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ActusRhesus posted:You didn't answer my question. If he didn't do anything that could be misinterpreted as reaching for a weapon, it's not really a valid comparison, is it? If you're black there are way, way more things that can be misinterpreted as reaching for a weapon due to systemic racism. ActusRhesus posted:Well it certainly undercuts the "shot while fleeing" argument. No, the guy was still trying to get away, he was walking backwards away from the cops.
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Jun 19, 2015 18:15
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Cliven Bundy's personal militia aimed firearms at police and were not shot immediately or, hell even arrested to this day.
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Jun 19, 2015 18:16
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ActusRhesus posted:Well it certainly undercuts the "shot while fleeing" argument. Right, it also tells us he wasn't shot while juggling AKs, good thing we cleared that up.
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Jun 19, 2015 18:16
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Talmonis posted:Cliven Bundy's personal militia aimed firearms at police and were not shot immediately or, hell even arrested to this day. And THAT is a valid complaint. gently caress that guy.
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Jun 19, 2015 18:17
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ElCondemn posted:Correction: he was shot in the front for pulling up his pants. Lol he wasn't shot for pulling up his pants, and it's pretty pathetic that you're now trying to call being shot in the back vs getting shot in the front a pedantic difference. At least we've moved past the first narrative this thread put out, which was the police shot him in the back for wearing headphones and not hearing them.
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Jun 19, 2015 18:19
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ActusRhesus posted:You didn't answer my question. If he didn't do anything that could be misinterpreted as reaching for a weapon, it's not really a valid comparison, is it? Not every situation is going to be identical so asking for a perfectly matching situation is both absurd and pointless A fresh orange is better than a rotten apple. Oh dear, I've violated ActusRhesus's rules for comparisons! An officer murdered his ex wife in front of fellow officers. Not only was he brandishing a gun on main street following his first round of shooting, but fired several more rounds over 15 seconds while other officers stood by watching and doing nothing. The officers on the scene were not afraid of him. This guy murders nine black people and officers apprehend him without violence because they weren't afraid of him. They knew he was on Team White. 12 year old black boy playing in the park? You have 0 seconds to comply.
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Jun 19, 2015 18:21
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ActusRhesus posted:And THAT is a valid complaint. gently caress that guy. Wow good thing we've got you here to let us know which complaints about the hosed up US system of justice are valid.
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Jun 19, 2015 18:21
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ActusRhesus posted:And THAT is a valid complaint. gently caress that guy. Right, it's more disturbing that we let a militia "stand their ground" than it is to let a man kill his wife, hold his child hostage, then shoot his dying wife again without any reaction from surrounding officers.
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Jun 19, 2015 18:21
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He could have tap danced up and kicked one of them in the balls for all I care. It still shouldn't equal an execution.
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Jun 19, 2015 18:22
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Jarmak posted:Lol he wasn't shot for pulling up his pants, and it's pretty pathetic that you're now trying to call being shot in the back vs getting shot in the front a pedantic difference. I haven't moved past anything, I just haven't said anything about it because you guys are sociopaths. You can see the same video I do and come up with a totally different interpretation, it's not possible to make you see how hosed up your worldview is. You have literally created a logic loop in your mind where police are incapable of doing anything wrong, because the "intent of the officer" is an excuse to you and apparently to our justice system.
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Jun 19, 2015 18:23
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DrNutt posted:Wow good thing we've got you here to let us know which complaints about the hosed up US system of justice are valid. No. Just what comparisons are valid.
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Jun 19, 2015 18:24
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ElCondemn posted:Right, it's more disturbing that we let a militia "stand their ground" than it is to let a man kill his wife, hold his child hostage, then shoot his dying wife again without any reaction from surrounding officers. Where did I say that?
