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Ddraig posted:But not acted on. Funny, that. Don't be obtuse.
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Jul 7, 2015 01:02
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Frankly it's a bit weird that the GG set feel the need to deploy an intimate knowledge of the sex lives of strangers to make some sort of point. Most movements for ethics in journalism aren't too concerned about that stuff.
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Jul 7, 2015 01:03
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Useful Distraction posted:This doesn't prove that any of that coverage was false (which, in fact, it wasn't). But in all honesty, if you're accusing all major media, including foreign press, of portraying your movement in a false light, I'd strongly suggest that you rethink your position and consider that maybe, just maybe, it is you who is wrong, not the entire rest of the world. I wouldn't really say I'm part of the gg side as I stopped following this issue after it seemed like it was going in circles, I just happened to witness the start of gg and am always floored at how well one side has managed to rewrite history of how it all went down.
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Jul 7, 2015 01:05
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I hate yankees posted:4chan is a lot bigger than SA and ethics in games journalism has been a thing with them for years. This is one of the more absurd posts I've read on SA, and your avatar isn't helping.
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Jul 7, 2015 01:05
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Dredging up something from earlier, but Mark Kern is such a clown he got fired from a company he named after himself.
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Jul 7, 2015 01:06
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ArbitraryC posted:That seems like a really ignorant view of media. It's pretty common to have false stuff spread like wildfire or people with the power/money/connections to change the narrative in their favor. In this case it isn't really that the coverage is false it's just that focused specifically on the negative aspects of gg and ignored the negative aspects of the other side. Very few articles were forthright about the scandal involving zoe in the first place and many dismissed complaints against her as a jilted ex lover thing while completely sweeping the whole abusive aspect under the rug. What sort of person with money/power/connections is going to go to bat for some minor indie game developer with a twitter account?
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Jul 7, 2015 01:08
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ArbitraryC posted:It did though, that's literally when it started. If the same communities and blogs that threw max under the bus gave Zoe the same treatment gamergate would have never been a thing. Instead zoe used her connections first to try and censor the issue, and then when that didn't work, to have an organized smear campaign that misrepresented people's grievances and characterized everything as misogynistic in nature. Yes, I also remember when she became a sociopathic manipulator devil.
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Jul 7, 2015 01:09
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computer parts posted:So why are people using the name "Gamergate"? You're going to sit here and attempt to pick apart anything I'm saying because attrition is the only way you can win an argument around here. Why does it matter why people are using the dumb hashtag? You literally cannot accept the fact that some people used that hashtag for something else besides slut shaming and that purpose is something that has clearly been documented for years.
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Jul 7, 2015 01:11
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StandardVC10 posted:What sort of person with money/power/connections is going to go to bat for some minor indie game developer with a twitter account? In this case i think it was more coincidence than anything, the smaller video game journals and blogs and such that zoe did have connections to had already circled the wagons and went for the "this is all about men in games harassing women' angle and as gender politics are kind of trendy right now it was a message that sold well coupled with fairly lazy journalism where the only investigation is rewriting other journal articles. There were a couple articles that did a more in depth dive to the origins of gamergate and usually they came across far more neutral and less dismissive.
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Jul 7, 2015 01:11
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ArbitraryC posted:That seems like a really ignorant view of media. It's pretty common to have false stuff spread like wildfire or people with the power/money/connections to change the narrative in their favor. In this case it isn't really that the coverage is false it's just that focused specifically on the negative aspects of gg and ignored the negative aspects of the other side. Very few articles were forthright about the scandal involving zoe in the first place and many dismissed complaints against her as a jilted ex lover thing while completely sweeping the whole abusive aspect under the rug. There is no conspiracy.
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Jul 7, 2015 01:11
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It didn't take a smear campaign to make Gamergate look misogynistic, it took basic observational skills. There was a time when you couldn't click on the twitter profile of a gater without seeing the "five guys" meme.
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Jul 7, 2015 01:12
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Useful Distraction posted:This is one of the more absurd posts I've read on SA, and your avatar isn't helping. It's true, I'm sorry that's shocking to you. Feel free to google the many videos they've made over the years pertaining to games journalism.
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Jul 7, 2015 01:12
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I hate yankees posted:Why does it matter why people are using the dumb hashtag? Because they could be using any other hashtag. Using a symbol that has discriminatory history tends to make people think that you support that discriminatory history.
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Jul 7, 2015 01:14
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ArbitraryC posted:Very few articles were forthright about the scandal involving zoe in the first place and many dismissed complaints against her as a jilted ex lover thing while completely sweeping the whole abusive aspect under the rug. ...do you think that news articles generally spread ex-lover's allegations as fact? Hey, remember that whole SPJ code of ethics thing that gamergaters are all about? quote:
Well gee, I wonder why the nefarious mainstream media didn't spread some nobody's allegations of cheating, and instead went with this absurd harassment "narrative?"
