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ShadowCatboy posted:How do these people come into being? Seriously. Defective, marginalized people like to demonize even more marginalized people so that they feel, you know, normal or accepted or whatever. The part of the conservative platform that isn't all about benefiting the wealthy is all about demonizing people. Honestly surprised more furrys, and goons for that matter, aren't heavy into bullshit rightwing politics. Rather than giving them an ego boost by hating on kid and dog fuckers, it would give them a much broader boost, hating on huge swathes of people like immigrants and women.
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Jun 15, 2015 00:04
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Camrath posted:I am in fact also a LARPer, though I get the impression that it's a much less loaded term over here than it is stateside. And there are some commonalities between the two communities- frankly I think it's a nerd/geekdom thing. I'll give it a listen tomorrow and get back to you. Do you think larping is less loaded in the UK because of the legacy of Morris dancing, etc?
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Jun 15, 2015 00:39
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LARPing is less loaded in Europe in general than it sounds like it is in the US, not just in the UK.
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Jun 15, 2015 01:39
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The average lifespan of a lion is 10 - 14 years. Since that's about how long you were in the fandom, would you say there could be a correlation?
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Jun 15, 2015 09:53
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Waci posted:LARPing is less loaded in Europe in general than it sounds like it is in the US, not just in the UK. Whats the loaded US meaning?
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Jun 15, 2015 10:10
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Sweevo posted:Whats the loaded US meaning? The US culture, at least in fantasy-style games, is pointed to as terrible for a few reasons, including "calls" (dudes yelling out numbers), intense weird social cliquishness, bloated rulesets, and a few organizations having really low standards for costuming and a bunch of lawsuits. It's weirdly divided, especially because the "standard" model evolved out of the New England game style, which is a once-a-month game that tended to attract people who saw it as their entire social life. There's also a cultural difference: a lot of good games in Europe are done as fests - a big game once a year with thousands of participants and light rules - or smaller self-contained games that end after a while, as opposed to the US style of running a long, continuous storyline with higher and higher numbers in it. There's also a bunch of gear differences - latex weapons are the base standard in Euro-larp, whereas a lot of US games think they're witchcraft and ban them due to safety concerns stemming from poor understanding of how to deal with safety. Admittedly, I'm part of a few US groups that follow the Euro model and allow full contact/wrestling while having high costume standards, so I'm biased in making fun of the lovely US games. In general, LARP in the US and furries intersect depending on groups and games. Generally, high fantasy games that follow Nerd Social Fallacy of trying to tolerate lovely behavior end up attracting the terrible ones. I just give the warning of "Any game with an anthropomorphized animal as a player race will have furries." Some of the tech has been useful. I met a guy who did a great mutant costume based on some furry costuming techniques.
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Jun 15, 2015 10:53
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Skeesix posted:Do you think larping is less loaded in the UK because of the legacy of Morris dancing, etc? Not due to that, no. I think it's more down to having strong traditions of reenactment etc. Sweevo posted:Whats the loaded US meaning? This is best described through pictures.  as opposed to  or  .Note the differences in kit standards and weapons in particular. Hedningen posted:The US culture, at least in fantasy-style games, is pointed to as terrible for a few reasons, including "calls" (dudes yelling out numbers), intense weird social cliquishness, bloated rulesets, and a few organizations having really low standards for costuming and a bunch of lawsuits. It's weirdly divided, especially because the "standard" model evolved out of the New England game style, which is a once-a-month game that tended to attract people who saw it as their entire social life. Thanks for this post, but a couple of minor corrections. Fest systems generally have 4 events a year, and DO have an ongoing plot- in the case of the Lorien Trust, the main system I play in, the plot stretches back for the best part of 30 odd years. It's just that in a field of several thousand people there's a lot of /different/ plots to get involved in, should you so desire. Or you know, create your own stories through interacting with other factions/groups/players. Edit: I do know of a few furries and ex-furries who LARP, but nearly every game I play offers an anthropomorphic race option, and 99% of the players of such are completely unassociated with furrydom in any way. There was one girl who tried to LARP in a fursuit (she's a professional suitmaker) and it was discovered that she couldn't run or fight and had a tendency to trample other players due to the awful vision of her suit. Camrath fucked around with this message at 11:48 on Jun 15, 2015 |
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Jun 15, 2015 11:33
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From those photos, I want to hypothesize a lot of the difference in US / EU LARPers is that european groups include the people who would instead become Civil War reenactors here.