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Jun 19, 2015 18:25
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ElCondemn posted:Right, it's more disturbing that we let a militia "stand their ground" than it is to let a man kill his wife, hold his child hostage, then shoot his dying wife again without any reaction from surrounding officers. Yes, one situation is poor decision making as a result of an understandable but unacceptable human reaction. Those cops should be fired but it isn't an example of anything but humans letting emotions and familiarity cloud their judgement. The other is a cool calculated policy decision allow a bunch of racist militia hicks to ignore the law because it was politically uncomfortable to enforce it. Ironically the latter is actually what people in this thread repeatedly endorse with their " man if the suspect doesn't want to be arrested they should just let him go" crap.
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Jun 19, 2015 18:31
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ActusRhesus posted:Where did I say that? I said it, you just quoted me. I think it's more hosed up what happened with this killer cop than what's going on with some militia in nevada.
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Jun 19, 2015 18:31
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Jarmak posted:Yes, one situation is poor decision making as a result of an understandable but unacceptable human reaction. Those cops should be fired but it isn't an example of anything but humans letting emotions and familiarity cloud their judgement. Poor police, so emotional and cloudy, guess we can't blame them for being terrible at the one job they're supposed to do. Jarmak posted:The other is a cool calculated policy decision allow a bunch of racist militia hicks to ignore the law because it was politically uncomfortable to enforce it. I don't really know anything other than there was some standoff with a militia over some unpaid bills. I'm totally cool with police not going in and murdering people for not paying their bills, you're right, that is what I would prefer.
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Jun 19, 2015 18:34
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Jarmak posted:Ironically the latter is actually what people in this thread repeatedly endorse with their " man if the suspect doesn't want to be arrested they should just let him go" crap. Very seldom are the people who cops brutalize in the process of arrest as dangerous as that wife-murdering cop.
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Jun 19, 2015 18:38
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SedanChair posted:Very seldom are the people who cops brutalize in the process of arrest as dangerous as that wife-murdering cop. They're more dangerous apparently, because they have hidden weapons in every shadow, the element of surprise is what separates wife-murderers and trained assassins.
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Jun 19, 2015 18:41
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ActusRhesus posted:You are aware the governor had already gone on record urging the death penalty, right? I'm not exactly sure what that has to do with my post.
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Jun 19, 2015 18:45
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Jarmak posted:Ironically the latter is actually what people in this thread repeatedly endorse with their " man if the suspect doesn't want to be arrested they should just let him go" crap. Ah yes, that thing nobody has said. Of course, the actual suggestion--that cops should have partners and backup available, and that if they're alone with an unarmed suspect who isn't an imminent public threat they should call for backup rather than getting into a dangerous and potentially lethal physical confrontation--would actually protect the health and lives of cops.....buuuuut whatever then you wouldn't get to jerk off to how dumb a dead teenager is so gently caress it let's keep on with inadequate manpower and training.
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Jun 19, 2015 18:45
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That weapon's not hidden! I can see where it is! *Weapon fires bullets into woman* I can still see it! Move along citizens this situation is tactically sound.
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Jun 19, 2015 18:46
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ElCondemn posted:I don't really know anything other than there was some standoff with a militia over some unpaid bills. I'm totally cool with police not going in and murdering people for not paying their bills, you're right, that is what I would prefer. Out of curiosity do even have an internally consistent definition of the word murder or do you just pull it whenever you think it makes your argument sound better.
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Jun 19, 2015 18:47
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Well, at least the motion of pointing a gun straight at your ex-wife and pulling the trigger a few times is blatant, and not threateningly furtive
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Jun 19, 2015 18:47
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Jarmak posted:Out of curiosity do even have an internally consistent definition of the word murder or do you just pull it whenever you think it makes your argument sound better. In our current system, with our current lack of oversight, there is every reason to assume that every death caused by police is murder.
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Jun 19, 2015 18:50
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VitalSigns posted:Ah yes, that thing nobody has said. Of course, the actual suggestion--that cops should have partners and backup available, and that if they're alone with an unarmed suspect who isn't an imminent public threat they should call for backup rather than getting into a dangerous and potentially lethal physical confrontation--would actually protect the health and lives of cops.....buuuuut whatever then you wouldn't get to jerk off to how dumb a dead teenager is so gently caress it let's keep on with inadequate manpower and training. Uh so did you not read the argument over whether that cop should have let him go and just put out a warrant? Besides that arguments which have this exact logical conclusion have been a repeated theme in this thread beyond just these two latest topics of conversation.
