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After this most recent raise I don't think I'm that underpaid. It's my first job in the field I went to school for, and when I took it I was under some pressure to get into the field and not be homeless. I would still like to see an increase based on my development skill/ability/knowledge-wise, it just happens that the timing of my review lands in the same month that everyone kind of randomly got a raise that wasn't tied to performance.
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Jun 6, 2015 14:14
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C-Euro posted:FWIW my recruiter says he's "in my corner" and said he would talk to them and see where they might be flexible (such as a sign-on bonus), but he also confessed that he's representing this other candidate too so it's probably all the same to him. I'm in talks with a few other recruiters as well but this is my best shot at a job so far, so I'm trying to be as mindful as I can. I would not share my current/latest compensation with a recruiter. I would only share my target salary. The only reason a recruiter would need to know your current/latest compensation is to try to talk you down to a lower salary that you would otherwise take.
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Jun 6, 2015 14:17
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Just wanted to say thanks to all the people posting here offering advice. I can't reiterate enough for people here looking for advice how much working your rear end off and impressing people matters. It opens so many doors for you. About a month ago I got an accounting job locally and followed the advice here not to fold, but to wait and let the employer open negotiations. Assuming you meet the requirements of the job and have sufficient experience and recommendations to back that up, definitely stick to your guns and request a decent (but not exorbitant) compensation package. Which brings me to my dilemma. I just took the new job a month and a half ago. The location is perfect. The compensation is generous for the duties. There is growth potential to move up from senior accountant to accounting manager or possibly CFO some years down the line. All that being said, the company I am at now is much smaller than the company I left and the duties are quite different (and less challenging). At my prior position I was more of an IT/Accounting hybrid, managing our data warehouse and management reporting systems. My current position is just straight accounting. I have been contacted by a consultant I previously worked with about an opportunity making 20 to 30 percent more money and with a much more challenging set of projects to work on. It would be working more in the data warehousing / business intelligence area. I would have a 6 month "contract to hire" position. The location is half the country away from where I am now. I would not be working for this consultant but instead with them while developing reporting systems and then after the project is completed I would (possibly) be hired by the client to work long term. I am a bit worried that after 6 months I would be in the lurch looking for another job. My consultant contact has tried to reassure me that it would be my decision whether to stay at the position after 6 months or move on. I have an interview scheduled next week and hope to learn more concrete info. The skill set I would acquire at the prospective job would be much more valuable and probably more importantly fulfilling in the long term, but I would realistically never find a job using that skill set in my home town where I currently have a stable if unchallenging job. I have no immediate dependents or spouse tying me down, but do enjoy living near my family. Assuming the interview goes well, based on the limited info and bias I have presented here, should I just nut up and go for it?
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Jun 7, 2015 03:08
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Sounds like a risk worth taking. Better skill set to make significantly more money over your lifetime, contract to hire aint good, but ok accounting jobs can always be your fall back
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Jun 7, 2015 03:15
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ugly posted:I am a bit worried that after 6 months I would be in the lurch looking for another job. My consultant contact has tried to reassure me that it would be my decision whether to stay at the position after 6 months or move on. I have an interview scheduled next week and hope to learn more concrete info. This is bullshit. If it was your decision then they'd just hire you full time and not have the contract to hire. I would not give up a steady job for contract to hire without other compelling reasons beyond pay and work. Also you need to make sure that you'll actually be paid more post taxes if they classify you as a contractor.
