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My wife's CRV will freeze you out even in the middle of June, though (like every other car I've ever owned here in AZ) it will take some time to get there. You're comfortable fairly quickly.
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Jun 15, 2015 03:29
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Question: I've heard rumors about using Propane in place of R-12 in lieu of retrofitting to R134. Yay or nay?
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Jun 16, 2015 05:32
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It's not a rumour, R-290 (aka Propane) is used as a replacement for R-22 and R-502 in industrial cooling and Refrigeration systems. It will technically "work" in your car, however the pressure/temp curve is completely different, so the system will short cycle. In addition, just like how the O2 in welding cylinders isn't breathable, the stuff they sell in 20lb cylinders at the hardware store isn't the same thing they put in Refrigeration systems. So yeah, if you DGAF about the technical and legal ramifications, it will work.
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Jun 16, 2015 06:04
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I'd say R152 (which is briefly mentioned in the OP) would be a better choice if you're looking to actually convert a system.
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Jun 16, 2015 06:06
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Sadi posted:Yeah, ive read the post. im sitting on the correct pressure for the temp, as you'd expect. It appears that the compressor is not turning on with the switch when the car is warm. the ac fan does however turn on. BloodBag posted:Is it possible the AC just sucked to begin with? My wife's 99 civic had some pretty lovely AC from day one when we got it (in 07). We live in Houston though, which murders AC. Do any Japanese cars come with good AC? I always thought that Ford had the best AC and everyone else was just a pretender. My MIL's navigator was appallingly cold right off of startup. This thing had almost as good of a/c as my e39 540i.
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Jun 16, 2015 09:01
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MRC48B posted:It's not a rumour, R-290 (aka Propane) is used as a replacement for R-22 and R-502 in industrial cooling and Refrigeration systems. Are there risks associated with short cycling the system?
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Jun 16, 2015 14:23
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CommieGIR posted:Are there risks associated with short cycling the system? Your compressor will fail much sooner than otherwise, and you will get poor cooling.
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Jun 16, 2015 14:47
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I would just run R152 instead. I would love to hear how R290 is different from propane, though, C3H8 is C3H8. Unless you are counting the methyl mercaptan added to liquefied propane as a leak detection scent, which likely won't cause that much of an issue.
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Jun 17, 2015 04:36
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I would be worried about quality control. Water and other additives. The stuff in a fuel cylinder is "Mostly propane + a bunch of other hydrocarbons that will burn off" Most of the stuff i've heard about using Propane as an R-12 dropin are accompanied by something about how the EPA is satan and how "the gubmint cant tell me what to do  "Of course, as I previously stated, if you don't give a poo poo about either system longevity or regulatory compliance... knock yourself out.
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Jun 17, 2015 04:56
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Fair enough, and yeah, I've seen an awful lot of the "100mpg carbs, faked moon landings, chemtrails, and jet fuel can't melt steel beams" sorts posting about it and no one actually doing it, so you're likely right.
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Jun 17, 2015 05:47
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On a similar note, is it possible to use anhydrous ammonia in an automotive air conditioning system?
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Jun 17, 2015 12:28
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Probably, but the results of an evaporator leak would be a tad more detrimental to your health at a guess
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Jun 17, 2015 14:42
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rdb posted:On a similar note, is it possible to use anhydrous ammonia in an automotive air conditioning system? hahaha holy poo poo complicated. BrokenKnucklez fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Jun 17, 2015 |
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Jun 17, 2015 16:55
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BrokenKnucklez posted:Its not like it couldn't be done, but I imagine there would be some TXV's and some other poo poo involved. I know ammonia systems get loving COLD though. A couple years back, my wife and I toured the Steven's Point brewery in Wisconsin. It's been there and operating long enough that they don't use glycol for cooling. They use ammonia. It was a bit odd to see, and felt slightly terrifying seeing the size and amounts of pipes going everywhere.
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Jun 17, 2015 16:59
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It's very likely that was an absorbtion refridgeration system. Which is mystical voodoo magic to me. Add heat = get cold. 
