|
PittTheElder posted:Anyone know why they do that? Something something autoloader?
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2015 01:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 11:18 |
|
|
FAUXTON posted:Folks would be more likely to be able to point out the T80 as Russian than the others but yeah the Challenger and Leopard would have people wondering who the gently caress that is, unless the particular European city is proximate to a training area for those tanks. The T80 just looks Russian as all hell. Your average civilian person just sees a generic tank. For many of them you should be happy if they can see the difference between a MBT and an IFV. But I wouldn't be able to name different types of polearms or chariots or ICBMs, for that matter.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2015 01:26
|
|
|
Nenonen posted:But I wouldn't be able to name different types of ICBMs, for that matter. That's what the rest of the thread is here for  EDIT: In a situation like a police action, there really isn't much difference between an armored van and an Abrams... Either way they're immune to small arms. I saw a couple police BearCats when I was a little kid in NYC, that was really sexy. The real force multiplier for cops imo is helicopters. Keldoclock fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Jul 12, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2015 01:30
|
|
|
Nenonen posted:Your average civilian person just sees a generic tank. For many of them you should be happy if they can see the difference between a MBT and an IFV.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2015 01:36
|
|
|
PittTheElder posted:The Russian preference for round turrets is just crazy distinctive. Anyone know why they do that? Something something autoloader? AceRimmer posted:Something something cult of the low profile?
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2015 02:29
|
|
|
PittTheElder posted:The Russian preference for round turrets is just crazy distinctive. Anyone know why they do that? Something something autoloader? The bowl shape of Soviet turrets goes hand in hand with the focus on low profile and relatively light weight of their tanks, it's a very compact shape that allows the frontal armor to protect a fairly wide arc from the front, and it's very short front to back, that saves you a lot of weight on the side and top armor. The weight efficiency of the basic design line from T-54 to T-80 is pretty crazy, if you look at a T-55 and a King Tiger side by side, the armor protection is basically the same, they have equivalent firepower, yet the T-55 is literally half the weight. This has consequences not only in production costs and reliability but you also end up with a tank that can go in a lot more places, as you can actually use the bridges and you don't destroy the roads in places with limited infrastructure. Given the size and infrastructure of a lot of the USSR that was rather important.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2015 03:33
|
|
|
PittTheElder posted:The Russian preference for round turrets is just crazy distinctive. Anyone know why they do that? Something something autoloader? I'd say that there were a number of push/pull factors operating on different levels of decision that led to the baseline T-64 layout that's been iterated upon until very recently. IIRC on the industrial side turret casting had been invested upon to such a great degree, and to a pretty advanced level by Soviet standards as well, that switching to any other production process would have been plain wasteful. Contemporary blank-slate Western designs like the early Leo I and Chieftain went with cast turrets too, NATO tanks' 'boxiness' only appearing after the composite armor breakthrough of the 1970s. Also, the perceived positive synergy of (1) the much smaller 4TD engine, (2) losing an entire crewmember and his requisite internal space to a much more compact integrated ammo storage/autoloading system, and (3) the inherent efficiency of a rounded turrets' RHA (rolled homogenous armor) protection level was a big driver towards a generally smaller vehicle. So maybe not so much cult of the low profile, but the opportunity for having a small silhouette, lower weight, and a really big gun all in the same package. The first of which inherently improves protection by tens of percents (it's harder to hit a smaller area), the second having very positive effects on tactical & operational mobility (more kinds of terrain and bridges will be able to carry your tanks), and the third being important in making those battalion sized volley-fire hits count for decades to come (and making up for deficiencies in ammo production as well). Unfortunately the engine turned out to be somewhat of a failure, only three