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Cultural Imperial posted:Y'all tripping balls. China had more money than good right now and they will pull through this. Why have you turned bullish all of a sudden? I thought you wanted it all to burn to the ground.
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# ? Jul 10, 2015 07:40 |
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# ? May 15, 2024 07:29 |
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Arglebargle III posted:People mentioned a bailout for select investors. If state-owned-enterprises and investors backed by state-owned-enterprises, who have nearly unlimited lines of credit with the Bank of China, bought shares at face value while most other trades were suspended... what would you call that? [...] Of course, as you say, the real interesting thing right now is, who is selling the stocks those people are forced to buy.
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# ? Jul 10, 2015 07:57 |
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How transparent are the markets in China, could the government just straight up give out fake numbers if it wanted?
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# ? Jul 10, 2015 08:06 |
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Fall Sick and Die posted:I wonder if they've considered putting up some kind of banner, maybe white letters on red? I'm just throwing out ideas. Letting stock market index fall is counter-revolutionary and those who do so should submit themselves to self criticism struggle sessions
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# ? Jul 10, 2015 08:08 |
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meristem posted:Exactly my point - I don't understand the derision in this thread. It's just a bailout at the expense of some people. Additionally, if company directors and upper management are forced to invest in the stocks *and* forbid to sell in the short-term, shouldn't this, in theory, encourage the promotion of a long-term perspective? A market whose activity is literally dictated by the government isn't a market at all. It's a potemkin market that's completely disconnected from economic reality and whose sole purpose is propaganda.
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# ? Jul 10, 2015 08:28 |
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lol
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# ? Jul 10, 2015 09:21 |
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Fojar38 posted:A market whose activity is literally dictated by the government isn't a market at all. It's a potemkin market that's completely disconnected from economic reality and whose sole purpose is propaganda. That's not really for this thread, however, so I'm dropping the issue.
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# ? Jul 10, 2015 10:19 |
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Fojar38 posted:A market whose activity is literally dictated by the government isn't a market at all. It's a potemkin market that's completely disconnected from economic reality and whose sole purpose is propaganda. But money is still changing hands. You can go on about it being disconnected from economic fundamentals but money is being traded for stocks. Who is getting the money and unloading stock?
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# ? Jul 10, 2015 12:13 |
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Arglebargle III posted:But money is still changing hands. You can go on about it being disconnected from economic fundamentals but money is being traded for stocks. Who is getting the money and unloading stock? I would think bank of China is supplying the money to certain entities to purchase shares to create a price floor at the expense of say increased lending or increasing the money supply. Whether that then creates an even bigger debt bubble or forces a devaluation of the currency which could in turn increase inflation, who knows. A more amusing thought is the BoC directly buying stocks itself which in theory could expand the money supply devaluing the currency and riding the storm as a holder and maintaining a price floor. Then if/when stability returns the bank can unwind its holding through either direct sales or debt for stock swaps.
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# ? Jul 10, 2015 13:53 |
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rex rabidorum vires posted:I would think bank of China is supplying the money to certain entities to purchase shares to create a price floor at the expense of say increased lending or increasing the money supply. Whether that then creates an even bigger debt bubble or forces a devaluation of the currency which could in turn increase inflation, who knows. A more amusing thought is the BoC directly buying stocks itself which in theory could expand the money supply devaluing the currency and riding the storm as a holder and maintaining a price floor. Then if/when stability returns the bank can unwind its holding through either direct sales or debt for stock swaps. That's what the fed did and is still doing with mortgage backed securities and a whole bunch of other securities.
