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Tesseraction posted:Did... did two sentence collapse into each other up there? It feels like "So at best it proves nothing, or it says what you think it does" and "certainly- if nothing else- does put to lie any assertion #GG is responsible for anything approaching the majority of harassment on twitter" seem to be completely different bits? As for the latter half of the sentence, you're coming to a favourable conclusion 'GG isn't responsible for the majority of the harassment on Twitter' but aren't taking important factors into account: The implication is less meaningful than what you yourself imply to be a nearly-meaningless study as a whole. That they thought Gamergate was the only thing worth correlating with harassment implies, if anything, a bias against it to start with. A bias that, even unaccounted for, the study does a poor job of justifying. If the blockbot is meant to purge harassers, then you would expect the majority of people on the list would have been harassers. That's... not what the nearly-meaningless study said, is it?
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Jul 10, 2015 14:56
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The Snark posted:The implication is less meaningful than what you yourself imply to be a nearly-meaningless study as a whole. That they thought Gamergate was the only thing worth correlating with harassment implies, if anything, a bias against it to start with. A bias that, even unaccounted for, the study does a poor job of justifying. The study looked at people reported for harassment, and found that 12% of the harassers reported were on the autoblock list. They did not determine how many people on the autoblock list were harassers, because that WASN'T THE loving POINT OF THE loving STUDY.
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Jul 10, 2015 14:59
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I have mis-remembered something, and have been wrong. For some reason I thought the WAM report addressed the efficacy of the blockbot, I can't seem to find that. My apologies, but not to you Effectronica, you're a twit.
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Jul 10, 2015 15:04
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The Snark posted:I have mis-remembered something, and have been wrong. For some reason I thought the WAM report addressed the efficacy of the blockbot, I can't seem to find that. Well, you know, you're not doing a very good job at pretending to be objective here. Maybe you could stop, and be authentic, if you know how.
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Jul 10, 2015 15:08
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I can't wait to get home from work, put on Smokey and the Bandit Part 3, blaze up that bogus gas station weed, and draft my multi paragraph post with quotes and citations about the possibility that Zoe Quinn finished those journalist guys off with a bukaki type scenario where they shot loads on her face and glasses and cummed their jizz all on her neck and tits. Is there a good Zizek quote that I can work into this post
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Jul 10, 2015 15:12
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The Snark posted:The implication is less meaningful than what you yourself imply to be a nearly-meaningless study as a whole. That they thought Gamergate was the only thing worth correlating with harassment implies, if anything, a bias against it to start with. A bias that, even unaccounted for, the study does a poor job of justifying. Wait, are you suggesting that 'because only 12% of cases were GG-related, GG is not justifiably associated with harassment'? The Snark posted:If the blockbot is meant to purge harassers, then you would expect the majority of people on the list would have been harassers. That's... not what the nearly-meaningless study said, is it? Is your argument that 'the majority of the list haven't been reported as harassers, therefore they aren't harassers'? I could understand maybe arguing the reverse, i.e. 'the majority of harassers were not on the GG list, suggesting few harassers are GG' - but that is also a poor induction. Both arguments can reasonably be countered with: 'perhaps the majority of the list were not reported for harassment, because they had already been blocked' - you know, like with Sixth Sense but with annoying douchebags instead of a ghost. I mean, as I said, there was a window between Nov 6 and Nov 10 where the ggautoblocker was not released. We have no statistics to suggest that all 12% of GG-related incidents didn't happen in those 4 days*! *I do not seriously believe that, go figure
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Jul 10, 2015 15:18
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a bay posted:I can't wait to get home from work, put on Smokey and the Bandit Part 3, blaze up that bogus gas station weed, and draft my multi paragraph post with quotes and citations about the possibility that Zoe Quinn finished those journalist guys off with a bukaki type scenario where they shot loads on her face and glasses and cummed their jizz all on her neck and tits. Is there a good Zizek quote that I can work into this post "Bitches ain't poo poo but hoes and tricks", Slavoj Zizek, "Living in the End Times"
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Jul 10, 2015 15:19
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Welcome to the Desert of the Real Gamers
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Jul 10, 2015 15:20
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Obdicut posted:I'd guess probably the person who called in the bomb threat. Just an idea. Ok, cool. So when someone on the pro-GG side threatened to shoot up the convention Anita was supposed to speak at, nobody but the caller has to own up to that either?
