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Stultus Maximus posted:
Admitting that your ancestors were really bad and stupid can be traumatic. It takes time and education and a person has to come to that conclusion on their own, it can't be forced on them by others. Wasn't there a whole youth movement in Germany that centered around a backlash against the German survivors of WW II and what a horrible legacy they made for their children?
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Jun 23, 2015 23:18
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Joementum posted:I am kind of curious how far people will go with the statue thing. Why stop at Jefferson Davis? There's an Alexander Stephens statue in the Capitol too, along with at least a half dozen Confederate generals. If there's any figure that absolutely has to go it's Nathan Bedford Forrest. Besides his military acumen he was a monster with few redeeming qualities at all.
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Jun 23, 2015 23:19
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Could it possibly be a tad bit early to call this the only meaningful change to result from this terrorist attack? There isn't even any real hope that the flag will be removed from the statehouse. Sure, the market is making some noise about not enabling these racists, but the big one is the flag at the Capitol. I just don't see that being taken down, not when they need a 2/3 's vote.
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Jun 23, 2015 23:19
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I still think that it's hilarious that Rt 1 in Virginia, which literally runs right in to DC, is named Jefferson Davis Highway
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Jun 23, 2015 23:29
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Yeah, several churches in this area have rainbow flags on them. In radical leftist Upstate New York. Whereabouts? Ain't never seen no queer church flag here in Western New York (I have seen one at a synagogue though).
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Jun 23, 2015 23:30
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I think you can make a better support of your argument than a terrible, now-defunct court decision to jail war protesters.
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Jun 23, 2015 23:30
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That happening is actually part of progress. We all get to congratulate ourselves and be on the winning side while things also get incrementally less racist. Making a major racist shibboleth unacceptable goes a long way towards furthering that end. It is nowhere as extreme as I would like, but then again, I'm a radical. Having major Republican figures (including the presumptive establishment favor and a previous candidate for President) come out against Confederate iconography is a move in the right direction. People talk about sweeping things under the rug. The whole idea about sweeping is that you gather a big enough pile to throw away. This dialogue is recognizing that the mess we have is big enough to get out from underneath the rug and into the garbage. I'll agree that there is a huge rear end bulge under the rug and the floor is dirty as poo poo. But even these topical solutions are better than the longstanding history of "salutary neglect".
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Jun 23, 2015 23:30
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Young Freud posted:I don't think any of those old Challengers from Dukes of Hazzard exist anymore. They pretty much wrecked a car a week on the show, and someone wrapped a surviving one around a tree last week. There's probably one in a museum, but the new one had the flag erased from it's roof. The dude that wrecked it? 29 year old Mohammed Abdulla Jamali, who was subsequently arrested and charged with reckless driving due to the use of improperly adjusted brakes.
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Jun 23, 2015 23:39
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ReidRansom posted:Amazing. They do not and will not (at least for now).
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Jun 23, 2015 23:40
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this_is_hard posted:I still think that it's hilarious that Rt 1 in Virginia, which literally runs right in to DC, is named Jefferson Davis Highway Like literally right across the Potomac. The first time I ever saw a sign for that I'm all yep, they want you to know right away they were Confederate.
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Jun 23, 2015 23:42
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Doctor Butts posted:Maybe in another fifty years they'll address how cops treat minorities differently. Nothing's going to happen with this lack of self-awareness. If you're talking about the Carolinas in particular, they're better than basically every other state when it comes to calling cops to the carpet. Contrast what happened to Eric Garner's killer versus the Charleston cop who shot Walter Scott, is being charged, and is also abandoned by his union. Stultus Maximus posted:Well, since it's more than anyone did after Sandy Hook or Aurora, I think we can assume that this is the most meaningful action that will be taken. I'm not sure what gun regs besides "no guns" would've helped here.
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Jun 23, 2015 23:42
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This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!
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Joementum posted:I am kind of curious how far people will go with the statue thing. Why stop at Jefferson Davis? There's an Alexander Stephens statue in the Capitol too, along with at least a half dozen Confederate generals. I thought Albert Pike was the only confederate general with a statue in DC.
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Jun 23, 2015 23:45
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And as it turns out, the Jefferson Davis Highway in Arlington was part of a planned cross-country highway bearing that name: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Jefferson_Davis_Highway
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Jun 23, 2015 23:48
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DeusExMachinima posted:I'm not sure what gun regs besides "no guns" would've helped here. I dunno. If his father gave him the gun, then he should totally get jail time. If the seller did not perform due diligence and sold the gun to someone who shouldn't own a gun, they should at least face major fines if not serious time in jail. If the state reporting methods are inefficient, too bad. They should create their own free market version, let that solve the problem. It's about keeping gun sellers safe so they can better ply their trade.
