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Does the fire spirit look pained/frustrated/pissed? I just thought it was maybe how fire elementals look? Or maybe it's just thematically got the same face as Annie's mask.
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Jun 26, 2015 15:10
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Roach Warehouse posted:I'm more inclined to think that this is self-inflicted/ some ploy of Annie's simply because we hadn't seen the fire elemental before. If Anthony new about it/ built this room to contain it, I can't see any reason why it would have been hiding when there was a risk of him coming around. That last image was great just because there is so many ways that you can interpret it. Though yeah, I think this is part of some plot that Annie is coming up with.
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Jun 26, 2015 15:11
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Rotten Cookies posted:I just thought it was maybe how fire elementals look? This was my initial impression as well.
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Jun 26, 2015 15:12
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Rotten Cookies posted:Does the fire spirit look pained/frustrated/pissed? I just thought it was maybe how fire elementals look? Or maybe it's just thematically got the same face as Annie's mask. Check the other pages we've seen it in (bone surgery comes to mind as an example) - id pull it up myself but I'm on mobile.
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Jun 26, 2015 15:30
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I read it as the equivalent of a lobotomy. Annie genuinely thinks what just happened 'went well', because the side of her that could feel such things have been literally removed.
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Jun 26, 2015 15:47
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I feel like Tony has to know about the elemental. There's no other explanation for this hideously oversized room, and he has complete control over where she lives.
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Jun 26, 2015 15:48
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Can we compare the fire elemental's face to Jeanne in this chapter? It's the same angry face with the lines of the face drawn in towards the middle.
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Jun 26, 2015 15:53
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Itzena posted:
Nailed it~ I wonder what that girl's up to.
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Jun 26, 2015 16:00
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Jun 26, 2015 16:20
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Podima posted:Check the other pages we've seen it in (bone surgery comes to mind as an example) - id pull it up myself but I'm on mobile. Here we go: http://gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1040 http://gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1041 Smooth face, no angry lines. http://gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1532 Clearly angry/in pain.
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Jun 26, 2015 16:30
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She's not hiding the fire spirit from her dad. If he doesn't know all about this, I'd be surprised. She's hiding it from Kat . EDIT: http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1500 Holy poo poo. She never said what specifically her dad 'didn't' do. She could have been saying, "Kat, he didn't do it to humiliate me." tom bob-ombadil fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Jun 26, 2015 |
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Jun 26, 2015 16:34
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dragon_pamcake posted:EDIT: http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1500 This was my interpretation in the first place, I was surprised that anyone read it as "he didn't cut my hair". Annie is in overly literal mode so she seems more likely to be answering the question exactly as asked.
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Jun 26, 2015 16:45
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I think this confirms that the Annie walking around is a doppelganger, an aspect of her cut away from the rest, and her true/full personality is imprisoned within that room.
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Jun 26, 2015 16:52
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This debate is going to be raging for months before we find out, isn't it. 
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Jun 26, 2015 16:57
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I'm seeing this as something Annie did to keep it out of her father's hands, much like giving control of Rey to Kat. The fire elemental side of her spirit is pissed because that's what it is, a raging fire. Even Coyote referenced that Annie's anger comes from there, but Annie is smart enough to realize blazing rage against her father will do her no favors. I'm in support of the long con theory, for sure. Also, Annie reminds me of Jones in the way she's standing there. She intends to weather this situation like a rock, and be reunited with those she's been cut off from. Edit: GENUINE CAT HERDER posted:
Has this been taken yet? Raposa fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Jun 26, 2015 |
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Jun 26, 2015 17:07
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Annie has simply awakened her Stand, Magician's Red.
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Jun 26, 2015 17:13
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I'm going to say she cut her hair with the Tooth, for any reason already suggested.
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Jun 26, 2015 17:28
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This was a righteous page.
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Jun 26, 2015 17:32
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The Mask is on its own, walking and talking like a real person!
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Jun 26, 2015 17:56
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I told you about the big room for [fire] activities. I told you dog. I doubt Anthony did this (lol lobotomy theory goes right up there with MIND CONTROOOOL) if he can't even figure out Renard's deal.
