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Obdicut posted:I mean the writers who work for IGN, Gamespot, Gamefaqs, as well as the games journalists that work for the standard media outlets rather than the games-specific journals. I'm not sure how you're operationalization 'clout', can you explain? http://www.theesa.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/ESA-Essential-Facts-2015.pdf Nobody really gives a poo poo about games journalism at this point, it factors like 2 to 3 percent of the time. It falls just below "look of the packaging" and can be surpassed by a guy with a face-cam and a youtube account. (face-cam optional)
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Jul 4, 2015 19:05
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Junkfist posted:http://www.theesa.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/ESA-Essential-Facts-2015.pdf Sorry, but I think that data is based on self-reporting, which is a terrible way to get data on 'what influenced you to do x". For example, they say that the game has an interesting story or premise, at 22%--how did they know that the game had an interesting story or premise? Do you have the raws for that?
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Jul 4, 2015 19:09
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No, what do you rely on to support the idea that modern games journalism is super good and important?
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Jul 4, 2015 19:12
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Junkfist posted:No, what do you rely on to support the idea that modern games journalism is super good and important? I don't think anyone sensible believes that it is. It seems to be a sticking point with GG that it should, however, even though nobody actually believes it to be so. Even GG, if they're being honest (which they very rarely are)
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Jul 4, 2015 19:15
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Junkfist posted:No, what do you rely on to support the idea that modern games journalism is super good and important? I don't think it is super good, or important definitely--I'm betting you haven't read almost any of my other posts on the subject. What I'm saying is that the GG focus on the indie press is not because the indie press has more ethical problems than the mainstream press, but because the indie press approaches games from a more serious and cultural criticism point of view whereas the mainstream journalists tend to simply treat it as a product. In terms of clout, I do think the big sites have quite a lot of draw because they have access and provide a kind of stable table of reviews, but that people aren't reading IGN and saying "IGN thinks it's good, therefore I'll buy it" they're going "IGN says it has these features, I like these features, therefore I'll buy it".
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Jul 4, 2015 19:16
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Obdicut posted:I don't think it is super good, or important definitely--I'm betting you haven't read almost any of my other posts on the subject. What I'm saying is that the GG focus on the indie press is not because the indie press has more ethical problems than the mainstream press, but because the indie press approaches games from a more serious and cultural criticism point of view whereas the mainstream journalists tend to simply treat it as a product. In terms of clout, I do think the big sites have quite a lot of draw because they have access and provide a kind of stable table of reviews, but that people aren't reading IGN and saying "IGN thinks it's good, therefore I'll buy it" they're going "IGN says it has these features, I like these features, therefore I'll buy it". IGN scores are a running joke. Polygon and Kotaku are constant targets of ridicule. I don't know what you're talking about.
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Jul 4, 2015 19:19
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Obdicut posted:First, GGers precise complaint about a lot of people is that they're saying things. Jesus goddamn if you sat down for one second and checked the facts on the situation you'd arrive at a non stupid conclucision, instead of whatever "THAT" is... Obdicut posted:Um, that' s my point. If it's just a meaningless phrase that carries no weight, it's fine to stop doing it, right? Nobody loses anything, it gets rid of vestigial language and nobody cares that it's gone? Monkey-flipping Yeahcopter! You just don't get it do you? Are you blind to your own Cognitive Dissonance (http://i.imgur.com/GN9QATK.jpg here's a definition from this game that's meant for people with two braincells to rub together. ) ? The issue is this, the cabal has been striking out at key targets in the past month. Suppressing us and honing their information control techniques. Not to mention that they have been stealing the worlds gold reserves. They are trying to control all of our Confirmation Bias's so they can suppress and control the flow of the various social complexes that have evolved in our various microcosmic societies. Minarchist posted:Language, phrases and memes exist because enough people agree on the meanings of certain sounds and concepts. "loving rear end in a top hat" means "This person is being antisocial and has behaved in a manner which is unbecoming of a member of a society in a violent, deceitful, or unpleasant manner and I am expressing my extreme dislike for that person" Ever heard of Occam's Razor, my friend?  Obdicut posted:Oh, it's because many GGers claim it's about ethics in games journalism, and the actual activities of GG seem to be complaining about cultural criticism of games. Jesus! You just don't get it! Please learn to reason like an adult, please!
