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I was about to say, that one's easy because you just dissect a spider or something.
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Jun 24, 2015 14:32
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DJ Dizzy posted:I have no idea. Maybe just to achieve archmastery in the first place. And the Mind one, I do mean an actual Third Eye, as in the mystical Third Eye, so life wouldn't be able to whip one up. As Threshold Seekings, I dig the symbolism for Life and Mind. I'd add another possibility for Death, perhaps less rare but more dangerous to confront: the heart of a death-god with the aspect of the death of blindness or ignorance. The deathmask of a geist of drowning in darkness, for example, or the essence of a cthonian unborn with eyes sewn shut, which strips the knowledge of that of which it speaks from listeners.
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Jun 24, 2015 15:03
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I dont know anything about Geist, except they deal with dead stuff. My main reason for the Golconda vampire thing, is that I think it's an aspect of the mythology that hasn't been anywhere near explored enough. As for the Cthonian and the death-god, I could do the Cthonian aswell, but that would work just aswell as a Spell Quint with some pretty severe memory loss and false memories, perhaps on the nationwide scale. Dunno about the god though, because to me, a god implies near all-mightiness, although I guess once you reach archmastery as a mage, you are pretty much playing with that kind of power anyway.
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Jun 24, 2015 15:25
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'God' is a term commonly used for extremely powerful (but not omnipotent) spirits. They'll be tough as poo poo, sure, but not unstoppable.
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Jun 24, 2015 15:28
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never mind
Mexcillent fucked around with this message at 15:47 on Jun 24, 2015 |
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Jun 24, 2015 15:36
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Ferrinus posted:If I recall correctly, it wasn't a particular spell so much as the broad trappings and practices of all the various Traditions in 2E. Some writer, I guess Brucato, was worried that too-accurate descriptions of magical rituals and paraphernalia might lead to unintentional spellcasting at the game table, and that's why the Traditions were extremely light on real-world historical detail and tended to come off as kind of generic, mythologized versions of themselves. It was Revised that started working to tie the Traditions more closely to actual historical traditions. Now that you mention it, I found the description of
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Jun 24, 2015 16:33
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DJ Dizzy posted:I dont know anything about Geist, except they deal with dead stuff. My main reason for the Golconda vampire thing, is that I think it's an aspect of the mythology that hasn't been anywhere near explored enough. As for the Cthonian and the death-god, I could do the Cthonian aswell, but that would work just aswell as a Spell Quint with some pretty severe memory loss and false memories, perhaps on the nationwide scale. Dunno about the god though, because to me, a god implies near all-mightiness, although I guess once you reach archmastery as a mage, you are pretty much playing with that kind of power anyway. Eh, as Mors says, I just meant "death god" as in "some powerful and symbolic deathly thing." There isn't a separate class of beings called "death gods," there's just high-Rank inhuman ghosts, cthonians, maybe supernal Stygians, etc. Geister aren't the PCs from Geist, they're the things that make deals with the PCs to give them their template. They're effectively ghosts with some traits more reminiscent of spirits, powerful enough to grow less human and begin to conceptually embody causes of death. I dig trying to give Golconda more of a mythology, but I don't think an archmaster seeking a vampire in Golconda to burn for fuel really accomplishes that much. It's a task that doesn't really require learning much about Golconda, the behaviors that engender it, or what a vampire who has achieved it looks like psychologically and metaphysically, because the wizards don't actually need to talk to or interact with the vampire much once they find him, they just need to gank him. So if you're burning something for fuel, something alien and powerful feels more the way to go, while Golconda may be more interesting in a game where vampires have more of a presence than as a source of materials and information. On the other hand, you don't need to strip the soul from a vampire in Golconda and burn it for fuel to gain something valuable from them. Maybe Golconda grants some wisdom into the hungry darkness. Maybe travelling into the vampire's Oneiros may reveal pathways into strange and distant realms. Maybe you just need a draught of the vampire's blood, freely offered. Anything that focuses on negotiation and parley works well for exploring Golconda as a hook in itself.