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# ? Jul 10, 2015 14:52 |
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Vladimir Putin posted:That's what the fed did and is still doing with mortgage backed securities and a whole bunch of other securities. The biggest problem with China's stock market isn't that its manipulated by the government, the US's stock market is horribly manipulated by the Fed. It's that the China market is composed of retail investors that mostly treat the market as a roulette wheel because the property roulette wheel flew off its spoke. At least in the US the flood of money created by the Fed is manged by at least somewhat rational actors like giant banks and funds. Basically to create a civil investing class the CPC screamed BUY BUY BUY STOCK TO THE MOON, then, SELL SELL SELL STOCK VERY BAD, then, ARGH CONFLATING VARIABLES *hurls kitchen sink*
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# ? Jul 10, 2015 15:00 |
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Vladimir Putin posted:That's what the fed did and is still doing with mortgage backed securities and a whole bunch of other securities. I was writing a big post but decided meh and the tl:dr I came up with is that yes the US fed is doing that however the precedence of setting a price floor in regards to the entire market is hilarious. It could create a huge feedback loop of BoC investment through expansionary monetary to create an infinite rise of the market but if the market is never allowed to fall then there is no reason to sell...ever, unless you don't think there will be another bailout in which case sell everything the moment there is a drop because everyone else probably is thinking the same thing. So congratulations on creating a crazy panic based market that will have to be forever subsidised to achieve what they want.
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# ? Jul 10, 2015 15:22 |
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Jumpingmanjim posted:Why have you turned bullish all of a sudden? I thought you wanted it all to burn to the ground. Dude, the proof is in front of you. China managed to halt the slide, to my chagrin.
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# ? Jul 10, 2015 15:45 |
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Cultural Imperial posted:Dude, the proof is in front of you. China managed to halt the slide, to my chagrin. Isn't this just going to be a giant money pit forever, then? They refuse to let prices slide, so they're going to just subsidize the poo poo out of the market forever. gently caress, maybe that's why Goldman-Sachs says BUY BUY BUY. That's the kind of no-lose situation they love.
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# ? Jul 10, 2015 15:47 |
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TheBalor posted:Isn't this just going to be a giant money pit forever, then? They refuse to let prices slide, so they're going to just subsidize the poo poo out of the market forever. I feel the same way about condos in Vancouver. The government will never let prices go down under any conditions, so why the hell wouldn't you buy? It's not a real bubble until the last bear has turned bullish.
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# ? Jul 10, 2015 16:09 |
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TheBalor posted:Isn't this just going to be a giant money pit forever, then? They refuse to let prices slide, so they're going to just subsidize the poo poo out of the market forever. I think that's what everyone is basically saying. China has so much loving money they can artificially raise stock prices for a long time. The politburo is scared as hell of social unrest and will do anything to avoid it, including forcing tsinghua grads to chant slogans about buying A shares at convocation. http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2015/07/10/2134143/this-is-nuts-revive-the-a-shares-benefit-the-people/ http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/a24c6f0e-264f-11e5-bd83-71cb60e8f08c.html#axzz3fNi7kyrN quote:On Sunday, the new graduates of Tsinghua University are set to gather in their smartest attire to celebrate degrees from one of China’s most prestigious institutions, a place that has fostered generations of political leaders. Just after the ceremony starts — according to a written agenda — the graduates must “follow the instruction and shout loudly the slogan, ‘revive the A shares, benefit the people; revive the A shares, benefit the people’.” tbh I prefer this over 'lean in'. namaste friends fucked around with this message at 16:15 on Jul 10, 2015 |
# ? Jul 10, 2015 16:11 |
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The market is red, the A shares rise China now has Xi Jinping He commands the market to ever increase U er hai yo He's a pretty amazing guy
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# ? Jul 10, 2015 16:54 |
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So how do I get myself some of that risk free chinese money?
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# ? Jul 10, 2015 17:04 |
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I think getting graduates to chant things about the stock market is the beginning of the end.
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# ? Jul 10, 2015 17:13 |
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So how to they keep valuation from blowing up too much? Surely, if people catch wind en masse, they'll try to get in on it, but that could blow up to the point where even the CCP can't comfortably absorb the hit.
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# ? Jul 10, 2015 17:35 |
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Hungriest Hippo posted:The biggest problem with China's stock market isn't that its manipulated by the government, the US's stock market is horribly manipulated by the Fed. While it's true that global stock markets are heavily influenced by what the fed does or does not do, I don't think that the US government has ever outright banned people from selling stocks and criminally prosecuted short sellers in order to maintain the illusion of a bull market?