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Jul 4, 2015 19:22
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Junkfist posted:IGN scores are a running joke. Well, you don't really seem to be reading anything I'm writing, so that might be why. I agree IGN scores are a running joke. That's why I said: people aren't reading IGN and saying "IGN thinks it's good, therefore I'll buy it" they're going "IGN says it has these features, I like these features, therefore I'll buy it". In other words, people don't care what score IGN gives the game, but they read the review for the description of the features the game has. That's also why I responded to the data you gave me by pointing out that if they buy the game due to the story or the concept, they need to learn about that from some source. Advertisements, trailers, and the big sites are major sources of that information. Dongicus posted:... You're kind of adorable, but could you give your posts a little bit more Max from Max and Sam: Freelance Police, please?
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Jul 4, 2015 19:25
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Obdicut posted:First, GGers precise complaint about a lot of people is that they're saying things. When did the poster ever say that about supporting that type of opinion? We aren't talking about the holocaust we are talking about video games. There is nothing stopping from someone in having an opinion. When the author makes something, then the whole "Death of author thing" comes into play and its up to you if the authors opinion affects your purchasing decision. On the other hand mocking a product or whatever is totally allowed. We can make fun of the shakeweight or Hatred (because its a terrible video game). The weird fuzzy part comes in where people are saying "You are shaming women out of the industry" and wether or not that accusation is valid, and then how to change/act upon that accusation. Exmond fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Jul 4, 2015 |
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Jul 4, 2015 19:26
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Obdicut posted:By the way, you never answered if you see a problem with the phrase "Don't Jew me on this deal". Do you? drat...  ? I'm getting gypped here  Sure, it's bigoted and lovely speech. It's not going away anytime soon. And honestly I don't really care if people say lovely things. That's on them, and it's on other people to get all upset over it. There's so much other poo poo I have to worry about that offensive racial jokes are really low on my priority list. I'm more worried about being broke. Obdicut posted:indie press approaches games from a more serious and cultural criticism point of view  Why, though? they're GAMES. you play them to ESCAPE reality, not critique them for problematic behavior. Review a game on whether it's fun or not. Leisure Suit Larry was amazing but no one cares you literally suicide in the gutter when you get a pixellated STD from a hooker because life isn't worth living anymore.
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Jul 4, 2015 19:28
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Exmond posted:When did the poster ever say that about supporting that type of opinion? We aren't talking about the holocaust we are talking about video games. There is nothing stopping from someone in having an opinion. That poster was saying the phrase "Be a man" and "Don't be a woman" are just phrases that mean something without any rhetorical weight to them. I'm pointing out that by that argument, you could claim the same about "Don't Jew me on this". I'm not sure why you're bringing up the holocaust, and you are indeed right there is nothing stopping anyone from having an opinion, but that seems rather obvious.
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Jul 4, 2015 19:29
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Obdicut posted:Well, you don't really seem to be reading anything I'm writing, so that might be why. Oh, is that correct? Try this on for size, idiot. You can argue it only applies to the government (which is mainstream), that it needs to be a value in society should uphold and strive towards (which is debatable, although I support it), and that nothing should ever be censored for whatever reason. (an argument for it, but it's pretty extreme) Gamergate has taken the position that it is a value and an ethic that people and industries should uphold. The opponents have taken the position that it's only applicable to the governments, and even as far as it's morally good to censor things that promote undesirable elements in our society, like sexism and violence. That is a debate I'm really interested in and is far more intellectual, but alas people keep going back to debating if gamergate is a misogynist conspiracy or not. That's why they choked the black manto death for smoking. What if he would have sold those cigarettes to children? http://m.snopes.com/2015/06/02/manspreading-arrest/ Other biased sites like breitbart went crazy about it. But the snopes article correctly, though disingenuously suggests that since "manspreading" doesn't have a particular criminal code, they were obviously not arrested for manspreading. The violation is a standard "subway ticket" that you would get for passing between cars, sleeping, etc. IT JUST SO HAPPENS that these two people had outstanding warrants and when they were ticketed for the violation of "manspreading" they had their IDs run and lo and behold, they had other outstanding warrants. so therefore no one should ever complain about this Just and Necessary policy, that just so happens to target males who happen to be darker then a paper bag. Also apparently stop and frisk was cool and good too.