dudes to a tank invited sustainability problems, and the center mass of the tank being full of extremely combustible poo poo kinda made the entire design concept into a glass cannon. Still, as a mass-produced mainline tank meant for short 1960s offensive drives on a nuclear battlefield, it was an eminently rational design. Technological developments wrt protection and target acquisition in the 1970s (pointing towards a different kind of tradeoff in firepower vs vulnerability) just meant that its place in the sun as a universal solution was kinda short-lived, ending up as a conceptual dead end by the late 1980s. e: i no write good Koesj fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Jul 12, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2015 03:34
|
|
|
Taiping Tianguo Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 Part 4 Part 5 Part 6 Part 7 Part 8 Part 9 Part 10 Part 11 Part 12 Part 13 Part 14 Sorry for the long wait. Been busy with life and what not, not to mention that the western expedition is hopelessly tangled compared to the northern one. I've done my best to put a linear narrative together, but assume that for every battle, siege, and side campaign noted, there are half a dozen other ones being omitted. Western Promises The Taiping western expedition was launched nearly simultaneously with the northern in May of 1853. The Taiping armies advanced with three vigorous thrusts aiming at a triple penetration of imperial territory. The central force, under Hu Yiyang and Han Lanying, retook Anqing and proceeded southward towards Nanchang. They were met there by a southern force under Shi Zhenxiang and Wei Jun (brothers of Shi Dakai and Wei Changhui). The city was stoutly defended by, among others, Jiang Zhongyuan, and despite several months of siege the Taiping were forced to retreat and turn back north The best chance to take the city was lost when Lai Hanying failed to assault the breach after the Taiping miners exploded a tunnel. He mistakenly believed there was supposed to be a second explosion and hesitated. During these battles around Nanchang, Hunan army troops, under Jiang Chungshu and Luo Zenan will see combat for the first time, suffering defeats at the hands of Zeng Tianyang, one of the few old men among the Taiping generals. Despite several months of siege the Taiping were forced to retreat and turn back north and abandon Nanchang in September. They will quickly take Jiujiang, Hanying, and Hankou ( all cities that had been previously occupied by the Taiping). Jiang Zhongyuan will be rewarded for his role in pretty much every imperial victory thus far with the governorship of Anhui province, and will hurry to defend it. The Taiping have been commanded to hurry to the new Anhui capital of Luzhou, and do not attack Wuchang even though it likely would have fallen. Jiang, though suffering from illness at Liuan, receives a letter from prefectural adminstrator Hu Yuenwei in Luzhou. Hu informs him that the city is well supplied and well organized, and just needs Jiang to come to command them and bring his militia reinforcements. Jiang comes as asked, only to find the militia to be a total shitshow. Taking command of the forces in the city, numbering about 5000, he sets about organizing defence as best he can. He will command the defence personally from the walls, and will attract many volunteers to help defend the city. Jiang is still pissed at Hu for getting him into the mess, and verbally eviscerates him, telling him "Since you worry so much, why are you still so fat?" Jiang also comes close to executing several members of the gentry who were supposed to be responible for militia organization. Meanwhile the Taiping had surrounded the city. A 20,000 strong relief force under Manchu Shuxinga and Green Standard general He Chun was defeated and prevented from making contact with the defenders. Jiang, his situation growing more desperate, prepares for death and prays to the city god.  After a month and several failed tunnels, the Taiping try something new on January 15, 1854. They dig two tunnels, one above the other. The first goes off, and Jiang promptly orders the breach blocked while the Taiping hold back. A second explosion then detonates right under the defenders of the breach. Simultaneously, militiamen on the wall lower ropes to help the Taiping up to the top. The city was now doomed. As it turns out, Hu Yuenwei and the other disgraced gentry had decided to throw in their lot with the Taiping. Jiang will resist attempts to carry him to safety and instead drown himself and die with the city. The sack is similar to other Taiping conquests so far; despite relatively good behavior, the death toll in the fighting and from suicides is still enormous. The death of Jiang will be a great loss to the empire, as