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Jun 19, 2015 18:52
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Yes, it would have been better to let the kid flee the scene of a minor traffic stop rather than gun him down right there. Obviously. Not only would the kid be alive if the officer had waited for backup, but the officer wouldn't have gotten his face bashed in and wouldn't have to live with the trauma of killing someone! It's really telling that you oppose even procedures and training and support that would result in less hurt cops if it means we get to enjoy fewer dead punk kids.
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Jun 19, 2015 19:02
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If you let him go and issued a ticket to the owner of the car he might have flashed his lights at another motorist. 
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Jun 19, 2015 19:04
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Radish posted:If you let him go and issued a ticket to the owner of the car he might have flashed his lights at another motorist. Better to murder him than to let the menace go free. It's a slippery slope, let a 17 year old kid go free, next thing you know you're letting mass murderers with trunks full of dead hookers just do whatever they want.
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Jun 19, 2015 19:07
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Yeah cause the cop shot him to prevent him from getting away, not to stop the assault. 
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Jun 19, 2015 19:11
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Jarmak posted:Yeah cause the cop shot him to prevent him from getting away, not to stop the assault. Or just shot him. I'd blanch at saying that a cop had a reason for killing other than the desire to kill, at this point.
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Jun 19, 2015 19:12
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Jarmak posted:Yeah cause the cop shot him to prevent him from getting away, not to stop the assault. Well he certainly didn't murder him for no reason, because that's the only reason a cop would ever be guilty of anything. If they're asked "why did you kill him" and they answer "I don't know" feel free to throw the book at em, right?
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Jun 19, 2015 19:16
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Man non-police sure are dumb. They keep randomly assaulting cops that are not only better armed than them and they themselves have no weapons at all, but the police are also backed by the justice system and it's public knowledge that they have lethal authority over the rest of us. You'd think they'd learn not to try and beat up a cop for literally no reason. It just keeps happening!
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Jun 19, 2015 19:20
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Question: Do you think justice and policing is broken in America. If Yes, loving fix it. If No, what the hell is wrong with you. At what point do you consider the system as to have failed? 1000 people dead? 10000? another 100000 scarred and crippled every year? How many people locked into abject poverty? How many daily examples of people getting gunned down, abused, left unprotected till you had you fill of suffering? When does it become a force of oppression for you? Where is the line you draw where you consider things to be "hosed up"?.
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Jun 19, 2015 19:21
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Jarmak posted:Yeah cause the cop shot him to prevent him from getting away, not to stop the assault. And if you were interested in actually discussing this, you'd address the point I made about how officers shouldn't be expected to bring in suspects alone, and how the training should emphasize public safety and how there's no reason to get in a physical confrontation with an unarmed kid who's not an imminent threat, or the fact that the cop created the violent situation by using up his taser to torture a nonviolently resisting subject but hosed it up and only panicked and enraged the kid with electric pain without incapacitating him, leaving the officer without his nonlethal option. But of course, you will ignore those points, once again, and disappear for a few pages only to pop back in and say something asinine about how libtards want to bad cops from making any arrests ever, won't you.
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Jun 19, 2015 19:23
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oohhboy posted:Question: Do you think justice and policing is broken in America. I think you'll find that every single one of those 1000, 10,000 or 100,000 people were either jailed, convicted or slain based on our current laws. I cannot question them because then I will not be invited to the poker game.
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Jun 19, 2015 19:23
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oohhboy posted:Question: Do you think justice and policing is broken in America. Circles and circles. They're going to say they do think there needs to be reform, just at a grander scale though. That way it seems like they agree there is a problem but they can feel free to justify individual cases as only apologists can do.
