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simplefish posted:Safeguards, in my armed forces? Sir, I infer that you are questioning the officer class' moral fibre; that one may find amongst them a rogue who is no gentleman - and let me tell you in no uncertain terms that I do not like the cut of your jib. hey  MAD assumes rational actors. The problem is, people aren't. You gotta do what you gotta do 
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Jul 7, 2015 17:30
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No, in what is by now surely a common twist for this thread, it's not hyperbole - I'm actually talking about real life:http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2007/11_november/15/newsnight.shtml posted:National Archive papers show that, in 1966, Chief Scientific Adviser Solly Zuckerman formally advised Defence Secretary Denis Healey that Britain needed to install PALs on its nuclear weapons to keep them safe.
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Jul 7, 2015 17:42
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F-16 and a Cessna had an unfortunate intersection: http://wjhl.com/2015/07/07/reports-of-plane-crash-in-moncks-corner/
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Jul 7, 2015 17:44
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Phanatic posted:F-16 and a Cessna had an unfortunate intersection: quote:The pilot of the F-16 ejected. "The pilot of the Cessna... not so much"
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Jul 7, 2015 18:18
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The pilot of the Cessna was ejected.
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Jul 7, 2015 18:22
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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LtCol J. Krusinski posted:If literally every single poster in this thread hasn't already gotten a copy of DEFCON the PC Game they should choke themselves. Bravo.Romeo.Delta.  Fickle and barely playable mess that it is. Come on man I'd expect you to have more love for a game with multiple ICBM types. Truth is I just need to pay Baloogan to recreate the game in Command. As some people have made some neat SAC and CONUS air defense scenarios complete with Nike Hercules over the PNW. simplefish posted:No, in what is by now surely a common twist for this thread, it's not hyperbole - I'm actually talking about real life: Google Letters of Last Resort...well I think that was the name. There is also a BBC Radio documentary about British SSBNs...and everything HMSperg posted a few months ago. Marshal Prolapse fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Jul 7, 2015 |
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Jul 7, 2015 18:25
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Godholio posted:And China is totally not looking to upgrade any of this, and the US is totally not committing to half-assed improvements itself. Totally. The situation today is exactly what it will be in 20 years, and in 40 years, when we are still using exactly the same loving hardware we're using today. Jesus Christ, you're as bad as Bob Gates at this. Out of curiosity what was Bob Gate's problem here, the more details the merrier. 
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Jul 7, 2015 19:09
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gfanikf posted:Google Letters of Last Resort...well I think that was the name. There is also a BBC Radio documentary about British SSBNs...and everything HMSperg posted a few months ago.
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Jul 7, 2015 19:29
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Raenir Salazar posted:Out of curiosity what was Bob Gate's problem here, the more details the merrier. He gutted the raptor buy.
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Jul 7, 2015 19:38
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Cross posting from D&D thread: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/16/vladimir-putin-opens-russian-military-disneyland-patriot-park There is no way we're not going to war with Russia in the next 20 years because of nationalism fueled militarized zealotry.
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Jul 7, 2015 19:48
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Back Hack posted:Cross posting from D&D thread: Reading that article, I realized that I wish there was some way to do that sort of thing minus the nationalistic militarism. Night Witches themed carnival rides (think that Dumbo ride from Disneyland with cutesy stylized Po-2s in place of the elephants), Tuskegee Airmen souvenirs, airshows starring F-15s and Su-27s and JAS-39s with the pilots coming down to shake hands, smile at each other, and embrace after their high-speed mock dogfight is over... ...goddammit, Putin 
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Jul 7, 2015 20:06
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Back Hack posted:Cross posting from D&D thread: Now if they can only discover the cure to alcoholism I'd be a little worried.
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Jul 7, 2015 20:06
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The end of that reminds me of a picture about how you shouldn't give kids big heavy weapons but instead let them use crew served weapons that support their own weight and help them build cooperation and social skills. Fortunately the cure for alcoholism is economic opportunity, and fat chance of that happening
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Jul 7, 2015 20:19
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PittTheElder posted:The pilot of the Cessna was ejected. 
