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Wolfsheim posted:And while that may be slightly better for your head-canon, most (filthy casual) gamers want a voiced and somewhat defined character you can push in different directions, because then the game-world will actually react to this character. Since you're bringing me into this, yeah, I would like to see the world react to me a lot more. It just doesn't require a voiced protagonist to achieve that. If I get caught being a douchebag to people, I expect to be treated as such. I always felt like that was a missed opportunity with all the unique clothing in the game that people didn't react to anything but partial nudity. Naughty Nightwear/Sexy Sleepwear could elicit cat calls, certain Power Armors might warrant some hushed whispers. Stealth armor gets "can't be much of a ninja if I can see you".
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Jun 18, 2015 17:34
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SunAndSpring posted:Still dunno why there's only 4 options to pick in dialogue. Was it that hard for console players to go up and down a menu with complete sentences on it? It wasn't when I played the Xbox version of it. I think its a holdover from 2005 when they had to develop the interface to be readable on a 36" screen at 480p from 10 feet away. The original FO3 dialogue menu had only 3 lines of space, so there probably was a big push to keep the number of responses low to keep from confusing people who don't know what a scroll bar is.
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Jun 18, 2015 17:42
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See this wouldn't be a problem if the dog was the player character. You'd just choose between bark, growl, and whine.
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Jun 18, 2015 17:43
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Another page full of the same tired old whining from the same tired old people about minutiae which won't affect gameplay in any major way. God i hope they release more information soon so at least people can whine about something new for a change.
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Jun 18, 2015 17:49
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khy posted:Another page full of the same tired old whining from the same tired old people about minutiae which won't affect gameplay in any major way. Well, limiting the dialogue is kind of a big deal, at least from the role-playing perspective. One of the things I really liked in New Vegas was conversations with important characters like House, Caesar, and Joshua Graham. You had a lot of stuff to ask them and talk about, and you had the freedom to talk about whatever you want. Conversation in this will probably be pretty linear, much like how Mass Effect handled it. You may stop to ask a question here and there, but you can't choose where you want to go. It would be like talking to House, and instead of being able to ask him about anything you want to talk about, you get: A: DO AS HE SAYS. X: ASK FOR MONEY. B: NO MORE. Y: WHO ARE YOU? Anyway, here's the 2nd of that thing by Twenty Sided, discussing how dumb Megaton and Dad are in Fallout 3. http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=27091#more-27091
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Jun 18, 2015 18:00
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khy posted:Another page full of the same tired old whining from the same tired old people about minutiae which won't affect gameplay in any major way. I like that they plan on adapting to quests having failure states that continue on in their own path so you don't need to reload. I wonder how far that will go, like if it just means even on a basic quest line theres an opposite outcome with its own set of rewards.
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Jun 18, 2015 18:01
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SunAndSpring posted:Anyway, here's the 2nd of that thing by Twenty Sided, discussing how dumb Megaton and Dad are in Fallout 3. Jesus, like I know that Fallout 3 plot had many problems (not that it detracted my own enjoyment of this game), but I think this dude cares a bit too much about a successful game from 7 years ago. What is he trying to prove exactly?
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Jun 18, 2015 18:04
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frajaq posted:Jesus, like I know that Fallout 3 plot had many problems (not that it detracted my own enjoyment of this game), but I think this dude cares a bit too much about a successful game from 7 years ago. What is he trying to prove exactly? Just that the story isn't good, which is a valid argument, but also one I don't care about at all because even in rpgs I care more about the core gameplay.
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Jun 18, 2015 18:06
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frajaq posted:Jesus, like I know that Fallout 3 plot had many problems (not that it detracted my own enjoyment of this game), but I think this dude cares a bit too much about a successful game from 7 years ago. What is he trying to prove exactly? I dunno, maybe he's hoping that Bethesda will look at it and reevaluate things? Honestly, he should probably be doing this examination poo poo for Fallout 4, where it would actually matter if someone from Bethesda saw it. He even admits he made all these arguments in his Let's Play of the game years ago, so it's really redundant.
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Jun 18, 2015 18:09
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SunAndSpring posted:I dunno, maybe he's hoping that Bethesda will look at it and reevaluate things? Honestly, he should probably be doing this examination poo poo for Fallout 4, where it would actually matter if someone from Bethesda saw it. He even admits he made all these arguments in his Let's Play of the game years ago, so it's really redundant. How do you examine a game that's not out yet.
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Jun 18, 2015 18:11
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If you closely examine this screenshot, you can see that this Deathclaw has entirely too many spikes, ruining the players immersion and agency to roleplay in the fallout universe.
