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Someone already suggested that a four button system could just have a "more" button to access another list of dialogue options, but another tweak that would allow for more would be to have a "page" button (like Right Trigger) that lets you flip through up to four options at a time, each hot keyed to a face button. That would honestly be better for me than scrolling through a giant list in the rare situations a giant list comes up. The system as shown doesn't have to be a death-knell of four-plus dialogue choice options. marshmallow creep fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Jun 22, 2015 |
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Jun 22, 2015 22:25
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Moridin920 posted:There really weren't. The times there were more than 4 responses were super rare. You might be right, I'm mostly remembering how long you could spend talking to the major characters. Still, I think having a lengthy conversation like with the Think Tank at the start of OWB would be awkward with the dialog system they've shown. Like I said, though, I don't think it'll be a problem in practice because this is Bethesda we're talking about. Involved, lengthy dialog isn't exactly their thing.
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Jun 22, 2015 22:27
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There's no reason for example to have a dialogue choice consisting of '1 move on to next topic' and '2-6 ask a question' when they could easily just do '1 move on' and '2 ask a question' and if you give a poo poo you just hit 2 until it is greyed out and your dude has nothing left to ask. Unless you are just mad that you won't be able to see the text of the question before you read it in the subtitles but idk that seems nitpicky as gently caress. e: I mean look don't get me wrong it'll probably be poo poo but I'm just reserving judgement until I see the final product.
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Jun 22, 2015 22:27
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Moridin920 posted:There really weren't. The times there were more than 4 responses were super rare. You could also build the dialog trees in such a way as to have the player cover the same number of topics over several branches. Instead of saying "hello" then having every topic under the sun instantly available. Most of the dialog in the current games just consists of you asking about things under different subtopics now anyway. Really not sure why people up in arms about this...
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Jun 22, 2015 22:27
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The biggest issue in e.g. DA2 with its dialogue wheel was every response had to fit into one of the "types" of response - sassy, serious etc. which really limited what could be said. So unless they're doing some sort of dumb "cool", "serious", "joking", "jerk" style dialogue wheel, i'm not too bothered by it. Course, it seems pretty pointless to make it a wheel over a menu in that case and i'd vastly prefer an actual menu, but eh.
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Jun 22, 2015 22:28
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megalodong posted:The biggest issue in e.g. DA2 with its dialogue wheel was every response had to fit into one of the "types" of response - sassy, serious etc. which really limited what could be said. I would not be surprised at all if it was a dialogue menu on PC and a wheel for consoles. I would prefer a wheel when using a controller, really.
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Jun 22, 2015 22:32
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Yeah but DA2 is like the worst possible scenario. It's like saying 'don't build any nuclear power plants because one time the Russians turned all the safeties off and overloaded the reactor to see what would happen.'
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Jun 22, 2015 22:33
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Moridin920 posted:Yeah but DA2 is like the worst possible scenario. Yeah, I quite liked Alpha Protocol's approach to it. Of course, that also had to do with it having Obsidian writers behind the dialogue.
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Jun 22, 2015 22:35
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I'd feel a lot better about Bethesda trying voiced protagonists out if they fully aped Alpha Protocol and set up a nice three Js system for how the conversation paths work. By themselves, there's nothing wrong with player avatars with a voice or simplified dialogue buttons. You just gotta have a writer that will let the voice actors be fun.
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Jun 22, 2015 22:36
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My biggest problem with dialogue trees like Alpha Protcol or Mass Effect or whatever is their little one or two word description next to the option often had little to no bearing on what was actually said and all that really mattered was that you chose the option that was in the "snarky" box. There were a lot of times in ME where I'd select a dialogue option and my guy would say something completely out of left field even if it technically followed the general theme of "let's go".
