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Slim, sporty, non morphium addict Göring would have fixed Germany and Europe without starting a war. I can feel it.
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Jun 24, 2015 19:58
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steinrokkan posted:Animals. Seems like those animals are being coerced rather than acting of their own volition. They all look malnourished. I knew they thought of gypsies, jews, and others as animals but I think they've gone way overboard with the concept.
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Jun 24, 2015 21:07
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JaucheCharly posted:Slim, sporty, non morphium addict Göring would have fixed Germany and Europe without starting a war. I can feel it. Isn't the proper WW2-era nomenclature for opiates "morphika/ca"? I thought this might be a good place to ask, since I've had this discussion with a friend.
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Jun 25, 2015 00:40
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http://imgur.com/gallery/EoQp72b you guys really oughta rip this apart
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Jun 25, 2015 03:28
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Kanine posted:http://imgur.com/gallery/EoQp72b  done
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Jun 25, 2015 03:33
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I'm pretty sure that having a picture of Legolas in your allegedly historical post is grounds for disqualification. Also having zero citations.
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Jun 25, 2015 03:33
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Kanine posted:http://imgur.com/gallery/EoQp72b That just makes me want to come up with bullshit WW2 facts, not that that hasn't already been done before.
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Jun 25, 2015 03:34
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Jobbo_Fett posted:That just makes me want to come up with bullshit WW2 facts, not that that hasn't already been done before. It's really easy, just open the Company of Heroes 2 forums and start copy-pasting.
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Jun 25, 2015 03:37
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Ensign Expendable posted:It's really easy, just open the Company of Heroes 2 forums and start copy-pasting. "The Tiger tank was the most numerous and deadly tank in the Nazi Arsenal" *Photo of a Panther* "The Americans frequently performed bayonet charges against enemy positions in North Africa because they still followed World War 1 doctrine" *Photo of a Lee-Enfield No.5 with attached bayonet*
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Jun 25, 2015 03:43
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Ahh, things Americans believe?
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Jun 25, 2015 03:50
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Taiping Tianguo Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 Part 4 Part 5 Part 6 Part 7 Part 8 Part 9 Part 10 Outside of the massacre at the inner city, and the usual suicides of upper class citizens and women, the city of Nanjing is occupied in an orderly fashion, and the Taiping soldiery obey their orders not to harm the local citizens, who had been instructed to mark their doors with the character of shun(顺), for obedience. Rape, looting, and similar crimes are punishable by decapitation. A common story goes that the Taiping still were considering a move north to Beijing, but that two days after the city's fall, Yang Xiuqing spoke with the captain of the boat bringing him to the city. The captain, a native of Henan, explained that the narrow water ways of Henan would be impossible to traverse with the numbers the Taiping now had. Northern plans are shelved, and two weeks after the fall of the city, Hong Xiuquan and his entourage entered the city, no longer Nanjing, but Tianjing, the heavenly capital (I'll continue to use Nanjing for the most part). The Taiping had experience with civil administration in the occupations of Yongan and Wuchang, and many of their earlier policies would be maintained and reach full expression at Nanjing. An Army Becomes a State Taiping civil organization will be identical to their military organization. Groups of 25 commanded by a sergeant are organized and housed together, and civilian work will be regimented like military functions. Land and housing are nationalized. Industries are grouped into corps, or ying, such as the bookmaker's, the carpenter's, and the embroiderer's corps. White collar labor is also needed. Those members of the educated classes who have not fled will be pressed into service as secretaries, clerks, or accountants for the generally uneducated Taiping officers. The Taiping will encourage work in communal factories as opposed to cottage industry. Private property is phased out, and the goods from these common factories are gathered in warehouses and distributed to the people according to need. Private trade is prohibited within the city but tolerated outside the walls, where a bustling market springs up just outside the gates. Trade outside Taiping territory, including with western powers, is permitted basically without restriction. Crafty merchants get Taiping blessing to raise money for the kingdom by selling goods downriver, and then set up networks smuggling men and women seeking to escape Taiping territory. It's likely the Taiping tacitly permit