well as to Zeng Guofan. Zeng had hoped to turn his militia over to Jiang for field command, but will now end up leading them into battle personally. Defense of Hunan The imperial armies will start a long campaign to retake Luzhou and northern Anhui, but many Taiping forces will depart for the west, towards Wuchang and then into Hunan. They are commanded by Huang Caixing and Lin Shaochang, and neither troops nor commanders represent the elite of the Taiping. Like the northern expedition, the Taiping do not seem to have realized that their offensive campaigns represent their best chance of crippling the dynasty before the overwhelming imperial advantage in numbers and territory can grind the rebels down. The Taiping will prove more adept at taking cities then holding them, suggesting that both manpower and organizational talent was stretched too thin by expansion on multiple fronts. Huang stays with a small part of the force to siege Wuchang, the rest follow Lin towards Changsha, taking Youzhou, Xiangtan, and Jinggang. The Xiang army of Zeng Guofan hurries to defend Changsha. The first few battles go badly for them. In particular, Zeng attempts to personally lead a surprise amphibous assault on Jinggang, only to be swarmed by the Taiping navy and roundly defeated. Zeng's secretary has to fish him out of the river after an attempt at suicide. Zeng is still ashamed and depressed, and is literally coffin shopping while he waits for governor Lo Bingzhang to demote him and disband his apparently useless army. It is at this point that news comes that the Xiang army, under Tachipu ( an experienced Manchu officer Zeng had previously recruited for his tactical knowledge and experience), has scored an enormous victory at Xiangtan during the last week of April. The Taiping force had lost 10,000 men and 10,000 more were scurrying for their lives. As to how this victory came about, most evidence points to Lin Shaochang being really, really bad at his job. One of Zeng's first questions years later to captured Taiping commanders is "Why the hell was Lin Shaochang given an army?"  The significance of this victory is even greater in retrospect. The military reorganization spearheaded by Zeng may very well have been discarded as a failed experiment. If Changsha and by extension Hunan had fallen, the tremendous outpouring of men and material that saves the Qing could have been harnessed by the Taiping. It would also open up a corridor to Guangxi and Guangdong, which were a thin pube away from triad control before the war, and would almost certainly swing over to the Taiping the second they arrived. The Taiping retreat from Hunan and focus instead on taking Wuchang. The city is starved out and the handful of defenders cannot stop a determined assault. Joining the Taiping forces is old man Zeng Tianyang. At the other end of the age spectrum, the first man over the walls is a young 18 year old commander named Chen Yucheng, known as the "four eyed dog" due to his weird scars under his eyes. The promotion he receives is just one step in a steady rise to the upper level of the Taiping hierarchy. Zeng's Counterattack Once Zeng Guofan finishes reorganizing his troops and rebuilding his navy (now numbering over 500 craft of various sizes), the 20,000 strong Hunan army sets out from Changsha. Their success means that Zeng has the full cooperation of the governor and other local officials, which is good as his official position and rank is still somewhat nebulous. They push the Taiping out of Youzhou, only to suffer a major naval defeat on Lake Dongting. Zeng is undeterred and governor Luo replaces the lost ships. The Xiang army scores a victory in a meeting engagement with Zeng Tianyang, who dies in a brave but unsuccessful suicide charge against general Tachipu. Assisted by his talented subordinates Luo Zenan and Li Xubin, Zeng soon pushes Wei Jun's forces entirely out of Hunan. The Taiping forces are weakened by the need to fight on multiple fronts, as northern and southern imperial barracks are still maintaining armies right around the capital under He Chun and Xiang Rong. Additionally, Luzhou is under siege, and Yang Xiuqing will dispatch Luo Dagang and Jin Riyang (Yang Xiuqing's right hand man) to attempt to relieve it. They will then continue north to reinforce the imperiled northern expedition. Instead, they will be stopped short of Luzhou by He Chun and Jin Dingsan at Shucheng, midway between Anqing and Luzhou. This is a crucial victory for the imperialists, as it both dooms the northern expedition and ensures that the siege of Luzhou will continue uninterrupted until the city is finally regained in 1855. With Hunan secure, the next step for Zeng's army is to retake Wuchang, a task made simpler by the recall of Taiping forces back to Nanjing. Luo Xenan