I'm usually a little more brief than that but it still feels like too much and I don't know if I sound like a rambling idiot. I like to know what aircraft in my airspace are doing, they probably do too. Just try and keep it as short as possible while still getting what you're doing across.
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Jun 22, 2015 02:52
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DNova posted:"we're gonna fly around in the suburbs then circle around downtown and then fly around near the lake." Sounds fine. Include the part about needing to overfly the primary airport. Good to go. I'm assuming the approach control is familiar with which suburbs/lake you're referring to? We only have one lake in each area of jurisdiction for my approach control. But "suburbs" wouldn't describe anything specific to me. Terrain/Highway map features vary in fidelity from facility to facility. I think ours are pretty good, but I've worked approach controls where the geographical map wasn't that detailed. Our radar maps show mostly airports, intersections, airways, etc. Basically, airspace and aviation related stuff. Additional maps can be selected on demand and may or may not include the features you're describing. When in doubt, refer to prominent fixes or radial/DME off a local navigational aid to make sure we know what you're wanting to do. The Ferret King fucked around with this message at 05:14 on Jun 22, 2015 |
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Jun 22, 2015 04:39
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Thanks for the number stuff. So my question is, if this is a really bad idea, why do American ATCs/pilots do it. Or does it happen elsewhere too? It seems like everyone complains about Americans using non-standard phraseology. Sometimes even in this thread 
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Jun 22, 2015 09:51
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thehustler posted:Thanks for the number stuff. I don't think it's a bad idea. EDIT: In the above situation at Midway how much would it have helped? "Delta One Three Two Eight" "Southwest Three Eight Two Eight" Seems like they're still similar enough to create likely confusion on a busy frequency. The Ferret King fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Jun 22, 2015 |
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Jun 22, 2015 16:43
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SOUTHWEST YELLOW RED WAGON CLEARED FOR TAKEOFF. DELTA BLUE GUMMY BEAR LINE UP AND WAIT.
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Jun 22, 2015 20:17
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Oh, and non standard phraseology isn't a uniquely American thing. It's a drift in attention to detail and it can be found in many cultures and industries. Also, depending on what sort of traffic is being worked, there just isn't phraseology to cover all situations.
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Jun 22, 2015 20:24
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The Ferret King posted:I don't think it's a bad idea. On HF we can't group numbers, we're required to say each number like that. I'm not sure if it's a company rule or if it's an ICAO thing, but it can be the difference in understanding the callsign or not.
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Jun 22, 2015 20:36
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I linked the relevant ICAO document in a post above, which cites the requirement to speak out numbers in serial for callsigns. Callsigns in group form are a U.S. FAA ATC practice. Possibly other countries, but I'm not certain (would love to hear from others who know). The FAA deviates from ICAO standards in many areas. Though, lately, changes have been coming to bring some procedures in line with ICAO standards. For example, the recent change of "Position and Hold" to "Line Up And Wait."
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Jun 22, 2015 20:43
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