|
Bholder posted:That's the thing though, every counter argument becomes an unwarranted and sexist attack on women. What are some good counterarguments that were deflected by baseless accusations of sexism? When somebody disagrees with a criticism of Feminist Frequency, are they always making Anita Sarkeesian the epitome of feminist standards and saying that any criticism of Feminist Frequency means siding with assholes who can only speak in profanity?
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2015 19:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 22:10 |
|
|
Fluo posted:A snuff video is someone actually being killed in real life. Do you understand the difference between reality and fantasy? I think it's pretty obvious that people who fantasize about murdering people in a neonazi game are trying to blur that difference, hence the necessity of censorship. Or are you saying that you're okay with child pornography as long as it's drawn on paper?
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2015 19:40
|
|
|
pathetic little tramp posted:I think it's pretty obvious that people who fantasize about murdering people in a neonazi game are trying to blur that difference, hence the necessity of censorship. Or are you saying that you're okay with child pornography as long as it's drawn on paper? It wasn't a neo nazi video game.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2015 19:41
|
|
|
Fluo posted:It wasn't a neo nazi video game. People keep going back to that, okay fine it's not a neo-nazi video game, it's a video game where you forcefully hold a screaming woman down, put a gun in her mouth and blow her brains out in glorious detail, but it wasn't made by nazis so no big whoop.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2015 19:43
|
|
|
pathetic little tramp posted:People keep going back to that, okay fine it's not a neo-nazi video game, it's a video game where you forcefully hold a screaming woman down, put a gun in her mouth and blow her brains out in glorious detail, but it wasn't made by nazis so no big whoop. Please present evidence of it being a neo-nazi game.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2015 19:45
|
|
|
I thought the developers had posted stuff on their personal facebooks from various far-right nationalist groups.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2015 19:46
|
|
|
kustomkarkommando posted:I thought the developers had posted stuff on their personal facebooks from various far-right nationalist groups. This got debunked about a week after the claim. It seems rich white Americans can't tell the difference between Polish punk/metal bands and neo-nazis.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2015 19:48
|
|
|
pathetic little tramp posted:Sure we do, it's not legal to sell a snuff video; censorship is an important thing that has its place and I think censoring neonazi murder fantasy games is one of its important functions. The only thing to debate is how far censorship should go. Anyone would agree that the neonazi snuff game needs banned, but there could probably be arguments made to ban those games where you have to crush naked women in giant cogs to progress. "Snuff films" as commonly defined are pretty much an urban legend and if by snuff you mean videos of people actually dying you absolutely can sell that sort of thing in America. Also just because somebody on Hatred's dev team clicked "like" on a Facebook page that posts Islamophobic stuff doesn't mean the game is neonazi propaganda made by a dev team made entirely of neonazis
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2015 19:48
|
|
|
a retard posted:"Snuff films" as commonly defined are pretty much an urban legend and if by snuff you mean videos of people actually dying you absolutely can sell that sort of thing in America. Also just because somebody on Hatred's dev team clicked "like" on a Facebook page that posts Islamophobic stuff doesn't mean the game is neonazi propaganda made by a dev team made entirely of neonazis Okay it's not a neonazi game fine, it's really amazing how unhingedly slobbering mad some of you are getting over that word. It's just a snuff-simulation video game with realistic depictions of violent torture that absolutely should be censored because in America we do actually have limits on our free expression and that falls under it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2015 19:50
|
|
|
pathetic little tramp posted:Okay it's not a neonazi game fine, it's really amazing how unhingedly slobbering mad some of you are getting over that word. It's just a snuff-simulation video game with realistic depictions of violent torture that absolutely should be censored because in America we do actually have limits on our free expression and that falls under it. Words have meanings, misusing words long enough they lose all meaning. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9Hrm_6wssI
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2015 19:51
|
|
|
whether or not it's a neo-nazi game or whatever it's still a piece of loving dogshit and the makers where laughing all the way to the bank thanks to the controversy the game caused and the sensitive idiots willing to buy a lovely game because of it. The game is a stupid piece of crap without merit and it does not deserve being defended by anyone in any capacity. Does it have the right to exist? Yeah, it does - loving congratulations to the game for the amazing achievement of existing. Calico Heart fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Jul 3, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2015 19:51