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Jul 7, 2015 01:15
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One thing I remembered about GamerGate is one of the more vocal people "leading the charge" is PressFartToContinue, a guy who creeped on Dodger, who runs the PressHeartToContinue YouTube channel, to the point he doxxed her and contacted her parents because he was "worried about" her or something. http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1s2fjne The dude also tried to harass TotalBiscuit because TB called him out on it and told him off on a few occassions. http://www.twitlonger.com/show/nh2uij GamerGate is about the ethics in games journalism, as defined by people who have a history of being creeps on the internet.
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Jul 7, 2015 01:15
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computer parts posted:Using a symbol that has discriminatory history tends to make people think that you support that discriminatory history. Symbols mean different things to different people
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Jul 7, 2015 01:15
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Knifegrab posted:Can we all agree that Anita Sarkessan is detrimental to both sides of the equation. She provides an insanely strong strawman for the opposition (not saying that makes their argument good, its inherently a strawman) but she also actively weakens the strength of her own side by being so wildly ill-informed and emotion-bating. It's totally clickbaiting or viewbaiting or whatever, but I have a hunch that the majority of FemFreq's views come from MRAs and GamerGaters looking for something to get angry about.
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Jul 7, 2015 01:17
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computer parts posted:Because they could be using any other hashtag. Maybe it's only been made to look like it has a discriminatory history? From what I recall there were plenty of donation drives and such for female devs under gamergate, they actively doxxed and fought harassers, and all the sites that discussed gg stuff specifically had rules against harassment and such. I mean there are plenty of people who say or do obnoxious stuff in the name of almost any social cause but generally it's seen as lazy to characterize an entire group based on the actions of a few.
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Jul 7, 2015 01:17
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computer parts posted:Because they could be using any other hashtag. Oh yeah, that'll work because you can control who uses a hashtag.
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Jul 7, 2015 01:17
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ArbitraryC posted:Maybe it's only been made to look like it has a discriminatory history? From what I recall there were plenty of donation drives and such for female devs under gamergate, they actively doxxed and fought harassers, and all the sites that discussed gg stuff specifically had rules against harassment and such. The origin of the hashtag has a discriminatory history.
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Jul 7, 2015 01:18
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Useful Distraction posted:...do you think that news articles generally spread ex-lover's allegations as fact? Hey, remember that whole SPJ code of ethics thing that gamergaters are all about? But the same websites (talking about gawker and such) were totally willing to drag dudes like max through the mud off even less evidence and didn't instead take the narrative that the lady posting the allegations was harassing him.
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Jul 7, 2015 01:19
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I hate yankees posted:It's true, I'm sorry that's shocking to you. Feel free to google the many videos they've made over the years pertaining to games journalism. Nah, I'm good. The Droid posted:Symbols mean different things to different people 
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Jul 7, 2015 01:19
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The GamerGate tag was first coined by Adam Baldwin, in a tweet with a link to the "Five Guys" video. There's no separating that history. It didn't "evolve" into something else. It didn't change for the better. It got worse and expanded in scope.
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Jul 7, 2015 01:20
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ArbitraryC posted:It's pretty common to have false stuff spread like wildfire... See: any Max Temkin related article on a Gawker owned site.
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Jul 7, 2015 01:20
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I hate yankees posted:Oh yeah, that'll work because you can control who uses a hashtag. Obviously there's some reason why GamersGate in particular was chosen. The Droid posted:Symbols mean different things to different people Like Swastikas, the Confederate flag...
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Jul 7, 2015 01:21
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ArbitraryC posted:But the same websites (talking about gawker and such) were totally willing to drag dudes like max through the mud off even less evidence? So are you mad about people not considering Zoe's ex a credible sourse, or Gawker (I doubt there's a "and such") discussing the allegations against Tempkin?
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Jul 7, 2015 01:21
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Unfunny Poster posted:One thing I remembered about GamerGate is one of the more vocal people "leading the charge" is PressFartToContinue, a guy who creeped on Dodger, who runs the PressHeartToContinue YouTube channel, to the point he doxxed her and contacted her parents because he was "worried about" her or something. It's really odd when people do those kind of things and lack the self-awareness to realize that it really makes you come off as being a rapist. But thanks to GamerGate you're no longer allowed to call anything rapey except for rape itself. I'd want to see this guy get his rear end kicked by some girl's understandably pissed off ex-cop father and then cry on the internet about how he got beat up by a radical feminist white knight and it's time to fight back and blah blah blah. circ dick soleil fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Jul 7, 2015 |
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Jul 7, 2015 01:21
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ArbitraryC posted:Why are we here on sa being made to answer for some minor fraction of the gg movement that sends threatening emails? "Minor". You know this would be hilarious if I didn't know you believed this.