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Jun 15, 2015 18:23
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Kind of off topic, but what traditions of reenactment does Europe have? I've never really heard of anything like that before.
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Jun 15, 2015 20:30
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Xun posted:Kind of off topic, but what traditions of reenactment does Europe have? I've never really heard of anything like that before. Lots, actually. This is just for the UK: http://www.historic-uk.com/LivingHistory/ReenactorsDirectory/
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Jun 15, 2015 20:32
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I identified off and on as an ABDL for several years as a coping mechanism to handle various forms of stress I was experiencing in my life (teasing at school when I was younger, relationship issues later in life, etc...). I no longer claim this title after working with my therapist as it was effectively a less than healthy coping mechanism and one that I no longer need. Part of the community I interacted with were the "babyfurs". As mentioned off hand in an early post these are AB/DL's who are also furries and manifest their infantilism through their fursonas in addition to whatever other form it takes for them. (My profile image was actually made for me by a babyfur artist). If (for some reason) you are interested in the perspective of someone who has interacted with this specific subfandom I can provide input as well. I was never a self identifying member of the subfandom or fandom at large and actually hadn't seen an in the flesh furry until a recent anime convention. However my experience with them online provided me with substantially more insight than most have experienced as evidenced by this topic. One observation that the OP touched on is the relationship between furries and homosexuality. I personally feel that this is still the case, and would make the conjecture that as a "queer" lifestyle choice in that it does not fit into the standard heteronormative lifestyle (rigid gender roles and vanilla interests), it creates a more open mind in regards to heteroflexibility (as in self identifying cissexual men who are open to homosexual activities). Though as someone who identifies as queer with a soft spot for gender/sexual identity issues (I am a cisgendered male individual) who cosplayed a female character at the con. I may be projecting somewhat. jiffypop45 fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Jun 15, 2015 |
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Jun 15, 2015 22:05
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Xun posted:Kind of off topic, but what traditions of reenactment does Europe have? I've never really heard of anything like that before. When I was a kid I've been to a Gallic reenactment fair on vacation in Auvergne, located near ancient Gergovia, where the famous battle took place. Mostly stuff like people selling Gallic inspired trinkets, activities for kids, people in armor fighting, and a dinner that was adapted to the era (I think it was mostly turnips and stuff like that, some meat, it's been a while). It was kind of boring I thought. edit: and there were horses. Kurtofan fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Jun 15, 2015 |
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Jun 15, 2015 22:12
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What is ABDL?
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Jun 15, 2015 22:36
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Skeesix posted:Do you think larping is less loaded in the UK because of the legacy of Morris dancing, etc? As a Morris dancer, I don't think so, no. Morris is really more of an older person's thing in my experience. Morris and LARP are so spectacularly different that while I'm sure there's some overlap it's not related at all. I don't know what the Morris scene is like in the UK but in the US and Canada there will be camping weekends and lots of Morrising but no role-playing or taking on a persona or anything.
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Jun 15, 2015 22:43
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Cichlid the Loach posted:What is ABDL? That's a pretty simple question that warrants a fairly complex answer but I'll try to keep it brief since this is a thread about the OP's experience with the furry fandom and I was merely chiming in that I had experience with a specific subfandom of it. ABDL is Adult Baby/Diaper Lover, and refers to individuals who either as a coping mechanism, paraphilia, or just hobby take on the mindset of a child via whatever activities or paraphernalia put them in that head space. This can be diapers, pacifiers, bottles, children clothing, etc... For me it was never sexual, and as stated originally was just a coping mechanism, as whenever I would regress it would in a sense free me from responsibility and the negative emotions associated with it. Typically this would involve role plays with other individuals in which I would play the part of the younger sister (which if viewed from the right perspective translates to a form of top/bottom play). It manifests itself different for different people and no one person does it the same. Again, this topic is about the OP's experiences as a furry, so let's try and keep it going in that direction.
