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InvincibleMadHouse posted:I hope this isn't seen as trolling because it is legit curiosity: GG is so important to so many people precisely because it isn't important. Real causes would demand sacrifices - a/GG requires clicks and typing.
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Jul 6, 2015 10:17
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InvincibleMadHouse posted:they are barely able to dress themselves in the morning. Someone who obsessively plays video games and only cares about the politics of video game journalism is dooming themselves to obscurity and damning themselves to a self spun hell. Maybe they need to be spoon-fed politics in order for them to acquire a taste for it. Despite putting vegetables in the pasta sauce for years, gamers saw the sight of a big piece of carrot and cried foul. If you don't attempt to engage these people on their terms then you might lose them for life, kind of like what is happening with the union movement.
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Jul 6, 2015 10:23
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I don't think there has ever been a straight conservative white male who converted to the left because of a feminist issue. Feminism converts married women every once and a while, but to the guy trolling general chat in WoW, feminism will always and forever represent a force which thwarts his quest for non-pixelated boobies. Nothing more. Women telling him he's wrong doesn't register as a thought but as an emotion. This topic is a morass. It makes them feel politically engaged, but revelation will elude them here. You can convert libertarians with facts and reason. You can shake a few souls out of heaven with information a child could grasp. You can't get white male conservatives to think beyond their sexual inadequacies and the justified griping of women will never be among the gripes of such men. It sounds like a political issue on the surface, but its a psychological one, and even if Anna Sarkawhofuckingcares' tits grew three sizes and she personally milked every GG idiot while nodding her head as they rant into their orgasm, she wouldn't change one solitary mind, but it would probably go a lot farther for them than people on the internet telling them its good they're unfuckable babbies and no one cares about their awful opinions and meaningless feelings.
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Jul 6, 2015 10:40
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:GG is so important to so many people precisely because it isn't important. Real causes would demand sacrifices - a/GG requires clicks and typing. You know, I watched a pretty good documentary earlier today titled "GTFO". The documentary kind of predates gamergate instead focusing on sexism that was rampant in the industry before GG happened. But an addendum at the end kind of talks about it slightly. One of the people in the movie talks about how we can't blame gamergate for the rampant sexism as it was there before. But the thing that I really took away from the film is that there are many feminists that are actually out there doing stuff to try to combat some of the harassment and having people out there attempting to teach people how to make video games. I mean, for all of the poo poo that people give some of these other people like Leigh Alexander, I think they are at least out there doing things other than being keyboard warriors. blackguy32 fucked around with this message at 10:54 on Jul 6, 2015 |
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Jul 6, 2015 10:52
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InvincibleMadHouse posted:they are barely able to dress themselves in the morning. Someone who obsessively plays video games and only cares about the politics of video game journalism is dooming themselves to obscurity and damning themselves to a self spun hell. Someone like that is awful. InvincibleMadHouse posted:I don't think there has ever been a straight conservative white male who converted to the left because of a feminist issue. Feminism converts married women every once and a while, but to the guy trolling general chat in WoW, feminism will always and forever represent a force which thwarts his quest for non-pixelated boobies. Nothing more. Women telling him he's wrong doesn't register as a thought but as an emotion. You seem to be a very angry person who may not be the best person to accept the predictions of at face value. blackguy32 posted:But the thing that I really took away from the film is that there are many feminists that are actually out there doing stuff to try to combat some of the harassment and having people out there attempting to teach people how to make video games. I mean, for all of the poo poo that people give some of these other people like Leigh Alexander, I think they are at least out there doing things other than being keyboard warriors. I plan on watching the documentary to learn how Leigh is something other than a keyboard warrior / keyboard war profiteer. The Snark fucked around with this message at 11:17 on Jul 6, 2015 |
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Jul 6, 2015 11:13
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The Snark posted:I plan on watching the documentary to learn how Leigh is something other than a keyboard warrior / keyboard war profiteer. You don't really have to. http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1018080/
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Jul 6, 2015 11:23
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Isn't GTFO the documentary that GG launched an active campaign against, or was that another documentary about the problems in the Game Industry?