this, as many of those who flee will be soft handed gentry and foot bound women, of little economic use to the kingdom. D&D.txt It is in 1853 that the Taiping publish "The Land System of the Heavenly Dynasty", a tract outlining how society will be organized in the coming era of great peace. Under this plan, all people, male and female, will be granted land, which will be graded according to productivity to ensure everyone gets around the same amount of grain. These plots will be grouped in sets of 25, with a chapel for each, and each group will elect their own leader. The people will keep enough food to feed their families, with the surplus collected and distributed as needed to alleviate famine in other areas. In event of disaster, the government will move people to unaffected areas. All people will train in secondary trades so as to keep busy in the off season and continue to contribute to the sacred treasury. Economists can find plenty to criticize in the program. I'm not sure what the economically optimal Gini number is, but I'm not sure it's zero. The decentralized, subsistence level agrarian utopia is incompatible with other Taiping plans for economic modernization and centralization. Additionally, it's unclear why peasants would continue to produce surpluses they would not be allowed to keep. But in its goals, it is as revolutionary a program as had ever been proposed. In far off Germany, a writer by the name of Karl Marx will be greatly impressed by the Taiping's ambition, even though their immediate jump to full communism makes a hash of his theory of the historical stages of economic development. The land system is never implemented on any detectible scale, and debate rages to this day as to why. The imperial narrative is that the whole thing was from the first just lies to mislead the people. Some think that the Taiping eventually realized the flaws in the plan and quietly backed off. The most common explanation is that from birth to death, the Taiping were in a war for survival. They simply never had the breathing room to perform the census and other tasks required to implement the system. In practice, they will maintain similar land practices as the Qing in conquered areas, but agreement seems unanimous that Taiping taxes were lower and peasants better treated. Comparisons of pre and postwar records show much greater land ownership and economic independence for the peasantry, but it's hard to distinguish the effect of Taiping policies from the depopulation that would economically affect the peasantry like the Black Death affected those in Europe. Hello, ladies Women will be treated similarly to the men in the heavenly city. They are legally equal to men, no longer the property of husbands or fathers. Women have the same property rights as men. Dowry is forbidden. Organized into groups of 25 like the men, women will be put to work. The practice of sexual segregation will continue, much to the chagrin of those who had been promised it would end when the earthly paradise was established. Some Guangxi men and women desert for the first time. (Don't think that you could just go gay. Homosexing is also forbidden.)This policy will be maintained until 1855, when families are finally allowed to reunite (single women at this time are assigned husbands at random  ). Some women will fight in the Taiping ranks. Distinguishable from the men by their yellow turbans (as opposed to red), they are reputed to be every bit as fierce (Zeng Guofan will call them "big foot hillbilly witches.") Others will perform work digging fortifications, sharpening stakes, or assisting in the fields. Some women are given supervisory positions in civil administration. This is all revolutionary change from the traditional ideal of "women do not go past the gate." The appeal is lost on the local women, however. Many haven't done any heavy manual labor in their lives.Their bound feet make it impossible for them to work in the fields, and they suffer tremendously before their female Guangxi supervisors realize that they are not malingerers, but literally crippled. They are moved to the embroidery corps, but labor is not their only concern. Being separated from their families is an incredibly painful experience for these women, as an entire life spent in the domestic sphere has been upended. In theory, the Taiping offer much more freedom and opportunity to women, but there is no practical way for a woman raised in the old system to transition to the new. All Under Heaven There is no separate religious organization in the Heavenly Kingdom. Church and state are one and the same. The heavenly kingdom is not a metaphor to the Taiping, their state is earthly territory under heaven's jurisdiction. Weekly religious services are mandatory. Offerings of food are left on the altar, incense is lit, and the Taiping doxology is recited and songs are sung. Long sermons are then given, exhorting the people to obey the heavenly commandments and labor to build heaven's kingdom on earth. The eucharist is unknown to the Taiping, but they do have the sacrament of baptism. The Taiping print thousands of copies of three testaments of the bible, distributing free of charge to the people the old testament of the heavenly father, the new testament of the heavenly elder brother, and the newest testament of the heavenly king. The holy trinity is stated in their doxology, but otherwise explicitly denied in Hong's writings. He reasons that if the Heavenly Father is God, and Jesus is God, that is now more than one God and that doesn't make