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Jul 4, 2015 19:29
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Minarchist posted:Why, though? they're GAMES. you play them to ESCAPE reality, not critique them for problematic behavior. Review a game on whether it's fun or not. Leisure Suit Larry was amazing but no one cares you literally suicide in the gutter when you get a pixellated STD from a hooker because life isn't worth living anymore. On the other hand people play games to EXPERIENCE a DIFFERENT REALITY, and I think the industry is big enough to support those games while also having my pew pew die space marine game.
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Jul 4, 2015 19:30
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Dongicus posted:Ever heard of Occam's Razor, my friend? Yes...? But if there's a solution please tell us, your post is implying there's some glaringly obvious truth that we're missing.
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Jul 4, 2015 19:31
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Minarchist posted:Yes...? But if there's a solution please tell us, your post is implying there's some glaringly obvious truth that we're missing.
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Jul 4, 2015 19:32
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Minarchist posted:drat... Cool to use a racial slur in reply, that's real edgy. quote:Sure, it's bigoted and lovely speech. It's not going away anytime soon. And honestly I don't really care if people say lovely things. That's on them, and it's on other people to get all upset over it. There's so much other poo poo I have to worry about that offensive racial jokes are really low on my priority list. I'm more worried about being broke. That's nifty and all, but it has nothing to do with what I asked you. You seem to accept that "Don't Jew me on this" implies something negative about Jews. So, why does "Don't be a woman about this" not imply something negative about women? Why does 'be a man' not say something negative about men who don't confirm to masculine stereotypes? Did you read the article about how you're wrong about the "Women and children first" thing, by the way? It's pretty interesting. Did you give any thought to what you'd do if a woman was rescuing you, or perhaps another man in a disaster situation? Would you grab her and say "You're a woman, we need to get you to safety because I'm expendable and you're not?" quote:Why, though? they're GAMES. you play them to ESCAPE reality, not critique them for problematic behavior. Review a game on whether it's fun or not. Leisure Suit Larry was amazing but no one cares you literally suicide in the gutter when you get a pixellated STD from a hooker because life isn't worth living anymore. Okay, some games actually attempt to address serious issues, rather than engage in escapism. In fact, the exact defense of the 'mechanical apartheid' phrase was that they were really engaging with that idea. Perhaps back in the pong and tetris era, games were just simple escapism, but games these days are more complex than this. Minarchist posted:Yes...? But if there's a solution please tell us, your post is implying there's some glaringly obvious truth that we're missing. Dude for gently caress's sake, did you notice the bit about the cabal and poo poo?
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Jul 4, 2015 19:33
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Minarchist posted:drat... What do you do when people disagree with you? It's not a violation of your rights if you're in the minority or if there are people who demand a higher level of discourse than the one you'd like.
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Jul 4, 2015 19:37
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I don't know why we're excluding youtube cameraface peoples from journalism judgements; they recieve preview copies and are paid out the rear end to suggest positive things about the game, just like press sites. It's also an avenue that has supported/opposed gamergate, just like site press. It feels like people are trying to pretend that game feminism is going to disappear with press sites becoming irrelevent, which seems nonsensical and impossible to coincide with their belief that Anita Sarkeesian is the queen bee of the uberSJW's.
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Jul 4, 2015 19:39
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Obdicut posted:Well, you don't really seem to be reading anything I'm writing, so that might be why. Obdicut posted:What I'm saying is that the GG focus on the indie press is not because the indie press has more ethical problems than the mainstream press, but because the indie press approaches games from a more serious and cultural criticism point of view whereas the mainstream journalists tend to simply treat it as a product. GG doesn't have a focus on the indie press. Kotaku and Polygon aren't indie press. That's like saying a Patricia Hernandez "I raped you" article or Stephen Totillo's mind-meld with Chris Benoit from playing a WWE game or Tauriq Moussa's tweets on Fire Emblem form "a more serious and cultural criticism point of view". These aren't serious. They're bait for some sort of audience or attention or revenue as their superfluous industry continues to fall apart. At least I hope that's what it is, because the alternative is that they're being genuine and serious in which case oh boy.
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Jul 4, 2015 19:43
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Junkfist posted:GG doesn't have a focus on the indie press. Okay, to me they are, I guess we're just using different terms. Sorry about that. quote:That's like saying a Patricia Hernandez "I raped you" article or Stephen Totillo's mind-meld with Chris Benoit from playing a WWE game or Tauriq Moussa's tweets on Fire Emblem form "a more serious and cultural criticism point of view". I have no idea what you're talking about, I'm afraid, I've never read any of these. quote:These aren't serious. Alright. Do you think there's any good cultural criticism of games at all, anywhere? or that it's possible? I agree that game journalism is largely superfluous, but like the RPS guys--they're pretty much all I read, and I think their commentary is often pretty good, and it definitely often has cultural critique aspects.