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Jul 6, 2015 11:26
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Well, let's look at the reviews on iMDB and-quote:Three con artists walk into a bar, and somehow end up getting a documentary made about them.
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Jul 6, 2015 11:29
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Ddraig posted:Isn't GTFO the documentary that GG launched an active campaign against, or was that another documentary about the problems in the Game Industry? I really don't know. But if GG launched a campaign against it, I don't really know why, because Gamergate is hardly even mentioned in it. Only about 1 to 2 minutes of film is given to gamergate at the very end of the film. The film is more about sexism as a whole in the gaming industry. BravestOfTheLamps posted:Well, let's look at the reviews on iMDB and- It's kind of funny, since that review singles out Anita Sarkeesian and Brianna Wu, and they are barely in it. It does talk about the Street Fighter Vs. Tekken incident, The Dickwolves incident, and the Dragon Age 2 incident. blackguy32 fucked around with this message at 11:33 on Jul 6, 2015 |
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Jul 6, 2015 11:29
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My mistake, I was thinking of "Gameloading: Rise of the Indies" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4417906/ quote:A bad documentary about people who believe they can make games innovative but fail miserably in doing so and blaming others. The developers and few journalists that are talked about and introduced are far from being nationally diverse as well. The use of people who can't even make games in a documentary about the indie scene is purely abysmal, let alone the fact that the majority of those interviewed all just talk about themselves like they are some kind of developer messiah and their work will change the industry as we know it. I will say the camera work was OK, given that there was barely any need for it because it is an interview style documentary. But regardless, the execution of who they used does not redeem this movie one bit Incidentally GamerGate found another avenue of attack on Anita: imdb http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3897284/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1 quote:This series is perhaps one of the most bigoted things I've ever seen. Labels all gamers as women hating individuals even states as fact that we are all affected by Video games even if we think we aren't. It's fun reading the demographic data for bad reviews on both of them
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Jul 6, 2015 11:34
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Do people really think they are unaffected by the media they consume? Lol
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Jul 6, 2015 11:41
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sounds like a bunch of people primed to get engaged in feminism and leftwing politics to me! Maybe 800 new posts a day and the last holdouts will be converted.
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Jul 6, 2015 11:42
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It's crazy. I personally was massively influenced by a few pieces. When I was in high school, the school librarian was a really cool old hippy who would give us all kinds of crazy stuff to read. She was the person who introduced me to Camus, Vonnegut and Terry Pratchett. I'd say all three massively influenced my world view in different ways.
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Jul 6, 2015 11:44
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People who say they aren't influenced by media are talking out of their rear end. I think most people in this thread believe that it won't make you violent, which it most likely won't. But it will affect how you see the world. We only have to look at Upton Sinclair's The Jungle for that. For me, I think it was Do the Right Thing
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Jul 6, 2015 11:52
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blackguy32 posted:You don't really have to. Thank you, listening to Leigh presently. I am hearing a great deal of things I agree with that don't sync up well with her work and and general manner except for the whinge about people telling them that maybe their incendiary approach is ineffective. Tone policing. Still has a fixation on megaphones. Not seeing where they are shown to be anything but a keyboard warrior, just one that got in front of a microphone. I wonder if their Twitter avatar is still her in Imperator Furiosa cosplay. InvincibleMadHouse posted:sounds like a bunch of people primed to get engaged in feminism and leftwing politics to me! Maybe 800 new posts a day and the last holdouts will be converted. Sounds like you think the only thing discussion should be used for is direct conversion of the enemy and that since it is ineffective as such it should be discarded. I wonder what method you would prefer? Or do you imagine the enemy can be removed more directly?
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Jul 6, 2015 12:03
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no you could also just get off on beating a particularly boring dead horse? Anyway, you don't "win" these issues by engaging the enemy at all. You point out hypocrisy, sure, but at the end of the day you don't knock on bubba's door and ask him if you can convince him to vote for bernie sanders. Bubba's innate ignorance is one of your recruiting tools. Misogynists bitching on the internet is even less harmful than bubba down the street because bubba doesn't spend his day glued to a computer screen that can be ignored at your own leisure. Bubba votes, but he isn't a constant public embarrassment to himself and his backward political beliefs. It might sound accelerationist, but more feminists are being created by the action of these assholes than future Republican rank and file. So no, you don't godwin out. You watch them gleefully tie their noose and maintain your sanity while the mule gets hungry enough to wander off from under them, and you don't make the subject of their noose tying a focal point beyond how great it is that irony lives and breathes. You consider them less than brothers, but more than beasts. And you sure as poo poo don't start racing them to the gallows by making "serious discussion of video game ethics" a staple internet battle.
