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Waroduce posted:I seriously hope its more Ravenor vs Eisenhorn. Bequin is cool and poo poo, but im in the series for those two characters and Cherubal. I was super disappointed in Pariah because I wanted Eisenhorn and Ravenor and it failed to deliver "The first third of Moby Dick didn't have enough white whale in it."
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Jun 20, 2015 14:13
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Waroduce posted:Guys the Ahriman books are real fuckin good btw if ur lookin for something to read. I read the Ahriman books and wasn't impressed at all. The author tried too hard to make the books run at a crescendo pace from start to finish, and it had the opposite effect and turned them into a slog to read. The description of the Wolves was pretty good, but on the other hand, controlled time travel, the worst plot device an author can pull out. Yes, ships leaving and departing the Warp in a non-linear fashion is well established, but Ahriman had control over it, which I believe has always been an off-limits thing. The only other really explicit time travel that I can recall in a 40K book was the three-sided door in Ravenor, and the characters clearly didn't have control over that. Firstborn posted:If Miles Cameron hasn't written for Warhammer Fantasy yet, he should. Try his book The Red Knight. It's like Warhammer with the numbers filed off. Amazing gore-soaked fights with super detailed arms, armor, and tactics. A complex magic system based on a more metal version of catholic holy man stuff where Jesus uppercuts evil, and a refreshingly interesting look at how to be an rear end in a top hat on the sly with chivalry and get in barbs on your frenemies while bowing in their face and smirking underneath your helmet. It owns. Cameron owns hard, but I'd place his historical fiction (written as Christian Cameron, for some reason, as opposed to Miles Cameron for his fantasy stuff) well above The Red Knight, which I think is probably his weakest work. Try "Alexander: God of War," which is a self-contained novel about Alexander the Great. It not only has serious battle scenes, but also some moments of philosophy and clever writing that really struck home for me. He'd be an awesome Warhammer/40K writer if he got interested in the setting. Kylaer fucked around with this message at 15:17 on Jun 20, 2015 |
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Jun 20, 2015 15:14
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Sulecrist posted:"The first third of Moby Dick didn't have enough white whale in it." Yeah but at least that first third had some Queequeg on Ishmael action, c'mon.
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Jun 20, 2015 15:55
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Emnity posted:Pariah sequal needs to happen, I don't care if he has comics to write for other franchises Yeah, I want more 40k as proper literature! Hopefully with Abnett maintaining the 'Great Expectations' vibe of the first novel.
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Jun 20, 2015 16:44
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Sulecrist posted:"The first third of Moby Dick didn't have enough white whale in it." Im six books into Ravenor and Eisenhorn I want to see them do poo poo, I dont need a slow, meandering introduction to Bequin and her whole set up. I wanted ravenor vs eisenhorn, it was marketed as ravenor vs eisenhorn and it was bullshit we didnt see either of those characters until the last 10 pages. Yea its a trilogy and introductions but I dont wanna see them from her point of view. I love those characters, give them to me. I dont have a problem with the book, itd be a great stand alone. It was just super disappointing imo
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Jun 20, 2015 18:23
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I just finished the Night Lords omnibus and fuuuuuck Fuuuuuuuuuck DECIMUS PROPHET OF THE VIII LEGION was the best way to end that book even if it was mad fuckin obvious What else is there that's ridiculously metal edit and yes I've read Eisenhorn and Ravenor and some of Gaunts Ghosts and ADB's other books. edit gently caress why did nobody tell me he's got a Black Legion series that his editors have told him would be great if it was his Gaunt's Ghosts fuuuck fuuuuuuuuuuuuck BENGHAZI 2 fucked around with this message at 08:03 on Jun 21, 2015 |
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Jun 21, 2015 07:50
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Annointed posted:What are your guys' thoughts on the Salamander books, I've been eyeing them for a while and was wondering if they were worth the buy. I thought they were ok, a the bits about Salamander culture where pretty interesting and some of the fights they stumbled into were amusing. But after the second book it sort felt really disjointed, though I see on the BL site it was one of those series that was heavily pushing those "e book exclusives" so that probably didn't help. Maybe give the first one a read and see if you like it.  Definitely don't get the whole set in one, though.