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Jun 7, 2015 06:31
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Dik Hz posted:Your recruiter only gets paid if he places a candidate. So he has a perverse incentive to get you to accept as low a number as possible, because that makes the company more likely to hire you. Yeah that's what I thought after we met, and during the process I tried to frame it as "well this was my total compensation where I used to live/work, now I'm paying much more for living expenses and this new job would be a lot more responsibility, so I think my asking price is a reasonable increase". I'm just really concerned about the fact that (according to him) my initial asking price is the only thing keeping them from bringing me in for an interview. If they just hire the other guy without even bringing me in to make a case for why I'm worth the money, or without even trying to negotiate directly with me, then that's going to be really disappointing and make it hard for me to work with recruiters in the future (I've always had to fight recruiters on disclosing salary numbers to them, both my target as well as my last pay)
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Jun 7, 2015 20:24
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Chaotic Flame posted:So, I just had a second phone interview with the head of HR for a senior level position I'm interested in. I'm currently a regular analyst. I haven't disclosed my salary, but he mentioned the range for the position I'm interviewing for and it's slightly less than what I currently make. However, it didn't seem like it was a hard range. The first interview I had with the internal recruiter, she mentioned the position salary range was based upon an applicant's experience, background, etc. During this second interview the head of HR mentioned the range but said "around" the range. The head of HR and the internal recruiter have not had a chance to talk yet since the head of HR has been out traveling. I already have an in-person scheduled with the hiring managers for next week and the recruiter will be following up on this second phone interview I had early next week as well. Should I mention my concern then since I would expect an increase in salary to go from Analyst to Senior Associate and the related increase of responsibility and workload that would entail? If a range is thrown out there, how much wiggle room is there normally? You can talk money whenever you want, but the best time to talk money is after they make an offer and are mentally committed to hiring you. Try playing the game from a hiring manager's perspective: "I have to pick the best candidate from these N people. After sitting here not having the work that will make my company money done for months, I think Chaotic Flame is the best choice. I'll offer <lowball> and see if it's accepted." "Lol, no, try <lowball + enough to make it a raise>." "Well, Chaotic Flame is the best candidate and won't accept the lowball, but is still the best candidate..." The wiggle room is that you can always walk away from this job opportunity and find something that is better than both that opportunity and what you are presently doing. If they disclose a salary range the only piece of information from that you should synthesize is if your target number is so far misaligned from what they want to pay that you should just stop talking to them then and there. Beyond that it costs you very little to continue interviewing and eventually counteroffer. If you get to an offer letter with the wrong number that's fine, they like you best. That's awesome information to have! Tell them to get to the right number. If they don't, walk and keep looking.
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Jun 8, 2015 21:08
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:You can talk money whenever you want, but the best time to talk money is after they make an offer and are mentally committed to hiring you. Try playing the game from a hiring manager's perspective: Latro fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Jun 9, 2015 |
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Jun 9, 2015 18:35
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Latro posted:In the same train of thought, how should you negotiate when walking away is not an option for you when you have an offer? Case in point, I was let go from my old job (as part of a layoff) and started job-hunting while unemployed. I found new-company which is a very close fit to what I want in terms of culture and career growth - i.e. I really want to work there. I went through 3 stages of interviews and I told them that the reason for my job search is that I was part of a layoff. Apparently, I interviewed well, because the talent acquisition person told me that everyone liked me and gave me an offer of $LOW NUMBER which is about 20% pay cut from my old job. I never really committed to a range or named a number during my interviews, but I mentioned once that I liked $LOW Number and that I can be flexible (oops). The reason why I did that is that the opening for the job was night shift only (which was not doable for me) - I pushed very strongly on that and they made the position dayshift (i.e. regular hours). I couldn't compromise on hours, but at the time I felt like compromising on money to secure a job offer(probablty a very dumb idea). Now, looking at the offer on paper in front of me, I am not so sure. 20% less is not something that would break my budget and I can live with it, but I don't want to sell myself short. Benefits and everything else is at a level I am content with - but also at a level that is not really flexible (for example, PTO is a very generous amount, but the same for everyone regardless of seniority). In terms of how $LOWNUMBER compares to other people at the same prospective company company - looking at GlassDoor, this company has 5 other people with the same position and they have reported an average of $2k less than my offer of $LOWNUMBER - so my offer is pretty much smack on the average.Also, that is probably a good sample, because I learned that their team size is 27 people for that role total. At oldjob I am pretty sure that I was overpayed, but then again I have not shared anything about my old salary to the company I am interviewing with. Should I push at this point on base salary portion given I have an offer in writing? Walking away is not really an option for me because I don't really have other offers, but I am not sure to what extent they know or can guess that - I have mentioned to the talent acqiusition guy that I have other interviews scheduled (which I don't). Or am I being too greedy? In general, asking for a little more money is not very risky (say 5%). Still, since you have no other options if you try to stretch that 20% gap you are straight bluffing, to which you need to understand the answers to these (and other) questions: 1) Can I afford to stay unemployed? Can I survive unemployment long enough to find another job? 2) If I find another job, will that job be better paying? 3) Can I continue looking while employed at this place? 4) How long until the growth potential pays off so I get promoted, then I can jump ship to better pay? While this thread seems to emphasize more money, which is what everyone wants, it is really about making the best of the position you are in. It is about putting yourself in the best position now and in the future. Right now you are not in a strong position to get a pile of new money. You are in a position to make sure there are no gaps in your employment history and possibly grow into new roles that will get you paid later.