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Jun 26, 2015 18:18
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I think it's a little more complicated than separating just the mind and body- it always has been with Annie. It wasn't so long ago she didn't know anything about the fire elemental part of herself, or how to access it, even though it was always here. It isn't her spirit, just a part of it. It's the force her mother gave her and died for. When her father did...whatever he did, he not only separated the elemental part of herself, he likely did something to the human part left behind. She clearly has her mind and will, but shows some signs of...tampering. Likely the very same thing that happened to himself, intentionally or otherwise. That would explain his behavior change, because even as cold and distant as he is normally, something has made things far more severe. Annie's behavior change matches up pretty well with her fathers, if you take their normal personalities into consideration. She isn't gone, it's more like her emotions are completely suppressed or excised from her, which is probably what her elemental self represents- the fire she literally got from her mother. Her father probably did this to himself to test to see if it worked, and got hosed up in the process. I have to wonder if his emotive force/spirit is trapped in a room somewhere, or if it died because it isn't strong enough to sustain itself on it's own like his wife and daughter's fire. We have to go back to remember when he left, and why. He left when his wife died, knowing it was because she was giving her fire(life force) to her daughter. He left to go seek a way to bring his wife back, and so the only possible reason he had to come back was that he figured it out. He has found a way to separate the part that left his wife at great physical and spiritual cost, and now likely intends to somehow bring her back to life. Maybe that's the next step, keep it neutered and contained in that room until he can put everything into action. On second thought, he might not be trying to bring his wife back to life as much as he is trying to remove the influence of the fire from his family, seeing the cycle of how it is passed along. Maybe he is just trying to save her from what he sees as a terrible fate. Maybe all he has ever wanted was a normal family, and this is the only way he can see this ever coming to pass. Part of me thinks this is rather more likely, as the former Frankenstein-like trope is a bit too simple. There is a bit more credence to this when you remember about the binding he put on that very same spirit earlier- the one Zimmy broke. It might never have been Annie he was trying to control, but the spirit that brought him so much grief and pain.
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Jun 26, 2015 18:37
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RabidWeasel posted:
Parley: He made you cut your hair?! Annie: No! He didn't!
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Jun 26, 2015 18:40
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That doesn't mean he didn't do it himself. The wording's really ambiguous.
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Jun 26, 2015 18:54
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Yes, but it does mean Coyote's Tooth probably wasn't involved.
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Jun 26, 2015 18:59
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Pretty sure Tony did this, as that's why he put Annie in that big room to begin with. He's trying to save her life since he knows she'll die eventually when she has a child.
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Jun 26, 2015 19:03
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He is trying to stop the thing that killed his wife from killing his daughter, and apparently it's working.... But at what cost!?
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Jun 26, 2015 19:06
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Demiurge4 posted:Can we compare the fire elemental's face to Jeanne in this chapter? Yes good job you have found the artistic style with which Tom shows "angry".
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Jun 26, 2015 19:08
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PubicMice posted:Yes, but it does mean Coyote's Tooth probably wasn't involved. I didn't say I thought it was? There are basically two theories of what happened to Antimony here: 1. She did it to herself with Coyote's tooth to protect her fire-self from her dad. 2. Tony did it to her so she wouldn't die when/if she had a child, completing his 'bone scalpel' surgery. I'm in camp #2 because I feel it explains why she didn't show Kat her cool trick and why the room Antimony's in is so weird. However, I admit there's enough evidence for #1 for it to be a possibility.
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Jun 26, 2015 19:13
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Wittgen posted:This is just not accurate. We've seen short hair Annie display a variety of emotions consistent with her established character and her new circumstances. It's also short hair Annie who transferred Rey over to Kat. That's hardly the action of an empty mask. Whatever the circumstances of this separation, short hair Annie is definitely still Annie. A ship cut in half is still a ship, and it's a big part of that ship, but forgive me if I don't think it deserves the original's designation. But yes, "empty mask" is a little harsh and this aspect of her was clearly part of Annie for a long time.
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Jun 26, 2015 19:15
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PubicMice posted:This was my interpretation in the first place, I was surprised that anyone read it as "he didn't cut my hair". Annie is in overly literal mode so she seems more likely to be answering the question exactly as asked. She also asks Smitface to tell Coyote and Ysengrin to be patient, which sorta seems like there's a plan. Also the fire elemental in today's page is missing that "crown" they're usually wearing. I almost thought it might just be another fire elemental, but the haircut means it's Annie. Or it's like a solidarity thing and it's a new friend, but that's crazy talk.
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Jun 26, 2015 19:32
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dragon_pamcake posted:I didn't say I thought it was? There's more options - the most important thing we're missing here is a motive. We can safely assume that either Anthony or Antimony did this, but it is a bit early to say why. Well, if it was Anthony it was presumably to save Antimony where he couldn't save Surma. But if the "Anthony is a sadistic freak that wants to out-do Gendo" camp is right it could be for some other reason. Similarly, you can't say that if Antimony did this she did it to protect the elemental side of her from Anthony. It could be for a hundred other reasons. It could be to ensure she doesn't have an outburst that fails the standard she holds herself up to with regards to her father. It could be going along with Anthony on some other thing (could tie in with #2). It could be something we can't even fathom right now. Come to think of it I'm curious as to how Antimony appears in the aether now. Also would be nice if the comic actually started answering things instead of just posing more questions. Hopefully the next chapter will.