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Jul 6, 2015 12:24
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Maybe it's better to say that media has the POTENTIAL to change minds, but only if that mind is malleable or receptive to change. It probably has a lot to do with emotional maturity, which a stunning number of adults from all walks of life don't seem to have much of. Hell, isn't Donald Trump a GOP frontrunner right now? Speaking of maturity, that Game Loading game documentary was worth it just to see the parade of haircuts inspired by "The 5th Element".
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Jul 6, 2015 12:37
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InvincibleMadHouse posted:no you could also just get off on beating a particularly boring dead horse? Anyway, you don't "win" these issues by engaging the enemy at all. You point out hypocrisy, sure, but at the end of the day you don't knock on bubba's door and ask him if you can convince him to vote for bernie sanders. Bubba's innate ignorance is one of your recruiting tools. Misogynists bitching on the internet is even less harmful than bubba down the street because bubba doesn't spend his day glued to a computer screen that can be ignored at your own leisure. Bubba votes, but he isn't a constant public embarrassment to himself and his backward political beliefs. It might sound accelerationist, but more feminists are being created by the action of these assholes than future Republican rank and file. I agree on a few points there, but you run into a few problems both in thinking there is a mortal enemy or you can win against them at all. The problem is the problem, not the people who have it. You are quite right, accelerationist or not, to say that zealot jerks do far more for their opponent's causes than their opponents do. But that's a sword that cuts both ways. Few factions have ever had a monopoly on zealots, and whichever has more does the greater disservice to itself. One of the virtues of discussion, or so I hope, is that it helps defuse growing zealotry. This whole GamerGate thing is not some incidence of uniformly Liberal people versus uniformly Conservative Bible Belters. Far from it. It's if anything a rift in the Left itself that opened a way for the likes of Breitbart to reach a younger demographic they had no real appeal to beforehands. The Right, such as it is, would be in worse shape had this vicious slapfight for supreme smuggery not broken out. Imagine, if both sides stopped stabbing at strawmen and resolved not to care about Anita Sarkeesian's commentary unless they wanted to! Let's say they started pursuing ethical reforms- not just in games journalism but journalism in general. What if they all supported more games being made in all flavors and styles without having to condemn the games they don't like as some form of hate crime? What if they stopped screaming about how their opponents stand for something other than what they say they do and simply worked toward the ends they agree with? Such a thought wakes up the entrenched powers in the middle of the night with a cold sweat I imagine, fortunately for them human spite and the easily manipulable angry human brain makes this a borderline pipe dream. The Snark fucked around with this message at 12:50 on Jul 6, 2015 |
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Jul 6, 2015 12:39
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Control Volume posted:"Felicia Day and my grandmother have something in common. My grandmother told me a story when I was younger about how she was walking home from work one night when she saw two black people walking towards her. She was afraid they might be criminals based on how they looked, and so she had to cross the street and walk around an entire block just to avoid them. Day did the same thing with two guys because she thought they might be gamers. So if my grandmother is a raging bigot for what she did, then what does that tell us about Day?" This is true. "Schrödinger's rapist" is just another way of saying "I cross the street when I see a darkie." Except you have a higher chance of being assaulted by a black guy than a white man and especially a white male gamer so it's extra delusional. The Gamer: simultaneously a dangerous threat to women's safety everywhere and must be stopped but also pathetic and weak and never leaves his parent's basement or will have the gumption to approach you. Hold these two thoughts together and don't get confused by the contradiction, o followers of the church of feminism.