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Jun 23, 2015 23:48
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DeusExMachinima posted:I'm not sure what gun regs besides "no guns" would've helped here. Yeah, this is a really awful example case for gun control. Roof could have been 100% as symbolic and historically-ominous by burning the church down around the people and/or throwing a homemade explosive and/or using a hunting rifle. Sandy Hook was a good argument for at gun control, senseless violence by someone with legit mental illness and unreasonable access to powerful guns. This is a premeditated hate crime, where it IS probably true that he could have accomplished it without a gun.
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Jun 23, 2015 23:48
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radical meme posted:Admitting that your ancestors were really bad and stupid can be traumatic. It takes time and education and a person has to come to that conclusion on their own, it can't be forced on them by others. Wasn't there a whole youth movement in Germany that centered around a backlash against the German survivors of WW II and what a horrible legacy they made for their children? I don't understand this. I have an ancestor from South Carolina who raised a company to fight in the Civil War. He was a racist piece of poo poo and I've always been glad his side lost. If it was my parents or grandparents, like in Germany, then maybe I'd feel differently, but this man lived and died more than a hundred years before I was born. I don't get why I should feel particularly attached to how he lived his life.
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Jun 23, 2015 23:56
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Luigi Thirty posted:It's great that we're all banning the Confederate flag so we can feel good about not addressing structural racism in any form. It's great that you can post this and pretend the previous four pages aren't just chockablock full of people saying the exact same thing. Hell Obama said the same thing on a podcast and the post right before yours is expressing the same sentiment. Just not as smugly. To deny that this is a step forward, or that any victory short of absolute is worthless, is childish.
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Jun 23, 2015 23:56
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ReidRansom posted:I thought Albert Pike was the only confederate general with a statue in DC. In the National Statuary Hall Collection: Major-General Joseph Wheeler (AL) General Edmund Kirby Smith (FL) Lieutenant General Wade Hampton (SC) General Robert E. Lee (VA)
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Jun 23, 2015 23:57
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berzerker posted:Yeah, this is a really awful example case for gun control. Roof could have been 100% as symbolic and historically-ominous by burning the church down around the people and/or throwing a homemade explosive and/or using a hunting rifle. Sandy Hook was a good argument for at gun control, senseless violence by someone with legit mental illness and unreasonable access to powerful guns. This is a premeditated hate crime, where it IS probably true that he could have accomplished it without a gun. Homemade explosives capable of killing many people are more difficult to acquire or construct from allowable materials than many suppose. See: the Boston Bombings. This guy couldn't case a joint without getting the cops called, I doubt he could have stolen or manufactured enough explosives to kill 9 people.
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Jun 23, 2015 23:57
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Joementum posted:In the National Statuary Hall Collection: Ah OK maybe he's the only outdoor one.
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Jun 24, 2015 00:00
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Joementum posted:The Senate shut down for a bit today. Probably had something to do with this: That last one is surprising to me. I thought the DC handgun ban was struck down?
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Jun 24, 2015 00:01
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VikingofRock posted:That last one is surprising to me. I thought the DC handgun ban was struck down? The Capitol has different regulations than elsewhere in DC. For example: sledding is banned.
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Jun 24, 2015 00:02
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Trabisnikof posted:Homemade explosives capable of killing many people are more difficult to acquire or construct from allowable materials than many suppose. Well some guy nearly blew up his house here this week with his arsenal of doomsday explosives. 85 year old guy with bombs, hand grenades, land mines, guns, ammo, a machine gun, dementia, and a felony rap going back to 1946.
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Jun 24, 2015 00:02
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Warner Bros. is officially removing the Confederate flags off of all Dukes of Hazzard merch: http://www.vulture.com/2015/06/dukes-hazzard-confederate-flag-warner-bros-stop-licensing.html I'm genuinely surprised at how sudden and extreme the backlash against Confederate imagery has been the last few days. Even if none of this results in an actual discussion of institutional racism, it's at least a cultural course correction that should have happened decades ago.
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Jun 24, 2015 00:06
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Trabisnikof posted:Homemade explosives capable of killing many people are more difficult to acquire or construct from allowable materials than many suppose. See: the Boston Bombings. This guy couldn't case a joint without getting the cops called, I doubt he could have stolen or manufactured enough explosives to kill 9 people. Seriously, it isn't impossible to buy black powder, but it isn't exactly as easy as buying a gun, either. What else are you going to make a bomb out of? If he went to buy black powder they would probably have laughed at him and turned his info over to the fbi. I guess you could buy it in small quantities over a long period of time, but people don't think that way.
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Jun 24, 2015 00:07
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HorseRenoir posted:Warner Bros. is officially removing the Confederate flags off of all Dukes of Hazzard merch: http://www.vulture.com/2015/06/dukes-hazzard-confederate-flag-warner-bros-stop-licensing.html At this rate, our children might not have to deal with people ignoring historical documents on the cause of the Civil War.