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Jul 4, 2015 19:47
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We can all agree on the fact there is not a massive misogynist conspiracy to destroy women, nor is there a massive feminist conspiracy to destroy men. Can we also agree that implicit behaviors and societal expectations are tailored towards a patriarchal society rather than a feminist one? That even if someone who is arguing for GG may not be a misogynist, the behaviors and expectations they have for women may be flawed?
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Jul 4, 2015 19:48
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Junkfist posted:GG doesn't have a focus on the indie press. Polygon and 'serious cultural criticism' are two things that definitely do not belong together unless followed by a hearty laugh. Minarchist posted:
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Jul 4, 2015 19:51
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Honestly, it seems like a lot of gamergate supporters just have trouble letting go of the belief that Good People Dont Do Bad Things. The idea that someone is capable of being well-meaning but do something wrong, or that a game can have a non-mechanical flaw while still being good is literally incomprehensible to some of them. It also explains all the Anita hate and delving into pointless niche's of her life; She saud zelda is bad! Zelda isnt bad! Im not bad for liking zelda! I will prove that she is a bad person so that I am not bad! Its like the people who cant argue with D&D posters, so they find a random social media person calling themselves an otherkin trans-mallard. To prove They are not bad, Other people bad.
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Jul 4, 2015 19:56
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Exmond posted:On the other hand people play games to EXPERIENCE a DIFFERENT REALITY, and I think the industry is big enough to support those games while also having my pew pew die space marine game. You're right! Just played Doom3 for the first time in 10+ years, pew pew die isn't as fun as I remembered Had a lot more fun playing Rust lately, also Paradox mapgames and Total War. Cautiously looking forward to Fallout 4 but I might be happier with the New Vegas version of it that comes out 2 years later  Cingulate posted:Haha Dongicus somebody actually replied to you! Sorry I've been probated for a week (5000+ gamergate thread posts already?  ) and I don't spend all day on D&D so if someone's the token threadshitter lately I don't know who they are.Obdicut posted:Cool to use a racial slur in reply, that's real edgy. Not trying to be edgy, its just that particular term is somehow more appropriate than "drat I got jewed on that deal" for some reason, I've never seen anyone get the "whoa hold up bro" treatment from that phrase even though it has the same meaning. Obdicut posted:That's nifty and all, but it has nothing to do with what I asked you. You seem to accept that "Don't Jew me on this" implies something negative about Jews. So, why does "Don't be a woman about this" not imply something negative about women? Why does 'be a man' not say something negative about men who don't confirm to masculine stereotypes? Because men and women tend (not always) to have certain behavior patterns, and deviating from established gender roles tends to cause confusion and discord. I don't consider "man strong, woman weak" to be that derogatory when "woman warm, man cold" is also a stereotype. I have to lift heavy things at work when a woman with a lot more education than I do asks me to. Do I feel demeaned? No, because I'm physically capable of doing something they are not by virtue of being a man. If they want to take a ton of steroids and hit the gym for 6 hours a day, great! Until then, they'll need to rely on someone who can lift 100 pounds without aid. In contrast, the women I work with are better at comforting and consoling animals and gain trust more quickly. I'm nice to the critters but they warm up to ladies first. I can accept that women might be better at nurturing than men, I'm not offended or demeaned by that stereotype. Obdicut posted:Did you read the article about how you're wrong about the "Women and children first" thing, by the way? It's pretty interesting. Did you give any thought to what you'd do if a woman was rescuing you, or perhaps another man in a disaster situation? Would you grab her and say "You're a woman, we need to get you to safety because I'm expendable and you're not?" Yes, I did and it was interesting! If it was that bad of a situation I'd grab the first person I could who didn't seem capable of escaping on their own and wasn't completely doomed anyway. If I got hosed up in a disaster and a woman dragged me out I'd be grateful, if I was a lost cause I'd like to think I'd tell her (or a man) to GTFO and save yourself but pain and imminent death to funny things to your logic. It's one of those "you have to be there" situations. Obdicut posted:Dude for gently caress's sake, did you notice the bit about the cabal and poo poo? After the fact Never change, Josh
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Jul 4, 2015 20:15
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Of course, video games are not bad, but how does it feel that you are supporting slavery, racism and sexism, by enjoying said products? You can still enjoy video games, but it will turn you into a violent, sexist monster who beats women and one day will cause a massive shooting, all because of video games.