devises a solid battle plan of a combining a land attack on both banks with a naval operation to sever Taiping communication between Wuchang, Hanyang, and Hankou. The naval operation, the key to the plan, is a smashing success and the Taiping fleet is wiped out. It takes only a few days for the Taiping to realize they had been outmaneuvered and abandon the cities with the Xiang army in pursuit. Tachipu shows a rare moment of mercy when he rescues a detachement of the Taiping Boy's Army from drowning in the river. The Taiping mostly escape with light casualties, but that is not much consolation, as men are more easily replaced than boats, and less vital to halting the Xiang army's advance down the Yangtze. Beyond the battles noted here, the campaigns in the west from 1853-1856 encompassed many more cities falling and additional fighting on other fronts. You may have noticed there is a ton of trading cities back and forth, and this is a pattern that will contribute to the tremendous toll on the civilian population. Taiping administration of conquered territory was generally fair, with Shi Dakai being singled out even in imperial sources as a kind and just administrator. But within the immediate war zone suffering was immense, and the constantly shifting front meant that the "immediate war zone" would encompass most of south China at one time or another. The Taiping armies were well disciplined in the main, at least those that were not recently Triad bandits. However, these disciplined formations would be followed by an assortment of bandits, deserters, and general ne'er do wells who would loot and pillage the populace. Even worse, in many cases, the next group on the scene would be imperial troops. In the words of Zeng Guofan, "the bandits loot the people like a coarse comb, the soldiers like a fine comb." Zeng will exhort his troops to respect and care for the common people, a message which will stick in some cases and not in others. He even composes a song titled "Love the People", in which he uses the power of verse to encourage his men to stop kidnapping peasants and stealing their doors for firewood. He is not blind to the depredations of imperial troops, and also recognizes its deleterious political effect. Perhaps it is because his fundamental loyalty to his cause is so unshakeable that Zeng is able to be a very clear eyed observer of the many flaws of the imperial military and government; he has no need to lie to himself. The Taiping will try to stem the tide at Dianjiazhen, setting up a powerful barrier of river chains and fortifications. Tachipu and the Xiang army forces systematically dismantle the Taiping defenses and force the Taiping, despite Yang Xiuqing's furious orders to hold at all costs, into a retreat back to Jiujiang. It is understandable that at this point, Zeng starts getting a bit cocky. He will soon regret it, as he will soon face the Taiping's A-team. Luo Dagang, former pirate and expert in naval warfare, and Shi Dakai, Assistant King, Lord of the Holy Lightning, will remind Zeng that for all his talent at building an army, battlefield command is still not his strong suit. Day of Defeat Zeng detaches part of his force under Tachipu to siege Jiujiang and advances with the rest of his force to Hukou. Just past the entrance to lake Poyang, this city is key to controlling traffic between the upper and middle Yangtze. The Taiping have set up a barrier between the lake and the river. Zeng, unimpressed with fortifications considering how he had defeated the much stronger barricade at Tianchiachen, moves through the shallow waters with the small craft of his navy on January 29th, 1855. The sanpans suddenly find themselves cut off from the rest of the fleet when the Taiping reimpose the blockade. Zengs large warships, left behind on the river without light craft to screen them, are surrounded and burned by the xiaohuo, or small craft, of the Taiping river fleet. Without naval support, the land attack on Hukou is forced to pull back. The Xiang army and navy pull back to return to Jiujiang. Zeng's navy is raided again by Luo Dagang in a night attack, losing most of Zeng's remaining ships including his personal flagship. More than half his fleet has been all but wiped out, and much of the remainder is bottled up uselessly in the lake. Zeng again needs to be restrained from suiciding in the wake of the disastrous defeat.  