|
|
|
Honestly, you can find far more violent stuff than Hatred in movies. The Passion which many people brought their kids to was a 2 hour rear end beating in heavy detail. In any case, Hatred is only one game out of the tons of violent games out there. I actually think the violence did the game a disservice because while all eyes were on it for a while, when the game actually came out, many people realized that that was all the game had.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2015 19:51
|
|
|
pathetic little tramp posted:Okay it's not a neonazi game fine, it's really amazing how unhingedly slobbering mad some of you are getting over that word. It's just a snuff-simulation video game with realistic depictions of violent torture that absolutely should be censored because in America we do actually have limits on our free expression and that falls under it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2015 19:52
|
|
|
Calico Heart posted:whether or not it's a neo-nazi game or whatever it's still a piece of poo poo and the makers where laughing all the way to the bank thanks to the controversy the game caused. The only people to blame really are the kneejerk outrage. It's not a good game mechanically and repetitive. Instead of just ignoring it, they needed their weekly outrage topic of the week, which ended up getting all the angsty teenagers buying it. The funny thing about it though, it's such a b movie cheese fest after I saw someone playing it I was laughing at how people took it so serious.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2015 19:54
|
|
|
Fluo posted:Words have meanings, misusing words long enough they lose all meaning. I don't think it really matters whether it's a neonazi game or not, I think the content which should obviously be censored matters, unless you're the sort who thinks child porn is a-ok if it's drawn instead of using real people; I just think it's funny that I'm calmly presenting this game as unnecessarily violent and I immediately get a bunch of people furiously typing at me, crying that it's not a neonazi game, how dare i think that, and it's unfair for me to say it. I mean there are forests and there are trees and I think some of the angrier people in this thread need to think about which one they're missing for the other.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2015 19:56
|
|
|
blackguy32 posted:Honestly, you can find far more violent stuff than Hatred in movies. The Passion which many people brought their kids to was a 2 hour rear end beating in heavy detail. In any case, Hatred is only one game out of the tons of violent games out there. The Serbian Film is the only movie I can think of I refuse to ever watch. That's something I don't need in my life so I'm not going to watch it. So I just ignore it. People seem to have a hard time doing this with regard to video games for some reason. :I
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2015 19:57
|
|
|
Fluo posted:The only people to blame really are the kneejerk outrage. It's not a good game mechanically and repetitive. Instead of just ignoring it, they needed their weekly outrage topic of the week, which ended up getting all the angsty teenagers buying it. I think this was more or less the AO rating than anything else.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2015 19:58
|
|
|
Fluo posted:The only people to blame really are the kneejerk outrage. It's not a good game mechanically and repetitive. Instead of just ignoring it, they needed their weekly outrage topic of the week, which ended up getting all the angsty teenagers buying it. It wasn't just angsty teens, it was morons who thought buying it was making some kind of statement or reddit babies who hated tumblr babies doing it out of spite. Game websites are hugely to blame for talking about it beyond "new game coming out, it's obviously stupid to anyone with a brain"
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2015 19:59
|
|
|
pathetic little tramp posted:Sure we do, it's not legal to sell a snuff video; censorship is an important thing that has its place and I think censoring neonazi murder fantasy games is one of its important functions. The only thing to debate is how far censorship should go. Anyone would agree that the neonazi snuff game needs banned, but there could probably be arguments made to ban those games where you have to crush naked women in giant cogs to progress. If it makes any difference, I realized you were trolling almost immediately and nobody else did.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2015 20:01
|
|
|
Hatred, like Witcher 3, is a valuable part of Polish Culture and hence cannot be criticized.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2015 20:02
|
|
|
pathetic little tramp posted:I don't think it really matters whether it's a neonazi game or not, I think the content which should obviously be censored matters, unless you're the sort who thinks child porn is a-ok if it's drawn instead of using real people; I just think it's funny that I'm calmly presenting this game as unnecessarily violent and I immediately get a bunch of people furiously typing at me, crying that it's not a neonazi game, how dare i think that, and it's unfair for me to say it. I think it does matter whether it's a neonazi game or not, after you calling it a neonazi game over and over without presenting evidence then backpedalling it seems you have an agenda to push. If you're going on about paedophilia I'd say that's quite topical with regard to Zeitgeuist. Just do you understand, the world is not black and white "censorship is good" vs "censorship is bad", most normal rational people understand the difference between banning child porn and trying to ban a game where you shoot pixel targets.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2015 20:03