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Jun 18, 2015 18:12
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Sharkopath posted:How do you examine a game that's not out yet. There's enough poo poo to write at least one article about it. He could write about the dialogue wheel, the voiced protagonist, the new gameplay mechanics, whatever. I mean, no one from mainstream magazines and sites are gonna critique the game, so someone has to.
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Jun 18, 2015 18:14
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SunAndSpring posted:There's enough poo poo to write at least one article about it. He could write about the dialogue wheel, the voiced protagonist, the new gameplay mechanics, whatever. I mean, no one from mainstream magazines are gonna critique the game, so someone has to. None of which is fully understood or seen except in a few very short media releases and a private exhibition, that's nonsense!
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Jun 18, 2015 18:15
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Did that guy actually speak to Manya Vargas? She's an NPC that gives the history of Megaton, they built around the crater to protect against radstorms when they were a thing, and they would've tried to move the bomb but the Cult of Atom wouldn't help them build the settlement anymore
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Jun 18, 2015 18:20
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SunAndSpring posted:Well, limiting the dialogue is kind of a big deal, at least from the role-playing perspective. One of the things I really liked in New Vegas was conversations with important characters like House, Caesar, and Joshua Graham. You had a lot of stuff to ask them and talk about, and you had the freedom to talk about whatever you want. Conversation in this will probably be pretty linear, much like how Mass Effect handled it. You may stop to ask a question here and there, but you can't choose where you want to go. It would be like talking to House, and instead of being able to ask him about anything you want to talk about, you get: There's been nothing released that states that they won't have nested dialogue options that allow you to expand the four replies into more. Fallout 3, New Vegas, and Skyrim all had dialogue trees where one response leads to more options to choose from. What exactly is the reason you don't think that Fallout 4 will have dialog trees? Where one response leads to 4 new choices, and certain conversation options may be locked out when you choose others? It was like that in FNV, it was like that in Skyrim, I have seen absolutely nothing anywhere stating that conversation and dialog trees have been removed. Limiting it to only 4 choices at each branch of the tree, yes, but nothing at all stating that you won't have just as many choices as before. In your example, how is that different than the house dialog we get already? We're limited in what questions we can ask him based on the menu we get. Literally the only difference I see is that with the new structure the menu only has 4 options so they'll have to rearrange the dialog trees to accomodate.
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Jun 18, 2015 18:22
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khy posted:There's been nothing released that states that they won't have nested dialogue options that allow you to expand the four replies into more. Fallout 3, New Vegas, and Skyrim all had dialogue trees where one response leads to more options to choose from. What exactly is the reason you don't think that Fallout 4 will have dialog trees? Where one response leads to 4 new choices, and certain conversation options may be locked out when you choose others? It was like that in FNV, it was like that in Skyrim, I have seen absolutely nothing anywhere stating that conversation and dialog trees have been removed. The reason is that bethesda is making the game and it has to be bad because of that.
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Jun 18, 2015 18:22
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quote:Fallout 4 has a full weather system that sends radiation storms across the world. Fury Road full conversion confirmed.
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Jun 18, 2015 18:23
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SunAndSpring posted:There's enough poo poo to write at least one article about it. He could write about the dialogue wheel, the voiced protagonist, the new gameplay mechanics, whatever. I mean, no one from mainstream magazines and sites are gonna critique the game, so someone has to. Games journalists are bad, so instead of that we should have some lets play dork write a guesswork filled article about a game he hasn't even played.
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Jun 18, 2015 18:24
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khy posted:There's been nothing released that states that they won't have nested dialogue options that allow you to expand the four replies into more. Fallout 3, New Vegas, and Skyrim all had dialogue trees where one response leads to more options to choose from. What exactly is the reason you don't think that Fallout 4 will have dialog trees? Where one response leads to 4 new choices, and certain conversation options may be locked out when you choose others? It was like that in FNV, it was like that in Skyrim, I have seen absolutely nothing anywhere stating that conversation and dialog trees have been removed. The only thing that bothers me is that now we're going to get short summaries of the response rather than a full write up. I didn't see anything wrong with the old dialogue interface, and about the first description I see that doesn't accurately reflect what the character says is going to frustrate the hell out of me.
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Jun 18, 2015 18:26
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SunAndSpring posted:Well, limiting the dialogue is kind of a big deal, at least from the role-playing perspective. One of the things I really liked in New Vegas was conversations with important characters like House, Caesar, and Joshua Graham. You had a lot of stuff to ask them and talk about, and you had the freedom to talk about whatever you want. Conversation in this will probably be pretty linear, much like how Mass Effect handled it. You may stop to ask a question here and there, but you can't choose where you want to go. It would be like talking to House, and instead of being able to ask him about anything you want to talk about, you get: You can do the same thing they did in Mass effect. Left option: Tell me about... then you can ask about things. It's overall bad UI design to give a hoard of long text anyway, even in NW you would have to choose from 4-5 options.