It's now time for the Taiping to bypass Jiujiang as they advance, under Chen Yucheng and Jin Riyang , back to retake Wuchang. Zeng is helpless to stop them. Most of his forces have been sent back to Hunan with the remanant of the fleet, and his small army at Jiujiang is isolated. He will move south along the lake to Nanchang, where his fleet has retreated. Unlike in Hunan, the Jiangxi governor and officials see no reason to give any help to the now disgraced general. His problems will get worse as news comes of the fall of Wuchang, and of the serious defeat of the Hunan army's attempt to retake it (It could be worse; the Taiping at Wuchang miss a chance to pursue and finish off the Xiang army). The next blow is the loss of Tachipu, who dies suddenly of natural causes in the prime of life, while commanding the army futilely sieging Jiujiang. Finally, an attack across the lake by Lo Zenan on Hukou ends in yet another defeat. Shi Dakai and Wei Jun push past Wuchang once again, but Hunan is saved when Shi diverts to Jiangxi on a mission to incorporate triad rebels into the Taiping army. (More about other ongoing rebellions in another post). Luo Zenan eventually battles Wei Jun back to Wuchang to try to take it back once again. Luo will be killed by a cannonball in an attempted assault, after which the imperial troops will settle in and try to starve the city out. The siege of Wuchang will be weakened by the need to send troops to try to help Zeng in Nanchang. Shi Dakai, bolstered by tens of thousands of triad recruits, carves a path through Jiangxi and surrounds the capital city. Shi methodically takes every city in the province except the capital, leaving no route for reinforcement or supply. Following defeats on land and on the lake, it would seem that Zeng will soon suffer the same fate as Jiang Zhongyuan, dying in a hopeless defense along with everything he had tried to build.  I'll leave Zeng twisting in the wind there for a few updates. Next up should be some background on the Taiping and the west, then the Nien and Red Turban rebellions. Also, I've noticed the Taiping seal is roughly av shaped. Any suggestions for text? 
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2015 03:43
|
|
|
Koesj posted:(2) losing an entire crewmember and his requisite internal space to a much more compact integrated ammo storage/autoloading system, quote:and the center mass of the tank being full of extremely combustible poo poo kinda made the entire design concept into a glass cannon T___A fucked around with this message at 03:52 on Jul 12, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2015 03:46
|
|
|
P-Mack posted:Taiping Tianguo Can't make an omelette without breaking 20 million eggs.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2015 03:47
|
|
|
T___A posted:The use of an autoloader was to increase firepower, the space saving did not figure into it which is why the Object 430 and Object 432 are the same size despite the autoloader difference. If Kharkov wanted to go the route of NII-100 and wanted to make it smaller they would've put all the crew in the turret or the hull. You are right, I've got it rear end backwards wrt required firepower versus crewing being the main factor rather than a beneficial secondary effect.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2015 03:58
|
|
|
...and then you paste ERA bricks all over. Just slather the tank in it. The closer it looks to a spontaneously animated stack of bricks, the better.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2015 06:34
|
|
|
HEY GAL posted:
 Never stop posting.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2015 07:00
|
|
|
Just popping in to say the Taiping overview is great.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2015 07:16
|
|
|
Just experienced a moment of shock and horror when I discovered I'd reached the end of the thread. Was a hell of a read, cheers for all involved and I'm particularly enjoying the Taiping stuff, not a period I really knew anything about.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 04:33
|
|
|
ArchangeI posted:Much like the tanks, the workhorses were designed in the 30s and then upgraded again and again until they were well past their prime, while there were a number of projects that tried, in best German fashion, to solve a difficult problem with an elegant and complicated solution. Like a strategic bomber that was also able to divebomb and tried to run two propellers on four engines. That worked about as well as you might imagine. That wasn't a German only issue though. Just look at the B-17, Hurricane, Spitfire, Yak and so on. If anything, those mid-to-late 30's aircraft show that their designs were well ahead of the curve. The main issue is keeping productivity up while having state of the art aircraft available to fight with, and as it turns out coming up with an entirely new design fucks up production lines. And lets not forget that everyone had some extremely lovely designs at one point or another that led to planes more dangerous to the users than their enemies. And that whacky designs (or far too advanced prototypes) was a universal thing as well. Miracle weapons ala Amerikabomber also had some parallels with japanese and british theoretical designs.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 05:48