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Jul 7, 2015 01:22
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computer parts posted:Obviously there's some reason why GamersGate in particular was chosen. 
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Jul 7, 2015 01:23
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Bullfrog posted:The GamerGate tag was first coined by Adam Baldwin, in a tweet with a link to the "Five Guys" video. There's no separating that history. It didn't "evolve" into something else. It didn't change for the better. It evolved in the sense that a cancer can metastasize.
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Jul 7, 2015 01:23
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Useful Distraction posted:So are you mad about people not considering Zoe's ex a credible sourse, or Gawker (I doubt there's a "and such") discussing the allegations against Tempkin? I am mad that it was handled in a complete opposite manner and then they turned around and got on their high horse to say that the people doing the same poo poo they do all the time were bad people inciting harassment or whatever. This is what bunch of people were mad about in the beginning. "Censorship" and 'doublestandards' were two of the chief complaints I read about constantly when the whole scandal started.
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Jul 7, 2015 01:23
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ArbitraryC posted:Maybe it's only been made to look like it has a discriminatory history? From what I recall there were plenty of donation drives and such for female devs under gamergate, they actively doxxed and fought harassers, and all the sites that discussed gg stuff specifically had rules against harassment and such. So you do support doxxing and harassing. Well I'm glad you could at least finally admit it outright.
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Jul 7, 2015 01:25
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circ dick soleil posted:It's really odd when people do those kind of things and lack the self-awareness to realize that it really makes you come off as being a rapist. But thanks to GamerGate you're no longer allowed to call anything rapey except for rape itself. The interesting bit, and I didn't notice it until I linked them, but the first Twitlonger is from July 2014. That's around a month before GamerGate kicked off isn't it? 
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Jul 7, 2015 01:26
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ArbitraryC posted:I am mad that it was handled in a complete opposite manner and then they turned around and got on their high horse to say that the people doing the same poo poo they do all the time were bad people inciting harassment or whatever. This is what bunch of people were mad about in the beginning. "Censorship" and 'doublestandards' were two of the chief complaints I read about constantly when the whole scandal started. Not trying to be glib, but I genuinely can't tell what you're trying to say here.
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Jul 7, 2015 01:26
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Who What Now posted:"Minor". You know this would be hilarious if I didn't know you believed this. well it seems literally everyone on the vaguely pro gg side of SA have not been involved in sending harassing letters to people. I mean what % of the movement do you think has personally done something that constitutes harassment and how would you compare that to the whatever person is getting pilloried this week on twitter for saying or doing something that could be interpreted as bigoted.
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Jul 7, 2015 01:26
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Useful Distraction posted:Not trying to be glib, but I genuinely can't tell what you're trying to say here. Women being harassed is considered harassment, which is bad because men may have faced false allegations.
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Jul 7, 2015 01:27
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ArbitraryC posted:well it seems literally everyone on the vaguely pro gg side of SA have not been involved in sending harassing letters to people. I mean what % of the movement do you think has personally done something that constitutes harassment and how would you compare that to the whatever person is getting pilloried this week on twitter for saying or doing something that could be interpreted as bigoted. You can't be stupid enough to think that GG is actually fighing against Twitter outrage culture. GG is Twitter outrage culture.
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Jul 7, 2015 01:29
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ArbitraryC posted:well it seems literally everyone on the vaguely pro gg side of SA have not been involved in sending harassing letters to people. I mean what % of the movement do you think has personally done something that constitutes harassment and how would you compare that to the whatever person is getting pilloried this week on twitter for saying or doing something that could be interpreted as bigoted. Are you pulling some kind of "who among us hasn't told someone to kill themselves via tweet" glass houses throw stones kind of argument? I don't think that's going to turn out well for you if so.
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Jul 7, 2015 01:30
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Useful Distraction posted:Not trying to be glib, but I genuinely can't tell what you're trying to say here. Who What Now posted:So you do support doxxing and harassing. Well I'm glad you could at least finally admit it outright.
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Jul 7, 2015 01:30
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ArbitraryC posted:I'm saying that I think the whole thing is super hypocritical in how it was handled. I don't think zoe should have been harassed anymore than I think max should have been, I'm just pointing out that the people pretending to be morally outraged about harassment in this incidence actively encouraged it in others and I'm sure will continue to do so in the future. People aren't actually outraged by how Quinn etc are treated: they're merely 'pretending'. They are false and manipulative. There is no conspiracy, ArbitracyC.
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Jul 7, 2015 01:31
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