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Jun 19, 2015 19:25
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VitalSigns posted:Of course, the actual suggestion--that cops should have partners and backup available, and that if they're alone with an unarmed suspect who isn't an imminent public threat they should call for backup rather than getting into a dangerous and potentially lethal physical confrontation Did you miss the part where the officer did exactly that? He called for backup as soon as it went from being a routine traffic stop to something where he might have to arrest someone.
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Jun 19, 2015 19:55
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VitalSigns posted:And if you were interested in actually discussing this, you'd address the point I made about how officers shouldn't be expected to bring in suspects alone, and how the training should emphasize public safety and how there's no reason to get in a physical confrontation with an unarmed kid who's not an imminent threat, or the fact that the cop created the violent situation by using up his taser to torture a nonviolently resisting subject but hosed it up and only panicked and enraged the kid with electric pain without incapacitating him, leaving the officer without his nonlethal option. I'm sorry I never stopped to address your point about how the kid pinned the officer to the ground and beat the poo poo out of him only because he was driven mad with electric rage when the tazer only half connected, I thought I'd just let that idiocy stand on its own lack of merit. I don't generally agree with the way cops like to use tazers as compliance tools, but with the way this guy warned the kid about a million times that he was going to taze him if he didn't stop resisting this is about the least egregious example of that I've seen to date, particularly in light of the fact he was alone . Either way, Monday morning quarterbacking every detail of the way the cop conducted the stop and effected the arrest to find minor mistakes that enabled the assault does not take responsibility for the assault away from the kid. Nor does it change the fact that after the kid attacked the cop and gained the upper hand he didn't flee, but decided to ground and pound the guy. This is ridiculously blatant victim blaming, the cop failing to prevent being assaulted does not make it the cops fault he was assaulted, that agency lies with the one pinning him to the ground and beating him bloody. Also I never mentioned your staffing point because I agree with it, but I'm not sure how useful of an observation it is when many of these small towns can't even afford a decent wage for their current manning level, never mind doubling it. But yeah, it would be great to have more training and have every cop with a partner.
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Jun 19, 2015 19:57
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Jarmak posted:Monday morning quarterbacking every detail Very tasteful. After all, life and death is just a game.
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Jun 19, 2015 19:59
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Jarmak posted:I'm sorry I never stopped to address your point about how the kid pinned the officer to the ground and beat the poo poo out of him only because he was driven mad with electric rage when the tazer only half connected, I thought I'd just let that idiocy stand on its own lack of merit. I don't generally agree with the way cops like to use tazers as compliance tools, but with the way this guy warned the kid about a million times that he was going to taze him if he didn't stop resisting this is about the least egregious example of that I've seen to date, particularly in light of the fact he was alone . Either way, Monday morning quarterbacking every detail of the way the cop conducted the stop and effected the arrest to find minor mistakes that enabled the assault does not take responsibility for the assault away from the kid. Nor does it change the fact that after the kid attacked the cop and gained the upper hand he didn't flee, but decided to ground and pound the guy. This is ridiculously blatant victim blaming, the cop failing to prevent being assaulted does not make it the cops fault he was assaulted, that agency lies with the one pinning him to the ground and beating him bloody. Let's try this out, where do you live? I will travel to where you are and sit on top of you and taze you, let me know when you feel the urge to fight back.
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Jun 19, 2015 20:02
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Dead Reckoning posted:You have no idea what you are talking about. Even alerted perception-reaction time, where a person is taking a single action (like pushing a pedal) to react to a stimulus they have been expecting, tends to hover around 1-1.5 seconds. Humans are, for the most part, not actually capable of literal split second decision making. This is perhaps the least important of all the incorrect and misleading claims you've been making, but since this is an area I have expertise in I felt like correcting you. At the risk of another pointless derail. https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Mental_chronometry quote:Simple reaction time is the motion required for an observer to respond to the presence of a stimulus. For example, a subject might be asked to press a button as soon as a light or sound appears. Mean RT for college-age individuals is about 160 milliseconds to detect an auditory stimulus, and approximately 190 milliseconds to detect visual stimulus.[2][3]
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