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Jun 15, 2015 22:52
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jiffypop45 posted:I identified off and on as an ABDL for several years as a coping mechanism to handle various forms of stress I was experiencing in my life (teasing at school when I was younger, relationship issues later in life, etc...). Interesting. It sounds rather like we've had the same sort of journey, though through seperate groups. Though I knew quite a few babyfurs socially (provided they didn't talk about their fetish- that was a route to being told to gently caress off promptly) I only interacted with a group of them once in.. I guess full regalia? My first Anthrocon a load of them came into a booth at TGI Fridays' next to us. Drove us out with the combined crinkling of diapers (which for some reason gives me a sick headache) and the intermingled stench of BO, sex and poo poo. Within the context of the ABDL groups you were involved in, would that be considered acceptable behaviour? I'm not being bitchy- I'm honestly curious as to social mores surrounding such things.
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Jun 16, 2015 00:02
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Morris dancing is an important and ancient tradition without which winter would never be banished, please do not compare it to your childish hobbit roleplay sessions
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Jun 16, 2015 02:35
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Camrath posted:Interesting. It sounds rather like we've had the same sort of journey, though through seperate groups. The majority of ABDL's I've been around were extremely low key with their interests though I would believe this to largely be due to the stigma associated with it and the propensity people have to associate infantilism with pedophilia. In very much the same way it seems that a lot of people in this topic have the misunderstanding that furries are first and foremost a sexual interest. While there are certainly diaper fetishists I feel that its a relatively small portion of the population at large. The babyfurs I've met were not at all like what you're describing, it's unsettling actually when people see it portrayed in an extreme and even if its subconscious tend to associate it with the group as a whole. The CSI episode portraying infantilism, television specials that portray individuals who have gone to the extreme of creating their own baby rooms with adult cribs (one of the individuals on such a show was from a site I used to frequent), and I've even seen a screenshot from SA of people discussing a user called "pamperchu" who would dig in the trash for used diapers.
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Jun 16, 2015 02:40
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The gradations you're describing don't really matter that much. The basic idea of it is what's shocking and repellent to me. Sorry to be blunt, I know it was a reaction to trauma and you've worked through it, but it isn't the representation of it for me, it's the literal idea of regression and, no matter what, it has a sexual component to it even if that component is the abdication of sexuality. Camrath, are there other intersections of, non-pejoratively, fringe sexuality or other behavior with furries? On the sexual side, I've heard that BDSM is quite a bit more prevalent than in the 'average' population, on the non-sexual, aside from being overwhelmingly a geek thing, does it have any other intersections? We covered politics already, but what about the 'otherkin' people, people claiming to have lived before, people calling themselves stuff like 'psychic vampires', the other fringe stuff like that?
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Jun 16, 2015 02:57
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jiffypop45 posted:I identified off and on as an ABDL for several years as a coping mechanism to handle various forms of stress I was experiencing in my life (teasing at school when I was younger, relationship issues later in life, etc...). We all knew where this thread was going but since you took it straight over the finish line in under six pages you might as well post your making GBS threads in diaper pics, there's nowhere else to go from here
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Jun 16, 2015 03:22
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jiffypop45 posted:One observation that the OP touched on is the relationship between furries and homosexuality. I personally feel that this is still the case, and would make the conjecture that as a "queer" lifestyle choice in that it does not fit into the standard heteronormative lifestyle (rigid gender roles and vanilla interests), it creates a more open mind in regards to heteroflexibility (as in self identifying cissexual men who are open to homosexual activities). Being "queer" isn't a lifestyle choice or kink so no being a furry or an ABDL or whatever isn't queer (and don't try and pull the "anything abnormal is queer because queer means weird" stuff. That's not what it has meant for the past... drat, what? Thirty years?). Since you're apparently not straight, you should know better, honestly.
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Jun 16, 2015 04:53
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jiffypop45 posted:I identified off and on as an ABDL for several years as a coping mechanism... How do you get into diaper fetishes as a coping mechanism. I can understand maladjusted people becoming furries for the social interaction and stuff, because it's not necessarily a sexual thing and it's not inherently gross. But I don't believe that anyone could be so desperate for acceptance that they join a community of guys who poo poo into diapers and jack off in the lovely diapers
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Jun 16, 2015 06:48
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AnxietyMan1488 posted:How do you get into diaper fetishes as a coping mechanism. I can understand maladjusted people becoming furries for the social interaction and stuff, because it's not necessarily a sexual thing and it's not inherently gross. But I don't believe that anyone could be so desperate for acceptance that they join a community of guys who poo poo into diapers and jack off in the lovely diapers Who are we to judge? Human sexuality is highly complex, and people often use sexual behaviour to work through or express a broad range of emotional, psychological, and even spiritual issues. Furthermore, it's very common in all cultures for there to be a disparity between what is socially acceptable and what is actually practiced, so - Oh, who am I kidding, it's horrifying.
