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TopherCStone posted:Buying a Fire Phone would be worse than buying a Windows Phone 7 handset. Seriously. If you're going to ditch WP for Android, don't buy an awful forked Android failure of a phone. In fact, don't buy whatever phone first catches your eye regardless of what it is, ask the Android thread and listen to their advice. You can get a good Android phone, but if you pick one at random, you'll probably be getting an awful one. "I bought Amazon's flagship phone that sold up to literally tens of thousands of units, after they put it on firesale, and I'm shocked it is awful to use!! Android suuucks"
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Jul 8, 2015 16:04
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You guys should be happy with the news today. It's basically what you've been asking for.
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Jul 8, 2015 16:07
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I've been hearing that flagships are coming for a while and am basically in "I'll believe it when I see it" mode at this point, glad to hear that Satya is still focusing on it and those "tough decisions" he's been teasing didn't turn out to be "cancel all phones forever" though 
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Jul 8, 2015 16:10
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xylo posted:You guys should be happy with the news today. It's basically what you've been asking for. Yep, love me some layoffs!  But seriously, I'm glad they are continuing the platform, releasing less phones and will make flagship phones.
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Jul 8, 2015 16:19
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loquacius posted:I've been hearing that flagships are coming for a while and am basically in "I'll believe it when I see it" mode at this point, glad to hear that Satya is still focusing on it and those "tough decisions" he's been teasing didn't turn out to be "cancel all phones forever" though but also, i don't think Nadella actually understands half the words that come out of his mouth so
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Jul 8, 2015 16:22
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RVProfootballer posted:Seriously. If you're going to ditch WP for Android, don't buy an awful forked Android failure of a phone. In fact, don't buy whatever phone first catches your eye regardless of what it is, ask the Android thread and listen to their advice. You can get a good Android phone, but if you pick one at random, you'll probably be getting an awful one. "I bought Amazon's flagship phone that sold up to literally tens of thousands of units, after they put it on firesale, and I'm shocked it is awful to use!! Android suuucks" To be clear I'm not even a WP user anymore... nor a FirePhone user. I just thought it was funny it popped up on the same day. I have a 2013 Moto X.
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Jul 8, 2015 16:40
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Is the bootloader on the Fire phone cracked and if so, are there any stable Android roms for it? I'm still getting fantastic use out of my Cyanogen-modded Nook HD+ and I'd love to continue the trend of picking the corpse of vanity projects for expensive hardware.
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Jul 8, 2015 17:13
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Does anyone here use a Windows phone to accept credit cards? My Paypal swipe gizmo works fine on Android but doesn't work on my 925.
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Jul 8, 2015 17:53
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wormil posted:Does anyone here use a Windows phone to accept credit cards? My Paypal swipe gizmo works fine on Android but doesn't work on my 925. From their website: quote:PayPal Here is supported on many tablets and smartphones that run Windows 8.1. See the list below for some of the compatible devices.
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Jul 8, 2015 18:28
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So it works on a 520 but not on a 925. I'll try it on my 521.
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Jul 8, 2015 19:30
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xylo posted:You guys should be happy with the news today. It's basically what you've been asking for. Eh, as one of the few optimists in the thread my feelings are decidedly mixed, I certainly was not expecting the phone efforts to end either way, and was from that able to predict new flagships. So, good that things are mostly on track at least, looking forward to picking up a new WP phone come fall
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Jul 8, 2015 21:12
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Has anything changed from the 940 and 940XL plans? At this point I think spreading the Surface brand would be a mistake but with the phone business at essentially a clean slate I wonder what we'll get in time for the fall Windows 10 Mobile launch. I'm just glad the phones aren't totally gone because I'd been mentally preparing myself to switch to iOS + Microsoft apps/services for awhile.
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Jul 8, 2015 23:55
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Is there ANY way to turn off the search button? The hardware one? Can I loving break it or something? Somehow my wife keeps pressing it and holding it down without meaning to, and it keeps doing the lovely wanna-be Siri voice search, and it keeps installing apps or poo poo without her permission. She's not a complete idiot with it, but it is pissing her off enough that she is almost ready to get a new phone. It used to not be a problem, and now it is. She likes her Nokia 820 otherwise, as the camera is excellent and she hates iphones/androids, but yeah, this is becoming a deal breaker. I have Cortana turned off, but it seems like there is nothing to turn off the voice search otherwise. jeeves fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Jul 9, 2015 |
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Jul 9, 2015 00:15
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I thought that if you turned Cortana off, it reverted to the Bing thing on the search button?jeeves posted:it keeps installing apps or poo poo without her permission.
