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Hadaka Apron posted:I'm sure that plenty of them were inappropriate, but I doubt that all of them were inappropriate. Sometimes you need a scalpel instead of a bludgeon. If there were 20,000 posts like you say there were, and many if not most of them were inappropriate, I don't blame the mods for not caring enough to spend all day separating the good from the bad. Why was it so necessary to keep the posts? Were you storing all of your life's work in there?
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Jul 7, 2015 00:15
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circ dick soleil posted:There can't possibly be 20,000 abusive or illegal posts on the internet, right? You make jokes but the loss of 20,000 reddit posts is basically akin to the destruction of the library of Alexandria. However will we reach the stars without u/goku1488 notifying us that a woman is an ugly slut
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Jul 7, 2015 00:15
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I don't think Zoe Quinn literally slept with all of reddit's/neogaf's/whereever's mods to get the posts deleted, I think the mods were cut from the same cloth as her and like many of the journos decided to circle the wagons when they saw what they perceived to be "one of their own under attack". This, ironically, only made things worse as it created the image of a vast conspiracy rather than a bunch of morons making the same bad decision more or less independently.
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Jul 7, 2015 00:16
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Can we all agree that Anita Sarkessan is detrimental to both sides of the equation. She provides an insanely strong strawman for the opposition (not saying that makes their argument good, its inherently a strawman) but she also actively weakens the strength of her own side by being so wildly ill-informed and emotion-bating.
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Jul 7, 2015 00:16
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The Droid posted:I don't think Zoe Quinn literally slept with all of reddit's mods to get the posts deleted, I think the mods were cut from the same cloth as her and like many of the journos decided to circle the wagons when they saw what they perceived to be "one of their own under attack". This, ironically, only made things worse as it created the image of a vast conspiracy rather than a bunch of morons making the same bad decision more or less independently. Again, it's not about the truth, it's the perception of truth. It seems that a campaign so devoted to ethics would want to clearly delineate the two. As far as I'm aware no attempt has been made to do so by anyone on this crusade.
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Jul 7, 2015 00:17
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Hadaka Apron posted:I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that their heavy-handed actions made it look like she held enormous influence. How is that her fault?
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Jul 7, 2015 00:18
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The Droid posted:I don't think Zoe Quinn literally slept with all of reddit's/neogaf's/whereever's mods to get the posts deleted, I think the mods were cut from the same cloth as her and like many of the journos decided to circle the wagons when they saw what they perceived to be "one of their own under attack". This, ironically, only made things worse as it created the image of a vast conspiracy rather than a bunch of morons making the same bad decision more or less independently. This. My objection to those heavy-handed tactics are that they didn't work, and similar tactics have failed horribly in the past.
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Jul 7, 2015 00:19
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This seems to be a pretty good blog about SJWs and their history on the internet, seems well sourced too: http://sjwar.blogspot.ru/
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Jul 7, 2015 00:19
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Hadaka Apron posted:This. My objection to those heavy-handed tactics are that they didn't work, and similar tactics have failed horribly in the past. You still haven't adequately explained how Zoe is responsible for this, though.
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Jul 7, 2015 00:22
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ArbitraryC posted:In my opinion the spark that started the flame was the doublestandard in how Eron airing dirty laundry about their relationships was handled compared to the situations involving max and that other dude with a futurama avatar on twitter that got accused of raping a coworker. What I saw was a lot of people going "man zoe did some awful things to eron" and getting mad about it and their discussions getting censored and shut down. They then took advantage of a few shitlords harassing zoe to paint everyone who said anything negative about her as a misogynist. After the zoe fiasco both max and the futurama guy shared messages and threats they got, the futurama guy said people emailed him details of his kid's school schedules and their address and such, but you never saw gawker and the media tripping over themselves to paint everyone who was upset with the potential rapes as awful death threat sending people. Dude, you can't even remember who half the supposed parties involved even are, how can we trust you to have an accurate recollection at all?
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Jul 7, 2015 00:22
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BexGu posted:To bring it to ethics in game journalism do you agree/disagree with IGN's Standards of Practices(Not needed, too far, too little, etc)? They came about around October of last year: http://www.ign.com/wikis/ign/Standards_and_Practices Other Pro I guess I'm not really clear what the point of it is. That is perfectly standard if perhaps a bit too loose in places for my tastes. If that is GG's end goal then they won before they even started, barring exceptions which are literally always going to be the case in any form of journalism. (Fox New exists after all.)
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Jul 7, 2015 00:23
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ArbitraryC posted:In my opinion the spark that started the flame was the doublestandard in how Eron airing dirty laundry about their relationships was handled compared to the situations involving max and that other dude with a futurama avatar on twitter that got accused of raping a coworker. I'll go out on a limb here and suggest that the situation here can hardly be called a double-standard, considering that between those people (Eron's ex, Max, "that other dude with a futurama avatar on twitter,") only one was subjected to a literal hate mob trying to destroy that person's name and reputation.