any sense. The role of the Holy Spirit in Taiping theology is even more muddled, at one point becoming a title given to East King Yang Xiuqing. Modern biblical fundamentalists would do well to note how impossible it is to take the texts in isolation and arrive at something identical to the actual practice of western Christianity. The Ten Heavenly Commandments are central to Taiping ideology and are rigidly enforced. Taiping criminal justice is harsh. Minor crimes are punished by wearing the cangue, severe offenses, such as adultery, by death. Opium addicts would be granted a few months to kick the habit, then executed for a second offense. Slavery, prostitution, footbinding, and other immoral practices are banned. There was some kind of court and judicial system, but little detail of how it functioned has survived. Summary justice was not uncommon, per western reports. The works of Confucius are banned under the Taiping. They promise that the ban will be lifted once the books have been edited and new versions produced with the sage's many errors corrected. Yet at the same time, there is an unmistakable Confucian influence on both Taiping government and religion. Confucian thought has so thoroughly penetrated the thinking of scholars like Hong that it inevitably reemerges, as hidden substrate embedded beneath the new Christian doctrine. A perfect example is the 4th commandment to honor thy father and mother, which in Taiping hands will end up carrying all of the baggage of Confucian filial piety. Buddhist and Taoist thought also influence Taiping beliefs, in part because the western translators of the bible had no terms for metaphysical concepts available to them except those taken from Buddhist and Taoist texts. It would be going too far to call the Taiping faith syncretic, but there is plenty of unrecognized influence from the same traditional religions whose idols the Taiping relentlessly smash.* Floppy Wangs There is one gaping hole in the egalitarian ideology of the Taiping- the wangs themselves. One traditional Confucian concept the Taiping follow is that the rules are not and should not be the same for the ruler as for the ruled. They live in enormous palaces with hundreds of servants (palaces are also provided for the families of the deceased South King and West King.)In contrast to their blueballed followers, the wangs are permitted (in Shi Dakai's case, required) to have multiple wives, with Hong having 32 at his entrance to Nanjing. A modification to traditional practice is performed in which wives are not formally separated into primary and secondary ranks, but it nevertheless seems at odds with the rest of their sexual and gender policies.  The East King's palace, now the Taiping History Museum The autocratic, feudal power structure of the all powerful wangs is effective so far, but at odds with the democratic power structures being established under the land system. It's also dependent very much on the individual wangs themselves, lacking the bureaucratic depth of the Qing system. The treasures they amass and the life of luxury they begin to lead will have an effect on the Taiping leadership, gradually dulling the single minded fervor that led them against all odds to triumph in Nanjing. Hong in particular will pay attention to affairs of state for a few months, before gradually retreating into a life divided between religion, poetry, and poontang. Both Christian and communist historians will later point to moral degeneracy as a cause in the eventual Taiping decline. *One awkward encounter occurs with the Catholic "Heavenly Lord" religion, which has a church in Nanjing. They get off to a bad start when the Taiping smash statues of saints that they assume are idols. Things improve once the Taiping realize "these guys are Christian, just like us!" They then ask the Heavenly Lord followers to acknowledge the new revelation of the Heavenly King. Most decline to do so, but the Taiping just kind of shrug their shoulders and leave the Catholics unmolested from that point on. Next update- we take a look at the Yong Ying.
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Jun 25, 2015 03:55
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My understanding is that most medieval marriages took place at 16, and they were arraigned by scrolling through lists of the most eligible bachelors/bachelorettes of Europe looking for geniuses.
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Jun 25, 2015 03:55
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sullat posted:My understanding is that most medieval marriages took place at 16, and they were arraigned by scrolling through lists of the most eligible bachelors/bachelorettes of Europe looking for geniuses. or redheads
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Jun 25, 2015 03:59
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sullat posted:My understanding is that most medieval marriages took place at 16, and they were arraigned by scrolling through lists of the most eligible bachelors/bachelorettes of Europe looking for geniuses. Hogge Wild posted:or redheads Or juicy inheritances and relatives prone to assassination.
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Jun 25, 2015 04:47
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sullat posted:My understanding is that most medieval marriages took place at 16, and they were arraigned by scrolling through lists of the most eligible bachelors/bachelorettes of Europe looking for geniuses.  I was just playing CK today and getting frustrated with this.