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Jul 7, 2015 20:41
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xthetenth posted:He gutted the raptor buy. I mean more around the lines of... His justifications and general issues with not planning for other nations capabilities 20 years down the line.
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Jul 7, 2015 20:49
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Basically when the choice was made drat near every acquisition choice in the military was phrased in: How does this help us in Counter-Insurgency/Counter-terrorism. Does it not do anything there? gently caress it give us another option. An F-22 isn't WORTHLESS there but it's the wrong tool for the job entirely and it's expensive. An F-35 is ostensibly much cheaper, actually meant to do ground strike missions, and all three of your air services will be using it. "SOLD! Kill the Raptors! order 2000 F-35s!" Similar decisions ended up giving us the Littoral Combat Ship for brown water operations and also theoretically a whole bunch of other roles depending on what modules are in it. Turns out we don't have a huge demand for that and it's really poorly suited for operations in a theater as big as the Pacific which is now the primary area of concern for the Navy with the Pacific pivot. It's basically the age old problem of preparing for the last war you fought, not the next war you will fight. Alaan fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Jul 7, 2015 |
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Jul 7, 2015 21:17
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The Naval Aviation Museum is amazing:
mlmp08 fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Jul 7, 2015 |
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Jul 7, 2015 22:13
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gfanikf posted:Bravo.Romeo.Delta.  I fondly remember leaving it on autoplay/ignore overnight and waking up to it being on the crisis screen in 2017 due to....an Italian invasion of Switzerland. 
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Jul 7, 2015 22:18
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AceRimmer posted:
The ability to invade and conquer your neighbors or random countries was always fun. Shadow President and Crisis in the Kremlin were always two good counterparts to each other.
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Jul 7, 2015 22:21
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simplefish posted:No, in what is by now surely a common twist for this thread, it's not hyperbole - I'm actually talking about real life: Well, the PAL on Britain's boomers is that you'd pretty much have to have a Red October situation where the *entire officer crew* was united in a plot to steal/ransom the sub's armament. The Letters of Last Resort are also a fun thing to read about - supposedly all Thatcher's said was "Avenge us."
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Jul 7, 2015 22:24
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That Works posted:Needs more "Northern European Islamic sympathizers infiltrate and defect from the Finnish navy and mine a Baltic entryway between Malmo and Copenhagen. While the Dutch turn a blind eye and capitalize off of Scandanavian turmoil a Soviet first strike goes into effect to keep the Western channel off the coast of Nyborg open during the onset of winter." Don't forget to fetishise Sergeants, pregnant women & the nicknames crews give their weapon systems. Preferably in the same paragraph.
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Jul 7, 2015 22:34
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Davin Valkri posted:Reading that article, I realized that I wish there was some way to do that sort of thing minus the nationalistic militarism. Night Witches themed carnival rides (think that Dumbo ride from Disneyland with cutesy stylized Po-2s in place of the elephants), Tuskegee Airmen souvenirs, airshows starring F-15s and Su-27s and JAS-39s with the pilots coming down to shake hands, smile at each other, and embrace after their high-speed mock dogfight is over... Climbing all over a rusted out Tiger husk as a child was baller as gently caress, no cutesy Po-2s needed. Also this whole "military-patriotic upbringing" thing is nothing new, I don't know why Western media is picking now of all times to start freaking out about it.
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Jul 7, 2015 23:39
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Well, Russia wasn't invading anybody and "Going what? Us? We aren't in Ukraine!"
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Jul 7, 2015 23:41
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Ensign Expendable posted:Climbing all over a rusted out Tiger husk as a child was baller as gently caress, no cutesy Po-2s needed. Also this whole "military-patriotic upbringing" thing is nothing new, I don't know why Western media is picking now of all times to start freaking out about it. I think it's a tone issue. Like, I personally wouldn't mind climbing all over an old F-4 or trying to stuff my super long legs in the back of a BMP-1 or Mi-24, but when one of your advocates says something like “In Soviet times the army was a distant, faraway thing, but now we all feel closer to the army. The army is being romanticised and I see that as a good thing...If we don’t educate our own children then America will do it for us … like we have seen in Ukraine,” it's a bit...odd? Like, the American equivalent might sound similar (depending on the motivations of the board of directors), but I'd be willing to bet that the press statements they put out would be something closer to "it's important for us to preserve the artifacts of these conflicts, so that future young Americans will remember they happened and (not take our freedoms for granted/be able to learn from historical perspective/be more informed about similar issues in the future -- delete as appropriate)."