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Jun 24, 2015 16:52
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Sorry about bringing up Technocracy Chat again, but having genuinely good and idealistic people working for a horrible, hidebound and in some places evil organisation is such a great hook that I really don't understand why people hate it as a direction. How much minor weirdness do you overlook to focus on big threats? What happens when you have more in common with your "opposite numbers" in the Traditions than you do with the awful people you work for? What if you have to work with, say, Werewolves, to defeat some horrible thing from the Umbra? What if they're good people, but your boss is asking pointed questions and giving meaningful nods towards the silver-filled claymore mine? What happens when you uncover corruption (literal, magical corruption) within the ranks, but don't have the rank/clearance to be heard? IMO the real antagonist in a Technocracy game isn't a rabble of Reality Deviants, it's the Technocratic system tself.
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Jun 24, 2015 17:17
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Ferrinus posted:I was about to say, that one's easy because you just dissect a spider or something. Maybe an Azlu Azarath.
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Jun 24, 2015 18:04
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:Sorry about bringing up Technocracy Chat again, but having genuinely good and idealistic people working for a horrible, hidebound and in some places evil organisation is such a great hook that I really don't understand why people hate it as a direction. People hate it because large numbers of the people talking about it on the internet are largely unable or unwilling to grasp nuance, and will unironically call the organization as a whole the "real heroes." Some of them will even cite the Guide to the Technocracy as their authority on the subject!
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Jun 24, 2015 18:23
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People have never really been good at handling or recognizing oWoD's love of the unreliable narrator in pretty much all setting text. Overall I would say that made it a really bad decision but they stuck by it.
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Jun 24, 2015 18:25
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Mors Rattus posted:People have never really been good at handling or recognizing oWoD's love of the unreliable narrator in pretty much all setting text. I haven't read any oWoD supplements in a long time, so is that unreliable 1st person or unreliable 3rd person narratives? Because if it's the latter, it's a really bad idea to trick people into thinking the text is being objective or make them cross reference multiple books to get an idea of what is actually happening in the setting.
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Jun 24, 2015 18:33
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Mors Rattus posted:People have never really been good at handling or recognizing oWoD's love of the unreliable narrator in pretty much all setting text. Unreliable narrators are a pretty lovely way of trying to convey setting information; I can understand taking things literally because the alternative is to second-guess the only authority one has on what was actually intended. The GURPS Vampire, Werewolf, and Mage books may not be the best way to play the old World of Darkness, but I find them very convenient because they're straightforward and clear in their descriptions (with Mage, as straightforward and clear as they can be. Even the traditionally factual tone of GURPS throws up its hands when it comes to explaining oMage).
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Jun 24, 2015 18:35
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Kavak posted:I haven't read any oWoD supplements in a long time, so is that unreliable 1st person or unreliable 3rd person narratives? Because if it's the latter, it's a really bad idea to trick people into thinking the text is being objective or make them cross reference multiple books to get an idea of what is actually happening in the setting. It uses various combinations of the unreliable first person and a more-or-less objective but obviously slanted third person. I don't actually have a problem with that aspect of the approach; I only minded first-person narrative because it was the 90s and most of the first person narrators were unbearably smug.
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Jun 24, 2015 18:36
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Slanted to the point of occasional in-line contradiction. (Good luck making the Rokea mythology the 3rd-person narration presents as true reconcile with anything in Werewolf!)
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Jun 24, 2015 18:39
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LatwPIAT posted:Unreliable narrators are a pretty lovely way of trying to convey setting information; I can understand taking things literally because the alternative is to second-guess the only authority one has on what was actually intended. The GURPS Vampire, Werewolf, and Mage books may not be the best way to play the old World of Darkness, but I find them very convenient because they're straightforward and clear in their descriptions (with Mage, as straightforward and clear as they can be. Even the traditionally factual tone of GURPS throws up its hands when it comes to explaining oMage). Which is probably why it comes up so much in talking about things like owod and beast.
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Jun 24, 2015 18:41
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Attorney at Funk posted:Technocracy apologism in 2015. This, I claim, is ideology. The New World Order book is the best because "hard men making hard choices while hard" is the most obvious thing to catch in this post-post-9/11 world.
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Jun 25, 2015 05:15
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I think, for me, I only ever heard about the Technocracy second hand so I pretty much got the line they'd probably actually use as in-setting propaganda: "We're the ones who won't stand for the World of Darkness." The idea that they were supposed to be the faction that wanted to put a stop to all this supernatural nonsense and make a world that didn't have any desire to keep it going sounded good, except that learning more it's pretty clear it's just a line and they're primarily about making a world where Nice Things All Belong To The Technocracy. And everyone else is dead/enslaved.
