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Rutibex posted:Being an RPG means making your own character. A story based game with a pre-set protagonist is an Adventure Game. Famous adventure game
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Jul 5, 2015 22:49
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Poolparty posted:When you emerge from the vault at the start of the game as a gay character this song plays: It's Raining Men, as a result of bizarre atmospheric effects from two centuries of radiation.
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Jul 5, 2015 22:50
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You can be gay in one (two?) of those and cross dress in the third checkmate you heteronormative fuckstick 
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Jul 5, 2015 22:51
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MAKE WAY NEW STARS posted:You can be gay in one (two?) of those and cross dress in the third checkmate you heteronormative fuckstick :iamafag:
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Jul 5, 2015 22:53
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computer parts posted:Famous adventure game Today I learned none of the Final Fantasy games are rpgs.
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Jul 5, 2015 22:54
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Really though if you can be a gay falloutman or falloutlady that's cool and if you enjoy the game more for it more power to you, but if it's that important to you that you can't live without it then you might be playing video games for the wrong reason. (the right reason is to have fun doing whatever)
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Jul 5, 2015 22:55
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Romes128 posted:Today I learned none of the Final Fantasy games are rpgs. You will now be told JRPGs are different and don't count. But FFVII also had cross dressing so maybe not, depends how they want to spin it
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Jul 5, 2015 22:56
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MAKE WAY NEW STARS posted:You will now be told JRPGs are different and don't count. JRPGs are anime. All western RPGs are Disney's Gargoyles.
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Jul 5, 2015 22:58
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People in this thread seem to be conflating meaningful character choice with having a blank slate character, which can help but isn't strictly necessary.
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Jul 5, 2015 22:59
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Delsaber posted:JRPGs are anime. All western RPGs are Disney's Gargoyles. I remember one of the gargoyles was gay, but I forget which. Was it Brooklyn?
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Jul 5, 2015 23:01
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Lotish posted:By this logic Planescape Torment isn't an RPG. In Planescape Torment your character is a blank slate of a sort, you can choose to re-integrate your old life and personality or develop into someone new. Romes128 posted:Today I learned none of the Final Fantasy games are rpgs. I think you are forgetting about Final Fantasy 1  I any case, yeah RPGs used to be defined as "games with a stat system and XP derived from D&D". But now every drat game has that. Is Call of Duty an RPG? Is Gran Turismo an RPG? If it's not about creating your own character than "RPG" is a basically meaningless term these days. computer parts posted:Famous adventure game Mass Effect is definitely an Adventure game. Rutibex fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Jul 5, 2015 |
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Jul 5, 2015 23:03
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Both Planescape: Torment and Fallout 3 give you a character with fairly well-established backstory, for example. Planescape: Torment has meaningful character choices while Fallout 3 does not.
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Jul 5, 2015 23:04
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Do you have any idea how boring a blank slate RPG where the entire story has to be vague enough to fit your imagined backstory would be?
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Jul 5, 2015 23:05
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Yeah but imagine how gay you could be if you didn't have to deal with a backstory
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Jul 5, 2015 23:08
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MAKE WAY NEW STARS posted:Yeah but imagine how gay you could be if you didn't have to deal with a backstory LOL!
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Jul 5, 2015 23:08
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Rutibex posted:In Planescape Torment your character is a blank slate of a sort, you can choose to re-integrate your old life and personality or develop into someone new. No you're literally role playing the character in their world and making decisions in the game world, player created or not. That's where the term RPG comes from.
