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Mel Mudkiper posted:Is there a reason you are ignoring the fact your attempt to smear Anita as having a questionable background has been completely redacted by the original writer of the article? First of all, your link didn't parse correctly, so I couldn't follow it. Also, I don't really see how Baggett going "Aw shucks, it was all in good fun!" is a strong defense of his character and motives.
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Jul 3, 2015 02:31
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OMG JC a Bomb! posted:Here's a Forbes article on the subject: Hahaha: quote:Perhaps Fox Business’s John Stossel—who has spoken up in defense of video games and their lack of connection to real-world violence—could host discussion or debate on the subject of sexism, free speech, and other hot topics in video games. Oh lordy yes Fox's John Stossel, that's a great guy to moderate a discussion. Are you applying the same level of critical analysis to these critics of Sarkeesian as you are to her? Oh, and: http://cowkitty.net/post/79912196471/update-3-you-stole-my-artwork-an-open-letter quote:Anita, thank you so very very much for doing the right thing and finally removing my artwork as I had kindly requested. This is a fantastic first step to recognizing the rights of digital content creators such as myself, and a wonderful example for content creators of different disciplines to try to communicate and work together. Yes, that story sure makes her look bad. OMG JC a Bomb! posted:First of all, your link didn't parse correctly, so I couldn't follow it. Also, I don't really see how Baggett going "Aw shucks, it was all in good fun!" is a strong defense of his character and motives. It was more that you characterized the work she did with him as related to PUA stuff when it wasn't, and also it doesn't really seem in the least bit relevant. OMG JC a Bomb! posted:There are the big ones, like Machinima, The Nerdist, Funny or Die, Epic Rap Battles, and the countless professional LP'ers like PewdiePie and others who release videos very frequently (often daily). The profitability of their channels depends largely on the volume of content they produce, and their production values are often higher and more difficult to achieve than Feminist Frequency's videos. What are your metrics for this? These seem like super-lovely comparisons to me. For example: quote:As a Multi Channel Network, Machinima has over 5,000 partners worldwide who are contracted to produce video content under the Machinima brand. Did you just not know that or something? You seem to have done some kinda very one-sided research here, brother-man. Obdicut fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Jul 3, 2015 |
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Jul 3, 2015 02:31
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OMG JC a Bomb! posted:First of all, your link didn't parse correctly, so I couldn't follow it. Also, I don't really see how Baggett going "Aw shucks, it was all in good fun!" is a strong defense of his character and motives. http://guardianlv.com/2014/11/anita-sarkeesian-unmasked-feminist-icon-or-con-artist/ happy to help If you want to say you still question his motives, then more simply, why do you think that a 23 year old production assistant would know about what her boss wrote in books 15 years ago that had zero relevance to what she was hired to do?
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Jul 3, 2015 02:35
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Three literal companies with larger production budgets and staff, one website that has no outside footage at all, and an LPer Are you honestly suggesting that it's somehow inordinately difficult to edit together footage of more than one video game? Like, the video games are magnetized in such a way that their footage keeps repelling the other video games until the clips fly all over Sony Vegas? There are countless "TOP TEN MOST WACKY VIDEO GAME MOMENTS!" montages all over YouTube from dozens of different sources that combine footage from multiple games into an overall package. Machinama produces them hand over fist. I have a degree in video production and do it professionally. I'm confident that FF could produce videos with greater frequency (dohohoho). EDIT: Okay, perhaps a better example would be channels like Game Grumps or Super Best Friends. They're a team of maybe five or six people who produce multiple videos every day, each one with opening and closing animations, and they make a living doing it (not sure how much, but probably well into the six-figure area). OMG JC a Bomb! fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Jul 3, 2015 |
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Jul 3, 2015 02:36
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OMG JC a Bomb! posted:Are you honestly suggesting that it's somehow inordinately difficult to edit together footage of more than one video game? Like, the video games are magnetized in such a way that their footage keeps repelling the other video games until the clips fly all over Sony Vegas? There are countless "TOP TEN MOST WACKY VIDEO GAME MOMENTS!" montages all over YouTube from dozens of different sources that combine footage from multiple games into an overall package. Machinama produces them hand over fist. Hey speaking of Machinama: quote:As a Multi Channel Network, Machinima has over 5,000 partners worldwide who are contracted to produce video content under the Machinima brand. This took me five seconds to find out. Did you bother trying to look up this sort of thing, or did you figure "Eh, why bother, I know Sarkeesian is up to no good!' Edit: quote:Machinima's partnership with Google includes Google's £30 million investment into Machinima. The channel has become the most popular non-music channel on YouTube. Okay yeah with 30 million dollars I think maybe I found the reason they can produce videos more quickly, just possibly a clue there. And again this research takes literal seconds.