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Jun 21, 2015 13:43
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Literally The Worst posted:I just finished the Night Lords omnibus and fuuuuuck Have you read Betrayer yet?
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Jun 21, 2015 21:05
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Fried Chicken posted:Have you read Betrayer yet? Yeah, I've read all of ADB's stuff besides this new Black Legion book.
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Jun 22, 2015 08:16
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Firstborn posted:If Miles Cameron hasn't written for Warhammer Fantasy yet, he should. Try his book The Red Knight. It's like Warhammer with the numbers filed off. Amazing gore-soaked fights with super detailed arms, armor, and tactics. A complex magic system based on a more metal version of catholic holy man stuff where Jesus uppercuts evil, and a refreshingly interesting look at how to be an rear end in a top hat on the sly with chivalry and get in barbs on your frenemies while bowing in their face and smirking underneath your helmet. It owns. Just popping in here to say thanks, Red Knight is incredibly engrossing and well-written.
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Jun 23, 2015 00:09
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Sulecrist posted:"The first third of Moby Dick didn't have enough white whale in it."
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Jun 23, 2015 18:52
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The Gregory Peck movie was good though.
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Jun 23, 2015 19:04
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<Grandpa Simpson voice> 'As was the style at the time'. Hugo's Les Miserables is equally full of distractions that a modern novel wouldn't have. Essays about the Paris sewer system, convents, etc. Not to mention a massive diversion into multiple chapters about the Battle of Waterloo that are almost entirely irrelevant to the plot.
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Jun 23, 2015 19:07
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What you're saying is they didn't have editors.
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Jun 23, 2015 19:13
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Deptfordx posted:<Grandpa Simpson voice> 'As was the style at the time'.
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Jun 23, 2015 20:23
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Riso posted:What you're saying is they didn't have editors. I think it's more a point of the evolution of the novel as a format, especially going back to the 18th/19th century there wasn't the same sort of hard distinction between novels and other forms of literature so many authors didn't see a problem with throwing in an encycopaedia entry on something they thought would be interesting or putting in a political pamphlet on one of their pet issues. Those were all things people read for edutainment and interest so why not throw them in together? Modern authors have either stopped doing that completely and strive to make sure everything in there serves the plot/builds the characters and world in some way or at least have gotten much savvier about putting it in. Of course success is highly variable.
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Jun 24, 2015 07:17
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Fried Chicken posted:Never read anything by Neal Stephenson, have you? Pffft. Stephenson has nothing on these guys. Hugo's digression goes on for (in my copy) 45 pages about the Battle of Waterloo. The first half of which is a description (with observations) by Hugo of what the battlefield looks like when he visits it 50 years later. Written of course not from a personal retrospective, but entirely in the third person, as was the fashion at the time.
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Jun 24, 2015 09:51
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Fried Chicken posted:Never read anything by Neal Stephenson, have you? Neal "Got a great idea for a book, no idea how to finish it mind." Stephenson?
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Jun 24, 2015 09:53
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Technically, just petering out in the last few pages is kinda' a way to finish a book. Just not a very good one. Edit: Oh and to drag the topic back to Black Library. I just read Rob Sanders "Adeptus Mechanicus: Skitarius". Hated it, bored from about a third of the way through, finished it out of stubborness. It wasn't even that bad, competent enough action. I just don't give a poo poo about robot men talking about the Omnissiah. I couldn't have cared less about a single protagonist. Unless your a Mechanus fanboy I wouldn't bother. Deptfordx fucked around with this message at 13:26 on Jun 24, 2015 |
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Jun 24, 2015 13:21
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Deptfordx posted:Pffft. Stephenson has nothing on these guys. Hugo's digression goes on for (in my copy) 45 pages about the Battle of Waterloo. The first half of which is a description (with observations) by Hugo of what the battlefield looks like when he visits it 50 years later. Written of course not from a personal retrospective, but entirely in the third person, as was the fashion at the time. hugo starts one of his novels with a detailed account of just how filthy rich the high nobility in Britain is hugo owns
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Jun 24, 2015 14:42
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like he writes "duke so-and-so owns such and such amounts of lands yielding him so and so many pounds a year. he lives in a palace and subsists entirely on grapes peeled by nubile young owmen" for page after page after page
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Jun 24, 2015 14:42
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Wasn't Hugo (and for that matter Dickens) paid by the word?