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Jun 17, 2015 17:27
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For any one who wants to geek out on Ammonia, here is an image. (there is no txv valve - I need to revise my statement)
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Jun 17, 2015 17:28
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You can still use ammonia in a regular phase change system with a compressor and txv and what not, it just needs to specifically be designed and built that way. Ammonia was one of the original phase-change refridgerants, it's just fallen out of use except in industrial applications, because it's extremely toxic. Guys who build/service industrial ammonia systems make  because of this.
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Jun 17, 2015 17:33
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Is that how those RV/camper fridges work? I remember when I was a kid we had a travel trailer and my dad had to light a pilot light on the fridge from the outside. I always was confused how the hell that worked. E: ayup http://home.howstuffworks.com/refrigerator5.htm loving fascinating.
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Jun 17, 2015 19:08
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Anyone have any good/bad experiences with the schrader valve core removal/installation tools? I've got a high side valve that's leaking, and rather than just charge it every year I figured I'd just buy/rent the tool to replace it while keeping the system pressurized. Also, how do I find out what size valve core I have? Car is a 2004 Mazda3 2.3L.
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Jun 18, 2015 23:03
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I'm real happy with my mastercool kit. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0015KH93K?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage And I'm not sure how you find out other than by removing it. I bet there is something somewhere that you can look up, but I just have a little box full of all of them and match it up. (yeah, not helpful)
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Jun 19, 2015 03:02
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I was actually looking at that exact kit. They've also got #58490, which covers Eaton and GM large bore, but since 90% of what I do is imports I'm guessing the one you linked would be fine. And something like this? http://www.amazon.com/Mastercool-91337-R-134a-Valve-Repair/dp/B000O823YO/ref=pd_sim_263_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=1E634H7N2MGD4ZSZDMZD I was debating just grabbing an $11 pack of standard/jra cores and caps, since I don't know that I need the Eaton/GM cores that I don't have a tool for anyway.
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Jun 19, 2015 15:57
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PitViper posted:I was actually looking at that exact kit. They've also got #58490, which covers Eaton and GM large bore, but since 90% of what I do is imports I'm guessing the one you linked would be fine. Either will work, and having the other cores is still a good thing if you do this kind of work - the only core tool you need to change them when the system is empty comes in that box. It's all up to what you think you might be doing in the future.
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Jun 19, 2015 16:46
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gently caress A/C. Buy a $50 "EZ REFILL" kit, just because i can't find my real manifold/gauges. Piece of poo poo actually dumps 2/3s a can into the system because the "quick connect" jammed up, then when i tried to force the trigger back, it dumped the rest of the can into my engine bay/drive way. Now i need to get another manifold, dump the excess somewhere safe, and then realize my clutch just needs a shim removed. Not even once man. Gingerbread House Music fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Jun 19, 2015 |
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Jun 19, 2015 20:02
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I just tried a recharge per the 3rd post, and I'm not sure what happened. Please advise? Car is a '97 Toyota Corolla. As far as I know, the AC system has never been touched. The AC has sucked for the past year or two - takes forever to get cold (seems to depend on how fast the car is going) and when it does get cold, its not even really all that cold. I figured I'd finally do something about it. I picked up a HF manifold gauge set, can tap, and can of R134a and attempted to improve things. The car sat in my garage for at-least two days. Thermometer on the wall said the ambient temp was 95 degrees F. Static test read 105psi low, 100-102psi high. Should have been ~120psi according to gauge. I took this to mean I only had gas phase refrigerant left, which seemed to explain the poor performance. I started the car, closed it up, turned on the AC, fan on Max, recirc airflow. After a few minutes, running pressures stabilized at 40psi low, 210-215psi high. Per my understanding, I should shoot for ~50psi low, ~270psi high. The first two times I added some refrigerant, the low side kicked up to about 70psi, and then rapidly dropped to 40psi. After that, adding refrigerant appeared to do nothing. I left the car alone for 15 minutes. As I let things run, the low side started dropping to 35psi. Then I attempted adding refrigerant which kicked the low side up to 40psi, but it would drop back to 35psi after about 5 minutes. Since it didn't seem like I was making any progress, I just stopped, turned off the car (AC seemed to be working great when I hopped in to turn the key off), and carefully disconnected everything. Did I do something wrong? Did the evaporator ice over? Should I be hunting for leaks? I'm quite confused at this point and would appreciate a bit of guidance.