|
|
|
GreyjoyBastard posted:
But all three of Mansfeld's Oberst-Lieutenants are going to meet again, at the battle of Breitenfeld. Friendly, garrulous Stack Loeser, whose idea of the right way to write a letter is to take some extremely large sheets of paper and just pour everything in his mind onto them in terrible handwriting and without any punctuation whatsoever, is leading a regiment of Saxons. The Saxons are now on Sweden's side. Von Pernstein did get that new regiment of cavalry he was promised, and he's leading it for the Imperial army, even though the man who signed him up has been fired. Camargo, after years as an Oberst-Lieutenant, has finally reached the level where the big money is made, and he's heading up the Camargo-Rheinach regiment, also on the Imperial side. (He's a real douche to his subordinates though. I'll run through his life story at some point.) It's nice to be reunited with friends.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 10:47
|
|
|
Murgos posted:I enlisted in 1990. It was well known at the time that the military in the mid '70s was an absolute shambles. Not equipment wise but moral and discipline were in the shitter. There were riots on some of the bases it was so bad. A bit late to the party, but can you tell me about those riots? I know about fraggings in vietnam and war resistance subculture in the army underground, but this seems crazy (awesome)!
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 11:37
|
|
|
Tias posted:A bit late to the party, but can you tell me about those riots? I know about fraggings in vietnam and war resistance subculture in the army underground, but this seems crazy (awesome)! If you want to really go into depth, Prodigal Soldiers is a really good book about Vietnam, the shambles it made of the military and how it got rebuilt.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 13:16
|
|
|
Stack Loeser is one hell of a name.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 13:46
|
|
|
Why?
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 13:53
|
|
|
WW2 Data Today's update has us viewing the only IJA rocket - fired from the Type 4 20cm Rocket Launcher - some mortar shells, and stick charges. It should be noted that the Type 4 rocket launcher is more akin to a mortar in its setup and firing than a rocket launcher, like the Bazooka or Panzerschreck. With the Russians, we have a smaller update consisting of their 57mm projectiles. After this, we'll get to take a very long look at 76mm projectiles.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 14:17
|
|
|
Fangz posted:Stack Loeser is one hell of a name. It's also incredibly funny to me that everyone else just loses track of him for like, a few months, even though I know it shouldn't be. There's no telegraphs, no phones, and barely any administration, so when he visits Germany it's entirely possible for him to just fall off the face of the earth as far as Milan's concerned, it's just...how do you lose a Lieutenant Colonel. I don't think there are any street addresses either, this is how von Mansfeld addresses a letter to Camargo in Brussels:  Theodore de Camargo, Knight of the Holy Roman Empire and Oberst Lieutnant of a Regiment of Infantry who are Germans in Brussels The idea, I guess, is that once you get there you can narrow it down. How many people who answer to that description can there be? HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Jul 13, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 14:25
|
|
|
Tias posted:A bit late to the party, but can you tell me about those riots? I know about fraggings in vietnam and war resistance subculture in the army underground, but this seems crazy (awesome)! It wasn't awesome. Are you thinking these were like...idealistic anti-war people trying to subvert the man or something? They weren't. Today's senior officers were platoon and company guys back in the late 70s and the poo poo they talk about is absolutely insane. The Army was a major trafficker of all manner of drugs in both directions between the US and Europe, gangs had major footholds on practically every installation, criminal accountability within some units was practically nonexistent. When officers inspected barracks, they'd have to have armed guards escort them through. Abductions/kidnapping, rape, human trafficking, etc was absolutely epidemic in Europe. It was ugly all around and everybody is better off for it having been improved.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 15:29
|
|
|
For future thread content, I'd love if somebody would talk about the Soviet-Polish War of the twenties. What was that? four times Zeng Guofan tried to kill himself?