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Jul 6, 2015 12:49
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Broniki posted:This is true. "Schrödinger's rapist" is just another way of saying "I cross the street when I see a darkie."  Men, the famous minority e: "Why are women afraid of male rapists? That's sexist and oppressive." BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 13:01 on Jul 6, 2015 |
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Jul 6, 2015 12:54
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the "rift on the left" is kind of an illusion. Young people pretty uniformly can't associate with movement conservatism because they lived through the Bush years. Won't stop them from being right leaning, but it subverts it into something different. In time the memory will fade and they'll pull the lever R despite either side's way with words. If they're so caught up in some "gamer identity" then they're gonna be garbage voters no matter what, and trying to salvage the glimmer of hope in their soul is ultimately fruitless. If mean ladies on the internet piss you off enough to disengage you from broader politics or vote for obviously evil fuckers you are in 90% disagreement with, then you weren't going to be anything but an embarrassment to whatever side you fell on anyway. If Breibart is recruiting out of this, then good luck to them, I wish him well. We'll never be rid of conservatives and the narrative of "young = liberal" is poisonous thinking. He isn't swaying future liberals, he's at worst catching them before some other divisive issue could. If they retain some of their pre-indoctrination ideas on economics, race, or religion, then good, they might even swing the Republicans into a better place but I wouldn't count on it, but like I said earlier, you can't engage them with feminism, and you shouldn't want to fight for future embarrassments. The power of the left going on out isn't contingent on young white men becoming a liberal demographic, and that's a fantastic thing. Women and minorities shouldn't be forced to haggle inside their own ideological spectrum with unenlightened people who had to read 800 new posts on something awful per day just to be convinced to sit down with them.
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Jul 6, 2015 13:01
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:e: "Why are women afraid of male rapists? That's sexist and oppressive." Men they think might be rapists (although statistically they very likely won't be) who they think are significantly likely enough to assault them because their sense of victimhood and paranoia have been inflated through the roof by the cult they've subscribed to. Do you cross the street when you see a black man? What about a group of them?
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Jul 6, 2015 13:19
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InvincibleMadHouse posted:the "rift on the left" is kind of an illusion. Young people pretty uniformly can't associate with movement conservatism because they lived through the Bush years. Won't stop them from being right leaning, but it subverts it into something different. In time the memory will fade and they'll pull the lever R despite either side's way with words. If they're so caught up in some "gamer identity" then they're gonna be garbage voters no matter what, and trying to salvage the glimmer of hope in their soul is ultimately fruitless. If mean ladies on the internet piss you off enough to disengage you from broader politics or vote for obviously evil fuckers you are in 90% disagreement with, then you weren't going to be anything but an embarrassment to whatever side you fell on anyway. Your line of thinking is why republicans control the house and senate.
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Jul 6, 2015 13:20
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The era of The Victim is the saddest moment in leftist politics.
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Jul 6, 2015 13:21
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InvincibleMadHouse posted:I don't think there has ever been a straight conservative white male who converted to the left because of a feminist issue. Feminism converts married women every once and a while, but to the guy trolling general chat in WoW, feminism will always and forever represent a force which thwarts his quest for non-pixelated boobies. Nothing more. Women telling him he's wrong doesn't register as a thought but as an emotion. They generally describe themselves as left libertarian. They are all about 'the logic', they are just very bad at it and don't think it all the way through. They actually tend to be quite receptive about feminism if they have lowered their guard and you couch it in very neutral language. If they start agreeing too much they will start to get suspicious and make a tone argument such as: The Snark posted:I am hearing a great deal of things I agree with that don't sync up well with her work and and general manner except for the whinge about people telling them that maybe their incendiary approach is ineffective. Tone policing. Still has a fixation on megaphones.
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Jul 6, 2015 13:22
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yes my way of thinking is why it takes 2-5 votes for a democrat to equal one vote for a republican in most states in every election except federal senate and presidential ones, it's also the reason for all left wing voter apathy ever, because I don't give a gently caress about making concessions to young republicans in waiting. It surely has nothing to do with right-leaning democrats and a bourgeoisie funding class giving people the impression that the parties aren't really all that different. lets trick libertarians into thinking the left wing accepts their impenetrable ignorance because we can't do anything without white guys. InvincibleMadHouse fucked around with this message at 13:28 on Jul 6, 2015 |
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Jul 6, 2015 13:25
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:
^Minority can do nothing wrong ever, all crimes are done by the oppressing majority class exclusively, because crime is actually crime+power, or something.