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Jun 16, 2015 07:41
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AnxietyMan1488 posted:How do you get into diaper fetishes as a coping mechanism. I can understand maladjusted people becoming furries for the social interaction and stuff, because it's not necessarily a sexual thing and it's not inherently gross. But I don't believe that anyone could be so desperate for acceptance that they join a community of guys who poo poo into diapers and jack off in the lovely diapers loving hell, this. I was moderately interested to read about some guy who used to be a furry then realised they're a bit odd and left, but of course the adult baby freaks have to roll into the thread. What the gently caress. Here's a question then: Do the adult baby brigade always turn up at furry meets/cons? Surely they're fairly despised (seeing as how they're essentially wannabe pedophiles just wearing the kid's clothes as well)?
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Jun 16, 2015 09:43
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DeliciousPatriotism posted:
There's a person with a coyote for an avatar on this forum named Moerketid who lives in the Netherlands. I wonder if they're the same person. jiffypop45 posted:I identified off and on as an ABDL for several years as a coping mechanism to handle various forms of stress I was experiencing in my life (teasing at school when I was younger, relationship issues later in life, etc...). How does this work as a coping mechanism? It doesn't seem like something that makes much sense to me. I am having a hard time drawing a path from stress to "pooping in a diaper gives me a boner." Is it even something you can put into words? Hate Fibration fucked around with this message at 09:59 on Jun 16, 2015 |
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Jun 16, 2015 09:45
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I kind of want to hear about Jiffypop's thing because I find these weird Internet sexual fetish subcultures fascinating.
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Jun 16, 2015 09:57
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jiffypop45 posted:The majority of ABDL's I've been around were extremely low key with their interests though I would believe this to largely be due to the stigma associated with it and the propensity people have to associate infantilism with pedophilia. In very much the same way it seems that a lot of people in this topic have the misunderstanding that furries are first and foremost a sexual interest. While there are certainly diaper fetishists I feel that its a relatively small portion of the population at large. So basically people assume the worst is standard? I'll admit, the entire ABDL makes me feel /really/ uncomfortable even before you get to people like the ones I mentioned in my last post, but what you're saying makes sense. As it hurts nobody, I tend to take the view 'if I don't need to see it (or smell it) then I don't really give a poo poo what happens behind closed doors'. Obdicut posted:Camrath, are there other intersections of, non-pejoratively, fringe sexuality or other behavior with furries? On the sexual side, I've heard that BDSM is quite a bit more prevalent than in the 'average' population, on the non-sexual, aside from being overwhelmingly a geek thing, does it have any other intersections? We covered politics already, but what about the 'otherkin' people, people claiming to have lived before, people calling themselves stuff like 'psychic vampires', the other fringe stuff like that? As I was never active in the sexual side as such, I only know about what people have talked about (though as mentioned before, a lot of them could have done with talking a lot less..). Furry BDSM is certainly a thing, but then that seems to be fairly common in normal life these days too. As for otherkin and the like- they've been around on the fringes pretty much since the beginning, but they tend to be considered by the majority a bit off and crazy. I did know one guy who had medically diagnosed lycanthropy (it's a psychological/psychiatric condition), in that he'd mentally regress to acting like a dog or wolf during times of stress- but this guy was also completely loving mental on a level beyond almost anyone else. Fun fact, he also works as a professional Boris Johnson impersonator. Psychic vampirism is iirc a LaVey satanism thing? I've certainly never come across anything like that.
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Jun 16, 2015 11:40
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Are there any people with hypertrichosis in the community?