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Jul 8, 2015 01:29
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Alaan posted:Basically when the choice was made drat near every acquisition choice in the military was phrased in: How does this help us in Counter-Insurgency/Counter-terrorism. Does it not do anything there? gently caress it give us another option. While accusing everyone who disagrees with you of last-war-itis.
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Jul 8, 2015 02:14
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Davin Valkri posted:“In Soviet times the army was a distant, faraway thing, but now we all feel closer to the army. The army is being romanticised and I see that as a good thing...If we don’t educate our own children then America will do it for us … like we have seen in Ukraine,” The shortening of the conscription period has probably made society more distant from the military if anything.
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Jul 8, 2015 02:31
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US Army to cut 40,000 troops.
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Jul 8, 2015 02:35
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AceRimmer posted:This is actually a really strange quote, because wasn't the army a closer experience when there was a longer conscription term and larger number of conscripts during the Soviet period? Yeah, I have a feeling that Zaldostanov came from a privileged enough background that he didn't have that much to do with the military when he was the appropriate age to be conscripted.
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Jul 8, 2015 03:01
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I thought this bit at the end was a bit beyond anything one might see in mainstream discussion in the west.quote:While the Igla surface-to-air missile launcher was probably too heavy for very small children, smaller rocket-propelled grenade launchers were perfect for kids of all ages. Kryuchkov added: “All males of all ages are defenders of the motherland and they must be ready for war, whether war comes or not.” 
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Jul 8, 2015 03:10
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Veritek83 posted:I thought this bit at the end was a bit beyond anything one might see in mainstream discussion in the west. 
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Jul 8, 2015 03:15
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Children can take cover more effectively, too. "Hide and Seek" as a SERE exercise.
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Jul 8, 2015 04:29
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I found a F-106 pilot named Bruce Gordon on YouTube that has some interesting stories from back in the day (at least I think I found him on my own and didn't follow a link from here). He's not exactly the most polished orator but the content is neat. Be sure to look at the comments too because he posts some gems:quote:I am confident that we could always intercept the Russian TU-95 Bear, but the British Vulcan jet bomber was fast and hard to detect. A story circulated in Air Defense circles that, at a gathering of generals at SAC HQ in Omaha, Nebraska, a USAF general boasted that no bombers could get through our Air Defense network. A British RAF officer took up the challenge. A few days later, a Vuncan bomber arrived over Omaha, Nebraska, and asked for landing instructions. It had come all the way from England and our air defense network had not detected it! He seems to be of the opinion that the AIM-4 Falcon worked fine when paired with the F-106, for example; it was the F-4 that was the problem in Vietnam.