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Jun 18, 2015 18:27
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Nevets posted:The homebuilding feature is going to have so many mods. Think of all the playerhome mods for FO3/FNV/Skyrim and the build your own towns mods like Helgen reborn & Wasteland/Tundra Defense. All those modders are now going to be working on enhancing the new built in features instead of trying to MacGuyver them in with chewing gum and shoelaces. I'm unironically super excited for this one feature. SunAndSpring posted:There's enough poo poo to write at least one article about it. He could write about the dialogue wheel, the voiced protagonist, the new gameplay mechanics, whatever. I mean, no one from mainstream magazines and sites are gonna critique the game, so someone has to. No one is doing it but angry forums people because reasonable people know you can't know what is in the game and how it plays until it actually comes out. "The dialogue wheel" like let's not pretend that NV had some laundry list of dialogue choices to pick from every conversation. 95% of the time '4 choices' is usually what you get anyway regardless of how they are arranged. And also, nested dialogue exists. Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Jun 18, 2015 |
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Jun 18, 2015 18:28
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SunAndSpring posted:Still dunno why there's only 4 options to pick in dialogue. Was it that hard for console players to go up and down a menu with complete sentences on it? It wasn't when I played the Xbox version of it. I honestly think it's a bit of a pain in Skyrim (although it's more about the controls for it feeling counter-intuitive), and the few times when five choices are offered, one of them seems pretty superfluous most of the time (or else it's from a long list questions you can ask a character who's an exposition magnet, which is a crutch that games need to stop leaning on). My preference would still be for a lit of dialogue options spelled out, but I kind of wonder how much of that is my old-man yearning for every game to allow conversation like Star Control II, and whether this is just the future of games. Moridin920 posted:I'm unironically super excited for this one feature. That and also crafting weapons and armor.
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Jun 18, 2015 18:32
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SunAndSpring posted:Still dunno why there's only 4 options to pick in dialogue. Was it that hard for console players to go up and down a menu with complete sentences on it? It wasn't when I played the Xbox version of it. afaik according to the interview doritopope did with the todd it's because conversations are now no longer a seperate 'mode' but rather a way of 'activating' npcs. so when you put the crosshair over an NPC the face buttons change to the four dialogue options. presumably the camera angle switching occurs if you're in third person. why this particularly needed to be in the game i have no idea but apparently you can talk to two people at once now for what it's worth
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Jun 18, 2015 18:34
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Lotish posted:Fury Road full conversion confirmed. quote:but Howard says they aren't doing cars or anything as well. Boner-kill
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Jun 18, 2015 18:36
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Generic Monk posted:afaik according to the interview doritopope did with the todd it's because conversations are now no longer a seperate 'mode' but rather a way of 'activating' npcs. so when you put the crosshair over an NPC the face buttons change to the four dialogue options. presumably the camera angle switching occurs if you're in third person. why this particularly needed to be in the game i have no idea but apparently you can talk to two people at once now for what it's worth The purpose was so that you could just walk away from any npc or shoot them in the face the second they say something you don't like instead of having to wait for the dialogue menu to close. Which is pretty cool and will make kill everyone runs a lot of fun.
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Jun 18, 2015 18:38
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Volkerball posted:The only thing that bothers me is that now we're going to get short summaries of the response rather than a full write up. I didn't see anything wrong with the old dialogue interface, and about the first description I see that doesn't accurately reflect what the character says is going to frustrate the hell out of me. That is a valid complaint, which will likely be addressed via mods, but I suspect it's because a single statement will lead into more Mass-Effect style. With the previous dialog system you would have to create a menu for EVERY SINGLE PLAYER REPONSE. With this, they can condense it. Say, for example, you visit the town of 'Prumm' and speak to a resident. You ask the resident to tell you about the town. In NV, you would have the following menu dialog pop up automatically quote:Tell me where to stay the night. With a voiced protagonist they could condense it down to just 'Tell me about local services' and he could ask about the first four options in sequence. It WOULD mean more 'press a to skip dialog' moments and since everyone who comes here seems to be into hardcore roleplaying I'm assuming they never skip dialog ever because it breaks their immersion, so there's probably going to be many more complaints about that.