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Jul 9, 2015 00:33
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Mecca-Benghazi posted:I thought that if you turned Cortana off, it reverted to the Bing thing on the search button? I have Cortana off. It is the default voice search thing if you hold down the hardware search button. It has legit downloaded apps without her permission, such as "Beardify" somehow. It turns on from her purse all of the time, and most recently it stole focus from the camera app and almost made her miss grabbing a selfie with John Waters when she was at a show he was MC'ing last weekend. Needless to say the last one was the most important one and why I have heard her bitch so much about the annoyance of it lately. She has had almost universal praise for the phone since she just wanted a simple 'smart' phone with a good camera without dealing with iphones/androids, and it cost me 50$, but this is starting to annoy her.
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Jul 9, 2015 00:39
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xylo posted:You guys should be happy with the news today. It's basically what you've been asking for. A press release, just what I've always wanted.
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Jul 9, 2015 00:46
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jeeves posted:It has legit downloaded apps without her permission, such as "Beardify" somehow. It turns on from her purse all of the time, and most recently it stole focus from the camera app and almost made her miss grabbing a selfie with John Waters when she was at a show he was MC'ing last weekend.
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Jul 9, 2015 00:51
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Cortana/search pops up all the time on my phone. That button is way too sensitive. I've never had it install an app. I'm going to see if I can get it to happen. Edit, nope. wormil fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Jul 9, 2015 |
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Jul 9, 2015 02:09
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drat, then how the hell did that happen? And yeah, I tested the thing while locked-- it doesn't pop up when the button is pressed while locked. I am guessing that was an exaggeration by her. Otherwise the thing pops up way too often though. It's getting to the point where I am investigating how to put some epoxy or something over the button to no longer have it work because gently caress if anyone I know ever actually uses that search button, let alone her.
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Jul 9, 2015 04:32
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Put a cover on the phone. Makes it easier to hold without putting your fingers near the bottom.
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Jul 9, 2015 05:32
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I have my 920 locked and Cortana will still pop up on the lock screen if I hold the search button, but no way does it install apps with voice commands or brushing against conductive objects. Don't epoxy the button because I'm pretty sure there's no other way to access its functionality without enabling Cortana and its Live Tile. Also don't do it because you'd be ruining a good phone for a really silly reason.
Shumagorath fucked around with this message at 06:40 on Jul 9, 2015 |
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Jul 9, 2015 06:38
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xylo posted:You guys should be happy with the news today. It's basically what you've been asking for. Yeah after thinking about it today I think it's a good move for MS. As most WP developers know because of the limited resolution, processor, and memory options there were really was only a handful of platforms anyway (unlike crazy Android hardware fragmentation). The differences on the low end Lumias mostly seemed to be camera sensors capacitive buttons and various hardware components no one really cared about. I think a 700/800 dollar flagship phone ($200 on contract) + a large one, a $400 phone (free on contract) + large one and two phone around $60-$100 off contract with different compromises sounds like a good mix to me. I don't think anyone was too happy with a new low end device without distinction from others very month. I don't think the platform needed that many low end devices and limiting the hardware might help spurn development from developers who previously have avoided the platform. Condolences to Finland/MS phone group, I loved the old Candybar Nokia's.
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Jul 9, 2015 07:47
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Ars Technica has an opinion piece by Peter Bright in which Peter freaks out that Microsoft is ceding mobile entire to Google and Apple. I generally like the quality of writing on that site, but the guy doesn't really understand platform strategy. He's basically equating given up the middle market in phones to losing mobile, which isn't necessarily the case.