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Jul 10, 2015 15:23
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The Snark posted:What is the thread's opinion on this report? It's a good thing that no one claimed that every harasser on twitter is with gamergate. There are a lot of people on twitter, you know, and they are mad about a wide array of things that are not video games.
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Jul 10, 2015 15:23
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Freakazoid_ posted:Ok, cool. So when someone on the pro-GG side threatened to shoot up the convention Anita was supposed to speak at, nobody but the caller has to own up to that either? Hey I'm not related to this bomb-threat person in any way but I'll happily denounce them as an rear end in a top hat and a terrorist. Call me visionary or something.
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Jul 10, 2015 15:29
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The problem with gamergate (on both sides) is that people have confused loudness with importance. None of this actually important by any meaningful definition of the word
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Jul 10, 2015 15:36
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I don't think you understand, if we get the SJWs out of video games then North Korea will become a democracy!!
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Jul 10, 2015 15:40
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Tesseraction posted:Hey I'm not related to this bomb-threat person in any way but I'll happily denounce them as an rear end in a top hat and a terrorist. Call me visionary or something. Good! You're a sensible and responsible human being. Sadly, you're in a minority. I can hardly find anyone on either side who are willing to denounce their respective terror threats. That includes the current pseudo-leaders for both sides.
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Jul 10, 2015 15:47
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Scrub-Niggurath posted:The problem with gamergate (on both sides) is that people have confused loudness with importance. None of this actually important by any meaningful definition of the word Zoe Quinn seems pretty important to me for making such a good game and rock loving hard cock that is going to need some attention soon, that's important
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Jul 10, 2015 15:54
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GG is also pro-Putin, so yeah ISIS or whatever, any association for them is fine.
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Jul 10, 2015 16:06
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Freakazoid_ posted:Good! You're a sensible and responsible human being. I don't think anyone here has genuinely defended harassment of gamergaters. aGG isn't really a 'side'
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Jul 10, 2015 16:07
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I give Gamergate a 9.7 out of 10 for being such a dirty little bitch, really just a nasty little loving slut, who likes that, and wants me to pull her hair, harder, and I'm getting so close she better be ready to turn around and be featured in my journalism
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Jul 10, 2015 16:09
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Nevvy Z posted:I don't think anyone here has genuinely defended harassment of gamergaters. aGG isn't really a 'side' Yep. Whenever I look at most of the people that are held up as aGG leaders or whatever I go "nope" because they've got issues all their own. But I was on Twitter when Gamergate kicked off and it was nasty, and the nastiness has never died down.
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Jul 10, 2015 16:09
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Former games journalist here, though from a periphery country that mostly received material from the big companies in the biz and produced relatively little locally. I find GamerGate so misguided as to be bizarre. Like the MRA 'movement' they seem to overlap with substantially, they actions seem custom-made to undermine the goals they claim to want to achieve. "The rape of males in prisons and high incarceration rate is a tragedy! We better get crackin' on whining about Mad Max: Fury Road being feminist and western women being simultaneously insatiable sluts/stuck-up bitches who won't bang me!" I particularly like the "Anti-GG sentiment is pushing people into the arms of Breitbart and the right-wing!" gambit. Yeah, it's -your- fault I'm hoisting the star and bars, logging onto Stormfront and following Caiden Cowger on Twitter! It's no one else's responsibility to keep you from going full moron. Is there any way to even hold someone intent on gravitating toward those trash heaps without turning into a friendlier-sounding version of such places? Not likely. If all it takes is a malicious hack to appeal to your 'gamer' identity for you to embrace your inner Mark Fuhrman, you were never at risk of staying a decent person for that long. In my time in the industry, which was mostly focused on print material, the main problems were the imposition of canned content (As in "You can publish this review/guide made by our media department, or wait for a review copy of the game. Said review might be delayed and mess with your publishing deadline, or we can just hold it because we discovered you published unflattering stuff about one of our products"), the need to broaden scope and content to unreal levels in order to attract advertisement and company support making a small team very much overworked and killing any hopes of specialization or focus that might lead to better quality. That and abysmal pay, but that's sort of a common thing in media. The average GG trooper will bitch about Electronic arts, but will need a Google search to tell you the name of its CEO. He'll be able to tell you Zoe Quinn's measurements and a brief but detail-rich sexual history on demand, though, before reaching for the squirt bottle of lube.