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Jul 3, 2015 02:37
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OMG JC a Bomb! posted:Are you honestly suggesting that it's somehow inordinately difficult to edit together footage of more than one video game? Like, the video games are magnetized in such a way that their footage keeps repelling the other video games until the clips fly all over Sony Vegas? If your goal is to compile an authentic and wide-reaching analysis of a trope how long do you imagine it would take to play, analyze, and edit relevant footage in a way that can be demonstrated as a cohesive narrative. Its much different to say "Here are 10 moments from games I played that made me cry" versus "here are 20 games from various periods in gaming history that share a common trope with the specific scenes highlighted and dissected: EDIT: To clarify, no one is saying editing the videos takes months. We are saying compiling relevant footage and interpreting it takes months.
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Jul 3, 2015 02:39
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Obdicut posted:Hey speaking of Machinama: Giantbomb produces weekly video segments plus quick looks and they don't have 30 million dollar funding. They did this even before they were bought by CBSI. I don't see why Feminist Frequency couldn't produce more movies. In fact dont they just take Let Play footage for most of their gameplay?
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Jul 3, 2015 02:40
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Hey documentary filmmaker, why are you taking six months to edit your film when I know some guys who made a thirty minute video of them running around in the woods in a weekend.
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Jul 3, 2015 02:42
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OMG JC a Bomb! posted:EDIT: Okay, perhaps a better example would be channels like Game Grumps or Super Best Friends. They're a team of maybe five or six people who produce multiple videos every day, each one with opening and closing animations, and they make a living doing it (not sure how much, but probably well into the six-figure area). Superbestfriends and game grumps play games and do live commentary over it. Their entire editing process is sound mixing and minor graphics work. There is no comparison between what they do and what Sarkeesian does.
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Jul 3, 2015 02:43
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Exmond posted:Giantbomb produces weekly video segments plus quick looks and they don't have 30 million dollar funding. They did this even before they were bought by CBSI. I don't see why Feminist Frequency couldn't produce more movies. In fact dont they just take Let Play footage for most of their gameplay? Great, let's go through a big list and see if any complaint can stick, while ignoring all the ones that don't stick. I'm sure they could update more frequently. Or less. How is this a criticism? I don't get it. They do other stuff too. You go to the site, you find a lot of stuff. The obsessive need to criticize her is one of the weirdest goddamn things about this whole weird kaboodle. Dragging up the job she had when she was 23 as a production assistant as though that says something about her character? Sheesus. OMG JC a Bomb! posted:
Edit: How about having a single moment of introspection about why your criticisms are so badly thought through? You compared her to a 30 million dollar website, your critic of choice from Forbes is a fan of John Stossel, you creepily drag up her employment history at age 23 as though that says something about her character, and your main complaint appears to be that she's not producing content fast enough, but she clearly is doing stuff other people support. You seem to really, really have an axe to grind with her and your reasons you give why aren't very convincing. Obdicut fucked around with this message at 02:48 on Jul 3, 2015 |
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Jul 3, 2015 02:44
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Hey documentary filmmaker, why are you taking six months to edit your film when I know some guys who made a thirty minute video of them running around in the woods in a weekend. i didn't know a 30 minute video constituted a film? Right so now that we know how easy it is to get footage you think its research? I mean David Pakman does thought out shows every week or so?