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# ? Jul 10, 2015 17:48 |
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TheBalor posted:So how to they keep valuation from blowing up too much? Surely, if people catch wind en masse, they'll try to get in on it, but that could blow up to the point where even the CCP can't comfortably absorb the hit. The majority of the stocks on the market are unavailable for sale so that probably helps.
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# ? Jul 10, 2015 18:01 |
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I did some research and apparently the US government has banned short selling before, once in the 1930's and again in September of 2008 so...haha?
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# ? Jul 10, 2015 18:08 |
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TheBalor posted:So how to they keep valuation from blowing up too much? Surely, if people catch wind en masse, they'll try to get in on it, but that could blow up to the point where even the CCP can't comfortably absorb the hit. It would be funny, for example, if (pure assfic here) the institutions bought out Banana Cart Men and, in general, the locals, and left the foreigners (with the GS-advocated buys) when trading returned to normal. No societal unrest, right?
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# ? Jul 10, 2015 19:01 |
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meristem posted:I think the key to that is Arglebargle III's question: who sold the stock that the institutions were forced to buy. The icelandic model.
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# ? Jul 10, 2015 19:15 |
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The comment sections in articles about China are even more retarded than usual over the past couple days.
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# ? Jul 10, 2015 19:38 |
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Fojar38 posted:The comment sections in articles about China are even more retarded than usual over the past couple days.
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# ? Jul 11, 2015 12:21 |
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http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/f3d9...ed%2F%2Fproductquote:Myth of China’s retail investors understates large players’ role quote:
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# ? Jul 13, 2015 04:18 |
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http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/274def90-2905-11e5-8db8-c033edba8a6e.html?ftcamp=published_links%2Frss%2Fmarkets%2Ffeed%2F%2Fproductquote:China stocks extend winning streak to three Welp, wrap it up chinabustailures
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# ? Jul 13, 2015 04:24 |
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The market that is no longer a market is going up. The numbers are going up! Praise the CCP!
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# ? Jul 13, 2015 04:33 |
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# ? Jul 13, 2015 04:56 |
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Looks healthy to me.
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# ? Jul 13, 2015 04:57 |
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Whens the ride gonna add a loop?
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# ? Jul 13, 2015 05:05 |
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So is there a name for this? On the one hand it resembles a pump-and-dump, but with the entire economy instead of a particular security. On the other, you also have this idea of mandating the market can only go up regardless of fiscal soundness and then using the basically conjured funds to pay off real debt. In both regards it's a con-job in the truest sense of the phrase, but it seems unique in being a two-stage con and is playing out on a ridiculous scale.
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# ? Jul 13, 2015 05:15 |
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"strong fundamentals" "dead-cat bounce" Take your pick.
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# ? Jul 13, 2015 05:16 |
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Dux Supremus posted:So is there a name for this? On the one hand it resembles a pump-and-dump, but with the entire economy instead of a particular security. On the other, you also have this idea of mandating the market can only go up regardless of fiscal soundness and then using the basically conjured funds to pay off real debt. In both regards it's a con-job in the truest sense of the phrase, but it seems unique in being a two-stage con and is playing out on a ridiculous scale. It's a combination of pump-and-dump, capital controls, and massive government subsidies to stave off popular unrest and save face icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 05:55 on Jul 13, 2015 |
# ? Jul 13, 2015 05:49 |
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# ? Jul 13, 2015 06:29 |
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Well I guess that's one way to promote a positive atmosphere, just ban all the negative news. Not like those tuhao traders are going to search anything else out.
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# ? Jul 13, 2015 06:36 |
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I for one hope the Chinese have found the solution for creating infinite prosperity out of thin air.
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# ? Jul 13, 2015 06:48 |
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# ? May 15, 2024 07:29 |
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Dux Supremus posted:So is there a name for this? On the one hand it resembles a pump-and-dump, but with the entire economy instead of a particular security. On the other, you also have this idea of mandating the market can only go up regardless of fiscal soundness and then using the basically conjured funds to pay off real debt. In both regards it's a con-job in the truest sense of the phrase, but it seems unique in being a two-stage con and is playing out on a ridiculous scale. "October 25th"
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# ? Jul 13, 2015 07:17 |