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Jul 7, 2015 00:23
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One of the saddest things about this is that Eron appears to sincerely believe that if he manages restate his opinion or clarify it more clearly, presenting the most air-tight evidence imaginable or w/e everything will be fine when at this point it is far, far too late for that.
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Jul 7, 2015 00:24
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Who What Now posted:Dude, you can't even remember who half the supposed parties involved even are, how can we trust you to have an accurate recollection at all? I don't remember one person's name but I do remember screenshots of their tweets, the general context of their tweets, and even the avatar they were using at the time. I've been honest about details i'm muddy on but this isn't one of them and I'm sure someone who's followed the issue from the start knows exactly who I'm talking about. e: if someone has a link to the original gbs thread I'm sure I could find the tweets if you're really that doubtful, I know they were posted several times. ArbitraryC fucked around with this message at 00:28 on Jul 7, 2015 |
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Jul 7, 2015 00:25
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Ddraig posted:You still haven't adequately explained how Zoe is responsible for this, though. Well, she's mentioned on her Twitter how she tried to get the Internet Archive to take down archives of pages where people talked about her: https://twitter.com/thequinnspiracy/status/501723763851816961 And she was also in contact with a moderator of /r/games: 
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Jul 7, 2015 00:26
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The Droid posted:One of the saddest things about this is that Eron appears to sincerely believe that if he manages restate his opinion or clarify it more clearly, presenting the most air-tight evidence imaginable or w/e everything will be fine when at this point it is far, far too late for that. How can you still have sympathy with a guy who tried to literally destroy a woman's life because he wasn't mature enough to deal with a break up by siccing an internet hate mob, who went on to dox and harass her? Eron is an utter poo poo and i hope his attempts to repeal his restraining order fail.
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Jul 7, 2015 00:26
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Knifegrab posted:Can we all agree that Anita Sarkessan is detrimental to both sides of the equation. She provides an insanely strong strawman for the opposition (not saying that makes their argument good, its inherently a strawman) but she also actively weakens the strength of her own side by being so wildly ill-informed and emotion-bating. No, I disagree. I don't think she is misinformed. I do think her analysis is basic, but that has been her intended purpose ever since Fem Freq was stared since she believes that Feminism is for everybody.
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Jul 7, 2015 00:26
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ArbitraryC posted:I don't remember one person's name but I do remember screenshots of their tweets, the general context of their tweets, and even the avatar they were using at the time. I've been honest about details i'm muddy on but this isn't one of them and I'm sure someone who's followed the issue from the start knows exactly who I'm talking about. Well I'm sure when the equivalent of the Bayeux Tapestry of this entire mess is created we can be sure that this knowledge will not be lost to the ages, as it appears to be now.
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Jul 7, 2015 00:26
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Useful Distraction posted:I'll go out on a limb here and suggest that the situation here can hardly be called a double-standard, considering that between those people (Eron's ex, Max, "that other dude with a futurama avatar on twitter,") only one was subjected to a literal hate mob trying to destroy that person's name and reputation. http://gawker.com/remember-when-the-cards-against-humanity-guy-was-accuse-1621559973 this was posted up as a followup like a year after the original max scandal. Yeah they are going out of their way to try and harm his career and bring negative attention to his door. The other guy as I said got literal threats concerning his home and family.
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Jul 7, 2015 00:26
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Knifegrab posted:Can we all agree that Anita Sarkessan is detrimental to both sides of the equation. She provides an insanely strong strawman for the opposition (not saying that makes their argument good, its inherently a strawman) but she also actively weakens the strength of her own side by being so wildly ill-informed and emotion-bating. "Who cares about any of this, but can we agree that Anita is a bitch?"
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Jul 7, 2015 00:27
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Knifegrab posted:Can we all agree that Anita Sarkessan is detrimental to both sides of the equation. She provides an insanely strong strawman for the opposition (not saying that makes their argument good, its inherently a strawman) but she also actively weakens the strength of her own side by being so wildly ill-informed and emotion-bating. No. Literally the only reason Anita Sarkeesan has any power at all is because of people's response to her. She was doing videos for way way before she started doing video game videos. The only reason she went from "person doing Youtube videos" to a public figure is because people responded in an absurdly disproportionate way. There are hundreds of people on Youtube who express opinions I disagree with. Many of them express opinions I think are factually inaccurate or hyperbolic. The only reason Anita Sarkeesan matters at all is because her opposition won't shut up about her.
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Jul 7, 2015 00:28
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I think Anita Sarkeesian's arguments are often overly simple, even counterproductively so, but even if they had more nuance, she would still be saying things gamers didn't want to hear about their beloved games, and they would still act like babies and demand her blood.
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Jul 7, 2015 00:29
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Hadaka Apron posted:Well, she's mentioned on her Twitter how she tried to get the Internet Archive to take down archives of pages where people talked about her: I don't think this is evidence of sufficient heft to back any claim at all. I mean, it doesn't even account for the stuff that was deleted off of 4chan.