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Jun 9, 2015 19:41
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Thanks for this - I think those questions have definitely set me in the right direction. I will probably opt not to bluff, because even though I am not really pressed for cash right now, I feel that my prospects will be much better after working some time at the new place as opposed to what they are now. Plus, I want to minimize employment gaps. Even though I think that it is really unfair for job seekers to be discriminated against based on gaps.
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Jun 9, 2015 23:17
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Counterpoint: I pushed back hard on an offer last August, couldn't reach an agreement, and didn't find something until this April. However, what I found is a 6 month contract that will pay more than a year of pay at the previous offer, and I now have 3 different companies in discussions for something after this contract is up (or before, depending on terms). It really depends on your personal situation.
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Jun 10, 2015 00:31
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What do you all find are the most reliable resources/sites/whatever when determining your salary demands for a given position? Not to throw in the towel on trying to make more money, but I'm starting to wonder if the asking price I'm telling to recruiters is what's keeping me from landing any interviews right now. Should I just be opening salary.com every time someone comes to me with a job opening, jamming in the title of said opening while they're on the phone, and going from there?
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Jun 10, 2015 00:32
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C-Euro posted:What do you all find are the most reliable resources/sites/whatever when determining your salary demands for a given position? Not to throw in the towel on trying to make more money, but I'm starting to wonder if the asking price I'm telling to recruiters is what's keeping me from landing any interviews right now. Should I just be opening salary.com every time someone comes to me with a job opening, jamming in the title of said opening while they're on the phone, and going from there? Generally you can get a feel for the market from similar positions at Glassdoor, and job postings with salary ranges on them. Larger companies use salary reports from big HR firms, my company uses Radford to set our pay bands for positions. Salary.com, Payscale.com, they're probably somewhat close, but not as accurate as they could be. I would think you would have a pretty close idea of what the market is paying for your job, with the appropriate modifiers for public vs private, established vs. startup, etc.
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Jun 10, 2015 09:12
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I've read about half the thread, haven't seen this question yet. I'm currently in heavy job searching - web developer, 2-1/2 years experience, in the middle of Los Angeles, so there's lots of work out there. I have an in-person interview next Wednesday and four phone calls before then - two interviews, two talks with in-house recruiters. I'm unemployed right now, so I'm trying to get at least two offers to be in a better negotiating position. What's the best way to try to time that intentionally, if I don't know how quickly / slowly the companies move?