|
|
|
Popular Thug Drink posted:Not every criticism is an unwarranted and sexist attack on women. Just the ones that focus on a woman's sexuality, appearance, intelligence, morality, motivations, etc. The silencing goes both ways, who cares what a bigot would say on the matter. It was even worse when it was decided that the main way to fight harassment was to embrace the victimhood and give harassers the attention instead of what these women are actually doing. I mean I don't know any of Anita's public appearance that was about her videos but it was nearly always about how terrible it is to be the most hated person on the planet. Most people in this very thread don't know or even care about what those videos are about, but she is woman who gets mean messages in her mailbox every day so she must be right about everything. Thankfully things have mellowed out nowadays since she has started to focus on things other than herself again, but on the other hand she decided that Jack Thompson was right and violence is what's wrong with video games and it turns people misogynistic and people who used to follow her now calls her out on this. Jack Gladney posted:What are some good counterarguments that were deflected by baseless accusations of sexism? When somebody disagrees with a criticism of Feminist Frequency, are they always making Anita Sarkeesian the epitome of feminist standards and saying that any criticism of Feminist Frequency means siding with assholes who can only speak in profanity? Uh, yes?
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2015 20:05
|
|
|
Bholder posted:she decided that Jack Thompson was right So she does agree with GG on something!
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2015 20:06
|
|
|
blackguy32 posted:I think this was more or less the AO rating than anything else. The AO rating controversy was manufactured by the developers as they didn't need to get a rating for their game on steam (which is the only place it would be going on sale) and wanted to add fuel to the fire. It was good PR to get edgelords to buy their game. People seem to never learn, all publicity is good publicity. Take Human-centipede, that movie was a pile of steaming hot poo poo, but being so bad it got popular and people went to see it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2015 20:07
|
|
|
Bholder posted:
In your view, what would an appropriate response have been? If you were in her place, and received death threats and misogynistic comments, how would you address that as a public figure?
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2015 20:12
|
|
|
Bholder posted:The silencing goes both ways, who cares what a bigot would say on the matter. Criticizing harassment of someone or pointing out that the harassment demonstrates deeper cultural problems necessarily means that the criticized person must be right about everything? Defending someone against a specific charge means that you believe everything they've ever done is beyond reproach? I may be beginning to understand the criticism of Feminist Frequency now.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2015 20:13
|
|
|
computer parts posted:Hatred, like Witcher 3, is a valuable part of Polish Culture and hence cannot be criticized. Witcher is a valuable part of Polish Culture, Hatred is just a bad game that rather than being ignored got the outrage mob to send it into the spotlight getting it top of steam. It would be like comparing Terry Pratchett's Disc World series and Russel Brand's Booky Wook as British culture.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2015 20:14
|
|
|
Fluo posted:The only people to blame really are the kneejerk outrage. It's not a good game mechanically and repetitive. Instead of just ignoring it, they needed their weekly outrage topic of the week, which ended up getting all the angsty teenagers buying it. Its not hard to manipulate people into taking things seriously. Remember Dead Island? The completly worthless piece of poo poo zombie game that people only even took notice of because of the trailer where a little girl turns into a zombie while somber music plays? Right after this trailer came out every 30 year old new father on forums across the internet wouldn't shut up about how touching this was. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ialZcLaI17Y Of course you buy the game and start it up only to get this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_pa0GO7bnE Oh, and every zombie takes 500 hits to kill, and each weapon has about 5 hits of durability on it. Thank god they cemented in the preorders with the fee fee trailer before everyone could start talkin about how bad the game was.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2015 20:14
|
|
|
Meme Emulator posted:Oh, and every zombie takes 500 hits to kill, and each weapon has about 5 hits of durability on it. Thank god they cemented in the preorders with the fee fee trailer before everyone could start talkin about how bad the game was. At this point Steams refunded system is going to do more to bring ethics to video game journalism then a thousand tweets/articles/email campaigns. And with a bonus of killing lovely indie games as well!