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Jun 25, 2015 05:21
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Night10194 posted:I think, for me, I only ever heard about the Technocracy second hand so I pretty much got the line they'd probably actually use as in-setting propaganda: "We're the ones who won't stand for the World of Darkness." The idea that they were supposed to be the faction that wanted to put a stop to all this supernatural nonsense and make a world that didn't have any desire to keep it going sounded good, except that learning more it's pretty clear it's just a line and they're primarily about making a world where Nice Things All Belong To The Technocracy. And everyone else is dead/enslaved. The thing about the Technocracy wanting is to fight all the supernatural nonsense is that when it came time to take action, their first target weren't vampires, werewolves or demons, but other Mages with slightly different philosophies. Not even the really horrible Mages nobody likes, no, just those fuckers down the hall.
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Jun 25, 2015 05:46
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MonsieurChoc posted:The thing about the Technocracy wanting is to fight all the supernatural nonsense is that when it came time to take action, their first target weren't vampires, werewolves or demons, but other Mages with slightly different philosophies. Not even the really horrible Mages nobody likes, no, just those fuckers down the hall. Exactly. What I meant is that the way I heard about them is exactly how they'd describe themselves, and that they're about as useful or nice as the Camarilla. And about as big a convoluted mess that has no actual idea what it's doing. Well, aside from keeping the select people on top in power and perpetuating themselves.
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Jun 25, 2015 05:48
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Yeah but now they never shut up about how they wasted that one dude with solar mirrors
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Jun 25, 2015 06:21
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When you see the Social Conditioning Chart, that's... Technocratic heroes are sad. They work for a thing that is not worth them. Because it's their home, because it's the only thing that makes sense to them. Because running isn't going to end well, and they'd hate themselves for the rest of their life if they didn't go down fighting. The Revised Metaplot then got rid of many of the higher ups, leaving room for new growth. The Collegium of Gender Studies, The Feed, Invictus, SISD... The former Order of Reason is so magnificently rotten that it's beautiful. If they pull it through, if it lives well and does well, it will be a miracle, but Mage is about exactly that kind of miracle. Technocrats are the greatest heroes of Mage for the same reason that they make such good villains. They're our dark mirror, and they've lost too much to turn back. What has been done cannot be undone, nothing can balance the scale, it cannot be for nothing. Big Hubris fucked around with this message at 10:08 on Jun 25, 2015 |
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Jun 25, 2015 10:01
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Elemental preview is up.
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Jun 25, 2015 10:20
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I think I am starting to get tired of the bravado of these previews. I get it, Seemings are about empowerment now, but I would like to see something else for a change.
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Jun 25, 2015 10:58
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Awakening> Ascension. Hth.
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Jun 25, 2015 12:48
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DJ Dizzy posted:Awakening> Ascension. Hth. Well, yes. Of course. 
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Jun 25, 2015 12:54
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Ascension is better than Awakening, because if you Ascend you have waaaaay higher stats.
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Jun 25, 2015 14:36
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Yeah but just skipping straight to ascension without being awakened for a good while first probably leaves you with comparatively lovely stats. It's like leveling solely off rare candy.
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Jun 25, 2015 14:47
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Ferrinus posted:Yeah but just skipping straight to ascension without being awakened for a good while first probably leaves you with comparatively lovely stats. It's like leveling solely off rare candy. Then you just go to a lower level area and one-shot weaker mages for their EVs. Or blow up balloons for 2 hours.
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Jun 25, 2015 15:23
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Attorney at Funk posted:Ascension is better than Awakening, because if you Ascend you have waaaaay higher stats. What matter are stats to a mind/life archmage.
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Jun 25, 2015 16:55
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Ferrinus posted:Yeah but just skipping straight to ascension without being awakened for a good while first probably leaves you with comparatively lovely stats. It's like leveling solely off rare candy.