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Jun 10, 2015 23:38
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Got a couple of quick questions since I'm being optimistic about receiving an offer soon: I learned that this company does some hiring through recruitment agencies. I was referred by a current employee so I am not represented by anybody. How much should I factor this into any negotiations? Less important, but a commonly recurring theme on this company's Glassdoor page is that raises are pretty infrequent so it is best to push hard for higher pay up front. Should I just counter an offer with +15% or is there anything else to consider for this situation? edit: got word that they want to hire me! Waiting for the official offer now so this is a bit more pressing, particularly my first question. I don't know what sort of cut a recruiter normally takes so I'm not sure how to posture myself for having some of their cost savings trickle down to me. Teeter fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Jun 11, 2015 |
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Jun 11, 2015 05:42
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ThreeHams posted:I'm unemployed right now, so I'm trying to get at least two offers to be in a better negotiating position. What's the best way to try to time that intentionally, if I don't know how quickly / slowly the companies move? Your current unemployment leaves you in a less than ideal position to negotiate. What if you overplay your hand on both and end up with no offer? Get the best job you can right now, and use that to leverage your next position.
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Jun 11, 2015 13:09
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ThreeHams posted:I've read about half the thread, haven't seen this question yet. bolind posted:Your current unemployment leaves you in a less than ideal position to negotiate. What if you overplay your hand on both and end up with no offer? Get the best job you can right now, and use that to leverage your next position. Bolind's advice is sound and worth considering in the context of changing your goals to ones that are more secure and less risky. But to answer your question, you'd generally want to slow down your first offer, including to the point of stating that you have other interviews you are conducting that you want to conclude before making a final decision. Both delaying receiving the first offer, and delaying when you respond to it are good moves. Once you have any sort of response from a second party you need to move quickly. Keep in mind telling your first offering employer that you're looking elsewhere too might make them take their ball and go home. That's probably dodging a bullet.
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Jun 11, 2015 14:40
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:Bolind's advice is sound and worth considering in the context of changing your goals to ones that are more secure and less risky. How about if you're unemployed, and Job A makes you an offer while you're waiting to hear your results from an interview with Job B? With any luck I'll be in this position next week, do I tell Job A "I want to hear if I get an offer from Job B before signing on with you" or do I go straight into negotiations with Job A and worry about Job B later? E: FFFFFFFFFFF Surprise phonecall just now from someone at Job A (presumably HR) while the hiring manager is out of town, she said they're "interested" in me but wanted to know my salary expectations and then gave me a bunch of questions to answer about the benefits package at my last job. They're calling everyone they interviewed and saying the exact same things, right? I gave them a number that's a few thousand above the average salaries I've seen online, and the benefits at my last job were really good, but I kept asking "are you ready to make an offer" and they wouldn't say. C-Euro fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Jun 11, 2015 |
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Jun 11, 2015 16:17
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C-Euro posted:How about if you're unemployed, and Job A makes you an offer while you're waiting to hear your results from an interview with Job B? With any luck I'll be in this position next week, do I tell Job A "I want to hear if I get an offer from Job B before signing on with you" or do I go straight into negotiations with Job A and worry about Job B later? They might be calling everyone they interviewed; if they are then some of those people will be waiting a while to hear anything more. They might just be calling their first choice; in which case that's you, in which case you have some leverage. I personally would be up front with your own toe dragging as soon as receiving an earnest offer. If the offer was inadequate I'd respond saying both "Here is what I want to see if I am going to accept your offer." as well as "I am also presently interviewing with another employer and I am not prepared to accept your offer until I hear from them." This does a lot of things: - You're being trustworthy and negotiations from that point forward are conducted with you disclosing information that is actually relevant to their hiring process. You're kind of being a dick to negotiate up an offer to an acceptable level and then put the brakes on to hear from someone else. - It lets them know they have competition right out the gate and that they had either be willing to negotiate, or that they may need to walk. - There's the small chance that they respond with "What would it take to get you to accept without hearing from the other company." I anticipate I might get some disagreement on this advice though, because generally in negotiations information asymmetries are advantageous to the holder and you're giving away that advantage for no ensured gain.