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Jul 3, 2015 02:44
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Exmond posted:i didn't know a 30 minute video constituted a film? If people don't like the rate that she's producing stuff, they can stop donating to her, right? I've never donated to her, personally, so maybe you guys have sent her thousands of dollars and that's why you're Real Mad.
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Jul 3, 2015 02:45
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Mel Mudkiper posted:If your goal is to compile an authentic and wide-reaching analysis of a trope how long do you imagine it would take to play, analyze, and edit relevant footage in a way that can be demonstrated as a cohesive narrative. It seems like it wouldn't be any harder to find and isolated "problematic moments" as opposed to "Here are 10 moments from games I played that made me cry". Or I suppose you could just fire up Hitman, shoot a female character (that you weren't supposed to shoot), and drag her ragdoll around for awhile while pretending that it has some sort of significance. FF's video about Beyond Good and Evil was nothing but random gameplay clips, with Anita's commentary almost never having any relevance to what was happening on the screen. And then there's the matter of her taking footage from Let's Play videos on YouTube and using them in her own videos. How hard would it be to do something like Google "Punch Woman+Deus Ex Human Revolution", find out that you could, in fact, punch women, and then go look up videos of people doing it on YouTube so you could use them in your video suggesting that Deus Ex supports violence against women? Honestly, if my boss told me to produce something like that, that's how I'd do it.
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Jul 3, 2015 02:46
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Exmond posted:I mean David Pakman does thought out shows every week or so? David Pakman has international broadcasting deals and a research team
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Jul 3, 2015 02:46
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OMG JC a Bomb! posted:Or I suppose you could just fire up Hitman, shoot a female character (that you weren't supposed to shoot), and drag her ragdoll around for awhile while pretending that it has some sort of significance. Jesus why do you people get so hung up on this. We just had a goddamn 20 page discussion about why this argument is dumb. quote:And then there's the matter of her taking footage from Let's Play videos on YouTube and using them in her own videos. How hard would it be to do something like Google "Punch Woman+Deus Ex Human Revolution", find out that you could, in fact, punch women, and then go look up videos of people doing it on YouTube so you could use them in your video suggesting that Deus Ex supports violence against women? Honestly, if my boss told me to produce something like that, that's how I'd do it. I am lazy and dishonest ergo my opponent must also be lazy and dishonest
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Jul 3, 2015 02:48
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Mel Mudkiper posted:I find the idea of a man creating a sexualized female character and defending it as empowering to be specious I don't think Kamiya ever said she was empowering. But that maybe isn't what you are trying to say here. Obdicut posted:I think you think you're making a point, but I don't get what it is. Do you think that someone has claimed women will reject sexualized female characters or something? I guess I feel there is implication in this thread that showing boobs and butts is bad and it should be discouraged because it bothers people. I believe boobs and butts are good. I believe SMG says as much too for different reasons and he was quoted positively here, but I can't find the quote of his.
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Jul 3, 2015 02:48
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Mel Mudkiper posted:David Pakman has international broadcasting deals and a research team Holy poo poo I did not know that! Thats awesome, way to go Pakman! And in all seriousness, I do wish Anita would release what she stated she would on kickstarter. I find her main points to be interesting, just her examples are a bit frustrating.
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Jul 3, 2015 02:49
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Superbestfriends and game grumps play games and do live commentary over it. Their entire editing process is sound mixing and minor graphics work. There is no comparison between what they do and what Sarkeesian does. The hardest part would be the writing, but her feminist critiques are very rudimentary and wouldn't be acceptable for academic purposes. Her videos include basic animated transitions and chroma-wall use, which any modern post-production software can do very easily. As for being mad, I'm not mad. I'm just saying that I feel I can be an advocate for feminism and progressive values while simultaneously being critical of Feminist Frequency's motivations.