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Jul 7, 2015 00:30
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Chipp Zanuff posted:How can you still have sympathy with a guy who tried to literally destroy a woman's life because he wasn't mature enough to deal with a break up by siccing an internet hate mob, who went on to dox and harass her? Eron is an utter poo poo and i hope his attempts to repeal his restraining order fail. Please show me where Eron said "Get 'em, boys" and leased the hounds of twitter war.
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Jul 7, 2015 00:30
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Hadaka Apron posted:Well, she's mentioned on her Twitter how she tried to get the Internet Archive to take down archives of pages where people talked about her: *clutches pearls* 
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Jul 7, 2015 00:31
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The Droid posted:Please show me where Eron said "Get 'em, boys" and leased the hounds of twitter war. It's totally just a coincidence that soon after the Zoe Post people started harassing her, it totally had nothing to do with Eron making a private matter personal.
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Jul 7, 2015 00:31
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Useful Distraction posted:
That was the title of the article, people were discussing the article. Is that a problem?
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Jul 7, 2015 00:32
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The Droid posted:Please show me where Eron said "Get 'em, boys" and leased the hounds of twitter war. He actually specifically said he tried posting it on SA (and the penny arcade forums?) first because he knew we were more against doxxing and letting the internet bleed into the realworld.
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Jul 7, 2015 00:32
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The Droid posted:Please show me where Eron said "Get 'em, boys" and leased the hounds of twitter war. I'm sure that post of him telling people which hotel she'll be staying at was just concern that she may accidentally get lost on her way between penises and forget where she is, and the kindly people on the internet could point her in the right direction like the loving, benevolent overseers they are.
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Jul 7, 2015 00:32
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Chipp Zanuff posted:It's totally just a coincidence that soon after the Zoe Post people started harassing her, it totally had nothing to do with Eron making a private matter personal. Social Justice served imo.
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Jul 7, 2015 00:32
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Powercrazy posted:That was the title of the article No it wasn't.
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Jul 7, 2015 00:33
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Powercrazy posted:That was the title of the article, people were discussing the article. Is that a problem? The title of the article was "Gamers are over".
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Jul 7, 2015 00:33
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Chipp Zanuff posted:It's totally just a coincidence that soon after the Zoe Post people started harassing her, it totally had nothing to do with Eron making a private matter personal. First of all "Bad things happened as the result of something, ergo that was its intent" doesn't make sense. Second of all, don't you mean "A private matter public"?
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Jul 7, 2015 00:33
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Chipp Zanuff posted:It's totally just a coincidence that soon after the Zoe Post people started harassing her, it totally had nothing to do with Eron making a private matter personal.
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Jul 7, 2015 00:34
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Hadaka Apron posted:Well, she's mentioned on her Twitter how she tried to get the Internet Archive to take down archives of pages where people talked about her: More like a moderator of games got in contact with her after poo poo was being posted about her? If there was some conspiratorial friendship web they wouldn't need to publicly message each other first.
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Jul 7, 2015 00:34
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Ddraig posted:I'm sure that post of him telling people which hotel she'll be staying Please cite this post, I do not recall hearing of such a thing
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Jul 7, 2015 00:36
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The Droid posted:Please show me where Eron said "Get 'em, boys" and leased the hounds of twitter war. Much like how a man who places a briefcase with a dossier and $100,000 in cash on the table while sitting with a hired killer but doesn't actually ask him to kill someone isn't an accessory to murder, Eron never literally said "hey go harass this woman" so he isn't responsible because all he did was whip them into a frothing frenzy.
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Jul 7, 2015 00:36
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The Droid posted:First of all "Bad things happened as the result of something, ergo that was its intent" doesn't make sense. So clearly Eron never intended to get back at, to hurt, to inconveniance etc, a woman who recently broken up with and his intentions were pure and just etc etc. Bullshit.
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Jul 7, 2015 00:36
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Who What Now posted:Much like how a man who places a briefcase with a dossier and $100,000 in cash on the table while sitting with a hired killer but doesn't actually ask him to kill someone isn't an accessory to murder, Eron never literally said "hey go harass this woman" so he isn't responsible because all he did was whip them into a frothing frenzy. By this standards anyone pointing out bad things a public figure is doing is inciting harassment.
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Jul 7, 2015 00:37
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ArbitraryC posted:Why is this only seen as such an evil thing when it happened to zoe? The internet justice brigade has taken tons of villains to task over minimal evidence and normally people are quite in favor of an allegedly bad person getting their dues. Eron at least included chatlogs and actual evidence for his claims. Yes this woman is clearly a villain for having sex with someone else other than Eron and thus deserves to be doxxed, have her life scrutinised by a bunch of anonymous fucks and have her name dragged through the mud.
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Jul 7, 2015 00:39
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