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black potus posted:who didn't see that one coming Maynard
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Jul 7, 2015 21:03
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would you say ... he lost pascal's wager ...
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Jul 7, 2015 21:04
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I am glad we are making fun of a guy who tried to do something nice and generous for being a big stupid idiot who doesn't realize our lousy community would be dicks to him. It would be really good satire to make fun of him for that, if it was satire
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Jul 7, 2015 21:09
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rabidsquid posted:I am glad we are making fun of a guy who tried to do something nice and generous for being a big stupid idiot who doesn't realize our lousy community would be dicks to him. I love magic, but the community sucks major rear end.
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Jul 7, 2015 21:10
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rabidsquid posted:I am glad we are making fun of a guy who tried to do something nice and generous for being a big stupid idiot who doesn't realize our lousy community would be dicks to him. I don't know who's making fun of who but I'm making fun of the non magic people who commented that the goyf being $15k was a sure thing weighing in on the situation in the week after.
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Jul 7, 2015 21:12
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black potus posted:would you say ... he lost pascal's wager ...  Oh it's a great thing he's doing this, I don't think we're mocking him for that. It's more like what did he expected to happen from a community who thinks banning a rapist (let's not start this discussion again please) is a bad idea.
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Jul 7, 2015 21:12
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it's good that pascal was/is giving money to charity, but not as good as my pascal's wager joke, thank you
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Jul 7, 2015 21:12
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No one is doubting that the goyf is real though.
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Jul 7, 2015 21:14
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I don't know how the gently caress anyone thought a bid over $5,000 for a random Tarmogoyf involved in a super minor-controversy was legit. Hell, Craig Jones' Lightning Helix is clearly a way cooler piece of Magic history because it actually was involved in a neat competitive moment, whereas Maynard's Tarmogoyf's notoriety is mostly that it was part of a regrettable moment where the community, pros included, showed that its full of shitlords.
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Jul 7, 2015 21:23
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he should raise money to rip it up in front of Owen and Reid or rip it up and cook it into chili and make Owen eat it in front of the entire MTG community
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Jul 7, 2015 21:30
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Gyshall posted:he should raise money to rip it up in front of Owen and Reid or rip it up and cook it into chili and make Owen eat it in front of the entire MTG community I'd donate $20 to charity to see that.
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Jul 7, 2015 21:35
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A small part of me wants WOTC to start supporting the pro scene in the same capacity that Valve supports Dota 2 in the hopes that the higher prize pools will attract better players and wash out all current pros. The ego-driven twitter meltdowns would be great schadenfreude.
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Jul 7, 2015 21:43
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If WoTC put the kind of money Valve or Ten Cent did into their mobas it would be so much better for the game on every level, but it seems like Hasbro is too greedy/short term to be willing to make a move like that.
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Jul 7, 2015 21:44
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ThePeavstenator posted:A small part of me wants WOTC to start supporting the pro scene in the same capacity that Valve supports Dota 2 in the hopes that the higher prize pools will attract better players and wash out all current pros. The ego-driven twitter meltdowns would be great schadenfreude. Lol if you think the dota/SC/LOL community is good or something we should strive for or that pros' living wage is a good goal E: just told this to my dota playing friend as we're playing magic ATM and he lol'd at thinking his community is any good
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Jul 7, 2015 21:57
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ThePeavstenator posted:A small part of me wants WOTC to start supporting the pro scene in the same capacity that Valve supports Dota 2 in the hopes that the higher prize pools will attract better players and wash out all current pros. The ego-driven twitter meltdowns would be great schadenfreude. Is there a lot of variance in DotA the same way there is in Magic?
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Jul 7, 2015 22:02
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Chill la Chill posted:Lol if you think the dota/SC/LOL community is good or something we should strive for or that pros' living wage is a good goal At least with magic pros don't leave the game with permanent damage from RSIs
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Jul 7, 2015 22:05
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So lets say that wotc decides a card is too powerful to ever be reprinted in standard. Wouldn't it make sense to either to be more aggressive with supplemental products or simply ban them for modern? Wouldn't that be healthier for the game?
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Jul 7, 2015 22:06
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TheKingofSprings posted:Is there a lot of variance in DotA the same way there is in Magic? No but there's much more significant metagame considerations when you draft a team.