Finally, Peter is too US-centric. He assumes because he never sees Windows Phones in San Francisco (or Chicago, or wherever), their market share must suck. It's certainly nowhere as high as iOS or Apple, but it's very significant in large parts of Europe and South Asia. Those are not trivial markets. Peter Bright wrote posted:The Lumia 400, 500, and 600 ranges together have 10 main Windows Phone 8.1 models, even more if you include all the single/dual SIM and 3G/LTE variants. This ensures there's a phone for every wallet. The Lumia 430 in India, for example, is available at $69. The 435 Dual SIM at $74, the 530 Dual SIM at $85, the 532 Dual SIM at $89, the 638 LTE at $95, the 535 Dual SIM at $126, and the 640 Dual SIM at $142 (all prices taken from Micorsoft's listings). There's no way to reach a similarly wide range of price points with just two phones. "Focusing" on two models means giving up market reach.
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Jul 9, 2015 13:53
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So what is a "business phone"? The two people I know who are comp'ed by their job have an iPhone and a Galaxy S4 (and planning their refresh.) They're both popular consumer devices as well. At my workplace, I don't know anyone who is comp'ed, so we just buy whatever consumer-level phone that people buy anyway, though more Windows phones because [ob disclaimer I work for MS but not in phones.]
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Jul 9, 2015 15:57
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monster on a stick posted:So what is a "business phone"? The two people I know who are comp'ed by their job have an iPhone and a Galaxy S4 (and planning their refresh.) They're both popular consumer devices as well. I think it's a bit undefined at the moment. The iPhone largely did everything the Blackberry did for business users, or at least did so "well enough". That said, Microsoft's vision is compelling. A "business phone" could be "a phone that becomes a desktop as soon as you connect a monitor and keyboard". That could be pretty compelling. The security requirements of many businesses--or that many business should have--could be compelling as well. Blackberry's notoriously good security is what keeps the US DoD using it, after all.
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Jul 9, 2015 16:21
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Ynglaur posted:None of this is without risk, of course. If other manufacturers don't pickup the "middle market", the app platform may languish, which in turn reduces the need to use Microsoft services. It does, however, get Microsoft out of a high-risk, low-margin business. To some degree, who cares if you sell 50M mid-level phones at $300 a piece with a 5 percent margin. It may be better to sell 5M high-level phones at $800 a piece with a 20 percent margin. How much of that market share in Europe and South Asia (and wherever else WP has significant market share) is low end phones with next to no margin? Do you not think these two paragraphs are largely contradictory? I interpret "we want to sell fewer but higher end and higher margin phones" to mean "we don't care about the myriad low end markets that don't make us money but let us trumpet our market share in Uganda and Peru, so we're essentially going to abandon these" Which is fine, but then your objection that Peter is too U.S.-centric doesn't make a lot of sense.
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Jul 9, 2015 16:25
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Peter Bright wishes he was in the same league as Thurrott / Foley / Bott but while the three of them are writing about Microsoft 24/7 he's busy tweeting about DOTA 2.
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Jul 9, 2015 17:11
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Ynglaur posted:[*] Microsoft's strategy is not intended to flood the world with Windows Phones, but to have a large market share of profitable Windows Phones. If you're making a phone for every budget, your margins are going to suck. If you focus on business users and flagships, then you can play in the hardware space and still have decent margins. Leave the high-volume, low-margin work to other companies. I would actually disagree with this, but it really all depends on what MS actually wants. Do they want Lumia to be the line that shows "this is what is possible" like Surface and/or "cost be damned" like the Nexus? As the platform owner, maybe they *should* be shooting for a Nexus-like line where margins are not important, especially when it doesn't seem like 3rd party OEMs are interested in the platform. I think their new 'focus' and layoffs does mean they've finally decided making Lumia a loss-leader is untenable, plus there's the rumor that Satya never wanted the business to begin with. quote:Finally, Peter is too US-centric. He assumes because he never sees Windows Phones in San Francisco (or Chicago, or wherever), their market share must suck. It's certainly nowhere as high as iOS or Apple, but it's very significant in large parts of Europe and South Asia. Those are not trivial markets. He's actually based in the UK, and I think he acknowledges the Asia/EU bright spot for WP doesn't he?
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Jul 9, 2015 17:20
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"Business phone" was a 2000's concept, a marketing point for Blackberries and to a lesser extent, executive phones. I can't see that it has any relevance today.
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Jul 9, 2015 18:03
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wormil posted:"Business phone" was a 2000's concept, a marketing point for Blackberries and to a lesser extent, executive phones. I can't see that it has any relevance today. Because large corporations would like to control your phone and keep the data on it secure remotely? Especially if they are paying for it. I don't see how that ISN'T relevant? 