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Jun 24, 2015 17:30
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bunnyofdoom posted:Wasn't Hugo (and for that matter Dickens) paid by the word? I think the Hugo one is a myth. Les Miserables was sold at a publishing house auction. No idea about Dickens.
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Jun 24, 2015 18:39
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Dickens probably was, since he wrote serials that were later collected into novels. But some writers like to ramble.
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Jun 24, 2015 18:44
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berzerkmonkey posted:Dickens probably was, since he wrote serials that were later collected into novels. It's not like the people publishing his stories would have complained if he had deliberately waxed prolix. 'Oh, so this serial which is doubling our circulation, you'd like to make it longer? Well if you're sure it's necessary to the plot I'm sure we could oblige.'
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Jun 24, 2015 19:02
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Hugo's long digressions are miles better than long digressions that fantasy and sci-fi authors put in to try and ape that sort of book, mostly because they're entertainingly written and about weird or cool historical things that teach you stuff, rather than a really long retelling of the author's D&D campaign about wizards that don't exist.
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Jun 24, 2015 20:08
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Bob Smith posted:Hugo's long digressions are miles better than long digressions that fantasy and sci-fi authors put in to try and ape that sort of book, mostly because they're entertainingly written and about weird or cool historical things that teach you stuff, rather than a really long retelling of the author's D&D campaign about wizards that don't exist. But how can I get into the verisimilitude of this world if I don't know where that Staff of the Magi came from? 
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Jun 24, 2015 20:30
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Bob Smith posted:Hugo's long digressions are miles better than long digressions that fantasy and sci-fi authors put in to try and ape that sort of book, mostly because they're entertainingly written and about weird or cool historical things that teach you stuff, rather than a really long retelling of the author's D&D campaign about wizards that don't exist. What about the wizards that do exist?
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Jun 24, 2015 20:48
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Deptfordx posted:It's not like the people publishing his stories would have complained if he had deliberately waxed prolix. Dickens used to write himself into corners all the time. It's why his books so often end with some wealthy benefactor suddenly appearing in the 2nd to last chapter & spraying gold in all directions.
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Jun 24, 2015 21:04
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Ghost of Babyhead posted:Amazon has a listing for this: Aah, glad to see Abnett is concentrating on his literary legacy, rather than penning a sequel to boring old Pariah.
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Jun 24, 2015 21:06
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He needs to stop doing all these other series and just get on with more Gaunt. When is the Warmaster due?
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Jun 24, 2015 21:07
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Deptfordx posted:Technically, just petering out in the last few pages is kinda' a way to finish a book. Just not a very good one. I feel like any book that straight up has the name of the army as the selling point isn't gonna be terribly good. Ian Watson's Space Marine notwithstanding. Like a novel called "Astra Militarum: Cadians" isn't one I'd pick up. These books are obviously there to sell toys, but that's almost a little too on the nose. And tons of authors are paid by the word. All of Philip K. Dick's books were by the word, and he was able to write so much because he was just on amphetamines and scrambling out novel after novel. In his case it's not so much adding irrelevant details as it is throwing a hundred ideas at the wall and seeing what sticks.
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Jun 24, 2015 21:12
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I still want to see a Ciaphas Cain book where he really gets to grips with Chaos Space Marines. So sick of Orks, Tyrannids and loving Tau.
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Jun 24, 2015 21:24
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Pistol_Pete posted:I still want to see a Ciaphas Cain book where he really gets to grips with Chaos Space Marines. So sick of Orks, Tyrannids and loving Tau. One of the ones in the omnibus has him fight some Chaos Marines. I remember a scene where a platoon of Guardsmen are struggling to fight one Chaos Marine and he essentially duels the wounded Chaos dude and everyone sees him as this great hero for basically finishing a job thirty guys had started.