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Jun 11, 2015 18:50
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C-Euro posted:How about if you're unemployed, and Job A makes you an offer while you're waiting to hear your results from an interview with Job B? With any luck I'll be in this position next week, do I tell Job A "I want to hear if I get an offer from Job B before signing on with you" or do I go straight into negotiations with Job A and worry about Job B later? Negotiation should begin with an offer from them. Anything before that is meaningless at best, and can hurt your negotiation position. Stalling and interviewing with Company B greatly improves your BATNA (best alternative to a negotiated agreement), which is the best way to improve your negotiation position. If they insist on getting an answer before you interview with Company B, it's another big red flag.
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Jun 13, 2015 14:39
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Double post, but with the number of success stories in this thread, I suspect we're well over the $1,000,000 level in gained total earnings for goons. Myself included. Thanks in part to the advice in here, I got a good raise recently. So, thanks guys. It'd be cool if someone with more free time went through and added up the success stories.
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Jun 13, 2015 14:52
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Dik Hz posted:I agree with Dwight Eisenhower mostly, but I also want to add that there's really no reason to discuss anything regarding compensation at your last job. Make vague statements about how you were satisfied and how you're looking forward to working with them. When they ask your salary expectations, say that you'd give consideration to any offer in line with the industry average for your area. You want to assure them that you're not going to ask for an unreasonably high salary, but at the same time you DO NOT want to give the first number. If they persist in asking for you to give the first number, it's a big red flag that they're trying to dick you over on salary. In that case, give them a number 20-25% over the industry average and tell them you're flexible if the benefits line up. Thanks, they did push me for a number first, that was the whole "what are your expectations?" vs. "are you making me an offer?" back-and-forth we had. That's why I suspect they're calling everyone with the same script to try and figure out who will be cheapest (which would really suck, as I already lost one interview because the other guy had a lower asking price even before interviewing). I did eventually cave and give them a target salary a few thousand above the industry average, but also mentioned that we could also include benefits in the conversation as the benefits at my last job were kick-rear end. They actually asked me a bunch of questions about my last job's benefits, hopefully when they see the answers they push some money into my potential salary to make up the difference instead of running for the hills (I had zero monthly costs for my health & dental plans, among other things) Also, before the interview the hiring manager said "we have decided to pursue candidates in the $X0k salary range", do you think that means $X0,000 - $X9,999 or just $X0,000? We're both going to be really sad if it's the latter.
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Jun 13, 2015 15:39
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:I anticipate I might get some disagreement on this advice though, because generally in negotiations information asymmetries are advantageous to the holder and you're giving away that advantage for no ensured gain. Personally, while I do believe in toe-dragging to get as many options as possible to beef up your BATNA, I don't necessarily feel you HAVE to disclose the specific things you are doing ("interviewing with other firms / negotiating a raise / any other stall tactic you are employing"), especially the more aggressive ones that pit their offer against others. Just be vague about "needing time to think and discuss with the family". Some people take it the wrong way when they find a candidate is playing the field vs. someone who is set on the position in question. Personal update: using tips and advice from this thread, I was able to raise the offer on the table by 15% in salary and double the equity. I ended up walking away, but still it was a success in my books as far as negotiations are concerned. Finally, I'm almost through a negotiation course on Coursera.com - https://www.coursera.org/learn/negotiation-skills/outline. It's excellent IMO, negotiation is such an underrated skill.
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Jun 13, 2015 18:10
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So I have been interviewing for a few positions in the UK even though I'm a U.S. citizen, and two of them have a decent chance of moving to the in-person interview stage. Here in the U.S. I know what to expect for salary/benefits for my background, but other than knowing that the base salary is generally lower in the UK I'm not sure how to find out what kind of offer would be fair (should we get to that level). It's also been difficult to figure out what is really need for an equivalent standard of living (Boston currently). Glassdoor for the UK branch of the company is rather sparse, is there somewhere else I can look? Are any of the cost of living estimate websites better than others?