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Jul 5, 2015 23:11
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Let me put this in a way that's more understandable. Homosexuals have spent the bulk of human society shamed, ostracized, and sometimes imprisoned, tortured, and executed for being gay. Modern society is more accepting of gay people now, but only in the sense that it's no longer okay to literally chemically castrate them. The United States only just gave gay people the right to marry (and many state governments are trying their hardest to block it) and the majority of the world still doesn't, and there are still countries that criminalize homosexuality. For pretty much the entire 20th century, gay people very rarely made significant appearances in the media and it wasn't until the last few decades that it was common for gay characters to not be depicted as sexual deviants and pedophiles. Even then, gay people have spent decades as the butt of jokes when they actually showed up in media: they're depicted as overly feminine, often sexually promiscuous, and jokes are made about straight guys getting hit on by gay guys. Because I guess it's funny that gay people exist? It's virtually impossible to get accurate estimates on what percentage of the population has same sex attraction due to the existing social stigmas even in this more accepting time period; attempts to poll people get anywhere from 1% to 25% or higher, and it's very likely that the number is much greater. Either way, it's likely that a significant number of people in this world are gay, bisexual, or otherwise have some kind of attraction to the same sex. And yet they've spent pretty much most of human history forced to hide their sexuality from the public to avoid being persecuted. It's honestly completely reasonable for someone to be upset if an RPG character who's ostensibly able to be roleplayed however you want is forced to be straight, especially when the preceding game allowed for a full spectrum of sexualities in the actual game mechanics and had multiple bisexual or homosexual NPCs. Someone who's gay has likely spent most/all of their life at risk of being ostracized and potentially subject to violence, and it's worse when a bunch of jackasses start mocking them and saying loving awful stuff about their sexuality because they don't think it's important. If you're upset that someone wants to see more gay and bisexual representation, it's because you don't understand what the people bringing up the complaints have actually gone through with their lives. Like seriously, I've seen some of the worst poo poo spouted by people in this thread over the subject. And then you try to defend the awful things you've said with "You can just make believe!" or making jokes about Tumblr SJWs getting whiny. You're actively part of the problem. chitoryu12 fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Jul 5, 2015 |
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Jul 5, 2015 23:21
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If the game was about being a gay dude searching for his husband and their adopted/surrogate/robot kid I wouldn't care either, fwiw. It's a game.
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Jul 5, 2015 23:25
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MAKE WAY NEW STARS posted:If the game was about being a gay dude searching for his husband and their adopted/surrogate/robot kid I wouldn't care either, fwiw. And it's okay not to care. Really, it is. What's not okay is when someone talks about how they want to see more and better gay characters in media (especially an RPG, where it's trivial for them to be implemented) and all of a sudden people come out of the woodwork with "Look at this loving SJW crying because he can't pound dudes in a video game. You want to see robodad balls? Go cry in your rainbows!"
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Jul 5, 2015 23:28
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Speaking of representation, I actually like it when games force you to play as a single character with a set background and identify with them way more for it than when it's a customizable blank slate like in new Vegas and bioware games. The marine in new avp has no dialogue or player agency but I identified with him way more because he's a black dude and will always be a black dude and that was cool.
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Jul 5, 2015 23:29
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It would actually be pretty cool if you could toggle the gender for both spouses, so you could have two dudes or two ladies.
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Jul 5, 2015 23:29
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Black main playable characters that aren't just white people you can customize with different skin tones are relegated to gta games pretty much, if you're lucky a call of duty level might be playable.
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Jul 5, 2015 23:32
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Sharkopath posted:Black main playable characters that aren't just white people you can customize with different skin tones are relegated to gta games pretty much, if you're lucky a call of duty level might be playable. That's a valid reason to dislike the voiced protagonist in this game, Fallout 4.
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Jul 5, 2015 23:35
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chitoryu12 posted:Let me put this in a way that's more understandable. Fallout 4 isn't going to be the thing that finally makes it totally socially acceptable to be gay. It's a video game. Bethesda has chosen a narrative they want for their game. If you don't like this narrative, don't play the game. For all we know, gay people are ostracized in Pre-War fallout and it isn't until after all the bombs drop that people stop caring and let people be whoever they want. Todd Howard said they skipped a bunch of stuff between the bombs dropping and when they showed the PC leave the vault. Maybe there's a robot before you leave that says: "Over the past 200 years many things have become acceptable in the post apocalyptic hellscape." [That's cool, I was secretly a homosexual the whole time, I'm glad I finally get to be gay in the open] [That's cool, but I'm a heteronormative cisman/woman so this doesn't really affect me]
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Jul 5, 2015 23:38
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Now I miss the gun derail
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Jul 5, 2015 23:40
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Even Fallout 3 and NV had Yuri Lowenthal doing weird grunts for the male player character, and I didn't like that personally.
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Jul 5, 2015 23:41
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Cojawfee posted:Fallout 4 isn't going to be the thing that finally makes it totally socially acceptable to be gay. It's a video game. And nobody said it would be. But this just started out as someone hoping that Fallout 4 would continue the trend of non-hetero characters in more recent RPGs (which Dragon Age embraced wholeheartedly and New Vegas had to a pretty good extent). It didn't turn into what it is now until a bunch of people started screeching about how having gay protagonists literally doesn't matter in video games and that gay people should just be happy with what they have now.