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Jul 10, 2015 16:10
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ThreeFingerHoek posted:
Oh, that's easy, ti's also about sexism and racism in computer games and the computer game industry. Freakazoid_ posted:Good! You're a sensible and responsible human being. Normal, reasonable people don't feel like they have to denounce terror threats made by people they have no connection to. Why would the fact ahat I think GGers have no point and are creepy mean that I need to denounce a bomb threat against them? I pre-denounce all bomb threats.
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Jul 10, 2015 16:11
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Serf posted:Yep. Whenever I look at most of the people that are held up as aGG leaders or whatever I go "nope" because they've got issues all their own. But I was on Twitter when Gamergate kicked off and it was nasty, and the nastiness has never died down. "Why haven't you condemned harassment by aGG?" is the games equivalent of "how come we never hear about all the black on black crime!?"
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Jul 10, 2015 16:13
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a bay posted:I can't wait to get home from work, put on Smokey and the Bandit Part 3, blaze up that bogus gas station weed, and draft my multi paragraph post with quotes and citations about the possibility that Zoe Quinn finished those journalist guys off with a bukaki type scenario where they shot loads on her face and glasses and cummed their jizz all on her neck and tits. Is there a good Zizek quote that I can work into this post ...[I]s fist-loving not the sexual invention of the twentieth century, a new model of eroticism and pleasure? It is no longer genitalized, but focused just on the penetration of the surface, with the role of the phallus being taken over by the hand, the autonomized partial object par excellence. And, what about the so-called Transformer or animorph toys, a car or a plane that can be transformed into a humanoid robot, an animal that can be morphed into a human or robot. Is this not Deleuzian? There are no "metaphorics" here; the point is not that the machinic or animal form is revealed as a mask containing a human shape but, rather, the existence of the becoming-machine or becoming-animal of the human, the flow of continuous morphing. What is blurred here is also the divide machine/living organism: a car transmutes into a humanoid/cyborg organism. And, is the ultimate irony not that, for Deleuze, the sport was surfing, a Californian sport par excellence if there ever was one? No longer a sport of self-control and domination directed towards some goal, it is just a practice of inserting oneself into a wave and letting oneself be carried by it.
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Jul 10, 2015 16:25
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My eyes instinctively glaze when they detect Zizekist text.
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Jul 10, 2015 16:30
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http://gamasutra.com/blogs/MichaelSamyn/20150709/248130/1_Violence_begets_Violence.php the sunset dev went full jack Thompson. Not surprising given their twitter outburst when the game didnt sell.
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Jul 10, 2015 16:30
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They are dumb.
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Jul 10, 2015 16:31
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Dapper_Swindler posted:http://gamasutra.com/blogs/MichaelSamyn/20150709/248130/1_Violence_begets_Violence.php Xbone is really really bad and I wish ill on those who supported it except for SWERY.
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Jul 10, 2015 16:34
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Dapper_Swindler posted:http://gamasutra.com/blogs/MichaelSamyn/20150709/248130/1_Violence_begets_Violence.php They haven't attempted to petition before the SCOTUS, file several frivolous lawsuit and be permanently disbarred from practicing law so I think this may be slightly hyperbolic. What they've done is write an opinion piece.
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Jul 10, 2015 16:34
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Ddraig posted:They haven't attempted to petition before the SCOTUS, file several frivolous lawsuit and be permanently disbarred from practicing law so I think this may be slightly hyperbolic. What they've done is write an opinion piece. Exactly. And the idea of "hey wouldn't it be cool if we had more games where violence wasn't the primary method of interacting with the world" isn't one that I find inherently repellent.