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Jul 3, 2015 02:49
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OMG JC a Bomb! posted:It seems like it wouldn't be any harder to find and isolated "problematic moments" as opposed to "Here are 10 moments from games I played that made me cry". What if John Stossel asked you to animate his moustache having adventures? How long would it take you to do that, if you took a break every five hours or so to make a post about how Sarkeesian doesn't produce pictures as fast as Machinima, which has a 30 million pound investment and 5000 content partners? Maybe you can find out some college essays she wrote too!
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Jul 3, 2015 02:49
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Exmond posted:Holy poo poo I did not know that! Thats awesome, way to go Pakman! I linked her kickstarter page where she claims to have released what she promised already. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/566429325/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games/description Is any of that wrong?
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Jul 3, 2015 02:51
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OMG JC a Bomb! posted:but her feminist critiques are very rudimentary and wouldn't be acceptable for academic purposes. go on  Please demonstrate how Anita's criticisms are laughably inferior to, let's say, Judith Butler I will even be nice and let you opt for Simone de Beauvoir if you find Butler a bit inaccessible
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Jul 3, 2015 02:52
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Obdicut posted:What if John Stossel asked you to animate his moustache having adventures? How long would it take you to do that, if you took a break every five hours or so to make a post about how Sarkeesian doesn't produce pictures as fast as Machinima, which has a 30 million pound investment and 5000 content partners? Maybe you can find out some college essays she wrote too! The most difficult part would be Photoshopping Stossel's face and mustache into two separate layers while keeping the picture of his face intact. After that it's pretty easy to use key-frames and effects in AfterEffects (or even just Premiere) to make the mustache do absolutely anything you wanted it to. It definitely wouldn't take five hours. Or years, for that matter.
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Jul 3, 2015 02:54
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OMG JC a Bomb! posted:The most difficult part would be Photoshopping Stossel's face and mustache into two separate layers while keeping the picture of his face intact. After that it's pretty easy to use key-frames and effects to make the mustache do absolutely anything you wanted it to. It definitely wouldn't take five hours. Hey great job responding to the jokey part of my post. Now how about the parts where I make fun of what a creepy hack job you're doing of criticizing Sarkeesian? There's something kind of delicious about what a bad, effort-free job you're doing of criticizing her for being lazy. Is this performance art, that you make super-lovely and easily debunked criticisms about someone who you think is lovely and easily debunked? I gotta say, you might want to rethink the approach, so far it's not really working out for you. Obdicut fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Jul 3, 2015 |
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Jul 3, 2015 02:55
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Obdicut posted:I linked her kickstarter page where she claims to have released what she promised already. can you link me video #12? That might help clear up some discussion here on the thread.
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Jul 3, 2015 02:57
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JC if you had to compare Anita Sarkeesian unfavorably to a superior voice of academic feminism who would you choose and why?
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Jul 3, 2015 02:57
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The fact that GG is focusing on the smaller indie sites rather than the larger corrupt sites is all the proof I need that GG is not a serious movement. Successful movements target those who are the most responsible and the most corrupt, not the loudest, Sure, the Gay Rights Movement could've spent all of their resources shouting down one hateful church in the South or whatever, but instead they focused on lobbying and protesting for legislation and support from the media.
