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Oh, I know AoS is much, much worse than 5e. 5e is at least a functional game, albeit with similar not-even-caring-about-balance issues... they're at least not trying to tell their customers to compare moustache lengths and coerce one another into dancing. I'm just trying to point out a very common pattern in nerdgames where nerds with stay cultishly attached to games and companies they've always played (note, in a lot of cases they don't actually LIKE playing them that much, they're more... used to it) despite all evidence suggesting that the games and companies running them are terrible.
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Jul 5, 2015 12:33
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you shut your mouth, i'm gonna bombard you with literature then burn you at the stake unless you repent I wonder if GW's silence to its customers contributes to this. If you've already sunk a load of money and you think its the only game in town then its easy for Hams to trust GW's silent authority. They never stoop to the human level of interacting with their customers, just release models and say "buy this, it good,"
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Jul 5, 2015 12:36
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I suspect that a lot of it comes about because the UK still doesn't really have a strong nerdgames culture in the way that the US does. We don't have vast amounts of FLGSs, and the ones we do have are more often based around boardgames or RPGs. I've literally never seen a PP or Mantic box in person. But GW have at least one shop in all but the smallest towns, and many if not most FLGSs still carry at least some of GW's products. So, I would guess that explains a lot about how GW keeps the penetration it does - because the 12-year-old-boy market has nowhere else to go and its parents haven't ever heard of warmahordes, so they just buy whatever GW is selling in its bricks-and-mortar stores. Then those kids grow up to become closed-minded and clannish nerds, using the internet only to talk to other people from the same closed-minded nerdclans and never learning about anything else and you get a self-perpetuating vicious cycle. Even if I wanted to get into XWang or KoW or Warmahordes, I wouldn't have the first clue how to find a local pickup game to try out the systems before investing in them. (I actually would quite like to get into XWang, anyone local to Oxfordshire want to teach me?)
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Jul 5, 2015 12:42
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thespaceinvader posted:I suspect that a lot of it comes about because the UK still doesn't really have a strong nerdgames culture in the way that the US does. We don't have vast amounts of FLGSs, and the ones we do have are more often based around boardgames or RPGs. I've literally never seen a PP or Mantic box in person. But GW have at least one shop in all but the smallest towns, and many if not most FLGSs still carry at least some of GW's products. My local comic store sells a few X-Wangs things with as much disdain as they can muster, but that's probably because it looks like a board game with expansions rather than a proper minis game. Also never seen WMH/Malifaux/etc native in the wild. Hell, I've never seen Battlefront, and I play that.
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Jul 5, 2015 12:52
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There's a store local to me that sells them, and where you can play. But I've been in several times to ask and they don't generally offer pickup games, they only let you borrow the games if you come in with a friend or friends to play them, and my friends don't want to try XWangs.
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Jul 5, 2015 13:03
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The comic shop by me sold xwings at one point but only tie bombers for some reason. Forbidden planet sells xwing though and does event nights etc, seem to be doing quite well off it, I wonder if they'll ever try selling warmahordes etc or if that's a step too far
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Jul 5, 2015 13:06
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Phoon posted:The comic shop by me sold xwings at one point but only tie bombers for some reason. It's a profound statement about democracy
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Jul 5, 2015 13:12
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Worcester has Mana Leak(selling a lot of X-wing stuff and some Warmahordes) with a single set of Shelves for GW that never seems to sell, and Worcester Wargaming which has a a bunch of GW stuff, some Warmahordes and some Kings of War. Hide and Geek also openede recently I think: they stock some deadzone stuff I think? Heard they do X-Wing and Warmahordes tournaments as well.
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Jul 5, 2015 13:19
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fnordcircle posted:Is "just have fun!" some sort of incantation to be hurled at anything that challenges your wargaming belief system? There's a reason there was gigantic red text in the OP of the Board Game thread saying roughly "Fun is a meaningless word that discourages discussion" People only say a game is fun if they have completely run out of actually good things to say about the game. If the game had actual good qualities, then people would say it has those qualities instead of "it's fun!" like how reviews of Kings of War praise its speed, scalability, and tactics. The bar's pretty low for fun! A guy just shot 9 people in a church for fun. People watch Twilight, Attack of the Clones, Ghostbusters 2, and Manos: The Hands of Fate for fun. Fun basically means "it held my attention," and using it to describe a game is like using "I was not hungry after eating it" to describe food. The only way a game could not hold your attention is if it's a loving monumental failure of a game in the same way a bowl of epicac is a monumental failure of a meal. Could you imagine that? McDonald's new sandwich tastes really bad. But I wasn't hungry after I ate it! It gives people salmonella. Well, just throw it in the microwave for 6 minutes after you buy it but before you eat it! A culture of ignorance in America makes this sort of dismissive tone acceptable, because people get really mad when you point out that the thing they like isn't perfect.