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Jul 6, 2015 13:31
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Pyromancer posted:^Minority can do nothing wrong ever, all crimes are done by the oppressing majority class exclusively, because crime is actually crime+power, or something. It's also well known that men are the largest minority and have no power at all. The logic works!
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Jul 6, 2015 13:34
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What's central to understanding the deep loathing of "identity politics" is that liberalism is built around the belief that equality comes from everyone having an identical numerical value that constitutes their worth. But such a notion is faulty. In a fire, you want a firefighter, in a medical emergency a nurse, an accountant to help with your taxes, and so on. So this notion of equal worth is constantly at war with the pragmatic fact that some people are more valuable than others in any given situation. Which in turn becomes a sort of hierarchy, which you can see with the loathing of "useless" liberal arts and humanities. In turn, a system of structural hierarchy like racism or sexism, which defines what roles people may play, is one that also constantly wars with equality of worth. The common answer for people on the left end of liberalism is to pretend that it's not there, that all people are still equal in numerical value. So attempting to redress this structural devaluation is "identity politics", which must be rejected since they make the speaker uncomfortable. Another answer, of course, is papering over racism and sexism. So Gamergate, composed primarily of liberals according to its proponents, must reject feminism that suggests women are made unequal, or antiracism that suggests black people are made unequal, by society. Instead, they accept the feminism of Christina Hoff Sommers and Camille Paglia and Lawrence Summers, where women are functional unequal but still have the same numerical worth. EDIT: In fact, look at the guy concerned at the plague of women rapists. Unwilling to admit that the structure of society is one where women are expected to absorb the constant fear of rape in order to bind them to men as "protectors", they conclude that women are "just as bad".
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Jul 6, 2015 13:41
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Broniki posted:Men they think might be rapists (although statistically they very likely won't be) who they think are significantly likely enough to assault them because their sense of victimhood and paranoia have been inflated through the roof by the cult they've subscribed to. This isn't because of feminism. It doesn't have anything to do with the statistics of black-on-white crime or whatever. Men aren't some suspect class subject to prejudice and oppression from women. Women are, in general, wary of men. This is not due to feminists tricking women into being misandrist. It's because one in three women in the world will be raped or sexually abused in their lifetime. It is a basic truth of gender relations in our world. (Of course there's the problem with "Schrodinger's rapist" is that you are more likely to be raped by an acquaintance, such as a friend or your significant other). What the hell are you talking about? BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 13:53 on Jul 6, 2015 |
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Jul 6, 2015 13:48
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:It's because one in three women in the world will be raped or sexually abused in their lifetime. It is a basic truth of gender relations in our world. I guess this is the part where I post the dismissive thing.(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 6, 2015 13:56
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:
I'm talking about paranoia and crossing the streets, if you walk to the other side for fear of being raped by random dude walking toward you, you should run like the wind if the dude is also black, cause that makes it statistically 6 or so times more likely. Outside of paranoid delusions though, there's really no point to cross the street to avoid anyone. Also, citation needed on 1 in 3, it was 1 in 4 last time in bullshit feminist statistics(easily done by formulating questions in a way even having drunk sex would be added to rape statistics) Pyromancer fucked around with this message at 13:58 on Jul 6, 2015 |
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Jul 6, 2015 13:56
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Pyromancer posted:I'm talking about paranoia and crossing the streets, if you walk to the other side for fear of being raped by random dude walking toward you, you should run like the wind if the dude is also black, cause that makes it statistically 6 or so times more likely. Outside of paranoid delusions though, there's really no point to cross the street to avoid anyone. People are not crossing the street because of "statistics", they are doing so because our society is one where women are made to fear rape when in a public space, to force them into private spaces or the authority of a man. Men, of course, are encouraged to believe that this is insanity so that they can assist in controlling women.
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Jul 6, 2015 13:58
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:This isn't because of feminism. It doesn't have anything to do with the statistics of black-on-white crime or whatever. Men aren't some suspect class subject to prejudice and oppression from women. Sure they are. Even a majority can be subject to stereotypes and misinformation, but you are right that it isn't because of feminism. If anything it's as others have noted, it's an exaggeration encouraged- wittingly or not- by patriarchal tendencies. Fear the men, the men are dangerous- that's why it's important to have your own guardian man you see. Feminists who amp up the fear play into that rather nicely.