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Jun 16, 2015 21:48
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Good news: I got a job offer!  From the company in my previous post.Bad news: the HR woman said there is "zero room for negotiation" on the offer, which is slightly under the industry average for this job title. However I'm also coming into it without the prerequisite work experience but with more education than they required. My big disadvantage is that I have no job and no other offers right now unless the interview I had on Monday gets back to me tomorrow with an offer, so no BATNA for me! During the interview the hiring manager did say they usually start a little low in pay but are "aggressive" with raises if they have a good employee on their hands, which doesn't help me right now but will hopefully help later on. In the end I'll almost certainly take this just to have a paycheck, but do I have any possible moves here? I was thinking I could ask for non-monetary perks; for example I'm getting married in a couple months and would love to have a couple extra vacation days for prep/hangover recovery. Or, I'm worried about having a job where I sit at a desk all day and having a desk where I could stand or sit would make me really happy. Or (best case), I have to pay a $5 toll every day on my way home from work, if the company could add part or all of that to my paycheck (and show them the math on that), then I could actually take home the $X/year they advertise. Do I have any sort of leg to stand on, or is it "you're unemployed and broke, just take the job"?
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Jun 16, 2015 22:20
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If you know when you're getting married (which you probably should...) why don't you say you have vacations scheduled around that time as a going-in position? Don't ask, tell, on that one.
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Jun 16, 2015 22:45
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Yeah it's pretty reasonable to say in advance that you've got pre-planned travel, and certainly it would be odd for an employer to say gently caress you to someone's wedding. On your batna, it's not nothing, it's the present value of some future job based on an expected job search period. That's obviously not as strong a position as a job or competing offer in hand but don't sell yourself short if you're actively in discussions with other parties and being successful getting interviews.
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Jun 17, 2015 03:20
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Kalenn Istarion posted:Yeah it's pretty reasonable to say in advance that you've got pre-planned travel, and certainly it would be odd for an employer to say gently caress you to someone's wedding. Well I've only had one other interview so far, and they were offering me a nearly identical pay rate  The only difference is exempt (the offer) vs non-exempt (the other guy), but the offered position is more a desk jockey role and I don't foresee much overtime there. I think the other position is also rigid on their potential salary offer since it's through an agency. I'm also broke enough where I wouldn't want to risk losing this offer, especially with only one other interview under my belt. There is one position I know of that's willing to pay quite a bit more, but that wouldn't start for another two weeks or so if I get it at all (I have yet to interview there) and sadly I just don't have that kind of time.
C-Euro fucked around with this message at 05:23 on Jun 17, 2015 |
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Jun 17, 2015 05:21
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That's all reasonable - in that kind of situation the discounted value of a future job is almost zero because of non-job issues so you have what you have. Good luck!
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Jun 17, 2015 05:49
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C-Euro posted:Good news: I got a job offer! You should still negotiate, you know that, right? They're going to say "we will pay you x" where x is like 50k when the job should pay 60k. Ask for the 60k. They're not going to rescind the offer. My strategy is always to negotiate the salary, but also give them some outs in terms of other things they can give you. Can they give you a signing bonus since you have no guarantees of "aggressive" raises? Can they give you an additional 2 weeks of vacation a year? Will they fund your HSA for you in your first year?
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Jun 17, 2015 14:25
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Speaking of unemployment..the company I worked for is closing down, and I was let go at the end of May. How bad am I screwed as far as negotiating position? I've got some interviews toward the end of the month for jobs that I'd applied to prior to being let go so my resume for them says '2012-present' for my dates worked, but anything I submit now will have and end date and I'll have to explain it and lose a ton of leverage.
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Jun 17, 2015 15:25
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No Butt Stuff posted:You should still negotiate, you know that, right? Yeah, I'm trying to write up something now. Is start date a useful bargaining chip? They don't want me to start until early next month, and I need to start earning a paycheck sooner than that. However they don't know that I need the money right away, so could I say "Pay me the $X that I want and I will get to work for you sooner than what you planned", or do HR folks not fall for that?