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Jun 25, 2015 05:09
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Kanine posted:http://imgur.com/gallery/EoQp72b Even a 51st-century archaeologist with no knowledge whatsoever of life before the year 4,000 could poke holes into this. Bullets have "no value" over arrows (conveniently fails to mention the higher cost of arrows). 21st century warfare facts! Kevlar was nearly impervious to all attacks, especally rifles Nearly 95% of casualties were inflicted by a Drone, the flying robots after an army's control of the air was broken Teenage pregnancy was rare than many think, especially for nobles, the normal childbearing age was 25*. Ecxept on MTV for some reason, where it was 16. Most Commissioned officers were neither incompetant nor cowardly, they were trained to be good at their jobs so obviously they always were The average rifle was a terrible personal weapon, they were always deployed en mass and few gunmen hit what they aimed at The airplane required years of practice and could fly like a bird, but a single flight was worth more than a soldier's knife Machine gunners had to be some of the biggest and most muscular men in the army, to handle the massive recoil of a postmodern machine gun Attacking tanks drove through storms of bullets like rain, because Iraqi (muslim) guns were too weak to pierce steel and explosive reactive armor Many soldiers, suffered from extreme PTSD, and their governments didn't do enough to help them (  )Most wars were either religous differences between groups of voters, or business transactions of the nobility for land and oil. Honor, rightousness and democracy had litle or to nothing to do with it. Grenades had no value over artillery except the shape, for nearly 200 years, grenades and mines were used to a minor degree, and artillery stil had monopoly on power, force, range, and rate of fire Tank armor could easily block rockets, contrary to public opinion, rockets were never able to easily slay tanks, they were just easy to use and cheap to make compared to tanks The Germans were the finest soldiers in all of europe for over a century and invented repeating rifles, jets, finalized the blitzkrieg style, and conqoured lands from Russia to Africa The French Empire contained some of the brightest military minds of the postmodern ages, they had a battle doctrine for every foe possible, according to them, Iraqis were the smartest and, Vietnamese (Asians) were the Feircest MOST POSTMODERN BATTLES WERE NOT EXCITING PITCHED BATTLES LIKE BLACK HAWK DOWN OR TROPIC THUNDER, NEARLY ALL OF THEM WERE COMPLETLY ONE SIDED MASSACRES, Your aver Your average postmodern machine pistol (EI, a "Machine gun" was designed for aiming and shooting, after tanks became more popular in the mid 1950s, almost no one carried these guns into battle anymore, and relied on submachine guns, battle rifles, miniguns, assault rifles, pistols, and shotguns instead Many people call machine pistols "Machineguns" while in fact a machinegun is a mounted weapon and assault rifles never existed during World War II
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Jun 25, 2015 05:48
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Chamale posted:Ecxept For some drat reason, this made me laugh most of all.
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Jun 25, 2015 06:01
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Chamale posted:Even a 51st-century archaeologist with no knowledge whatsoever of life before the year 4,000 could poke holes into this. Bullets have "no value" over arrows (conveniently fails to mention the higher cost of arrows). Credit where credit's due. He said arrows cost more than spears. Unsourced and vague, but still.
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Jun 25, 2015 07:28
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P-Mack posted:"big foot hillbilly witch"
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Jun 25, 2015 09:11
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Jobbo_Fett posted:That just makes me want to come up with bullshit WW2 facts, not that that hasn't already been done before. Did they start with Krojanty, Schleswig-Holstein or Gleiwitz?
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Jun 25, 2015 09:58
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Tevery Best posted:Did they start with Krojanty, Schleswig-Holstein or Gleiwitz? How about wojtek? 
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Jun 25, 2015 10:04
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Xerxes17 posted:How about wojtek? Two years later and 90% true 
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Jun 25, 2015 10:06
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100 Years Ago I have to hold my nose and mention the Force Publique in passing. Thankfully for the moment we can ignore them and focus on Colonel von Lettow-Vorbeck's latest wheeze of invading Rhodesia. Sir Ian Hamilton has been reminded that Suvla Bay exists, and landing men there is looking more and more promising by the day. Kenneth Best continues trying to out-Barthas Barthas, and General Joffre officially ends the Second Battle of Artois, the last major action on the Western Front until September. Don't worry, there's plenty to keep us occupied until then.