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 15:58
|
|
|
Could be wrong on some of these since I assume you're looking for projectile filler, and not completed round filler (propellant).Xerxes17 posted:Hey JobboFett, could you quickly look up the HE filler amount for these soviet shells? BR-367: ???? Xerxes17 posted:BR-365A and K (85mm) BR-365A: ???? BR-365K: 0.16 kg Xerxes17 posted:BR-412A, K and D (100mm) None available Xerxes17 posted:BR-350 and A (76mm) BR-350: 0.155 kg BR-350A: 0.16 kg Xerxes17 posted:I can't remember the codes for the 122mm shells for guns like the A-19. Again, not sure what rounds youre asking for since my manual covers what it can and includes HE, AP, Smoke, etc... For entries that list the A-19: OF-471N: 4.85 kg BR-471B: 0.156 kg G-471: 2.2 kg
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 16:05
|
|
|
SeanBeansShako posted:
Twice so far, I think he's got at least one more coming. Right now in Nanchang he's just really depressed because he can't afford to pay the men he still has, and the other officials in Jiangxi treat him like dirt and won't help. A few years later, he writes a letter to his son more or less quoting GiP. "Whatever you do with your life, don't become a soldier."
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 16:19
|
|
|
Can I get an effort post on Napoleonic artillery? I'm mostly trying to get a sense of how many pounds of lead are flying through the air compared to other time periods, like the early modern.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 18:01
|
|
|
bewbies posted:It wasn't awesome. Are you thinking these were like...idealistic anti-war people trying to subvert the man or something? They weren't. Today's senior officers were platoon and company guys back in the late 70s and the poo poo they talk about is absolutely insane. The Army was a major trafficker of all manner of drugs in both directions between the US and Europe, gangs had major footholds on practically every installation, criminal accountability within some units was practically nonexistent. When officers inspected barracks, they'd have to have armed guards escort them through. Abductions/kidnapping, rape, human trafficking, etc was absolutely epidemic in Europe. It was ugly all around and everybody is better off for it having been improved. So the movie Buffalo Soldiers was an accurate depiction of army life? Interesting, I though it was a comedy.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 18:04
|
|
bewbies posted:It wasn't awesome. Are you thinking these were like...idealistic anti-war people trying to subvert the man or something? They weren't. Today's senior officers were platoon and company guys back in the late 70s and the poo poo they talk about is absolutely insane. The Army was a major trafficker of all manner of drugs in both directions between the US and Europe, gangs had major footholds on practically every installation, criminal accountability within some units was practically nonexistent. When officers inspected barracks, they'd have to have armed guards escort them through. Abductions/kidnapping, rape, human trafficking, etc was absolutely epidemic in Europe. It was ugly all around and everybody is better off for it having been improved. Sounds like Police Academy but amazing even more horrible.
|
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 18:09
|
|
|
bewbies posted:It wasn't awesome. Are you thinking these were like...idealistic anti-war people trying to subvert the man or something? They weren't. Today's senior officers were platoon and company guys back in the late 70s and the poo poo they talk about is absolutely insane. The Army was a major trafficker of all manner of drugs in both directions between the US and Europe, gangs had major footholds on practically every installation, criminal accountability within some units was practically nonexistent. When officers inspected barracks, they'd have to have armed guards escort them through. Abductions/kidnapping, rape, human trafficking, etc was absolutely epidemic in Europe. It was ugly all around and everybody is better off for it having been improved. And that's like, not 40 in far away oriental countries? drat! Civvies probably wouldn't even notice a change of pace if Soviets invaded and started looting the place.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 20:16
|
|
|
SeanBeansShako posted:What was that? four times Zeng Guofan tried to kill himself? Well, sincerity IS important to the Confucian tradition, and how better to prove your sincerity by being willing to sacrifice it all?