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Jun 17, 2015 16:05
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I'd offer to start sooner. Make it sound like you're doing them a favor as part of the negotiation. You don't want it to be something they feel like they are giving you. Is that half a paycheck going to be worth more than pulling a couple grand more a year out of them and vacation? How big is the company? Do they not want you to start because of cash flow or is it just that the project they have in mind for you to begin with isn't ready? I wouldn't itemize your negotiation for tolls and extra gas or whatever, I'd just say that you feel that a more fair number is $x given the capabilities you bring to the table. Again, them saying they give raises means nothing, because if they were going to pay you what you should be paid, they'd do it up front.
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Jun 17, 2015 16:54
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No Butt Stuff posted:I'd offer to start sooner. Make it sound like you're doing them a favor as part of the negotiation. You don't want it to be something they feel like they are giving you. Is that half a paycheck going to be worth more than pulling a couple grand more a year out of them and vacation? It wouldn't be half a paycheck, their original start date was July 6th and I'm offering to start this Monday so it would be two whole paychecks for me, so it's about equal to a reasonable sign-on bonus (and I would be able to start some of their benefits sooner). I also need a steady paycheck sooner because my fiancee and I have wedding bills to pay, and after our recent move we need a small loan to pay everything on-time so I need to demonstrate income for that application. I would guess they picked July 6th because it's the start of a new quarter, but again I would rather start sooner and they don't know that. How high of a counter-offer do you think is reasonable to consider? The number I'm countering with is about 9% higher than their initial offer and roughly $100 more per week, I figure anything higher than 10% is too brazen especially with no other employers making me offers yet (though I'm supposed to hear from one Friday morning, and this offer expires Friday at noon  ). And honestly, the number they gave me is $10k more per year than I was making at my last job, but I was way undervalued at my last job and everyone knew it, not to mention that I'm now paying twice as much on living expenses as before.E: In new post. C-Euro fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Jun 17, 2015 |
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Jun 17, 2015 17:21
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There's no hard and fast rule. 9% shouldn't make anyone flinch. You're going to tell it to HR lady, along with everything else you'd like, and she's going to go talk to the bosses and get back to you in a couple days. 20% without a demonstrable set of reasons may make them leary, but 9% is fine. Don't forget to ask for a small sign-on bonus if you feel this job is one that deserves one, regardless of their policies. E: Before I forget, because I always do for me. If you ask for additional vacation, make sure it's shown as "standard vacation amount + extra days" so it escalates at the 5 year mark or whenever. In my last role I grabbed an extra week, but had I stayed through 5 years, I would have still been at 3 weeks vacation instead of staying ahead of the curve, setting me back a little bit.
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Jun 17, 2015 17:31
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I was about to edit this into my last post, but this is the pitch I want to make to them, does it sound reasonable?quote:Dear [HR person], I'm trying to refer to HR when talking about what I'm giving up, and to refer to the company when talking about what I would get back. My feeling is that she'll be more receptive if she feels the benefits are directly to her, and the costs can be pushed onto some nebulous "other". Agree/disagree? Do I also want to talk about the vacation bump here? I feel like I'd be a dick if they agreed to the higher number and then I said "oh yeah I need a couple extra vacation days too" C-Euro fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Jun 17, 2015 |
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Jun 17, 2015 17:35
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GobiasIndustries posted:Speaking of unemployment..the company I worked for is closing down, and I was let go at the end of May. How bad am I screwed as far as negotiating position? I've got some interviews toward the end of the month for jobs that I'd applied to prior to being let go so my resume for them says '2012-present' for my dates worked, but anything I submit now will have and end date and I'll have to explain it and lose a ton of leverage. Being out of a job because your entire company shut down is not a black mark and is easy to explain. Don't sweat it. C-Euro posted:I was about to edit this into my last post, but this is the pitch I want to make to them, does it sound reasonable? That looks like a good letter to me.