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Jun 24, 2015 21:37
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Deptfordx posted:I think the Hugo one is a myth. Les Miserables was sold at a publishing house auction. Dickens was not paid by the word (that's a myth too) but by the "part." A novel was "20 parts" of 3-4 chapters each, of a generally agreed-upon average word length, and it was released in 19 instalments (the last one was a double). Later in his career, though, he was basically the editor/owned the drat paper, so he wrote what he drat well pleased, but still kept to that basic format. Pistol_Pete posted:Dickens used to write himself into corners all the time. It's why his books so often end with some wealthy benefactor suddenly appearing in the 2nd to last chapter & spraying gold in all directions. I'll mostly disagree. It's basically his early novels that are not very plotted out. Pickwick Papers is a picaresque so it's just random "let's go do random stuff" and its most famous character (Sam Weller) doesn't show up 'til like halfway through. Oliver Twist was his first real novel and lacks some of the planning/cohesiveness of his later stuff. But even with Oliver Twist, it's a play on old romances, so of course the orphan is secretly a high-born whatever. But aside from that, he knew where he was going pretty well. Dickens' private letters and the working notes for his novels (if you have access to a university library, this book is so loving cool) also show he knew what was coming the whole time, though was only a couple numbers ahead in terms of having specific written-out outlines. If you look at the novels themselves, you can see this pretty well. You can't argue the "random" benefactor in, say, Great Expectations wasn't plotted out from the beginning, as it's the whole point of the novel. In other later novels like say Bleak House or Our Mutual Friend there are no real benefactors randomly showing up (maybe Jarndyce? but he's there at the opening) but holy poo poo there are a crazy # of plot threads that wrap up surprisingly nicely, and whose resolution you realize were clearly set up very early on.
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Jun 24, 2015 21:50
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It's been a long time but wasn't the plot driven in "Little Dorrit" by some magical inheritance that sprung elder Dorrit from the Marshalsea? I like Dickens but he leaves me with a strange bitterness that I haven't inherited a lost fortune yet.
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Jun 25, 2015 06:39
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I was reading the Night Dawn Trilogy by Peter F Hamilton. Never finished them as I learned more about how to have sex in his future in zero g conditions than how the plot was progressing. Each book was over 1100 pages but I'm sure it could have been 400 had he taken out all the sex.
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Jun 25, 2015 09:06
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Yudo posted:It's been a long time but wasn't the plot driven in "Little Dorrit" by some magical inheritance that sprung elder Dorrit from the Marshalsea? Yeah, but to be fair... that's happens towards the beginning or early mid part of the novel, and he squanders it more and more as the novel progresses, cuz he's an entitled oaf. It's hard to to argue that it was written to get Dickens out of a corner or something. Doesn't Amy also discover she's the rightful heir to a fortune right at the end... only to never tell anyone and just marry Arthur? In Our Mutual Friend Mr. Boffin also weirdly inherits a great bunch of money at the beginning, but by the end he's given it all up to the rightful inheritor (the main character who was set up that way in the first chapter, and it's pretty obvious what's going on the whole time). There are totally remarkable coincidences of familial and social connection in Dickens, and inheritors all over, I won't deny that. A Tale of Two Cities depends on the main character meeting an exact twin. Our Mutual Friend has the same deal going on. Bleak House is chock-full of random meetings-up and "oh actually this person knows this person and is the secret mother of this person," and it's got spontaneous combustion, to boot. But all the coincidences are often thematized or part of what gets the plot going, not just a way out of a corner because Dickens wrote in serial and didn't know how things would end: Bleak House posted:What connexion can there be between the place in Lincolnshire, the house in town, the Mercury in powder, and the whereabout of Jo the outlaw with the broom, who had that distant ray of light upon him when he swept the churchyard-step? What connexion can there have been between many people in the innumerable histories of this world who from opposite sides of great gulfs have, nevertheless, been very curiously brought together! There's probably an early novel like Barnaby Rudge or Dombey or something I'm forgetting where something contradicts what I'm saying, but blegh.
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Jun 25, 2015 11:42
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Yudo posted:I like Dickens but he leaves me with a strange bitterness that I haven't inherited a lost fortune yet. DirtyRobot posted:There's probably an early novel like Barnaby Rudge
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Jun 25, 2015 13:32
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The Black Library: continuity and narrative structure in the novels of Charles Dickens.
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Jun 26, 2015 10:33
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