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Jun 25, 2015 12:55
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Trin Tragula posted:100 Years Ago you're an absolute trooper for keeping this stuff up, you know
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Jun 25, 2015 13:25
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The First Crusade put European armies in the (now) Middle East. What kind of weapons and armour were the respective sides using?
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Jun 25, 2015 17:31
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Kanine posted:http://imgur.com/gallery/EoQp72b most are not really wrong, or are half right and get the important details wrong. it's just presented in the single most irritating and juvenile way possible. like imagine someone making image macros stating MOST UNION STATES WERE STILL REALLY RACIST over a picture of like a poor black family in the 1870s edit nevermind i actually read more then first 3 and lol WoodrowSkillson fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Jun 25, 2015 |
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Jun 25, 2015 17:34
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WoodrowSkillson posted:edit nevermind i actually read more then first 3 and lol
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Jun 25, 2015 17:42
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HEY GAL posted:the gun ones are triggering me hard its almost art how they take a kernel of truth like "some plate armor stopped early bullets at long ranges" and go hog wild with it
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Jun 25, 2015 17:45
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Could someone educate me on American Civil War firearms, please? EDIT: more specifically, how much they differ from Napoleonic rifles and muskets?
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Jun 25, 2015 17:47
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WoodrowSkillson posted:its almost art how they take a kernel of truth like "some plate armor stopped early bullets at long ranges" and go hog wild with it
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Jun 25, 2015 17:48
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Tevery Best posted:Could someone educate me on American Civil War firearms, please? It depends on what weapons you're talking about. At the lower end of the spectrum they were identical. The confederacy in particular had a lot of older guns. The ones manufactured in the last couple of decades were a full generation ahead of the napoleonic weapons. First off, in the early 19th century rifles were an extremely niche specialty item only used by skirmishers and marksmen, and even then sparingly. The development of the minie ball allowed the use of muzzle loading rifles on a wide basis because they reduced the fouling issues that plagued rifled barrels. On the whole they were much more accurate and significantly higher velocity than a typical Napoleonic musket which increased their lethality (especially at range) greatly. edit: the advances are even more profound if you look at cannons. One of the things that really hurt the confederacy was their reliance on smoothbore cannons, while many union artillerists had rifled guns. Same issue as the longarms, only magnified. Being in an artillery duel really sucks when you can't reach the enemy. Plus, the union had far superior fuses for their artillery. edit x2: pistols also advanced hugely. In the early 19th century revolvers were an expensive novelty, while by the 1860s they were being mass produced relatively cheaply. edit x3: this all ignores the developments that took place either shortly before the war or during the war. Repeating rifles, metallic cartridges, etc. A late civil war battlefield has more in common with the Battle of the Somme than Waterloo. Cyrano4747 fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Jun 25, 2015 |
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Jun 25, 2015 17:51
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The main difference between Napoleonic and ACW weapons is the extensive use of the Minie bullet within the ACW. It basically meant that the rifles used in the ACW were easier to load but still be able to fire accurately even when gunked up: the way that minie bullets worked allowed them to slide within the barrel more easily and then expand to grip the rifling when it was actually fired. During Napoleonic times you basically had to fight against the built-up gunk because the ball/bullet had to be big enough to grip the rifling. So basically in the ACW, rifles saw a lot more use and had comparable firing rates to smoothbores. The issue with completely being able to say what the differences were was that there was a real grab-bag of different weapons being used in the ACW. Weaponry wasn't standardized and especially early on, was based on what either you had in your home (hence a lot of old smoothbores saw use in the Confederacy especially) and if the leader of the company was rich enough. Repeater rifles were used as well, but they weren't usually issued by the Union army and tended to be bought on an individual basis by individuals who armed companies/etc (don't believe the myth that the Union was willingly avoiding buying repeating rifles and could have saved lives if they did and blah blah blah, it's bullshit). The bayonet was also used in an interesting way: reported wounds/deaths by bayonet were actually very low and they were only really used for the psychological effect. The hand to hand combat hardly happened, either the defenders would run before it or they just surrendered.