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Jul 4, 2015 20:18
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Neurolimal posted:Honestly, it seems like a lot of gamergate supporters just have trouble letting go of the belief that Good People Dont Do Bad Things. The idea that someone is capable of being well-meaning but do something wrong, or that a game can have a non-mechanical flaw while still being good is literally incomprehensible to some of them. This is directly attributable to the aGG personas as well. Plenty of the more prominent aGG people have a whole warehouse of skeletons. Regarding "other people bad!: Have you read Prester John's Authoritarian Thread? Jack Gladney posted:What do you do when people disagree with you? It's not a violation of your rights if you're in the minority or if there are people who demand a higher level of discourse than the one you'd like. Talk to them...? I'm all for discourse even if it doesn't go my way. Minarchist fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Jul 4, 2015 |
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Jul 4, 2015 20:19
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Minarchist posted:
I don't know what you mean by 'more appropriate', and my wife is actually Roma and the phrase is offensive. So, I guess you're now getting the 'who old up bro' treatment. It's a racial slur, don't use it. How is that hard? quote:Because men and women tend (not always) to have certain behavior patterns, and deviating from established gender roles tends to cause confusion and discord. Hah are you being serious or self-parodying, I can't tell. Deviating from established gender roles tends to cause confusion and discord? Like, women show up to run a research lab and people can't deal? Oh god, a female cop, what am I going to do? Did it cause discord and confusion when women got the vote? quote:I don't consider "man strong, woman weak" to be that derogatory when "woman warm, man cold" is also a stereotype. Both are bad stereotypes, and derogatory. quote:I have to lift heavy things at work when a woman with a lot more education than I do asks me to. Do I feel demeaned? No, because I'm physically capable of doing something they are not by virtue of being a man. It's not because you're a man. It's because you're bigger than them. I know women who are bigger and stronger than me. Are they, in fact, men? quote:If they want to take a ton of steroids and hit the gym for 6 hours a day, great! Until then, they'll need to rely on someone who can lift 100 pounds without aid. In contrast, the women I work with are better at comforting and consoling animals and gain trust more quickly. I'm nice to the critters but they warm up to ladies first. I can accept that women might be better at nurturing than men, I'm not offended or demeaned by that stereotype. Okay, Im sorry, the main problem you have is that you actually believe these stereotypes, and seem to think they're valuable and/or important in some way. They're not, they're just socialized behaviors. quote:
Great! so you saw that you were wrong, right? Does being wrong make you rethink anything, or do you just blink and move past it without bothering to adjust your thinking in th least? quote:If it was that bad of a situation I'd grab the first person I could who didn't seem capable of escaping on their own and wasn't completely doomed anyway. If I got hosed up in a disaster and a woman dragged me out I'd be grateful, if I was a lost cause I'd like to think I'd tell her (or a man) to GTFO and save yourself but pain and imminent death to funny things to your logic. It's one of those "you have to be there" situations. Glad to see you disagree with your earlier self. You're learning, and that's great. You do remember before you said women and children first, right? And now you're saying something different? Bholder posted:Of course, video games are not bad, but how does it feel that you are supporting slavery, racism and sexism, by enjoying said products? That sounds pretty dumb. Are these your opinions or are you quoting someone dumb?
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Jul 4, 2015 20:25
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Obdicut posted:That sounds pretty dumb. Are these your opinions or are you quoting someone dumb? It was a dumb answer to another dumb opinion.