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Jul 3, 2015 02:57
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JC I made choice inaccurate edits to the Judith Butler and Simone de Beauvoir wikipedia pages before posting so if you are going to use that to cheat I will know not really I just wanted to make you nervous for a second 
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Jul 3, 2015 03:02
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Exmond posted:can you link me video #12? That might help clear up some discussion here on the thread. Ah, sorry, the kickstarter thing means that the funding was achieved, not the videos. She's only, shockingly, put out 8 of those 12 videos, after promising 5. So you've got her! However, she has done some other videos that weren't on the list. So this is confusing. She hasn't done some stuff, but has done other stuff. Now I can't decide if she's good or if she's secretly using that cash to buy Macintosh Hardware. Edit: Here, I found this super-hard-to-find post that took a literal minute to locate where she explains what's up with the schedule, goals, etc. Please note that she does not envision a debate hosted by libertarian shithead John Stossel as part of this, so we need to frown at her for that. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/566429325/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games/posts/1115560 She points out silly things like how some episodes are twice as long as originally anticipated, and other stuff. Obdicut fucked around with this message at 03:08 on Jul 3, 2015 |
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Jul 3, 2015 03:03
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Obdicut posted:However, she has done some other videos that weren't on the list. So this is confusing. She hasn't done some stuff, but has done other stuff. Now I can't decide if she's good or if she's secretly using that cash to buy Macintosh Hardware. BTW, if you ever want to see some quality Anita Sarkeesian paranoia bring up Jonathan McIntosh It is the filet of weirdo GG freakouts
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Jul 3, 2015 03:07
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Obdicut posted:Ah, sorry, the kickstarter thing means that the funding was achieved, not the videos. She's only, shockingly, put out 8 of those 12 videos, after promising 5. So you've got her! Thanks for that! Yeah I think Video #12 will be very interesting when it comes out.
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Jul 3, 2015 03:11
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Mel Mudkiper posted:BTW, if you ever want to see some quality Anita Sarkeesian paranoia bring up Jonathan McIntosh I finally looked at his twitter expecting to find frothing rage and I find pretty reasonable, if often obvious, commentary, like "Batman is actually kind of a dick".
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Jul 3, 2015 03:12
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it speaks to the implicit misogyny of the GG movement when they are convinced the foremost female voice of feminism in gaming is secretly controlled and told what to say by a man.
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Jul 3, 2015 03:13
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Not an Owl posted:The fact that GG is focusing on the smaller indie sites rather than the larger corrupt sites is all the proof I need that GG is not a serious movement. Successful movements target those who are the most responsible and the most corrupt, not the loudest, Sure, the Gay Rights Movement could've spent all of their resources shouting down one hateful church in the South or whatever, but instead they focused on lobbying and protesting for legislation and support from the media. It's even dumber than that; the focus of their ire was Gamasutra, a website providing resources, job listings, and communication for developers. It would be like if the Gay Rights Movement targeted the ACLU because a member said that not every gay person was a Gay Pride Parade veteran.
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Jul 3, 2015 03:17
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OMG JC a Bomb! posted:The hardest part would be the writing, but her feminist critiques are very rudimentary and wouldn't be acceptable for academic purposes. Her videos include basic animated transitions and chroma-wall use, which any modern post-production software can do very easily. What do production values and time-to-release have to do with content? And what do her motives have to do with content? I am not very informed on the current state of video game scholarship myself. Do you have some citations handy for feminist scholarship that offers deeper or more substantial analysis of video games? Also, please help me determine the appropriate level of depth for a youtube video describing video games. I don't know enough to do it on my own.
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Jul 3, 2015 03:21
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Mel Mudkiper posted:BTW, if you ever want to see some quality Anita Sarkeesian paranoia bring up Jonathan McIntosh Haha, I actually really like McIntosh. It seems like he goes to every single super hero movie ever, only to be stunned that it includes huge men/aliens/mutants punching each other for hours, which sends him on tirades about how all violence is toxic masculinity. He reminds me of that evangelical Capalert guy who used to go see R-rated movies while meticulously writing down every instance of swearing and nudity. Oh, and then there's this classic: quote:
I cry every time.