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Jun 24, 2015 00:14
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Pohl posted:Seriously, it isn't impossible to buy black powder, but it isn't exactly as easy as buying a gun, either. taqueso fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Jun 24, 2015 |
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Jun 24, 2015 00:15
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Joementum posted:In the National Statuary Hall Collection: A lot of those guys, Pike included, did stuff after the war to get those statues. Some of those guys came back and served the U.S. Army after the civil war. I'm all for holding people's past against them forever though when it's this egregious. Dump them in a river.
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Jun 24, 2015 00:17
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taqueso posted:It is very easy to buy gunpowder intended for reloading ammunition. In small amounts, not the amounts you would need for a bomb. My family had a mine and my dad and uncle bought black powder for demolition purposes. They had to jump through a lot of hoops to get enough to actually blow poo poo up.
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Jun 24, 2015 00:17
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It's a good point. Do we just remove all the statues of unreconstructed racists from the Capitol?
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Jun 24, 2015 00:20
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Joementum posted:The theory that the Nazi's were so evil because they were all gay has been around in the American evangelical movement for decades. See The Pink Swastika by failed Massachusetts Gubernatorial candidate and drafter of murderous Ugandan laws Scott Lively. I'll take your word for it. Joementum posted:The Senate shut down for a bit today. Probably had something to do with this: This reminds me of that episode of Alpha House where the Tea Party Congresswoman/Donna from The West Wing starts waving her gun around.
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Jun 24, 2015 00:22
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Pohl posted:In small amounts, not the amounts you would need for a bomb. My family had a mine and my dad and uncle bought black powder for demolition purposes. They had to jump through a lot of hoops to get enough to actually blow poo poo up. I don't know how much is enough and I am hesitant to try and google it, but you can buy 8lb tubs online or in store, and I don't think there is any tracking on those purchases.
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Jun 24, 2015 00:26
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A series of adds for Autotrader.com came out a while back featuring the General Lee and the Duke Boys. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6syCBrvmJ68 All of the shots are real low angles so you can't see the roof. I wonder if it was at the request of WB or the website. Either way, somebody knew the flag was bad for business. Here is an article for adweek.
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Jun 24, 2015 00:31
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Dilkington posted:Whereabouts? Ain't never seen no queer church flag here in Western New York (I have seen one at a synagogue though). Albany. You know, where your tax dollars are converted to graft.
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Jun 24, 2015 00:32
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radical meme posted:Admitting that your ancestors were really bad and stupid can be traumatic. It takes time and education and a person has to come to that conclusion on their own, it can't be forced on them by others. Wasn't there a whole youth movement in Germany that centered around a backlash against the German survivors of WW II and what a horrible legacy they made for their children? A huge part of the generational clash that took place in 1960s West Germany centered entirely on the kids who either were very young or not even born during the war confronting their parents' refusal to own up to what, exactly, they'd been doing 1933 - 45.
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Jun 24, 2015 00:35
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Trabisnikof posted:Homemade explosives capable of killing many people are more difficult to acquire or construct from allowable materials than many suppose. See: the Boston Bombings. This guy couldn't case a joint without getting the cops called, I doubt he could have stolen or manufactured enough explosives to kill 9 people. It's pretty easy to fill a make a few molotov cocktails, as witnessed by the continual arson of black churches since the Civil War.
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Jun 24, 2015 00:36
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taqueso posted:I don't know how much is enough and I am hesitant to try and google it, but you can buy 8lb tubs online or in store, and I don't think there is any tracking on those purchases. Yeah, that is just crazy. I never realized it was so available. 8 lbs would be a pretty drat good start...
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Jun 24, 2015 00:39
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Pohl posted:Yeah, that is just crazy. I never realized it was so available. 8 lbs would be a pretty drat good start... Back in high school a friend of mine and I used to screw around with pyrodex all the drat time, because like all teenagers we were bored, stupid, and had poor impulse control. It was never particularly hard to get in quantity.
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Jun 24, 2015 00:44
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taqueso posted:I don't know how much is enough and I am hesitant to try and google it, but you can buy 8lb tubs online or in store, and I don't think there is any tracking on those purchases. The limit is 50lbs. But you're only allowed to buy it to use for your guns, which is an interesting consideration. Besides, black powder alone doesn't make that great of a bomb, so you get results like the Boston Bombing, which resulted in fewer fatalities than this shooting. To get big, building destroying results you need more complex or larger explosives. There's no evidence Roof had the complex knowledge to make high explosives (otherwise he'd have found a better racist occupation) and there's no reasonable way he could have wheeled a suitcase anfo in bomb and then asked everyone to stand around it and still killed nine. berzerker posted:It's pretty easy to fill a make a few molotov cocktails, as witnessed by the continual arson of black churches since the Civil War. And its pretty hard to kill 9 people when you do it. As evidenced by those same continual arsons.
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Jun 24, 2015 00:51
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With trade votes expected this week, the House Freedom Caucus is meeting in the Tortilla Coast basement tonight. 
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Jun 24, 2015 01:00
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