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2015 20:19
|
|
|
pathetic little tramp posted:Okay it's not a neonazi game fine, it's really amazing how unhingedly slobbering mad some of you are getting over that word. It's just a snuff-simulation video game with realistic depictions of violent torture that absolutely should be censored because in America we do actually have limits on our free expression and that falls under it. No it shouldn't be censored. I see no need to censor that game save for making sure children cannot purchase it due to its violent nature. This is like saying SAW or POSTAL need to be censored. Should it be mocked? In my opinion yes, its not a very good game. Should it be discussed? Absolutely, its a mediocre game that got famous due to the controversy it started. I dislike my arguments becoming personal, so please don't take offence. But if Hatred should be censored, what else should be? Mortal Kombat seems pretty violent... The "NO russian" level in Call of duty has lots of implied violence and a seemingly more tragic impact on the player, should that be censored? Edit: Overall I think that when we ask "Why should this be censored" there isn't a clear answer that is being given. That can be a little frustrating which is why everyone jumps to defend hatred, because they believe there isn't any grounds to censor the game. This doesn't mean they endorse hatred or think its good. Exmond fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Jul 3, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2015 20:21
|
|
|
Meme Emulator posted:Its not hard to manipulate people into taking things seriously. Remember Dead Island? The completly worthless piece of poo poo zombie game that people only even took notice of because of the trailer where a little girl turns into a zombie while somber music plays? Dead Island was a terrible terrible game. The only outrage I remember about it though was the special edition preorder which was like, you'd get a womans torsh in a British flag bikini but that might have been that second one. But I totally understand and agree. I remember people getting manipulated into Duke Nukem Forever and it was like this forced hype, so you had half of Game & YCS buying it saying how great it is then it being one of the worst games of that year. Consumer culture I guess. BexGu posted:At this point Steams refunded system is going to do more to bring ethics to video game journalism then a thousand tweets/articles/email campaigns. Voting with your wallet in a capitalist system is the only vote the higher ups care about. It's why when it got announced you had a handful of indie devs who are well known for making terrible games which you only discover after buying it (because the trailers are all cinematic and 0 gameplay). I do find it weird though, as Steam has had the refund system for awhile in the EU because it was breaking their 28day refund policy. So all digital media with regard to itunes, steam, amazon and such you can refund in an allotted time. I can't remember what the play length was though was between 2-10 hours, maybe 8 hours or something. But they kept it hush hush for obvious reasons. Glad it is well known now since they announced the world wide steam refund policy. Fluo fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Jul 3, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2015 20:21
|
|
|
Fluo posted:This got debunked about a week after the claim. can you link the video or something cause the only thing I'm finding is the developers arguing that they only like far-right anti immigration groups because they are willing to report things "the media" are too afraid to report, then attacking a "far left" anti fascist group for tarring innocent patriotic poles as Nazis.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2015 20:23
|
|
|
This is the ending to the game people have called "very realistic". There was worry and genuine concern that it would surely make people into violent neo-nazis and/or cause societal collapse, and as such the principles concerning the freedom of artistic expression should be curtailed, as it would be in cases of actual snuff films or child pornography, to censor this harmful material and prevent whatever devastating tears to the delicate fabric of civilization that binds us all together in mutual respect should it be released to the general public: (please do not watch if you care about spoilers to the overarching narrative of "Hatred"): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9m7EKBof6g I, personally, am not of the opinion that the failure of the letter writing campaign to Steam designed to keep "Hatred" from being greenlit has resulted in this video being a literal window into our literal future, much less something that affects anyone in any long-term way, ever. My evidence to support this claim is the actual videogame "Hatred".