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Jul 7, 2015 22:08
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Sickening posted:So lets say that wotc decides a card is too powerful to ever be reprinted in standard. Wouldn't it make sense to either to be more aggressive with supplemental products or simply ban them for modern? Wouldn't that be healthier for the game? From The Vault: Modern Masters 2016
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Jul 7, 2015 22:08
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TheKingofSprings posted:Is there a lot of variance in DotA the same way there is in Magic? I don't know what you mean by variance. If you're talking skill level then yes, of course all different levels of skill play Dota. If you're talking meta then also yes, every few months a patch comes out that shakes up the professionally-viable hero pool similar to the way each set changes the playable decks and cards in standard. If you're talking strategy then again yes, there are several different ways to compose your team. You can base your draft around fighting, pushing down towers, getting one hero very farmed and winning the game for you, etc. E: If you're talking mechanics/interactions I would say the Magic has Dota beat. Ever since Dota 2 came out the old, weird interactions in Warcraft 3 Dota have been getting homogenized now that there are no engine restrictions. ThePeavstenator fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Jul 7, 2015 |
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Jul 7, 2015 22:09
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variance is what magic players blame when they lose bc "i drew too many lands" bruises the ego less than "i'm bad"
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Jul 7, 2015 22:10
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Sickening posted:So lets say that wotc decides a card is too powerful to ever be reprinted in standard. Wouldn't it make sense to either to be more aggressive with supplemental products or simply ban them for modern? Wouldn't that be healthier for the game? There was an article someone wrote about how wotc likes to sit on cards that are trending highly but aren't necessarily too powerful for a particular format as a way to make sure they can push a supplemental product later. I mean this makes sense as long as this business model isn't restricting the size of their player base. Sometimes it's not clear what WotC wants in terms of its player base size because they are kind of dependent on distributors to make sure demand for game keeps in line with ability to hold large events. Also like, there's the idea that without SCG buttressing it with the open series, legacy would probably not be nearly as popular a format.
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Jul 7, 2015 22:12
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Sickening posted:So lets say that wotc decides a card is too powerful to ever be reprinted in standard. Wouldn't it make sense to either to be more aggressive with supplemental products or simply ban them for modern? Wouldn't that be healthier for the game? They could always print it at uncommon in Modern Masters.
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Jul 7, 2015 22:14
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black potus posted:variance is what magic players blame when they lose bc "i drew too many lands" bruises the ego less than "i'm bad" In that case then yes Dota variance is when you queue into a stack a Peruvians/Russians depending on your region and instead of trying to make do with what you get, you immediately rage and type "GG TEAM IS PERU NOOBS NO SUPPORT" and start feeding couriers.
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Jul 7, 2015 22:14
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Dota doesn't have much in the way of randomness though. When you draw in Magic there's (probably) no telling what you're going to get. Dota's heroes all have very set abilities and there's very little in the way of randomness there. Some, but not much. What's everyone going for prerelease? I'm definitely thinking Blue based on LSV's set review (which is out now) and my own desire to counter things. Xmage testing of my mill deck has been going well, I think there's a competitive deck in here if I can figure out the right mix of removal and whatnot. I've added in 3 Monastery Siege and 3 Thopter Spy Network, as well as some Darksteel Citadels to make sure the Spy Network can get online. The added card draw from Siege helps me get into the enchantments I need, and Thopter Spy Network gives me blockers and more card draw if I do get some board control. Both also fuel Sphinx's Tutelage, the main hitter. I'd like to fit Silumgar's Scorn in there but without Dragons it seems difficult, and while I really like Mindscour Dragon, I think he's a bit too slow to work here.
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Jul 7, 2015 22:15
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Red because I'm too much of a noob to play a deck where the objective is not "attack every turn" and "empty your hand"
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Jul 7, 2015 22:17
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Dohaeris posted:Dota doesn't have much in the way of randomness though. When you draw in Magic there's (probably) no telling what you're going to get. Dota's heroes all have very set abilities and there's very little in the way of randomness there. Some, but not much. The haste rune is peak variance in dotes unless you are Gustav Magnusson in which case it always spawns for you. Also before this turns into community tribalism (the worst thing about moba threads) because all communities have their bad aspects and logistics prevent it from being one way or the other let's laugh at this: quote:Dave Williams and I met in a feature match, and Mark Rosewater commented: from a 2006 article by osyp also another great line: quote:“All of the girls in Boston must have been Black or Artifact creatures, because Johnny Magic just couldn't get through to them.”
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Jul 7, 2015 22:18
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ThePeavstenator posted:A small part of me wants WOTC to start supporting the pro scene in the same capacity that Valve supports Dota 2 in the hopes that the higher prize pools will attract better players and wash out all current pros. The ego-driven twitter meltdowns would be great schadenfreude. I don't think Magic could work as a spectator e-sport the same way Dota/LOL do. First, for constructed, you have to spend between a few hundred and a few thousand bucks to play with the same decks that you see the pros use. Even limited can be expensive at more than $5 per game on MTGO (not sure about the price, I don't play limited). You will only get so many people genuinely interested in the game when they can't watch their favorite pros make sick plays and then log in after the game and play the same hero. Second, those sick plays in Magic are a lot less sick compared to other sports and e-sports. The game in general is a lot less tilted towards rewarding pro-level play. My 4 friends and I would be lucky to win a single game in 100 against the worst pro Dota teams, but in Magic I can probably win 10%-20% against the best players in the world. The differences in pro-level play are a big deal over a 2-day tournament, but they aren't flashy or immediately recognizable. That is all of course leaving aside the logistical problems with coverage. If we're talking physical cards, then they're hard to see, I can't always tell what's in a player's hand, there are huge opportunities to cheat, etc. Let's not even consider the possibility of getting MTGO to the point where you'd want to be streaming tournament Magic using it.
