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I don't think that translated to text as well as I was hoping it would
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Jul 9, 2015 23:35
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I started from the beginning of Gintama many years ago when I watched it, and while it can be uneven it still holds a special place in my heart, since I binged through it while recovering from surgery.
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Jul 9, 2015 23:36
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Smoking Crow posted:Is that because the Dutch think the Indonesian trade was more important? there is a lot on that from the time on indonesia, but a severe lack of (good, non-fluffy) modern works imo. most of our other colonial stuff gets really neglected as well. even more modern dutch-indonesian and other former-colonial relations don't have much out there, a friend of mine was writing his thesis on the contribution of our south-american 'colonies' during world war 2 and he found like 1 other guy who had ever written anything approaching that. to be honest, in the case of japan-dutch relations i just think it's been largely forgotten by history, it wasn't that big a deal for us in comparison to other efforts at the time anyway. fwiw it never appeared in any of the school texts i remember reading there's some cool texts from the era though. i read one by christiaan snouck hurgronje who spends the entirety of his diary complaining about how poo poo the local authorities are at dealing with the muslim population in indonesia in ways familiar to anyone keeping up with the news. and of course a lot of indos brought their experiences and history here, although their local traditions are mostly dying out and have been absorbed into the general dutch culture. there is also the problem that the indonesian archivists loathe dutch historians and routinely refuse access to any of the archives left behind when we packed up, making it somewhat hard to write anything in depth
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Jul 9, 2015 23:36
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Davincie posted:there is a lot on that from the time on indonesia, but a severe lack of (good, non-fluffy) modern works imo. most of our other colonial stuff gets really neglected as well. even more modern dutch-indonesian and other former-colonial relations don't have much out there, a friend of mine was writing his thesis on the contribution of our south-american 'colonies' during world war 2 and he found like 1 other guy who had ever written anything approaching that. to be honest, in the case of japan-dutch relations i just think it's been largely forgotten by history, it wasn't that big a deal for us in comparison to other efforts at the time anyway. fwiw it never appeared in any of the school texts i remember reading That's weird. In my history books, we heard about the Dutch/Japan trade in the context of "all of these Europeans were scrambling to trade with Asian countries," so it was there with the British in India and the carving up of China. We got nothing about the Dutch in Indonesia though lol
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Jul 9, 2015 23:42
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Is Mikakunin de Shinkoukei actually a good show to watch or is it only good in gif form
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Jul 9, 2015 23:44
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Sounds like the Dutch were more important to Japan than the other way around.
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Jul 9, 2015 23:46
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I like how the US release changed the name from one Japanese name to another.
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Jul 9, 2015 23:46
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Smoking Crow posted:Is Mikakunin de Shinkoukei actually a good show to watch or is it only good in gif form It was okay, I didn't bother watching the whole thing though.
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Jul 9, 2015 23:46
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Smoking Crow posted:That's weird. In my history books, we heard about the Dutch/Japan trade in the context of "all of these Europeans were scrambling to trade with Asian countries," so it was there with the British in India and the carving up of China. We got nothing about the Dutch in Indonesia though lol everything colonial kinda gets thrown under the VOC/WIC bus of something to be proud of because of entrepreneurship, golden age, we had art!!! and then they mostly ignore the bad stuff except for a melodramatic its so sad story for general education. all the school kids gotta memorize every single spice they ever brought to europe though and how we totally owned the spanish T.G. Xarbala posted:Sounds like the Dutch were more important to Japan than the other way around. yup. we had way more colonies and trade to care about and it helps that those have a significant population still living here.
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Jul 9, 2015 23:50
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I did a lot of research on the cultural exchange between Victorian England and (Pre-)Meiji Japan and was tickled to learn that apparently a lot of Dutch texts lent to the Rangaku deliberately downplayed England's role in the Western sphere because more than a few Dutch merchants considered England their biggest competitor and didn't want Japan getting interested. "So who are these English guys." "Nobodies from nowhere who do nothing and have nothing. They're dumb. Forget about them." T.G. Xarbala posted:Sounds like the Dutch were more important to Japan than the other way around.
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Jul 9, 2015 23:50
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Though I guess I shouldn't use the term Sakoku since they didn't. That was invented later.
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Jul 9, 2015 23:52
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well, they weren't wrong about the english
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Jul 9, 2015 23:53
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Bad Seafood posted:"So who are these English guys." They were right
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Jul 9, 2015 23:53
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I am going to make time to watch Gintama
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Jul 9, 2015 23:54
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Bad Seafood posted:I did a lot of research on the cultural exchange between Victorian England and (Pre-)Meiji Japan and was tickled to learn that apparently a lot of Dutch texts lent to the Rangaku deliberately downplayed England's role in the Western sphere because more than a few Dutch merchants considered England their biggest competitor and didn't want Japan getting interested. In the Edo period, there was a field of studies called Rangaku. It literally means Dutch Studies. There were people who did nothing but learn about the Dutch all day because that's where all the new scientific, medical and agricultural knowledge. This changed after Perry opened up Japan. There were samurai getting sent all over the world (mainly the US) to learn about everything Western.
