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Pact seems pretty strong, I don;t know if it's good enough for standard but maybe. It depends on what kind of cards are around to get rid of it. If there are cards that kill it that are good answers in general then you just spend a card to get rid of it and you still 5 for 2 your opponent. If they print a cheap way to donate it, which I'm sure they won't, this could be a cool combo card. I'm not sure if this card, even with all of it advantages, is good enough to beat Siege Rhinos and Ojutais.
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Jun 25, 2015 19:54
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This card doesn't stand up to Siege Rhino at all but that's basically the top of the food chain.
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Jun 25, 2015 19:57
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While I do love this card (and I'm sure I will never play it in any format) I think this card slightly misses on favor, because while I get there are 4 options to symbolize 4 demons and 4 mana - Liliana should have gotten 4 boons and then died. Here's how I would have made it At the beginning of your upkeep choose one that hasn't been chosen, if you cannot, you lose the game -drain life for 4 -mind rot -divination -tutor/scry 4/return a creature card from graveyard to hand/each opponent sacrifices a creature/make zombie tokens/some other black ability. The Nastier Nate fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Jun 25, 2015 |
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Jun 25, 2015 20:04
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Griselbrand was like lol she could've gotten a necro out of me yet she just asked for a divination. But Lilliana got the last lol.
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Jun 25, 2015 20:08
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I can't really tell what the draft archetypes are going to be in this format besides picking the best card in a vacuum every time. Maybe mono colored is going to be the way to go just following whatever rare you get in the first pack. I don't mind the drop in power level as much considering the last set was all about dragons. Maybe the goal is a weaker standard format when the rotation happens.
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Jun 25, 2015 20:13
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Lets Pickle posted:Pact seems pretty strong, I don;t know if it's good enough for standard but maybe. It depends on what kind of cards are around to get rid of it. If there are cards that kill it that are good answers in general then you just spend a card to get rid of it and you still 5 for 2 your opponent. If they print a cheap way to donate it, which I'm sure they won't, this could be a cool combo card. I'm not sure if this card, even with all of it advantages, is good enough to beat Siege Rhinos and Ojutais.  
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Jun 25, 2015 20:13
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Now find a thing to tap it
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Jun 25, 2015 20:18
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TheKingofSprings posted:Now find a thing to tap it Gideon's in this core set. I think we'll have that covered in some way or another.
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Jun 25, 2015 20:23
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TheKingofSprings posted:Now find a thing to tap it And get your opponent to play an enchantment
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Jun 25, 2015 20:25
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Every green deck plays Courser, and Convoke is a thing.
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Jun 25, 2015 20:26
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The Nastier Nate posted:While I do love this card (and I'm sure I will never play it in any format) I think this card slightly misses on favor, because while I get there are 4 options to symbolize 4 demons and 4 mana - Liliana should have gotten 4 boons and then died. Here's how I would have made it Tutor would just let you search up your Erase or what have you. Comedy option: Give it Shroud.
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Jun 25, 2015 20:26
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You know the red burn spell that can't be countered by spells or abilities from a couple of pages ago, does that beat hexproof or does the hexproof stop it even being countered?
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Jun 25, 2015 20:27
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AceClown posted:You know the red burn spell that can't be countered by spells or abilities from a couple of pages ago, does that beat hexproof or does the hexproof stop it even being targeted in the first place?
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Jun 25, 2015 20:27
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Or turn it into a creature. Every Standard deck plays creatures.
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Jun 25, 2015 20:27
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you can't target a thing w/ hexproof and if it gains hexproof it's an illegal target so the spell is countered by the rules
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Jun 25, 2015 20:31
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AceClown posted:You know the red burn spell that can't be countered by spells or abilities from a couple of pages ago, does that beat hexproof or does the hexproof stop it even being countered? It doesn't beat hexproof any which way, even if the thing gets hexproof after being targeted. That's why it says "can't be countered by spells or abilities", it can still be countered by the rules of the game, e.g. the one that says a spell is countered if it tries to resolve and no longer has a valid target.
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Jun 25, 2015 20:31
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the rules have all the good counterspells these days
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Jun 25, 2015 20:31
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Esper Enchantment Control feat. Starfield of Nyx, Demonic Pact, and Daring Thief/Shifting Loyalties
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Jun 25, 2015 20:32
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It's the same way you can counter an Abrupt Decay by giving your thing hexproof or protection from green or black.