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Jul 10, 2015 16:36
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Ddraig posted:They haven't attempted to petition before the SCOTUS, file several frivolous lawsuit and be permanently disbarred from practicing law so I think this may be slightly hyperbolic. What they've done is write an opinion piece. It's a slippery slope from bad opinion pieces to Legalized Horse Marriage and the mass incarceration of gamers.
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Jul 10, 2015 16:38
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Serf posted:Exactly. And the idea of "hey wouldn't it be cool if we had more games where violence wasn't the primary method of interacting with the world" isn't one that I find inherently repellent. That's quite clearly not the point he's making. He wants there to not be any games where violence is central to the experience in a positive way: quote:A game industry that claims to support tolerance and respect is hypocritical as long as it produces and supports entertainment in which the wounding and killing of others is central to the amusement.
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Jul 10, 2015 16:39
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I hope somebody posts a picture of Zoe Quinn so these knuckle heads can see that she is so blazin that if you wouldn't be willing to sacrifice your games journalism integrity and risk coming into contact with other mens sperms to get with her then you probably don't even loving play video games dude (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 10, 2015 16:43
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Obdicut posted:Normal, reasonable people don't feel like they have to denounce terror threats made by people they have no connection to. Why would the fact ahat I think GGers have no point and are creepy mean that I need to denounce a bomb threat against them? I pre-denounce all bomb threats. Without any leaders, you automatically have a connection. Their anti-GG stance is your anti-GG stance. If you want gamergate to be a serious discussion, and the time and effort you've spent in this thread suggests you want it to be, you can't afford to sit back and presume everyone is against these terror threats.
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Jul 10, 2015 16:53
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Freakazoid_ posted:Without any leaders, you automatically have a connection. Their anti-GG stance is your anti-GG stance. If you want gamergate to be a serious discussion, and the time and effort you've spent in this thread suggests you want it to be, you can't afford to sit back and presume everyone is against these terror threats. But is there a movement, a hashtag, labeled "antigamergate" or whatever?
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Jul 10, 2015 16:55
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Effectronica posted:But is there a movement, a hashtag, labeled "antigamergate" or whatever? I guess the closest thing would have been #StopGamerGate but no one uses it anymore since it became clear that the end goal was impossible.
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Jul 10, 2015 16:58
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I can't believe this is still a discussion. Everyone on every side of this discussion is just being silly. Why are people complaining about journalistic ethics in an industry that has none, that is a glorified advertising industry where game stores and the like own the most widely-read publications? There's a bigger problem that everyone's ignoring. (But as everyone has figured out the issue GG people are concerned about is not ethics in games journalism.) I remember meeting a guy who would never stop bringing up GamerGate stuff. Eventually he brought up some college visit on the East Coast from some "Factual Feminist" person who he mentioned was "one of the premiere female Mens' Rights Activists" and I never spoke to him after that. Actually, I'll be silly, too. I'm curious about that college visit. The guy told me some people set up some kind of "safety room" for people who didn't want to hear her speak and they were just playing videos of puppies playing or something on loop. It was a very stereotypical "sensitive tumblr SJW" image. I want to know if this actually happened. If so, this fuels my shame toward the Anti-Gamergate people too for being flippant instead of doing something useful in protest. I want to know the full story.
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Jul 10, 2015 17:04
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Effectronica posted:But is there a movement, a hashtag, labeled "antigamergate" or whatever? What Serf said. Also Gamerghazi kind of took up that torch.
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Jul 10, 2015 17:06
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There is no Anti-GamerGate just like there's no Anti-ISIS. It's a bunch of separate movements that probably vehemently disagree with each other under normal circumstances but are united by the sheer idiocy of the actual movement.
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Jul 10, 2015 17:08
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Freakazoid_ posted:What Serf said. Also Gamerghazi kind of took up that torch. Oh right, I forgot about Gamerghazi, one of the most tastelessly-named places I've seen on the Internet.
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Jul 10, 2015 17:08
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John Quixote posted:I can't believe this is still a discussion. Everyone on every side of this discussion is just being silly. Incorrect, there are freaks and woman-stalkers on one side and people who think that should stop on the other. One side is correct, the other should face ostracism and job loss.
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Jul 10, 2015 17:10
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