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Jun 22, 2015 23:01
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A bit late on this, but iirc a bunch of the songs in New Vegas aren't real 50s songs, just stuff done in that style and licensed out as stock audio. That stuff could presumably be written by a wastelander??? There's also, as was mentioned, a handful of songs written and performed by rope kid that that Bruce Isaac plays at The TopsSchlesische posted:It's a Bethesda game, and you get to run your own settlement. I mean if all the spoken dialogue contradicts your character idea because there are apparently only eight possibilities (that have to be reasonably consisten with one another since they're voiced by the same guy) it isn't Phlegmish posted:Really tired of being witty & competent. Why can't I play as the repulsive loser that I am? If you have never done a total gently caress-up flying by the seat of his pants who just gets extremely lucky run then buddy....... you haven't lived. Also cool: down-on-her-luck ex-badass trying to make good, confused schoolboy and petty thief trying to talk faster than his enemies can think, friendly idiot who loves to huck explosives and sic her pals on anyone who shoots first, bumbling jerk who means well but comes off like a major rear end in a top hat to everyone, and so on and so on. edit: Needless to say I am once again siding with the complainers et al where the dialogue cross is concerned--unless pressing the button once shows me exactly what I'm gonna say and pressing it twice accepts, which would be incredibly tedious, I think it under-serves the player
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Jun 22, 2015 23:16
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Azhais posted:Yes, long gone are the days when you had the options to scroll through 30 different replies as well as enter free-form text in response to questions. 30? Try hundreds! Come on Bethesda, just do a HD remake of Daggerfall, I promise to give you lots of money! One more generation of dumbing down Elder Scrolls/Fallout and its going to resemble fantasy Call of Duty: 
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Jun 22, 2015 23:50
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I've never played Daggerfall but that looks kickass
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Jun 22, 2015 23:52
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Pretzel Rod Stewart posted:I've never played Daggerfall but that looks kickass How many of those dialogue options are just copied and pasted among multiple characters?
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Jun 22, 2015 23:53
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True... Now I'm sad again. I guess I just want videogames to be tabletop games but for people with no friends (me)
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Jun 23, 2015 00:07
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chitoryu12 posted:How many of those dialogue options are just copied and pasted among multiple characters? I can assure you that each one of Daggerfalls 1,000,000+ randomly generated citizen NPCs has a completely unique dialog tree!  To give you an idea of the scale of Daggerfall, and what we have been robbed of as Bethesdas vision has withered away. This is an Average Daggerfall city, each house in this city has a full interior with people/stuff to steal/quests/etc:  This is an average provence in Hammerfell, it has a few hundred such cities like the one linked, and hundreds of dungeons/etc as well. The entire landmass is one big world, you can walk between the cities, but its insane to do this, fast travel is much easier as it takes about 10 real time min to walk between two of those little dots on the map:  This is but one of 43 provinces in the entire game of Daggerfall, each as big as that one with hundreds of cities full of thousands of NPCs: 
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Jun 23, 2015 00:08
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It's too bad Daggerfall is absolute hell to play and completely broken because the scale of it is amazing.
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Jun 23, 2015 00:09
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Aren't many of the building interiors copied and pasted or outright locked with no way to get in?
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Jun 23, 2015 00:14
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There's no way in hell I'd play a game as big as Daggerfall these days, though Skyrim and Oblivion do feel a bit barren at times. Even in major cities there's only about 30 people living there and half the buildings look like they're about to fall down.
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Jun 23, 2015 00:15
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So I just rage-uninstalled Fallout Shelter after some Radroaches killed everyone in less than a minute. Turns out they multiply. So if they show up after a raider attack and kill your low health guys, any remaining roaches can go to any rooms branching off of the one they were in and they'll all magically become a full swarm. So in about ten seconds every room in my vault was full of a swarm of 15 or so radroaches and not even the guys who had guns could fend them off because combat in Fallout Shelter is kind of rear end, enemies do constant damage to your dudes but enemies either have a ridiculous amount of HP, or your dudes just don't attack because it takes forever to kill even one roach out of a billion.
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Jun 23, 2015 00:17
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Million Ghosts posted:It's too bad Daggerfall is absolute hell to play and completely broken because the scale of it is amazing. Very true, but Minecrafts success tells me that a game on the scale of Daggerfall is possible to do right, I wish Bethesda had the guts to try something ambitious like Daggerfall again. I think they could make it work this time. chitoryu12 posted:Aren't many of the building interiors copied and pasted or outright locked with no way to get in? Well obviously, they randomly generated the interiors out of various pieces. There is no way they could have hand crafted every interior. The dungeons are a mess, you basically need the mark/recall spell to play the game at all.
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Jun 23, 2015 00:22
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Daggerfall is kinda like Just Cause 2, in that there's hundreds of little things to do, but they might not all work like that one water tower. Plus everything explodes frequently.