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Jul 5, 2015 23:43
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It's dumb to use New Vegas in this argument because; 1. You can have sex with either sexes plus a robot. 2. It's never mentioned whether you're gay or straight or just like loving robots. You decide. There's nothing in the game that forces you either way, and that's not the same as choosing in the game to be gay or straight. 3. Bethesda did not make NV, so we can't expect anything from it to make it into F4. It would be understandable if people complained about taking out the gay choices in whatever upcoming Mass Effect game since it was an already established gameplay mechanic. But to complain about not having the option in a game where you have an established backstory is pointless. The character creation is completely physical, and has no bearing on the sexual preference of the character and to ask a developer to spend time and money coding it into a game where they have a story and narrative direction that does not fit with what they planned is dumb. I've been following The Witcher 3 thread and no one is asking why Geralt can't be in a gay relationship. Cause he's a character with a back story. Same in Fallout 4. You're a character in a heterosexual marriage and have a child. Putting in a choice to be gay would seem kind of forced.
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Jul 5, 2015 23:43
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The worse offense on Bethesda's part is making the protagonist extremely boring, to be honest.
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Jul 5, 2015 23:44
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We saw like what, 4-5 dialogue scenes so far? Seems a little early to assume the protagonist is boring/voiced protag was a mistake
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Jul 5, 2015 23:48
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frajaq posted:We saw like what, 4-5 dialogue scenes so far? Seems a little early to assume the protagonist is boring/voiced protag was a mistake It's fairly safe to assume based on what we've seen so far, especially given Bethesda's track record.
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Jul 5, 2015 23:52
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chitoryu12 posted:Let me put this in a way that's more understandable. This.  Thread trolls, please gently caress off. Thanks. 
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Jul 5, 2015 23:52
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Cojawfee posted:Fallout 4 isn't going to be the thing that finally makes it totally socially acceptable to be gay. It's a video game. Bethesda has chosen a narrative they want for their game. If you don't like this narrative, don't play the game. For all we know, gay people are ostracized in Pre-War fallout and it isn't until after all the bombs drop that people stop caring and let people be whoever they want. They aern't going to give you the choice to be gay once you leave the vault. The story system is quite limited, as we have seen with only a few options for each dialog. It is likely safe to say that your characters Wife/Child will have some sort of important role to play in this game, and if that is the case then changing your characters sexual orientation would have a major impact on the story.
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Jul 5, 2015 23:52
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Remember the bit where John Fallout opens the fridge, sees Nuka Cola and says "Nuka Cola! Delicious!"
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Jul 5, 2015 23:52
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He/she/it likes nuka cola and dogs. Thats all we can gleam. Thats pretty interesting.
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Jul 5, 2015 23:53
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Romes128 posted:3. Bethesda did not make NV, so we can't expect anything from it to make it into F4. I agree, but it would be nice to think that Bethesda at least paid enough attention to what Obsidian was doing to take notes and experiment with some of the same ideas, though.
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Jul 5, 2015 23:55
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Frankly, we wouldn't need to even have a debate about whether or not it's cool to have a gay or bi protagonist if we weren't the kind of society where people rush in and start saying a bunch of awful stuff purely to offend gay people to try and shut them up and not have to talk about it.
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Jul 5, 2015 23:55
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Personally I think they should go full-on gay characters or not deal with it at all. Was anyone playing Skyrim really satisfied to find out literally everyone in the province is a bisexual (but only for the PC, outside of that you see zero gay relationships anywhere ever). Same with the Hawkesexual poo poo from DA2. I liked how New Vegas did it by making being gay part of Arcade and Veronica's personality and backstory, but then Obsidian was also wise to completely exclude player romance at all (Fisto aside).
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Jul 5, 2015 23:57
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I hope the laser RCW is in this game what about you guys
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Jul 5, 2015 23:57
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Hihohe posted:I hope the laser RCW is in this game what about you guys I'm not much of an energy weapons guy, so I'll hope for That Gun even knowing I'll surely be disappointed.
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Jul 6, 2015 00:00
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