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Jun 25, 2015 20:33
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The most stylish way to counter an Abrupt Decay is Cytoshape copying something with CMC >= 4
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Jun 25, 2015 20:36
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Entropic posted:Tutor would just let you search up your Erase or what have you. Yea, tutor would have been a bad idea, but making 2 2/2 zombie tokens is very flavorful and would push this into constructed (or even limited) playability. Additional comedy option: give it hexproof and "if demonic pact leaves the battlefield, lose the game"
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Jun 25, 2015 20:36
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It should make a 5/5 demon flyer
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Jun 25, 2015 20:38
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Irony Be My Shield posted:It should make a 5/5 demon flyer None of the demons actually fight for Liliana. What it should do is bring a creature back from the dead, I think
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Jun 25, 2015 20:48
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The flavor doesn't match because it's literally the card from YMTC with tiny modifications. The YMTC submission was "Destroy target creature, draw 2 cards and lose 2 life, _________________, or you lose the game." They just filled in the 3rd ability, replaced kill a creature with drain life (so it works even if your opponent has no creatures in play), and removed the life loss from the card draw.
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Jun 25, 2015 20:55
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Roshambo posted:I can't really tell what the draft archetypes are going to be in this format besides picking the best card in a vacuum every time. Maybe mono colored is going to be the way to go just following whatever rare you get in the first pack. You must be new to core sets.
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Jun 25, 2015 20:55
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I hate hexproof
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Jun 25, 2015 20:55
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TheKingofSprings posted:None of the demons actually fight for Liliana. Yeah, the 4th mode should probably be Reanimate proper. She did make a pact with 4 demons, she might as well get 4 spells before they come to collect her soul? FWIW Voidmage husher is another card that can counter the lose the game ability. There are a good number of ways around it in standard, and in Modern, the 4th ability is trivial to solve. the card's real problem is that it is just not strong enough to merit a 4 drop. Would it be playable as is for 2 mana?
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Jun 25, 2015 20:56
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rabidsquid posted:This card doesn't stand up to Siege Rhino at all but that's basically the top of the food chain. I think this is the most important thing. On Rhino you're getting one of the modes immediately and a 4/5 body for the same mana cost. Having to wait until your next turn to even get anything from it makes pact absolutely brutal
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Jun 25, 2015 21:04
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Gensuki posted:Yeah, the 4th mode should probably be Reanimate proper. She did make a pact with 4 demons, she might as well get 4 spells before they come to collect her soul? It would be insane and very Decayable at 2 mana.
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Jun 25, 2015 21:14
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Gensuki posted:Yeah, the 4th mode should probably be Reanimate proper. She did make a pact with 4 demons, she might as well get 4 spells before they come to collect her soul? At 2 mana, you could hit it with your own abrupt decays/run dromoka's command to get rid of it after you've drawn 2 and they've discarded 2 for 2 mana. It'd be kind of combo-y still, but it'd definitely be a powerful card. Voidmage Husher doesn't do it though - it's a triggered ability, not an activated ability. Voidslime or Trickbind counter the trigger, but they're awful. The mythical quicken/day's undoing deck might like it, since it can end the turn before the lose the game trigger happens.
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Jun 25, 2015 21:20
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Gensuki posted:FWIW Voidmage husher is another card that can counter the lose the game ability. Voidmage Husher says "activated ability". EFB.
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Jun 25, 2015 21:21
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Obviously worth running along with Stifle 
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Jun 25, 2015 21:23
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I might be interested if it was Voidmage Hesher but like come on
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Jun 25, 2015 21:23
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Continually use Brago, King Eternal to blink Demonic Pact, so it resets every turn allowing for a free pick of the three? Or give the card to an opponent with Zedruu?
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Jun 25, 2015 21:25
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Oraculum Animi posted:Continually use Brago, King Eternal to blink Demonic Pact, so it resets every turn allowing for a free pick of the three? Or give the card to an opponent with Zedruu? Would be cool if Brago or Zedruu were black. (Yeah, yeah. They don't have to be your commander, but what's the point otherwise?)
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Jun 25, 2015 21:30
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Maybe I'm wrong here but I'm pretty sure you choose the mode for that garbage card on resolution. So even if you Stifle/Trickbind/whatever the 4th trigger you just die on your next upkeep because you still haven't chosen to lose the game yet. And man, they just didn't put any effort into this set did they? I haven't even seen a card I'd play in commander except maybe the stupid 6/5 in a Riku deck.
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Jun 25, 2015 22:01
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suicidesteve posted:Maybe I'm wrong here but I'm pretty sure you choose the mode for that garbage card on resolution. So even if you Stifle/Trickbind/whatever the 4th trigger you just die on your next upkeep because you still haven't chosen to lose the game yet. I thought this too but IIRC with modal templates the choices are made are made as the trigger/spell is put on the stack. Like Cabal Therapy is the classic example of a card where the choices are made during resolution but like with Commands or Charms you pick your modes as you put the spell on the stack rather than during resolution and they are modal spells.
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Jun 25, 2015 22:03
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I am enjoying these spoilers and feel no guilt about that fact to boot.
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Jun 25, 2015 22:24
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Ramos posted:I am enjoying these spoilers and feel no guilt about that fact to boot.  Honestly, when was the last time a Core Set was exciting? Core sets are almost never exciting.
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Jun 25, 2015 22:26
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Count Bleck posted:
They should bring back white borders for core sets.
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