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Jul 5, 2015 14:03
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why the gently caress would i want to critically analyze what i do *eats mcdonalds, watches americas funniest home videos, plays age of sigmoar, shits in bucket*
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Jul 5, 2015 15:02
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gently caress you AFV his hilarious
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Jul 5, 2015 15:41
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Not a viking posted:gently caress you AFV his hilarious
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Jul 5, 2015 15:44
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Not a viking posted:gently caress you AFV his hilarious No joke I would laugh like hell seeing an AFV compilation of nerds doing the things to get the powers in age of sigmor.
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Jul 5, 2015 15:50
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What's going to fail first: AoS or Star Citizen?
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Jul 5, 2015 15:59
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FishFood posted:Do you have any kind of document with these fixes in them? Mordheim has always looked like a blast, but it's lack of balance has put me off. I do...but it's in portuguese. I think I can write up a proper summary of the fixes once college exams are done. It's not comprehensive, mind; we sort of waited until a player wanted to play a warband before looking into it rather than going through the whole Living rulebook (which has some great stuff but also a lot of dumb crap) with a fine-toothed comb.
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Jul 5, 2015 16:01
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OhDearGodNo posted:What's going to fail first: AoS or Star Citizen?
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Jul 5, 2015 16:01
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guys youre discussing what fun is again please guys
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Jul 5, 2015 16:05
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thespaceinvader posted:I suspect that a lot of it comes about because the UK still doesn't really have a strong nerdgames culture in the way that the US does. We don't have vast amounts of FLGSs, and the ones we do have are more often based around boardgames or RPGs. I've literally never seen a PP or Mantic box in person. But GW have at least one shop in all but the smallest towns, and many if not most FLGSs still carry at least some of GW's products. Are you kidding? We don't have a lot of independent LGS these days sure, mainly because GWs massive and aggressive expansion in the 90s killed many of them off, but we have 1000s of Wargaming clubs playing everything from GW, PP through the to obscure historical rules photocopied in the 1970s. The UK has more wargames companies than any other country, from rule systems through to miniature manufacturers. I suggest if you can't find anyone local you Google Oxfordshire and wargame club.
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Jul 5, 2015 16:34
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I assume online meetup sites allow for more board gaming but it's one of those things you need to know. Like, I still surprise many people when I show them all the pub-based board game clubs or nights but it's a great time in places like NYC if you're not into the clubbing scene.
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Jul 5, 2015 16:40
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Yeah, knowing where to look is pretty challenging, and knowing where to look in order not to find the creepy fuckers is even more so. And also, beside the (ineptly made) point, which was intended to be more about how GW perpetuates itself (parents don't know anything else, take impressionable kids there who grow up to be obsessive adults, repeat) than about the general availability of nerdery.
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Jul 5, 2015 16:44
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Yeah, Britain is full of wargames companies and bad wargames made for people who think of minis games as games that need to be bad. The big difference between the US and UK is, in the US minis games are basically sold almost exclusively in independent LGSs that also act as the meeting halls for gaming, while in the UK the stores are more strictly stores and most gaming is done in clubs, where there are few of those in the US.
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Jul 5, 2015 16:46
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Both Privateer Press and Wyrd maintain a program for community volunteers that after a vetting process, get an official stamp of approval. These guys run demos and stuff for new players, organize tournaments, etc, usually in exchange for rewards in a points program. They both maintain lists of these people, and you can find people local to you in the UK or wherever. Press Ganger searchable database (Privateer Press): http://volunteers.privateerpress.com/location/users Henchman list (see box to left, scroll down as needed) (Wyrd Games): http://wyrd-games.net/community/page/henchmen.html
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Jul 5, 2015 16:47
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What I find deliciously ironic is I've encountered clueless smug Warhammer players who, despite not knowing anything about Warmachine, insist that it's just "shoving models to the middle of the table and rolling dice with no strategy because that's what it looks like in battle reports, game has no tactics". If it weren't for the fact that GW does no market research I'd be convinced that GW saw Warmachine was doing extremely well, read those comments, and used the comments as the basis for the AoS rules, and didn't bother to actually learn anything about Warmachine. FrostyPox fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Jul 5, 2015 |
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Jul 5, 2015 17:31
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Maybe they should Age of Sigless.