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 20:28
|
|
|
Tomn posted:Well, sincerity IS important to the Confucian tradition, and how better to prove your sincerity by being willing to sacrifice it all? In practically every city the Taiping take, there are mass suicides among the upper classes and officialdom, so Zeng is by no means alone in his sentiments.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 20:45
|
|
|
bewbies posted:It wasn't awesome. Are you thinking these were like...idealistic anti-war people trying to subvert the man or something? They weren't. Today's senior officers were platoon and company guys back in the late 70s and the poo poo they talk about is absolutely insane. The Army was a major trafficker of all manner of drugs in both directions between the US and Europe, gangs had major footholds on practically every installation, criminal accountability within some units was practically nonexistent. When officers inspected barracks, they'd have to have armed guards escort them through. Abductions/kidnapping, rape, human trafficking, etc was absolutely epidemic in Europe. It was ugly all around and everybody is better off for it having been improved. Holy poo poo, that's terrifying when you consider that these are guys who are all trained and allowed to use the most high powered weapons. Good thing nothing ever lit off during then (except for jungle non-wars, I guess?).
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 21:20
|
|
|
SquadronROE posted:Holy poo poo, that's terrifying when you consider that these are guys who are all trained and allowed to use the most high powered weapons. Good thing nothing ever lit off during then (except for jungle non-wars, I guess?). The massive drug problems also included the nuclear force, so yeah. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 21:33
|
|
|
P-Mack posted:The massive drug problems also included the nuclear force, so yeah. Jesus christ. That's terrifying.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 21:41
|
|
|
bewbies posted:It wasn't awesome. Are you thinking these were like...idealistic anti-war people trying to subvert the man or something? They weren't. Today's senior officers were platoon and company guys back in the late 70s and the poo poo they talk about is absolutely insane. The Army was a major trafficker of all manner of drugs in both directions between the US and Europe, gangs had major footholds on practically every installation, criminal accountability within some units was practically nonexistent. When officers inspected barracks, they'd have to have armed guards escort them through. Abductions/kidnapping, rape, human trafficking, etc was absolutely epidemic in Europe. It was ugly all around and everybody is better off for it having been improved. It's awesome in the sense that soldiers were rioting against military authorities as a means of expressing discontent, obviously not defending abductions or rape here 
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 21:46
|
|
|
SquadronROE posted:Jesus christ. That's terrifying. Whenever you feel bad, just remind yourself that Russia has nuclear weapons. So that's that. No worries.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 21:47
|
|
|
SeanBeansShako posted:For future thread content, I'd love if somebody would talk about the Soviet-Polish War of the twenties. I have too much time on my hands and a promise to keep. I'll try to get around to it this week.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 21:55
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 11:18 |
|
|
bewbies posted:It wasn't awesome. Are you thinking these were like...idealistic anti-war people trying to subvert the man or something? They weren't. Today's senior officers were platoon and company guys back in the late 70s and the poo poo they talk about is absolutely insane. The Army was a major trafficker of all manner of drugs in both directions between the US and Europe, gangs had major footholds on practically every installation, criminal accountability within some units was practically nonexistent. When officers inspected barracks, they'd have to have armed guards escort them through. Abductions/kidnapping, rape, human trafficking, etc was absolutely epidemic in Europe. It was ugly all around and everybody is better off for it having been improved. These are all things that happened to some extent, but I would add that there's definitely a cautionary element to these sorts of stories and how they are told. In a large part they represent a doctrinal rejection of the draft and outcome of the Vietnam War. While there were problems going on in the rear-echelon units, the vast majority of the front-line units and premier bases were functioning pretty normally. And even in the worst hit installations, we're still talking about a handful of incidents per year.
|
|
#
?
Jul 13, 2015 21:56
|
|