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Jun 22, 2015 04:00
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Gotta try getting my car charged this week, either 152A or something. Its getting bad out here.
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Jun 22, 2015 04:19
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CommieGIR posted:Gotta try getting my car charged this week, either 152A or something. Its getting bad out here. Its on my agenda as well. 3 out of 4 cars with working ac ain't bad!
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Jun 22, 2015 04:28
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Sounds like you did everything right. Did the refrigerant you put in have dye in it? If not, go get yourself a can of that plus a UV flashlight. You probably have a leak on the high side that is only bleeding off at higher pressures. Try putting some more in, as much as you can with dye and then look for the glow with your UV flashlight.
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Jun 22, 2015 04:29
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Motronic posted:Sounds like you did everything right. No, the parts store was pretty well picked over, seems like everyone is trying to fix their AC with the "heat wave" we are having. The options at the time were vanilla r143a, and cans with dye and leak stop. Seeing as I know how terrible leak stop is in the cooling system, I figured it was an equally bad idea in the AC system. I was also assuming it would be a simple recharge job. Oh, how optimistic that seems now. I'll hunt down a can with just dye in it this week. A high side leak at higher pressures makes sense now that I think back to how things were behaving. I'll try what you suggest. Thanks!
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Jun 22, 2015 04:55
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You're absolutely right: stop leak is loving death in these systems. You can never drain it again (or it all seizes up - it drys when it hits air). If you can't find R134a with dye but can find just dye in a bottle you can detach the charging hose (and/or the low side hose) and fill either/both with dye.....this could be problematic if you don't have something to keep the valve open at the bottom, but it's possible.....and then hook up and charge with your pure r134a. This will at least get a couple hose fulls of dye in there, which might be enough for you to figure out what is going on. Yes, you're going to make an absolute mess. Just deal with it (and do the filling outside and with disposable gloves on).
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Jun 22, 2015 05:04
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Ok, I found a can of r134a plus dye (only) at another parts store. However I noticed the instructions on the can indicate it should be used inverted only so that the dye and refrigerant leave the can in the liquid state. It makes sense to me why that might be, however it sounds like I'll be pumping liquid refrigerant into the system, which sounds like it'll be bad for the compressor. Whats the sane way to proceed here? Use the can inverted, but only add a bit at a time to try to minimize the stress on the compressor?
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Jun 23, 2015 18:53
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If you vacuum the system then start filling, you can invert the can and open the valve with the a/c off. That'll let the refrigerant fill the system and get the dye in, but then let the refrigerant boil off so it's in the gas phase. Once the pressures equalize, lift the can and service hose up above the gauges to make sure all the dye has drained into the system, then turn the can upright, turn the compressor on and continue filling as normal.
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Jun 23, 2015 20:10
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Brigdh posted:Ok, I found a can of r134a plus dye (only) at another parts store. However I noticed the instructions on the can indicate it should be used inverted only so that the dye and refrigerant leave the can in the liquid state. It makes sense to me why that might be, however it sounds like I'll be pumping liquid refrigerant into the system, which sounds like it'll be bad for the compressor. Whats the sane way to proceed here? Use the can inverted, but only add a bit at a time to try to minimize the stress on the compressor? You start out inverted after a vac (if you're doing that) and then when the system is running you shake and tip the can 90+ degrees every few seconds as it's charging. This way it's just a bit at a time, not a huge gulp.