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Jul 3, 2015 03:31
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circ dick soleil posted:I know it's pretty late now but I've found a thread on it, in case you're curious about what 8chan's take on 'Her Story' is. drat, I was hoping for a 'his story'. But that's interesting a wide spectrum from 'Its not a game' to 'cool' (It is cool and cheap which is why everyone should buy it). Mel Mudkiper posted:it speaks to the implicit misogyny of the GG movement when they are convinced the foremost female voice of feminism in gaming is secretly controlled and told what to say by a man. She isn't, Fem Freq is an organization but to deny that McIntosh hasn't had any impact on her or her popularity is wrong:  That's Evilore, who runs Neo-Gaf. An 'SJW Bastion' according to GG. He clearly doesn't like GG or 8chan and the topic has been a bannable offense there since forever and a day. McIntosh occasionally manages the FemFreq twitter account, which is fine. Plenty of organizations have people who do this. The problem is that McIntosh is very, very bad at his job. Which in turn makes her look bad. And leads to stuff like this. EDIT: Jack Gladney posted:I am not very informed on the current state of video game scholarship myself. Do you have some citations handy for feminist scholarship that offers deeper or more substantial analysis of video games? Also, please help me determine the appropriate level of depth for a youtube video describing video games. I don't know enough to do it on my own. Videogame scholarship is poo poo and will probably continue to be poo poo, whether you are looking in the social sciences or psychological studies. A large majority you can't just read the conclusions, you have to read the detailed methodology completely (which means paying for it) and investigate the researchers, because massive amounts on all sides have agendas they want to discover. Dapper Dan fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Jul 3, 2015 |
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Jul 3, 2015 03:32
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OMG JC a Bomb! posted:Haha, I actually really like McIntosh. It seems like he goes to every single super hero movie ever, only to be stunned that it includes huge men/aliens/mutants punching each other for hours, which sends him on tirades about how all violence is toxic masculinity. He reminds me of that evangelical Capalert guy who used to go see R-rated movies while meticulously writing down every instance of swearing and nudity. Oh, and then there's this classic: Boy that sure if a funny quote why don't you respond to the three different people calling you out on claiming Anita wouldn't stand up to academic feminism
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Jul 3, 2015 03:33
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OMG JC a Bomb! posted:Haha, I actually really like McIntosh. It seems like he goes to every single super hero movie ever, only to be stunned that it includes huge men/aliens/mutants punching each other for hours, which sends him on tirades about how all violence is toxic masculinity. He reminds me of that evangelical Capalert guy who used to go see R-rated movies while meticulously writing down every instance of swearing and nudity. Oh, and then there's this classic: Hey just wondering if you're going to be one of those people who just completely dodges away from confronting your embarrassing fuckups, or whether you're going to deal with how badly you've failed in your criticisms of Sarkeesian. If directly saying this is too much, just link to another libertarian criticizing her as a sign that you're just going to continue bumblefucking along without any hint of self-criticism. Also I've just looked at this McIntosh for the first time but no, he's not stunned by what's in superhero movies, he thinks it's a part of our culture that we tend to have male heroes that are unemotional and stoic and express feelings through violence. I assume you brought the same effort to reading his stuff that you did to thinking Machinima was a good comparison to Feminist Frequency. Dapper Dan posted:
Good thing nobody did that, eh? quote:. Plenty of organizations have people who do this. The problem is that McIntosh is very, very bad at his job. Which in turn makes her look bad. And leads to stuff like this. Looking at his twitter he really doesn't seem bad at it, if his job is to make pretty simple and accessible criticisms of the way that men are portrayed in games and how that's problematic, and also for some reason put up pictures of kittens in snow, and also make the occasional decent joke. I assume there's more to it, though, but the quality of criticism I've seen aimed at Sarkeesian so far really doesn't make me that hopeful about the criticism aimed at him. Obdicut fucked around with this message at 03:39 on Jul 3, 2015 |
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Jul 3, 2015 03:35
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Dapper Dan posted:
What does this have to do with anything
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Jul 3, 2015 03:36
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Mel Mudkiper posted:Boy that sure if a funny quote why don't you respond to the three different people calling you out on claiming Anita wouldn't stand up to academic feminism I've seen multiple people in this thread defending Anita, but saying that her criticisms weren't exactly academic. I think you're the only one I've seen saying that they're on par with people who DO contribute to academic publications. It's like those books that Fox News personalities write about historical figures. Sure, they seem to be passionate about the subject and know a fair amount about it, but the research standards, citations, and general quality of writing aren't in the same league as the countless academics who have written about the same subjects. Maybe she's trying to make the topic more accessible to the general public or something.
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Jul 3, 2015 03:38
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