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Jul 9, 2015 23:56
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FUN FACT: Fukoku kyohei, one of the many mottos of the Meiji Revolution/Restoration which roughly translates as "Prosperous nation, strong military," was first used by some samurai touring England to describe how they felt when first pulling into to the London shipyards.
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Jul 9, 2015 23:57
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Smoking Crow posted:In the Edo period, there was a field of studies called Rangaku. It literally means Dutch Studies. There were people who did nothing but learn about the Dutch all day because that's where all the new scientific, medical and agricultural knowledge. This changed after Perry opened up Japan. There were samurai getting sent all over the world (mainly the US) to learn about everything Western. There's actually kind of moving a passage from one of their diaries written from a ship moored in Hong Kong (or Shanghai, I forget which city specifically) overnight. The British had strung the whole town with gas lamps, creating what one dude described as "A city illuminated by fireflies."
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Jul 10, 2015 00:02
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In my history textbooks we were told "The Dutch weren't as bad as the British and Spanish, and holy poo poo they made a lot of money"
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Jul 10, 2015 00:02
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I recently started reading If on a winter's night a traveler in Italian. I meant to pick up one of his short story collections but I was in a hurry at the train station so I have this complicated postmodern thing instead.I don't know Italian but I spent some time over there recently and I have a lovely dictionary app on my phone. So far I've read a page and a bit but it's a lot of fun. It reminds me of trying to read Finnegans Wake but easier. I'm also gonna try reviving the corpse of the French knowledge from my first year of high school so I can pick up hard copies of Ultra Heaven. (also all that sexy french lit)
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Jul 10, 2015 00:03
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Smoking Crow posted:In my history textbooks we were told "The Dutch weren't as bad as the British and Spanish, and holy poo poo they made a lot of money"
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Jul 10, 2015 00:03
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we were bad, badass also just bad really. whenever other countries came to observe how we struck down colonial revolts they made sure to note we were brutal in comparison to them
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Jul 10, 2015 00:04
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Davincie posted:we were bad, badass at least you're not as bad as the Belgians
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Jul 10, 2015 00:05
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not that that was particularly hard
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Jul 10, 2015 00:06
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i doubt theres english translations, but many of those involved in the indonesian war sof independence wrote memorials that are a fun read. make the french and americans in vietnam seem like nice guys
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Jul 10, 2015 00:09
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Ibram Gaunt posted:I am going to make time to watch Gintama Good
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Jul 10, 2015 00:13
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i didn't know there were ever any actual samurai in america, and why aren't there more stories about that? that sounds cool.
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Jul 10, 2015 00:14
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Probably just thought they were wealthy foreigners looking to invest or something. I can't imagine post-Meiji samurai would be distinguishable from the upper class of the west besides ethnically.
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Jul 10, 2015 00:21
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"Hmmm, I made a shitload of cash exploiting all those brown people. I should probably handle these dividends wisely." *commissions a solid gold replica of his own butt* -some dutch guy
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Jul 10, 2015 00:21
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T.G. Xarbala posted:Sounds like the Dutch were more important to Japan than the other way around. Japan gave us Neon Genesis Evangelion so this is the opposite of true
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Jul 10, 2015 00:23
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And now for something completely different: Mushishi season 1.
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Jul 10, 2015 00:27
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is really good animay, and so is season 2.
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Jul 10, 2015 00:33
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T.G. Xarbala posted:Probably just thought they were wealthy foreigners looking to invest or something. I can't imagine post-Meiji samurai would be distinguishable from the upper class of the west besides ethnically. No, they were very conspicuous. They got ticker tape parades in New York City and Washington, DC.
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Jul 10, 2015 00:33
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Jostiband posted:is really good animay, and so is season 2. I still haven't watched season 2 because I can't get over the fact that Travis Willingham isn't Ginko anymore. 
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Jul 10, 2015 00:35
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Jostiband posted:is really good animay, and so is season 2. I've already watched season 2, just never got around to the first one until now.
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Jul 10, 2015 00:42
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T.G. Xarbala posted:Probably just thought they were wealthy foreigners looking to invest or something. I can't imagine post-Meiji samurai would be distinguishable from the upper class of the west besides ethnically. oh yeah i guess i was thinking of like sengoku period dudes.
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Jul 10, 2015 00:44
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Smoking Crow posted:No, they were very conspicuous. They got ticker tape parades in New York City and Washington, DC. Guess I was mistaken, that's pretty neat.
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Jul 10, 2015 00:46
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Paper Triangle posted:i didn't know there were ever any actual samurai in america, and why aren't there more stories about that? that sounds cool.
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Jul 10, 2015 00:48
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Paper Triangle posted:oh yeah i guess i was thinking of like sengoku period dudes. just a bit later but https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasekura_Tsunenaga
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Jul 10, 2015 00:50
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Looks like Ga-tcha-MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN Crowds is up next on my To Watch list.
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Jul 10, 2015 01:21
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I finally got around to finishing Shirobako and yeah it's really great. Best ep was easily the second to last. Would gladly watch another season even if it were just retreading the same ground. Maybe a season with a greater focus on Zuka's side of things?
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Jul 10, 2015 01:27
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