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Jun 16, 2015 12:25
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Captain Clown posted:Being "queer" isn't a lifestyle choice or kink so no being a furry or an ABDL or whatever isn't queer (and don't try and pull the "anything abnormal is queer because queer means weird" stuff. That's not what it has meant for the past... drat, what? Thirty years?). Since you're apparently not straight, you should know better, honestly. I disagree with your semantics. I've seen queer used several times over to represent sexual/gender identities that aren't Cis/Hetero. However, that's a minor sticking point really, I believe that outside of that word I've conveyed what I meant well enough that it should be clear what I intended to communicate. While I didn't intend to steer away from the OP, they seem interested as well so I'll expand a little on what I was going to say. I will start by clearing up some misconceptions that I touched on very briefly. 1. Infantalism (paraphilic or otherwise) is not in any way shape or form synonymous with pedophilia and the community as a whole goes to great lengths to make that distinction and do everything in their power to remove individuals who would be of that persuasion 2. The percentage of the community at large that achieves sexual arousal from the paraphernalia associated with it is relatively small compared to the community at large (though, I personally find these people a little odd as it was never that way for me, they are generally still accepted presuming it's safe/sane/consensual). Additionally as someone else mentioned alternative lifestyles tend to beget for one reason or another BDSM crossover, which I saw a bit of as well. 3. The percentage of the community that actually "poops" in the diaper is extremely small (the term within the circle is refereed to as "messing"). I would say less than 5% of the group as a whole does this, personally I find it disgusting to even consider but, as the OP said even within fringe groups we tend to marginalize the extremes, so as long as I don't have to smell or see it I'm not really that bothered by it. Milky Moor posted:I kind of want to hear about Jiffypop's thing because I find these weird Internet sexual fetish subcultures fascinating. More than one person asked this but, since this individual was the least patronizing I'll quote them and reply. I understand that I'm sticking my neck out a lot by doing this especially considering I do not presently consider myself a member of the community nor am I practicing in any way shape or form however, I do feel as though there are a substantial amount of misconceptions and questions people would have about this and am willing to clear some of those up with the mindset that I likely won't be able to change many mindsets but even if I can change one persons opinion I feel like I'll have done something. I lived in a home where both of my parents were absent for a substantial period of my youth as they both were working full time jobs in order to provide what they felt was their best for me as neither attended college until late in their lives they wanted to have money to be able to give me everything they didn't have. Especially considering both of them made a lot of "mistakes" in their 20's (of which I was one) that to this day they still do not discuss easily. Because of this I spent the majority of the time at my grandparents who effectively became my surrogate parents for the majority of my youth. This I believe led to a lot of unmet emotional needs and is the largest reason why I would say that I developed AB interests as a coping mechanism. My narrative is like most in the community, from an extremely early age the idea of identifying as a baby, loss of self/responsibility and receiving the care from a parent figure that I did not get otherwise (again BDSM parallels can be drawn here), I wasn't able to put those words to it obvious but in hindsight that's what it was. Again I want to make the demarcation that this has absolutely nothing to do with a sexual interest in children, only wanting to be a child, which is very different. Generally speaking almost all the material online at this point was fetish related, which led to a bit of confusion on my part as it was never sexual for me only a means of coping. Like most I reached a point where I realized "this is not normal, and other people think this is weird" around puberty, so I stopped my interests there. However, when I was in college I stumbled across a few forums that were not sexual in nature, and this was the first time I'd ever had my feelings validated in regards to AB as a non-sexual interest. To be honest the most extreme I ever got with paraphernalia was a pacifier and diaper just for the sake of getting into the headspace. For me it was about role plays that were never sexual but facilitated meeting my emotional needs I was not receiving at the time from my parents/peers (I was going through an extremely rough period with romantic relationships at the time). After sorting out the relationship issues I had, I no longer had a "need" for using AB as a coping mechanism and shelved it again. It didn't come up again until after a lot of pain it came up again in therapy recently, I explained what had happened the same as above, and my therapist was able to help me understand why it happened. For a brief period I revisited a few of the sites but, my therapist told me that other than just a brief familiarization with the material to bring back the feelings for the sake of therapy it is not a healthy way to deal with stress. Were it strictly a hobby or otherwise things may be different but, as it stands it would be akin to suggesting an alcoholic try out several different kinds of alcohol to see what would be most addicting for them. I came out to a few people during this time (it's odd coming out to someone about something you don't actively participate in). All but one was very understanding when it was explained in this light, and eventually she came around, she had just lived a very vanilla life and was extremely shocked because she'd never heard of anything like that before. I'm still friends with all of those people and none of them think less of me for it. That is a somewhat long answer to the inquiry of "how does one use AB/DL activities to cope". Hopefully it answered your question.