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Jun 17, 2015 17:50
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C-Euro posted:I was about to edit this into my last post, but this is the pitch I want to make to them, does it sound reasonable? Good letter. If you want vacation it needs to be there though.
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Jun 17, 2015 18:09
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No Butt Stuff posted:Good letter. If you want vacation it needs to be there though. Kalenn Istarion posted:That looks like a good letter to me. That's good to hear, thanks. I added a bit about vacation and sent it her way, fingers crossed E: Welp, she already got back to me. She spoke to the hiring manager and they "can only" go an extra 2% above their initial offer (vs my 9% counter-offer), and they "don't do" signing bonuses. They said they could give me those vacation days ahead of schedule from my PTO allowance, but I'd have to pay them back if I hadn't actually earned those days by the time I left. They did also say I could start a week earlier but probably not much more due to the nature of their on-boarding paperwork, but that's still to my advantage (while the company thinks it's to theirs). I told her to re-write the offer with this new info and let me think about it some more; unless something big happens with another of my leads I will probably take this and give them a year or two prove how "aggressive" their raises really are. Do you think there's any wiggle room left? If I wait long enough, could they get nervous and offer a little more? Would I be viewed by the manager & HR as a pushover if I accepted the a pay scale below what I asked to receive? Their benefits are also on a delayed start, to participate in medical & dental I need to work 45 days, 401k plan is 90 days and company match on 401k is one year. If they can't give me any more money, how easy do you think it will be to shorten some of those benefits windows? Will I gain pushover status if I say "I want my benefits to kick in sooner", they say "no", and I say "OK fine I'll take your offer"? C-Euro fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Jun 17, 2015 |
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Jun 17, 2015 18:39
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So the director in my current group is moving to another group, within the same company. He and my direct manager pulled me into a room yesterday totally out of the blue to ask if I would be interested in taking a job in the director's new group, which would come with a promotion to Sr. Analyst. The director said he is trying to "poach" me for his new team (his words). My manager is supportive of my decision either way. I'm still learning more about the job and will be meeting the team and manager later today over lunch, but unless it looks crappy, I will probably take it since it's more money, sooner. I've worked with the team a little bit in my current role and they seem good to work with. I will also get to meet with the manager, my would-be co-workers, and the person in the job now to get their honest opinions on it. I really like the director and would like to continue working in his org. He is very relaxed, trusts his employees, and seriously advocates for us during annual reviews. He also seems to think I'm a high-potential rock star for who knows what reason, so I get the sense that staying in his org will be great for my career. My BATNA - If I stayed in my current job/group, I would probably get a promotion around the end of the year as promised, or would be given another job opportunity (with promotion) sometime before then, according to the director, but none of that is confirmed. The new job is a growth area for me in terms of experience, since I would be doing a few things I've never done before. Since this is all internal, the director already knows my salary history--he hired me a little less than a year ago. They have given me 2 raises since I was hired, 2% in April for standard COL, then another 5% in May for "increase in responsibility" (this raise was also totally out of the blue one day--they said they wanted to make sure I was well-positioned before being promoted, but I didn't realize the promotion would be so soon). I know my peers at the new job level (Sr. Analyst) make about $95K base on average. I currently make $80K base, after the 2 raises. Assuming the job, team, and direct manager seem good, I would accept the offer as long as I'm paid the same as my peers ($90K-95K base since I may be at the lower end of the range, as a new Sr. Analyst), but if I'd like to get more if I can. They aren't looking at anyone else internally. If I don't take the job, they will start recruiting externally, which will cost them around $20K and it would also take longer to fill the req. Should I ask for $100K base (a 26% raise) since the worst they can do is say no? Or is it ridiculous to ask for that much after getting a 7% raise in the past 2 months, knowing that a raise that high would put me slightly above my peers in the group? I'd be really happy with $95K but of course I'd be even happier with $100K. 
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Jun 17, 2015 19:10
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