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Jul 5, 2015 17:32
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Perfect World pipe Dream: AoS bombs hard. Rather than shitcanning Fantasy, GW decides to do the exact opposite and resurrects Mass Fantasy Battles in the form of reviving rebooting the setting back to the old world, Warmaster, and rebranding it as the new WHFB9 now in 10mm scale. Jewel Like Objects of Wonder can come in smaller scale too, can't they?  This is just me wishing secondhand Warmaster minis weren't so expensive. Oh who am I kidding, they'd still be stupid expensive even if GW was still making them
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Jul 5, 2015 17:37
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FrostyPox posted:What I find deliciously ironic is I've encountered clueless smug Warhammer players who, despite not knowing anything about Warmachine, insist that it's just "shoving models to the middle of the table and rolling dice with no strategy because that's what it looks like in battle reports, game has no tactics". I've suspected since I read the scrolls that the fact every unit does some random, unique, totally unbalanced bullshit (even ignoring horse riding for rerolls stuff) is because they noticed Warmahorde units frequently have individual abilities and decided to stick this in without understanding the role unique abilities have at generating synergies and tactically complex gameplay.
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Jul 5, 2015 17:51
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Does games workshop somehow not understand that calling their elves "aelfs" does not in any way prevent other people from making elf miniatures? All it does is make games workshop products look like lovely knock offs.
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Jul 5, 2015 18:03
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Naw, it's so that when they release a new AoS model with equivalent rules and the bonuses baked in without any wacky pantomime poo poo the new model will look more attractive.
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Jul 5, 2015 18:03
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Ignite Memories posted:Does games workshop somehow not understand that calling their elves "aelfs" does not in any way prevent other people from making elf miniatures? They didn't do this right? Tell me they didn't rename elves as aelfs. Please.
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Jul 5, 2015 18:08
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Aelfs, Ogors, Orruks, Steamhead Daurdin (that is dwarfs, since that one is less obvious), and more.
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Jul 5, 2015 18:10
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Holy poo poo dwarves are now "Duardin"
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Jul 5, 2015 18:10
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Ignite Memories posted:Does games workshop somehow not understand that calling their elves "aelfs" does not in any way prevent other people from making elf miniatures It's so they can sue knockoffs more easily for violating the trademark on their Aelfs, which are obviously totally different from generic and uncopyrightable elves. Looking at AoS makes me wonder if making the game childishly silly, removing the points system etc isn't a deliberate attempt at driving off the existing players. There's a school of marketing theory that says if you reboot a nerd IP, you should make it as odious to the established fans as possible - after all they'll probably buy it anyway, and you want to catch the eye of the mainstream. Mainstream buyers who don't want to be anywhere near the unwashed neckbeards. Given what we've heard in this thread about GW managers seeing "the vets" as a problem, it would make sense. At the very least, if "won't this alienate the playerbase?" was brought up in the design meetings, this line of thinking could have been used to shoot that argument down.
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Jul 5, 2015 18:10
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AoS is released just to get fans to sell their existing armies in a rage. A couple of months later, the "realms begin to stabilize" and next year GW releases the real next edition in the hopes those fans buy their armies new all over again.
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Jul 5, 2015 18:11
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OhDearGodNo posted:They didn't do this right? Tell me they didn't rename elves as aelfs. They did. Along with Orruks, Grots, Ogors, Duardin (Dwarves), Seraphon (Lizardmen), and Troggoth (Trolls). In the future, if, at any point, you say "They didn't do this, really? There's no way", the answer is "Yes they did" and if you ask "Why?" the answer is "Because Games Workshop is run by delusional fools determined to run the company into the ground"
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Jul 5, 2015 18:11
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Loxbourne posted:It's so they can sue knockoffs more easily for violating the trademark on their Aelfs, which are obviously totally different from generic and uncopyrightable elves. But you could just make generic Elfs and they're basically already "knockoffs". So unless GW plans on making any future minis as distinctively different as Sigmarines... Oh dear. 
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Jul 5, 2015 18:12
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Galaga Galaxian posted:But you could just make generic Elfs and they're basically already "knockoffs". Craftworld Aeldar.
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Jul 5, 2015 18:21
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spectralent posted:Craft fixed.
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Jul 5, 2015 18:46
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Crowsbeak posted:fixed. 
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Jul 5, 2015 18:49
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I'm very worried that this new approach will spill to 40k next edition. GW has already stated clearly that they are a miniatures company first and foremost. The rules to Risk are more in-depth than AoS. If they truly want to focus less on the game element, this has a significant chance of spreading over. Maybe not to this extent of stupidity, but will become extremely simplistic.
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Jul 5, 2015 18:53
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Have "Nigmos" been confirmed too? 
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Jul 5, 2015 18:53
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