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Jun 25, 2015 17:17
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paradoxGentleman posted:I think I am starting to get tired of the bravado of these previews. I get it, Seemings are about empowerment now, but I would like to see something else for a change. I'm really looking forward to seeing how they spin Wizened. Gain a point of Clarity when you lash out at something beautiful out of spite for your own twisted body! e: I've said my piece about 2e at this point but quote:Maybe the Elemental-to-be stayed on course, attempting to be the most special, the most important, the most unique of all the captives at the Keeper’s hand. Maybe she determined to burn the brightest, even in hell. Or maybe she went dim, fading, beginning to become nothing since she could never hope to matter anymore. And yet, at some point, brutal winds toughened her skin, or else the pain of hot steel dimmed and she felt only the sensation, not the agony. She saw, for the first time, the elements around her, and realised how big and wild nature itself was, the biggest most important thing. In that moment, she decided to release her ego, her need to be special vanished in an instant, and her heart fell out, hitting the ground, and shattering to a thousand useless pieces all at once. Quickly, she filled that hole, her heart, herself, with the raw possibility of the elements, embodying fire, electricity, ice, light, any such overwhelming force. And in making that choice, she used the element itself to escaping, becoming it’s child in the real world, free of the Hedge. need a ", which is bad" here Kellsterik fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Jun 25, 2015 |
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Jun 25, 2015 18:25
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Is it supposed to be bad? I thought the point at which you become a [#insert splat here] is supposed to be a moment where you take a sharp left and take control of the situation.
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Jun 26, 2015 00:28
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MonsieurChoc posted:The thing about the Technocracy wanting is to fight all the supernatural nonsense is that when it came time to take action, their first target weren't vampires, werewolves or demons, but other Mages with slightly different philosophies. Not even the really horrible Mages nobody likes, no, just those fuckers down the hall. Except that that decision makes complete sense, because from the standpoint of what the Technocracy all of those supernatural creatures are just symptoms of the underlying problem, which if unaddressed would simply give rise to new horrors as quickly as you stamped the old ones out. Most of the other supernatural creatures have no idea what is going on in terms of the battle for consensual reality, while the "dudes with slightly different philosophies" do and are capable of offering credible opposition. Getting them out of the way leaves you free to create a world where most of the other supernaturals can be largely ignored as irrelevant parasites who are on the way out without needing to spend an inordinate amount of time, energy, and blood hunting down every last vampire.
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Jun 26, 2015 00:55
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LGD posted:Except that that decision makes complete sense, because from the standpoint of what the Technocracy all of those supernatural creatures are just symptoms of the underlying problem, which if unaddressed would simply give rise to new horrors as quickly as you stamped the old ones out. Most of the other supernatural creatures have no idea what is going on in terms of the battle for consensual reality, while the "dudes with slightly different philosophies" do and are capable of offering credible opposition. Getting them out of the way leaves you free to create a world where most of the other supernaturals can be largely ignored as irrelevant parasites who are on the way out without needing to spend an inordinate amount of time, energy, and blood hunting down every last vampire. This is wrong, though. The other mages had no loving clue either: the truly revolutionary thing about the Order of Reason was that they were the first to try to change reality. They had no reason to attack the Traditions, except that they had different beliefs and the OoR has always been a militant ideology. Your post is pretty obvious Technocratic justification for their terrible actions. The Mage equivalent of Manifest Destiny.
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Jun 26, 2015 01:09
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WELCOME BACK MY FRIENDS TO THE SHOW THAT NEVER ENDS
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Jun 26, 2015 01:31
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Daeren posted:WELCOME BACK MY FRIENDS TO THE SHOW THAT NEVER ENDS The wallpaper must be green.
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Jun 26, 2015 01:42
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I'm not saying that people who love oMage also love Hitler, and want to tenderly kiss him on his bristly-mustachioed mouth muah muah muah, but I'm not not saying that either.
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Jun 26, 2015 01:49
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Daeren posted:WELCOME BACK MY FRIENDS TO THE SHOW THAT NEVER ENDS God-drat. Way to take what I said way farther than I did, holy poo poo.
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Jun 26, 2015 02:20
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MonsieurChoc posted:God-drat. Way to take what I said way farther than I did, holy poo poo. I wasn't so much calling your argument a Godwin argument as much as I was going for the first two emotes I could think of to summarize an argument that I've seen so often that I could repeat the highlights while comatose.
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Jun 26, 2015 02:25
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