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Jul 8, 2015 04:31
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quote:I am confident that we could always intercept the Russian TU-95 Bear, but the British Vulcan jet bomber was fast and hard to detect. A story circulated in Air Defense circles that, at a gathering of generals at SAC HQ in Omaha, Nebraska, a USAF general boasted that no bombers could get through our Air Defense network. A British RAF officer took up the challenge. A few days later, a Vuncan bomber arrived over Omaha, Nebraska, and asked for landing instructions. It had come all the way from England and our air defense network had not detected it!  E: I guess if he was really planning on landing he could have done it with one refueling over the Atlantic? E2: http://www.aeroflight.co.uk/aircraft/types/avro-vulcan.htm gives Vulcan ferry range as 7650km and http://www.movable-type.co.uk/scripts/latlong.html gives range from Heathrow to Offutt as 6891km, so I'm wrong, and I will let this stand as a monument to being stupid. goatsestretchgoals fucked around with this message at 04:49 on Jul 8, 2015 |
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Jul 8, 2015 04:39
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The story he may be misremembering (or was told incorrectly) is Operation Skyshield. I found a more detailed description than what Wikipedia has on another forum:quote:The US and Canadian air defence systems were merged within the North American Air Defence Command (NORAD) on 12 May 1958. Coordinated from Colorado Springs in the Rocky Mountains, the Americans and Canadians had every right to be proud of NORAD. To prove it fully they decided to mount a massive air defence exercise (Skyshield) in October 1961 which was to be fully realistic and to which Bomber Command was invited. High Wycombe was more than happy to oblige, especially as it gave them an opportunity to test the new Vulcan B.2 under virtually operational conditions, and 27 and 83 Sqns were detailed to send four aircraft each. The 83 Sqn aircraft were sent to Lossiemouth to attack from the north while the 27 Sqn element went to Kindley AFB, Bermuda, to penetrate from the south. On October 14 both groups set off. The northerly wave began with B47s going in at low level from 500ft upwards jamming out the ground radars. Behind them came the B52s between 35,000ft and 42,000ft supported by B57s, while finally at 56,000ft came the 83 Sqn Vulcans in stream. Electronic countermeasures proved so effective that only the first Vulcan heard an F101 Voodoo lock-on, and though numerous fighters were scrambled they all concentrated on the B52s so that by the time the Vulcans came through the interceptors did not have enough fuel left to climb to 56,000ft for another battle and the British penetrated unscathed to land at Stephenville, Newfoundland.
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Jul 8, 2015 05:38
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbQ9LXZwJ78&t=25s That must have been fun for both crews.
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Jul 8, 2015 06:35
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Godholio posted:While accusing everyone who disagrees with you of last-war-itis. Also sending some of your minions to Creech, seeing the tails that were being used for the FTU, and having them report back that "the AF just has 20 Preds sitting out in the desert doing nothing boss, man they are really being defiant and unhelpful." Cue Operation "Shut Down Creech and Deploy Everyone and Everything," which really was a thing that almost occurred c.2007. OSD literally wanted the AF to completely shut down the FTU in order to "surge" more RPA capability forward, the only assets left at Creech would've been the GCS's flying combat. Left unsaid was what the plan was when everyone got sick of alternating between deployments and 12 hour shifts a day/6 days a week when they're home and quit...and you didn't have a pipeline training anyone to replace them because you shut down the FTU. e: This isn't to say that the AF wasn't unhelpful or didn't drag their feet when it came to developing RPAs, because they did...but holy poo poo OSD had some insane ideas under Gates about what was within the realm of the possible and what was a good idea regarding RPAs.
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Jul 8, 2015 07:29
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNxk-iwUhR0 Су-25. Им вритинг тхис хере то анноы пеопле вох цан реад цыриллиц.
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Jul 8, 2015 12:30
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Holy poo poo http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/aviation/11722557/Libyan-jet-flies-extremely-low-in-flyby.html
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Jul 8, 2015 13:59
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Not enough FOD risk in that MiG-23 pass. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKW-PUKDt9w edit: loving those lob-shot rocket barrages in the Su-25 video above. mlmp08 fucked around with this message at 14:08 on Jul 8, 2015 |
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Jul 8, 2015 14:05
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With all the talk recently about newer Russian ICBMs and a little of the new US LRB program thought it would be worth mentioning that after a RAND report last year (which I think I posted in the thread or one the gip current event threads) it looks like like the BUFF we'll keep updating the Minuteman III as it's cheaper than any other option and will serve US Strategic needs. That said I can't say the idea of new boss MIRVed Peackeeper missile wouldn't be cool...yeah I know what's the point...but damnit if I don't like my ICBMs to be absolute insane death dealing machines...that will sit in silos and eventually be decommissioned. I did like that rail and mobile options were discussed  Admittedly there is something cool about missiles using a rail system. Link to the report. http://www.rand.org/pubs/monographs/MG1210.html
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Jul 8, 2015 15:07
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