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2015 20:28
|
|
|
kustomkarkommando posted:can you link the video or something cause the only thing I'm finding is the developers arguing that they only like far-right anti immigration groups because they are willing to report things "the media" are too afraid to report, then attacking a "far left" anti fascist group for tarring innocent patriotic poles as Nazis. I think the entire 'debunkment' was that the ceo said "Our grandfathers fought in World War 2, we can't possibly be racist" which is the historical equivalent of "I've got a black friend" (they couldn't use this, Poland has no black people, as the Witcher proves) Meanwhile a dude at the Polish equivalent of the SPLC commented on these groups and said "Yeah, these are actively terrible racist groups"
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2015 20:29
|
|
|
kustomkarkommando posted:can you link the video or something cause the only thing I'm finding is the developers arguing that they only like far-right anti immigration groups because they are willing to report things "the media" are too afraid to report, then attacking a "far left" anti fascist group for tarring innocent patriotic poles as Nazis. The dude uploads far too many and too long videos for me to find the 4minute segment. But from what I know the page he liked was a right wing Polish punk band but wasn't neo nazi/far right. So I guess it'd be like (can only really properly explain it in British politic system) being traditional Conservative pinstripe, Thatcher era. Rather than say the BNP, EDL and such. But then again, Thatcher and UK Conservative party are scum of the earth. I just wouldn't call them Neo-nazis. More so just tory scum. To give you an idea: http://rt.com/uk/183156-tory-enoch-powell-race/ they are evil, but Nazism is a very defined word. As I'm left wing, I'm not defending their right wing views, I'm just saying the misuse of neo-nazi and nazi dampens the strength of the word. As you see with the over use of the word anti-Semitic Israel throws out towards any criticism of their government. If you read the Daily Mail (I don't recommend you ever do this) you will get a picture of what I mean by Tory scum. Causally Islamophobic, xenophobic, racist, homophobic and such. Same for the Daily Express (with added Princess Diana Royal Family circejerk). An easier way to put it, it'd be like calling a Socialist "Pol Pot" 
Fluo fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Jul 3, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2015 20:37
|
|
|
Fluo posted:The dude uploads far too many and too long videos for me to find the 4minute segment. But from what I know the page he liked was a right wing Polish punk band but wasn't neo nazi/far right. So I guess it'd be like (can only really properly explain it in British politic system) being traditional Conservative pinstripe, Thatcher era. Rather than say the BNP, EDL and such. I tried finding his facebook to look myself but the first result has a picture of him with the Confederate flag overlayed as a watermark. Don't know if it's his actual facebook or not but lol
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2015 20:44
|
|
|
kustomkarkommando posted:I tried finding his facebook to look myself but the first result has a picture of him with the Confederate flag overlayed as a watermark. It's a toss of a coin if it actually is, as the guy is an xXxEdgeyEdgeLordxXx.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2015 20:46
|
|
|
Fluo posted:It's a toss of a coin if it actually is, as the guy is an xXxEdgeyEdgeLordxXx. Getting angry for being accused of far-right sympathies when you display far-right symbols and actively court outrage is dumb
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2015 20:48
|
|
|
I've gotten the impression that the developers of Hatred enjoy the occasional bit of shitstirring.
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2015 20:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 22:10 |
|
|
Fluo posted:The dude uploads far too many and too long videos for me to find the 4minute segment. But from what I know the page he liked was a right wing Polish punk band but wasn't neo nazi/far right. So I guess it'd be like (can only really properly explain it in British politic system) being traditional Conservative pinstripe, Thatcher era. Rather than say the BNP, EDL and such. One of the groups that a Hatred developer 'liked' is known for patrolling night clubs to make sure that dirty Muslim men don't talk to pure Polish women and vice versa. http://www.thenews.pl/1/9/Artykul/158678,AntiIslamic-group-patrols-clubs-to-protect-Polish-women http://wroclawuncut.com/2014/01/15/polish-defence-league-patrolling-nightclubs/ http://www.islamophobiawatch.co.uk/anti-islamic-group-patrols-clubs-to-protect-polish-women/ If this wasn't enough they've also tried to create a little black book of known Muslims. http://rt.com/news/269407-poland-far-right-muslims/ Certainly don't get any EDL/BNP vibes from them, not even Tommeh and Dick, I beg your pardon, Nick Griffin have gone quite that far (in public at least)
|
|
#
?
Jul 3, 2015 20:48
|
|