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Jun 18, 2015 18:38
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I don't trust Bethesda to do cars, not without it exploding after brushing against some random debris and soaring it through the skies
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Jun 18, 2015 18:38
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Filthy Casual posted:Since you're bringing me into this, yeah, I would like to see the world react to me a lot more. It just doesn't require a voiced protagonist to achieve that. If I get caught being a douchebag to people, I expect to be treated as such. I always felt like that was a missed opportunity with all the unique clothing in the game that people didn't react to anything but partial nudity. Naughty Nightwear/Sexy Sleepwear could elicit cat calls, certain Power Armors might warrant some hushed whispers. Stealth armor gets "can't be much of a ninja if I can see you". That actually bugs me a bit in skyrim. Guards are way too eager to pass a comment on what you're wearing, what skills you have trained in, what weapons you have at the ready. Alright, I get it
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Jun 18, 2015 18:40
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frajaq posted:I don't trust Bethesda to do cars, not without it exploding after brushing against some random debris and soaring it through the skies That just makes me more upset they aren't doing it.
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Jun 18, 2015 18:41
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Just bring in Skyrim horses and reskin them as motorcycles.
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Jun 18, 2015 18:42
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Sharkopath posted:That just makes me more upset they aren't doing it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4UZBwp7nTk
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Jun 18, 2015 18:42
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It's pretty neat you get to play a lady that has/had a kid in this video game. Can't think of many others that let you do that. Hell, it even does the rare thing where it's the husband and baby that dies to fuel the protagonist's problems. Every other piece of fiction ever it's usually some handsome man crying over his dead (wife/mom/gf), I think this is much cooler and more unique a thing to see in video games than yet another "Check this box to be gay and maybe 12 lines of dialogue will change to reflect that in this 100 hour rpg" game. I hope the writing is at least like the more enjoyable parts of FO3.
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Jun 18, 2015 18:45
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frajaq posted:I don't trust Bethesda to do cars, not without it exploding after brushing against some random debris and soaring it through the skies That would be half the fun though. Also - car armour. But yeah they would have to revamp how cars worked and also build a much flatter and more open game world so that it actually seeved a purpose. I get the sense that your suit if power armour is supposed to be your actual ride (and the vertibird I guess). It remains to be seen if you can have more than I suit at a time though. I'm sure you can buy more engine cranes or w/e but we have only seen 1 so far.
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Jun 18, 2015 18:45
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I can't imagine playing any game without skipping dialogue a lot of the time (they read so slowly!), particularly in Bethesda games where a lot of the fun is loving around with a few character builds and therefore encountering the same questlines a couple of times. I hope NPC Ned Ryerson walks up to me and addresses me by name, I can shove him into a puddle and then punch him in the face.
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Jun 18, 2015 18:46
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nuzak posted:That actually bugs me a bit in skyrim. Guards are way too eager to pass a comment on what you're wearing, what skills you have trained in, what weapons you have at the ready. Alright, I get it Everyone was a little too chatty in Skyrim. There's a fine line to walk between having people ignore you and feeling like everyone in the game is built around you specifically and they did a bit too much of the later.
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Jun 18, 2015 18:47
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nuzak posted:That actually bugs me a bit in skyrim. Guards are way too eager to pass a comment on what you're wearing, what skills you have trained in, what weapons you have at the ready. Alright, I get it The one that drives me nuts is the "I need you to stop that... shouting!" sequence, because it's like, really cool and immerses you in the world the first time that it happens, but then it keeps happening every single time that you shout in any town, and it makes you want to build and archer and shoot out the knees of every guard in the game. I like the goofy "You're a sneaky looking sort!" ones, though. graynull posted:Everyone was a little too chatty in Skyrim. There's a fine line to walk between having people ignore you and feeling like everyone in the game is built around you specifically and they did a bit too much of the later. Yeah. I have to murder the "Have you tried mercenary work? It might suit you," guy in most runs now, because he wants to ask you that question so much that sometimes he wanders into your loving house to finish the question.
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Jun 18, 2015 18:51
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At least in Skyrim/New Vegas they stopped people accusing you of being a thief for looking at their items.
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Jun 18, 2015 18:57
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I hope they include a huge variety for the "Uhhh, are you trying to be sneaky? Because I can see you..." variety, those always make me laugh.
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Jun 18, 2015 19:00
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Bicyclops posted:The one that drives me nuts is the "I need you to stop that... shouting!" sequence, because it's like, really cool and immerses you in the world the first time that it happens, but then it keeps happening every single time that you shout in any town, and it makes you want to build and archer and shoot out the knees of every guard in the game. I like the goofy "You're a sneaky looking sort!" ones, though. "Hey conjuror, how's about conjuring me up some food?"... after putting a single point into conjuring and summoning a single atronach.
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Jun 18, 2015 19:03
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If the guitar flamethrower from Fury Road is in Fallout 4 as a usable weapon then I will take back everything negative I've ever said. Also I know Todd Howard is a known liar but didn't he say you could walk away or even attack people during conversations in the demonstration? So you technically have 6 options during dialogue.
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Jun 18, 2015 19:05
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