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Jun 24, 2015 01:18
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Hmm. I don't have the capability to vac the system at this time. Right now, I'd like to try to identify the leak (or other issue) and use that to determine if I want to DIY the repairs, or take it somewhere. It sounds like the best way to accomplish that is to return the can of r134a/dye I bought, get a bottle of dye to fill the service hose with, and a can of regular r134a to get some dye in the system without introducing liquid refrigerant. Thanks for walking me through this. Since I have no experience, I'm paranoid about breaking my daily driver.
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Jun 24, 2015 02:55
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Worse case scenario... You won't have functional ac. Just read the OP, then read it again about 5 times. Once you understand how the poo poo all works, ac systems are pretty easy for the most part.
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Jun 24, 2015 06:16
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Parts stores carry a dye injector. You fill it with dye then you connect the can on one side and the service line on the other. I think I saw online some "one shot" pressurized dye things that inject dye when you plug them into the service port too.
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Jun 24, 2015 09:00
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mafoose posted:Parts stores carry a dye injector. You fill it with dye then you connect the can on one side and the service line on the other. If you already have a manifold gauge set you don't need to go through the expense of one of those. I have something like this. Take the low hose off the manifold and fill it from the charging side, then do the same for the service line if you need more dye. Then you hook it up as normal with a can of refrigerant and let enough flow to blow the dye through. Sure, at a shop you don't have the time. But at a shop you can just hit a few buttons on the robinaire and have it do all of this for you anyway.
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Jun 24, 2015 16:32
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BrokenKnucklez posted:Worse case scenario... You won't have functional ac. Just read the OP, then read it again about 5 times. Thanks for this utterly unhelpful post. Due to the packaging on this car, the worst case is actually a nonfunctional car, which I'd like to avoid unexpected instances of since its my primary vehicle. I've read the OP multiple times already. Quite a few times before I even started this, and a few times since then. Perhaps you'd like to point out the part I so obviously missed that describes how one adds dye to a partially/mostly charged system for hunting down a leak for the purposes of scoping out the needed repairs? Being an engineer, I like to think that I'm pretty good at understand and figuring things out, but I've seen first hand how badly someone can gently caress something up when they read a simple how-to guide and think they are now a qualified expert.
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Jun 24, 2015 17:37
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If you don't want to mess with pouring dye into a manifold gauge hose, Autozone sells little cans of dye with a low pressure connect on the end of the hose. Hook it up to the low pressure port, and press the trigger when the system is running to inject the dye. It's like $6-8, and you can get 4-5 shots out of it. I used it to track down a HP valve leak, and a slightly leaky condenser recently. Not going to lie, I'll probably just do the manifold hose trick in the future. The bottles of dye are normally way cheaper than the pressurized can.
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Jun 24, 2015 18:01
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Brigdh posted:Thanks for this utterly unhelpful post. Due to the packaging on this car, the worst case is actually a nonfunctional car, which I'd like to avoid unexpected instances of since its my primary vehicle. He said functional AC, not functional car. As long as you don't nuke the idler bearing on the compressor clutch assembly (which is REALLY HARD TO DO and doesn't usually involve the AC system at all) you can just unplug the clutch coil, shrug, and drive to work in your un-air-conditioned car.
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Jun 24, 2015 18:03
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kastein posted:He said functional AC, not functional car. The compressor is right next to the cooling system radiator. Unlikely, sure, but if the compressor decides to grenade, its taking out the cooling system with it. He did say worst case.... PitViper posted:If you don't want to mess with pouring dye into a manifold gauge hose, Autozone sells little cans of dye with a low pressure connect on the end of the hose. Hook it up to the low pressure port, and press the trigger when the system is running to inject the dye. It's like $6-8, and you can get 4-5 shots out of it. I used it to track down a HP valve leak, and a slightly leaky condenser recently. Not going to lie, I'll probably just do the manifold hose trick in the future. The bottles of dye are normally way cheaper than the pressurized can. I'm fine with pouring dye down the gauge hose, so long as its low risk to the system. Making a mess? Meh, that's what rags are for. Anyways, I have an idea or two to proceed. Right now, its finding some free time to come back to it, and putting some effort into finding the leak.
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Jun 24, 2015 18:33
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