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Jun 26, 2015 19:51
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I'm calling it here, Tony has possessed Annie's body so he can experiment/contain the fire spirit. Either in a bid to protect his daughter in the most hosed-up way possible, get a new body after his got messed up by Zimmy, or use the spirit to try to recall Surma from wherever she went to. Like I said, buckle in. It's gonna get worse.
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Jun 26, 2015 19:56
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seriously
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Jun 26, 2015 20:04
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MikeJF posted:Might have been hiding from Kat. Lurdiak posted:Nailed it~  Also: Oh. Oh dear.  It's funny that right now "This is something that Tony did to Annie" is actually the better option. Because if Tony did it, there's an relatively close end game (Another adult finds out about it, or Annie collapses showing that ripping out the fire elemental is the same as having a kid, or the elemental side latches on to Zimmy who then breaks out her best punching fist, or even FieryAnnie snaps and burns her way through the Court in a straight line to her father and gives him an instant cremation). If it's not, then Annie lobotomised herself to keep her dad happy and that not something easily fixed. Not just the literal split personality, but the fact that she's so broken that she thought this was a good idea. Itzena fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Jun 26, 2015 |
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Jun 26, 2015 20:09
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J.A.B.C. posted:I'm calling it here, Tony has possessed Annie's body so he can experiment/contain the fire spirit. Either in a bid to protect his daughter in the most hosed-up way possible, get a new body after his got messed up by Zimmy, or use the spirit to try to recall Surma from wherever she went to. And I'm taking the other side, that Annie did it to herself, and she has a plan (the long con as another put it). Also by putting this on Tony, who is in the dark about Rey (seemingly set up that way by Annie, perhaps to fool herself?), we are removing Annie's agency just like everyone else in the story--treating her as "stupid". I think she's going to pull this over on everybody.
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Jun 26, 2015 20:35
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Annie agrees wholeheartedly with Anthony's plan and is actually taunting the wicked fire elemental by demonstrating that she's fine without it.
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Jun 26, 2015 20:40
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Here: http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1503 The "bone spears" were never Tony's. They are of Annie's creation. They are symbolic of her suppression of her passion (i.e. the fire elemental side of her) in order to put on the calm robotic mask that evidently pleases her father (and we know she is desperate for adult approval) which is why they lead to him in the symbolic dreamscape traveled by Zimmy. That's my reading of it at least. e. I still do wonder if the elemental is part of her core being or a parasite of some sort
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Jun 26, 2015 20:49
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Itzena posted:Kat can't see etheric beings unless they manifest though. She can see them just fine, she just perceive them differently from how Annie does. Evidence: Renard, Mort, Basil (okay, maybe he's no etheric but come on, he's a minotaur from antiquity), the whole ROTD chapter. Yeah she couldn't see psychopomps unless they let her, but I guess it's a psychopomp thing more than a being of the etherium thing. (Annie can see them, but she's partly a psychopomp too.) Combed Thunderclap posted:A ship cut in half is still a ship No, it's a wreck. Well I guess depending on the design and on how the cut is made a catamaran's halves could still float. Cat Mattress fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Jun 26, 2015 |
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Jun 26, 2015 21:13
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Cat Mattress posted:She can see them just fine, she just perceive them differently from how Annie does. Evidence: Renard, Mort, Basil (okay, maybe he's no etheric but come on, he's a minotaur from antiquity), the whole ROTD chapter. Yeah she couldn't see psychopomps unless they let her, but I guess it's a psychopomp thing more than a being of the etherium thing. (Annie can see them, but she's partly a psychopomp too.)
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Jun 26, 2015 21:37
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The general theme with GC is "something horrible and scary turns out to be just fine and/or understandable". See: all of the demons, ghosts, mythical beings, Renard, Ysengrin, Shadow, even Coyote at first. Even the most wicked character of all imho, Diego, is revealed to be a pathetic, regret-filled man at the end of his life. Whether or not Tony has already meddled with Annie's fire elemental, it's probably going to end up that he is not evil, just doing things in the only way he knows how, and that he will turn out to be alright in the end. I don't even know if there is a true "evil" character in all of GC which is what makes it such a great story - even the baddies have real motivations and are sympathetic characters. We just haven't figured out what makes Tony sympathetic yet.
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Jun 26, 2015 21:48
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