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Jun 25, 2015 17:56
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Here's a bit of trivia that I love because I'm really, really immature: the French developed a standardized system of artillery guns that incorporated a successful mechanism for sealing the breeches of breech-loading field guns (to prevent gas and burning gunpowder escaping through the wrong end of the gun) in the late 19th century and named it after the mechanism's developer. It was called the Système de Bange. I can only assume I'm mispronouncing Monsieur de Bange's name, because otherwise it's just too perfect. Vincent Van Goatse fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Jun 25, 2015 |
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Jun 25, 2015 18:06
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The buildup of soot and poo poo in black powder guns is the direct cause for the terrible accuracy of smoothbore firearms. It gets harder and harder to shove a bullet down the barrel as solid waste products build up, so soldiers were issued quite undersized bullets that would be easy to shove down after a dozen shots. Because of the very poor fit of the bullet to the barrel, it would come out with something other than a straight trajectory and be liable to miss a human at 100 yards or more. Minie balls were conical and had a gap in the base (early ones had a metal or wood plug, but these were found to be unnecessary). They would be undersized to shove down the barrel, but the expanding combustion gases of firing gunpowder would blow out the base and cause it to tightly grip the rifling. Bam, you now have a muzzleloading rifle that's as fast to fire as old smoothbore muskets. The Confederacy suffered the most from irregular arms due to the general situation of their existence. The Union states held the majority of the industry and non-agricultural economy of the United States, so the Confederacy seceded and promptly lost most of their ability to do war. Along with home-brought weapons, they had contracts with foreign countries to provide arms (the second most common weapon for both sides of the entire war after the Springfield 1861 was the Enfield Pattern 1853; both could use the same .58 caliber ammunition). They also converted old smoothbore muskets to rifled muskets and even tried to convert flintlocks to percussion caps; not every smoothbore flintlock was converted and more than one War of 1812 relic saw service unmodified. The South had multiple factories up trying to produce copies of Springfield rifled musket designs. The third most widely used rifle in the Civil War was the Austrian Lorenz, but it was a piece of poo poo. Not due to any problems with the rifle, mind you; it was one of the finest quality weapons when built properly. The main problem (along with being a non-standard .54 caliber) was that they were produced with cottage industry methods and thus had wildly varying quality, with some guns being so uselessly inaccurate that they got dumped. The South also tried boring out the guns to let them use .58 caliber ammo, but not all of them did a very good job.
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Jun 25, 2015 18:17
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Speaking of Civil War guns, was the LeMat revolver any good or was it the Taurus Judge of its day?
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Jun 25, 2015 18:23
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The Lone Badger posted:If you have an entire army isn't it called 'taxation' rather than 'banditry'? If I remember that episode right, another army was raised just to hunt them down and then they lost. The winners then continued to call it "banditry" since they won and could do this. Luckily the second army successfully demobilized without flooding the countryside with (too) many new bandits.
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Jun 25, 2015 18:29
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I always think it's fascinating that the American Civil War started out as a war at least somewhat reminiscent of the Napoleonic wars, but four years later you have armies using trains and telegraphs for rapid movement and communication, ironclad battleships, submarine warfare, trench warfare, repeating rifles, etc.
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Jun 25, 2015 18:32
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:Speaking of Civil War guns, was the LeMat revolver any good or was it the Taurus Judge of its day? Unlike the Judge, the LeMat actually has a proper rifled barrel so it can hit things with bullets and a proper smoothbore barrel so the buckshot doesn't spiral into a doughnut pattern. From what little I can find of "reviews" of the time, it wasn't the most accurate but pretty good at close range.
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Jun 25, 2015 18:35
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And, of course, there was also the Gatling gun that some limited use at Petersburg and the closing stages of the war. Although, again, it was bought by individuals rather than something issued by the government.
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Jun 25, 2015 18:39
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Tomn posted:Wouldn't the German economy have flamed out and imploded if they did that? On account of being geared up pretty much entirely for war and not being at all sustainable without war plunder. Which isn't really all that sustainable either, but hey. From my understanding Germany never really did the "War economy" thing to the extent that allied nations did.
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Jun 25, 2015 19:02
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