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Jul 4, 2015 20:28
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Obdicut posted:Alright. Do you think there's any good cultural criticism of games at all, anywhere? or that it's possible? Presently, with things as tribal as they, I think it's almost impossible. The problem isn't just that all the air is sucked out of the room by an unprofessional and desperate industry in a death-struggle with its frothingly angry and nihilistic core, it's that these two bodies are now so co-dependent with one another that they will take turns propping each other up as windmills to till at. There's this little game called "Her Story" that just came out. It's fine. It's a perfectly fine little murder mystery game. It's 6 bucks. It's FMVs where you piece together a fragmented series of police interviews. The actress does alright. Sam Barlow, the guy who wrote Silent Hill: Shattered Memories wrote it. You can get it done in two or so hours. You can 100% it in another. It's fine. It is a serviceable, ok game and I would suggest it to you if you like this kind of thing. It's fine. If you look at the industry's response to it in some circles it was the second coming. They got it trending with reviews about how it was such an important, brilliant game and a serious game of the year contender and so important for the future of games and blah blah blah blah blah it's a loving FMV game. It has like an hour and forty-five minutes of footage. MGSV and XCOM2 come out later this year, goddamn. Gamergate people predictably took the bait about and started peppering youtube comments with "look at this stupid feminist bullshit lol" with one posting a false tweet from the creator saying something to the effect of "oh no why is my game selling poorly whyyy?" These are groups that have entered a symbiotic relationship so they can draw people in by cultivating indignation and self-righteousness. They're fixed anti-brands to one another. What keeps this from being a pox-on-both-your-houses equivalency is that one side, ostensibly, has some sort of professional responsibility to set tone while the other is an untethered consumer-mass who participate at their own prerogative and can tweet "niggerfag" to their black heart's content.
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Jul 4, 2015 20:37
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Obdicut posted:I don't know what you mean by 'more appropriate', and my wife is actually Roma and the phrase is offensive. So, I guess you're now getting the 'who old up bro' treatment. It's a racial slur, don't use it. How is that hard? I normally don't? I'm not oblivious as to what it means. But if I hear it irl no one really seems to give a poo poo with "I got gypped at the car dealership" as opposed to "drat heeb hosed me on that contract". It's selective bias. It sucks. This is a dumb derail. Obdicut posted:Hah are you being serious or self-parodying, I can't tell. Deviating from established gender roles tends to cause confusion and discord? Like, women show up to run a research lab and people can't deal? Oh god, a female cop, what am I going to do? Did it cause discord and confusion when women got the vote? Yes, Yes, and Yes? Remember what I said about lonely nerds on the internet? Who do you think frequents research labs? Female cops might not get the same respect as men and they gotta compensate. Also women getting the vote was a massive shitstorm with protests and rallies on both sides. Obdicut posted:It's not because you're a man. It's because you're bigger than them. I know women who are bigger and stronger than me. Are they, in fact, men? I'm a 145lbs girly man who doesn't lift or get swole  The women I work with who are the same size as me cant lift anywhere near what I can or control difficult animals a small fraction of our size. Men are inherently stronger and heavier, this is a biological fact, sexual dimorphism is a thing. Obdicut posted:Okay, Im sorry, the main problem you have is that you actually believe these stereotypes, and seem to think they're valuable and/or important in some way. They're not, they're just socialized behaviors. They're uh...kind of true? Obdicut posted:Great! so you saw that you were wrong, right? Does being wrong make you rethink anything, or do you just blink and move past it without bothering to adjust your thinking in th least? People in certain situations do unpredictable things. Obdicut posted:Glad to see you disagree with your earlier self. You're learning, and that's great. You do remember before you said women and children first, right? And now you're saying something different? Not objecting to getting hauled out of a fire by a lady isn't disagreeing with the general concept that men tend to look out for women more than they would other men.
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Jul 4, 2015 20:39
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Minarchist posted:Not objecting to getting hauled out of a fire by a lady isn't disagreeing with the general concept that men tend to look out for women more than they would other men
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Jul 4, 2015 20:40
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Bholder posted:Of course, video games are not bad, but how does it feel that you are supporting slavery, racism and sexism, by enjoying said products? It is fine to have games with white men and useless stripper armcandy women. It is not fine for the majority of games to have games with white men and useless stripper armcandy. You are not bad for liking a game with those. You (not figurative this time) are bad for feeling offended by criticism of those tropes while lacking enough confidence in your convictions to debate and defend them. quote:You can still enjoy video games, but it will turn you into a violent, sexist monster who beats women and one day will cause a massive shooting, all because of video games. Where in the thread did someone say that games alone harm society, and not the negative themes and cliches found in the majority of our media, including games?
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Jul 4, 2015 20:43
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Neurolimal posted:Where in the thread did someone say that games alone harm society, and not the negative themes and cliches found in the majority of our media, including games?
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Jul 4, 2015 20:49
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Junkfist posted:If you look at the industry's response to it in some circles it was the second coming. They got it trending with reviews about how it was such an important, brilliant game and a serious game of the year contender and so important for the future of games and blah blah blah blah blah it's a loving FMV game. It has like an hour and forty-five minutes of footage. MGSV and XCOM2 come out later this year, goddamn. This is like saying movie sites should not give anything more than a brief review to an interesting low-budget horror just because there are 5 superhero movies on the way.