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Jun 16, 2015 13:12
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Vic posted:Are there any people with hypertrichosis in the community? No. There's a few albinos and a couple of black dudes with the skin condition that makes their skin piebald, but that's about it.
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Jun 16, 2015 13:22
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jiffypop45 posted:1. Infantalism (paraphilic or otherwise) is not in any way shape or form synonymous with pedophilia and the community as a whole goes to great lengths to make that distinction and do everything in their power to remove individuals who would be of that persuasion It is literally only the people who are within the Adult Baby community who don't think that it's as creepy as gently caress. You would HAVE to try to make that distinction a lot, because for gently caress's sake. Even furries shun you. Think about that.
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Jun 16, 2015 13:32
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What does paraphilic mean? Afraid to google that.
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Jun 16, 2015 13:40
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Kurtofan posted:What does paraphilic mean? Afraid to google that. It's roughly the medical term for a fetish.
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Jun 16, 2015 13:45
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I think part of the crossover between furries and baby-diaper fetishists is the reaction by outsiders is "No you're not." "I'm a lion". "No, you're not." "I'm a baby." "No, you're not." Most people don't 'roleplay' in their lives, and for those that do, it is mostly associated with sex, and the 'roles' they take on are believable ones, perhaps stretching the imagination a bit, but they are not ludicrously impossible. Furries can sort get away with it by saying they enjoy looking like a lion, and the above conversation about anthropomorphisation kinda shows they're not really 'acting' like animals--they're acting like furries. But the baby-diaper fetishists are putting on a self that is so obviously, and kind of pathetically, unreal that the overwhelming response is that it's both disgusting and just obviously untrue. Also 'queer' is very problematic if you just mean 'non-standard sexuality', and appropriating it like that blurs an important distinction: Queer people aren't queer as a coping mechanism or because it turns them on more than other stuff. It's intrinsic to them. I don't get how you're queer in the least, either, from your self-description, unless you mean you're queer because of the baby-diaper stuff, in which case you're using a sexual term for something you're claiming is non-sexual and shooting yourself in the foot.
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Jun 16, 2015 13:53
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Obdicut posted:I think part of the crossover between furries and baby-diaper fetishists is the reaction by outsiders is "No you're not." That's factually incorrect. Vast majority of people are in fact closer to a baby than to a lion, genetically speaking.
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Jun 16, 2015 13:56
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Vic posted:That's factually incorrect. Vast majority of people are in fact closer to a baby than to a lion, genetically speaking. You just brought phylogenetics to a babyfur fight.
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Jun 16, 2015 13:59
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Vic posted:That's factually incorrect. Vast majority of people are in fact closer to a baby than to a lion, genetically speaking. Congrats on still being the weirdest person in this thread. And no, it's not factually incorrect that they're not a baby. Jesus you're weird.
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Jun 16, 2015 14:02
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Maybe we're all the weird ones for posting in this thread, or even knowing of its existence :\
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Jun 16, 2015 14:16
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Hedrigall posted:Maybe we're all the weird ones for posting in this thread, or even knowing of its existence :\ He is our king.
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Jun 16, 2015 14:25
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Obdicut posted:I think part of the crossover between furries and baby-diaper fetishists is the reaction by outsiders is "No you're not." It was poor word choice in hindsight to suggest furries and ABDL's are strictly speaking queer. Though the label may apply to some who express their interests sexually (yiffy art, diaper fetishism), obviously I would say the most are not that way and apologize for misusing the word. When I use the word to describe myself I use it to mean that I do not identify with the typically masculine gender binary as I lean more feminine but do not identify as trans personally. Additionally my sexuality is a bit up in the air in the momment as I am presently going through a lot of self discovery of who I am. So while I would identify as queer you are correct that it is wrong to just apply it to someone with a non sexual/gender related interest that is out of the mainstream mold. I think you're projecting a bit, you seem to be saying that in your opinion because a lion is closer to a "person" which I believe is reinforced by the abundance of anthro art whereas there is not a comparable manifestation in ABDL that it is more "acceptable" or "normal" for you. It seems like a double standard.
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Jun 16, 2015 14:53
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