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Jun 23, 2015 00:28
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New Leaf posted:There's no way in hell I'd play a game as big as Daggerfall these days, though Skyrim and Oblivion do feel a bit barren at times. Even in major cities there's only about 30 people living there and half the buildings look like they're about to fall down. it's why i like the mods that add random nobles/city folk, adventurers, robbers, etc. in towns and out on the roads
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Jun 23, 2015 00:29
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Is anyone who worked on Daggerfall even still at Beth? That was a long time ago and I'm sure anyone still around is jaded as all hell by now.
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Jun 23, 2015 00:33
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The enclave had the best looking power armor.
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Jun 23, 2015 00:35
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Million Ghosts posted:Is anyone who worked on Daggerfall even still at Beth? That was a long time ago and I'm sure anyone still around is jaded as all hell by now. Todd Howard may have a weirdly boyish appearance, but he's in his mid forties and has been at Bethesda since the tail end of Arena.
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Jun 23, 2015 00:54
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He killed the other old devs to gain their power and youth.
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Jun 23, 2015 00:54
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For every lie Todd Howard tells, he gains one extra day on his lifespan
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Jun 23, 2015 01:01
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He puts a tiny bit of his soul into every TES game they sell.
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Jun 23, 2015 01:07
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So something I noticed something after rewatching the E3 video and I haven't seen anyone talk about it yet. During when Todd was showing off the weapon customization, they have different weapon dmg types including physical, energy, fire, and in the plasma weapon case both physical and energy. I can already see a ammo damage type mod on the horizon that splits physical damage between piecing and blunt. Back Hack fucked around with this message at 01:19 on Jun 23, 2015 |
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Jun 23, 2015 01:10
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7c Nickel posted:Todd Howard may have a weirdly boyish appearance, but he's in his mid forties and has been at Bethesda since the tail end of Arena. I meant outside of Howard, he's gonna keep lieing to all of us and all of our children beyond.
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Jun 23, 2015 01:28
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I'm still loling that this turned out to be real There's literally zero player input in that at all, it reads like a Bioshock game but stupider
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Jun 23, 2015 01:34
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Rutibex posted:Very true, but Minecrafts success tells me that a game on the scale of Daggerfall is possible to do right, I wish Bethesda had the guts to try something ambitious like Daggerfall again. I think they could make it work this time. Minecraft works because there's no content.
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Jun 23, 2015 01:38
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http://www.twinfinite.net/2015/06/22/check-out-this-breathtaking-minecraft-pixel-art-world-record-made-with-over-1m-blocks/
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Jun 23, 2015 01:39
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I'm just beginning to wonder if Pretzel's going to get tired of this any time soon, he's already repeating himself.
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Jun 23, 2015 01:41
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Pretzel Rod Stewart posted:There's literally zero player input in that at all, it reads like a Bioshock game but stupider Well, there is, kinda. If you look at The Dadroid's lines, you see him being nice, kind of a dick, and seemingly making an intelligence check to find an alternate solution. So the audition script's about the actor showing that he or she can voice the kinds of lines in the actual script.
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Jun 23, 2015 01:47
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Anita Dickinme posted:http://www.twinfinite.net/2015/06/22/check-out-this-breathtaking-minecraft-pixel-art-world-record-made-with-over-1m-blocks/ i'm just watching this video and thinking "yep that's what you would look like if you underwent this kind of project"
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Jun 23, 2015 01:52
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Republican Vampire posted:Well, there is, kinda. If you look at The Dadroid's lines, you see him being nice, kind of a dick, and seemingly making an intelligence check to find an alternate solution. So the audition script's about the actor showing that he or she can voice the kinds of lines in the actual script. No, see this page of conversation from an audition script proves there will be no significant player input because they didn't write out and make them voice all the different options for talking during the voice audition and furthermore 
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Jun 23, 2015 01:53
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Pretzel Rod Stewart posted:I'm still loling that this turned out to be real That's an audition script. It's one dialogue path with none of the alternative choices given in the game. We even saw that scene in the Microsoft demo presentation and it was heavily rewritten, with only the barest elements still remaining.
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Jun 23, 2015 01:57
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*sigh* Only another 140 days until everyone's too busy playing this to give a poo poo about inane posts. At least Anno 2205 comes out a week ahead of time, that should help tide me over for the final stretch.
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Jun 23, 2015 01:59
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