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Jul 6, 2015 14:02
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The Snark posted:Sure they are. Even a majority can be subject to stereotypes and misinformation, but you are right that it isn't because of feminism. If anything it's as others have noted, it's an exaggeration encouraged- wittingly or not- by patriarchal tendencies. Banshees and goblins who amp up the fear of your children failing to succeed play into helicopter parenting very nicely, but they don't exist either.
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Jul 6, 2015 14:03
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Effectronica posted:Banshees and goblins who amp up the fear of your children failing to succeed play into helicopter parenting very nicely, but they don't exist either. Effectronica posted:EDIT: In fact, look at the guy concerned at the plague of women rapists. Unwilling to admit that the structure of society is one where women are expected to absorb the constant fear of rape in order to bind them to men as "protectors", they conclude that women are "just as bad". I assume your singular point is that there are no feminists who play up fears of rape? That... doesn't seem terribly likely to be true.
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Jul 6, 2015 14:06
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Effectronica posted:People are not crossing the street because of "statistics", they are doing so because our society is one where women are made to fear rape when in a public space, to force them into private spaces or the authority of a man. Men, of course, are encouraged to believe that this is insanity so that they can assist in controlling women. If only this fear hadn't been manufactured by by a certain group who has a vested interest in removing agency from women and keeping them in permanent victimhood through strategies like repeating false statistics such as "1 in 3 women will be raped" (or is it 1 in 4 or 1 in 5? Well, they do say it's difficult to keep your story straight when you're lying).
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Jul 6, 2015 14:06
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no you see if we don't blame feminism for "exaggerating" with their "statistics" then we can't get left leaning libertarians to set their agenda for them, and that would make us the real rear end in a top hat patriarchs. Oooh I know, lets make a less lenient definition of rape for them to work with so they won't be so afraid of their husband or boyfriend or study partner forcing themselves on them after a few too many beers because anti-feminist white guys are a really good authority on crimes they actively defend  the idea that you think women are in a constant state of fear over this stuff is insane. It isn't fear, it's anger, desperation, and paranoia, which are justified reactions to rape apologist being literally everywhere online. InvincibleMadHouse fucked around with this message at 14:12 on Jul 6, 2015 |
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Jul 6, 2015 14:07
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Broniki posted:I guess this is the part where I post the dismissive You totally owned those SJWs at the World Health Organisation. Great job. But turns out I was misquoting. It was actually "physical or sexual violence" which I guess makes it more peachy. Again, men are not a suspect class. There is no conspiracy to trick women into being misandrists. Pyromancer posted:I'm talking about paranoia and crossing the streets, if you walk to the other side for fear of being raped by random dude walking toward you, you should run like the wind if the dude is also black, cause that makes it statistically 6 or so times more likely. Outside of paranoid delusions though, there's really no point to cross the street to avoid anyone. If you're not stupid, you should realise that's the wrong question. It's not "do you cross the street to avoid black people". It's more like "if you were black, would you think that white police officers will treat you impartially"? But even that fails, because gender is not a "suspect class".
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Jul 6, 2015 14:08
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The Snark posted:I assume your singular point is that there are no feminists who play up fears of rape? That... doesn't seem terribly likely to be true. So find one, then. Then you could conceivably go on to show how influential they are, to make your comment make sense. Broniki posted:If only this fear hadn't been manufactured by by a certain group who has a vested interest in removing agency from women and keeping them in permanent victimhood through strategies like repeating false statistics such as "1 in 3 women will be raped" (or is it 1 in 4 or 1 in 5? Well, they do say it's difficult to keep your story straight when you're lying). Feminism must necessarily be anti-women in the liberal mindset, because it admits that society has made some people unequal and this must be redressed. So persons like yourselves, spear-carriers of capitalism, write idiotic comments about how nobody feared rape or sexual assault before the monster Gloria Steinem rose from the earth.
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Jul 6, 2015 14:08
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