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Jul 9, 2015 18:05
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The only way to enable FDE in Windows Phone 8.1 is still by joining a domain that mandates BitLocker. Thankfully 10 is going to let normal consumers enable it too.
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Jul 9, 2015 18:09
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ratbert90 posted:Because large corporations would like to control your phone and keep the data on it secure remotely? Especially if they are paying for it. I don't see how that ISN'T relevant? That isn't really a distinct phone tier, is it? Even my retired 521 supported it, as far as I know inexpensive Android phones support it too.
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Jul 9, 2015 18:16
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MrBond posted:plus there's the rumor that Satya never wanted the business to begin with. It's not really a rumor, lots of higher-ups at MS didn't like the idea of the Nokia acquisition. Nadella later changed his mind about it, but it's not clear whether that was because he saw value in it (as others have said, if MS didn't buy Nokia, there would have been no Windows Phone manufacturers left) or just politicking.
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Jul 9, 2015 19:02
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RVProfootballer posted:How much of that market share in Europe and South Asia (and wherever else WP has significant market share) is low end phones with next to no margin? Do you not think these two paragraphs are largely contradictory? I interpret "we want to sell fewer but higher end and higher margin phones" to mean "we don't care about the myriad low end markets that don't make us money but let us trumpet our market share in Uganda and Peru, so we're essentially going to abandon these" Which is fine, but then your objection that Peter is too U.S.-centric doesn't make a lot of sense. Currently quite a bit, but that's the nature of growth markets. The middle classes there should continue to grow for another 10-20 years, with commensurate increases in absolute buying power. If Microsoft can secure significant market share in those markets, those markets could be a significant source of profitable, high-end hardware in the future. MrBond posted:I would actually disagree with this, but it really all depends on what MS actually wants. Do they want Lumia to be the line that shows "this is what is possible" like Surface and/or "cost be damned" like the Nexus? As the platform owner, maybe they *should* be shooting for a Nexus-like line where margins are not important, especially when it doesn't seem like 3rd party OEMs are interested in the platform. Peter acknowledge the fact, but didn't address the implications of that fact. He just dropped it in, but the fact was ignored in his analysis. I think your question above--is Microsoft hardware only for showing "what is possible"?--is a good one.
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Jul 9, 2015 19:44
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wormil posted:"Business phone" was a 2000's concept, a marketing point for Blackberries and to a lesser extent, executive phones. I can't see that it has any relevance today. It's probably going to be a device that works well with Continuum. I'm not sure what that'd be a different category than Flagship though.
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Jul 9, 2015 21:04
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Factor Mystic posted:It's probably going to be a device that works well with Continuum. I'm not sure what that'd be a different category than Flagship though. Perhaps something like "Windows Ultimate" versus "Windows Enterprise"? I suppose camera quality is less important in most enterprise applications (though apps like Lens are amazingly useful).
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Jul 9, 2015 22:38
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Lens is one of those apps I pull out about once a month but it's really handy that once a month. Do you guys think Cityman and Talkman are basically going to be our new flagship phones? How would a 'business' phone look in comparison?
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Jul 10, 2015 02:23
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So Microsoft released an app deployment tool for Windows 10 on phones. I could not get it to find my actual device, so I'm not sure if my build actually works with it, or if it's just the emulator, or what  .But if and when I do, I can set up a job to compile nightly builds of the Awful App so anyone can get the newest version and put it on their device. No Visual Studio required.
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Jul 10, 2015 03:48
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Been going on hikes, nothing major, but the trails in this park are poorly marked or unmarked. I'm hoping to find an app that let me map these trails as some loop around and some apparently head off to the North Pole. I found and installed a couple apps that look promising but if anyone has a personal recommendation that might save days of app testing that would be great.
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Jul 10, 2015 04:56
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I'm on the fence about whether or not to get a new Windows Phone. I still enjoy my 920, it's in surprisingly great shape going on nearly 3 years now. I've been holding out for the 940, but I feel Microsoft might just be doing lip service to get money out of their already developed phones before it become a dead platform, such as Surface RT. Really unfortunate given that Nokia was doing better and better each quarter with their Windows Phone sales, while also producing very important apps. MS seems to have blown $8 billion to destroy their one avenue to success in mobile.
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Jul 10, 2015 06:23
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