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Jul 7, 2015 22:18
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shameful goons, discussing pascal's failed foil goyf auction and not posting this:
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Jul 7, 2015 22:22
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In a similar vein, why are Hearthstone streams 100x more popular than Magic?
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Jul 7, 2015 22:24
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I wish there was a way to reprint a couple powerful over priced cards in a standard legal set with out them becoming modern legal.
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Jul 7, 2015 22:26
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Rinkles posted:In a similar vein, why are Hearthstone streams 100x more popular than Magic? Because it's an easier game to understand and because blizzard is like, way better at marketing. Also an easier game to just pick up and play from your own computer. The overhead for getting into constructed magic is like, way higher than that of hearthstone. Zoness fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Jul 7, 2015 |
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Jul 7, 2015 22:28
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PERPETUAL IDIOT posted:I don't think Magic could work as a spectator e-sport the same way Dota/LOL do. It was just meant to be a cute thought. I was trying to point out that there seem to be a lot of egos at the top of this game and it's kind of a turn-off for me as a new player. There are definitely egos in e-sports too but at least in that case it's backed up by amazing plays. Dota pros often don't know about every change and every minute interaction. They'll usually acknowledge that even though a meta exists, anything in the game can work with the right team and skills. The small amount of the MTG pro scene I've seen seems to be dominated by people who think they know best and that the game is only for them and the "hardcore" crowd. I don't like the attitude I've seen from pros where they scoff at/ignore the younger and casual players that would pick the awesome foil goyf in limited even if it didn't fit into their deck.
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Jul 7, 2015 22:29
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A lot of mtg pros have awful ego problems because they are also poker pros and that community is toxic enough that mtg looks like splatoon by comparison
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Jul 7, 2015 22:31
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ThePeavstenator posted:It was just meant to be a cute thought. I was trying to point out that there seem to be a lot of egos at the top of this game and it's kind of a turn-off for me as a new player. There are definitely egos in e-sports too but at least in that case it's backed up by amazing plays. Dota pros often don't know about every change and every minute interaction. They'll usually acknowledge that even though a meta exists, anything in the game can work with the right team and skills. The small amount of the MTG pro scene I've seen seems to be dominated by people who think they know best and that the game is only for them and the "hardcore" crowd. I don't like the attitude I've seen from pros where they scoff at/ignore the younger and casual players that would pick the awesome foil goyf in limited even if it didn't fit into their deck. I think part of this is that north america in magic is like, way more prominent than north america in dota. NADota as a community and as a scene are terminally bad.
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Jul 7, 2015 22:31
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Rinkles posted:In a similar vein, why are Hearthstone streams 100x more popular than Magic? You can see what is going on in Hearthstone. The UI is about a thousand times better. The game is accessible. It's not as viable F2P as they'd have you believe but there are a lot of cheap decks you can compete with and people enjoy watching f2p ladder climbs (and you can actually learn from them and apply the stuff you learn. edit: I don't really like Hearthstone and I find it sort of dull to watch but its undeniably a better thing to watch than an MTG stream.
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Jul 7, 2015 22:31
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rabidsquid posted:You can see what is going on in Hearthstone. The UI is about a thousand times better. The game is accessible. It's not as viable F2P as they'd have you believe but there are a lot of cheap decks you can compete with and people enjoy watching f2p ladder climbs (and you can actually learn from them and apply the stuff you learn. I think on the flip side of that I'd much rather watch an LSV draft video than like an arena run by anyone.
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Jul 7, 2015 22:34
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Zoness posted:Because it's an easier game to understand and because blizzard is like, way better at marketing. But paper MtG is supposedly really really popular atm. Do the audiences somehow not align? Or do people not make the connection that a digital version exists/is streamable? (Talking from the viewers' perspective)
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Jul 7, 2015 22:34
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Rinkles posted:But paper MtG is supposedly really really popular atm. Do the audiences somehow not align? Or do people not make the connection that a digital version exists/is streamable? (Talking from the viewers' perspective) If modo was as pretty, easy to follow, and bug free as hearthstone is than people would play it and watch the streams by droves.
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Jul 7, 2015 22:37
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Rinkles posted:But paper MtG is supposedly really really popular atm. Do the audiences somehow not align? Or do people not make the connection that a digital version exists/is streamable? (Talking from the viewers' perspective) I play paper Magic and barely ever touch Hearthstone. I would watch Kripparian play Hearthstone for 5 hours straight over watching anyone play Magic. I honestly don't know why and don't care to find out any actual reason for this because Kripparian isn't exactly a particularly good streamer.
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Jul 7, 2015 22:40
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