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Jul 4, 2015 20:55
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Bholder posted:Of course, video games are not bad, but how does it feel that you are supporting slavery, racism and sexism, by enjoying said products? Who's saying that? You don't have the right to not be offended by the things other people say in any case.
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Jul 4, 2015 20:56
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fatherboxx posted:This is like saying movie sites should not give anything more than a brief review to an interesting low-budget horror just because there are 5 superhero movies on the way. Games are not movies.
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Jul 4, 2015 21:05
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Bholder posted:It was a dumb answer to another dumb opinion. What dumb opinion was that? Junkfist posted:... Sorry, I really did read your post, so forgive me for truncating it. I found most of it reasonable but I don't get how what you say means that there aren't or can't be any good cultural criticism of games. I completely agree that there's a Do you read RPS, and if so, what do you think of the commentary there? I also don't get why you think it's obvious a FMV game shouldn't get an best game award over MSGV or XCOM2. Why are the latter inherently better games? Just the genre/format of the game? Minarchist posted:I normally don't? I'm not oblivious as to what it means. But if I hear it irl no one really seems to give a poo poo with "I got gypped at the car dealership" as opposed to "drat heeb hosed me on that contract". It's selective bias. It sucks. This is a dumb derail. This is real life. I actually give a poo poo, as does my wife, as do other people who don't like casual racial slurs. i'm not sure why this is staggering to you. Is there any reason you don't want to stop using an ethic slur? quote:Yes, Yes, and Yes? Okay, i'm confused. Do you actually think that gender roles have an utility, or not? You can't seem to make up your mind. When you replied that bit about gender roles, it was you contending that they're real and have utility, now you seem to be backing away from that, and then skirting back towards it again. quote:I'm a 145lbs girly man who doesn't lift or get swole Yes, but this doesn't mean that by being male you're stronger than any woman you meet. If you are 145 pounds and not that fit, I know plenty of women who can easily outcompete you physically. Furthermore, you went beyond that basic physical stuff to talk about vague emotional/mental qualities: do you think sexual dimorphism extends to that, as well? You seem to just be saying "Women at work ask me to lift stuff even though they're stronger than me", and I'm saying "Yeah, that'll happen when you socialize men and women to think stupid poo poo, dumb, ain't it?" quote:They're uh...kind of true? "Kind of" is a nice weasel word, but are they true because they're inherently true, or are they true because of socialization? One of the funniest things is looking through male/female stereotypes over time and seeing them change--it used to be the case that women were seen as not capable of as much emotional depth as men--pre-victorian era. Of course, it also used to be thought that women were stupider than men or less able to make rational judgements. How do you distinguish between the things that are 'true' because of socialization and those that are 'true' because of sexual dimorphism--and why does it matter on an individual level, anyway, what the general sexual dimorphic traits are? quote:People in certain situations do unpredictable things. But the actual article research shows something different, right? And you previously disagreed with this, and said that it's just looking out for whoever is most vulnerable in that situation. It turns out people in certain situations do predictable things: they try to save themselves.
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Jul 4, 2015 21:06
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Junkfist posted:Games are not movies. In terms of exposure given to them on websites, they are quite similar. You have tentpole releases with big marketing budgets that are going to get covered extensively for months and you have independent releases that depend on people willing to champion them in press.
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Jul 4, 2015 21:12
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If I didn't like a game and other people did, they must be pretending to like the game, just to trick people into calling them out! I mean, if I can't enjoy a game, how could anyone else?? 
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Jul 4, 2015 21:16
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Obdicut posted:I also don't get why you think it's obvious a FMV game shouldn't get an best game award over MSGV or XCOM2. Why are the latter inherently better games? Just the genre/format of the game? Yes. It's an FMV game. It's videoclips you tie together to tell a story in a couple hours. We've had this since the 90s. It's a fine little game. It's a pretty good story. It can't compare to a more complex game with a comparable narrative. The differences between games aren't the same as the differences between the differences between movies. The disparity and complexity of the ways they can change are huge. The internal comparison of games to one another and movies to one another is like movies to one another and books to one another. Games are different from one another in ways movies can't be.
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Jul 4, 2015 21:20
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