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mandatory lesbian posted:I don't think there's really a deck that wants Honored in the first place, especially considering the only deck that really wants Noble is infect, as far as I know If Hierarch was an Elf I'd at least consider it in Standard Elfball. (Yes I am aware Fireball is not actually a card, I just think Elfball is a funny name for an Elf deck).
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Jul 13, 2015 17:38
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Sickening posted:Sorry mcmagic, if it not on the front of chapin's book then I consider it invalid. notable missing archetype: prison
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Jul 13, 2015 17:38
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Zoness posted:notable missing archetype: prison Prisons have locks. Close enough.
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Jul 13, 2015 17:39
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Zoness posted:notable missing archetype: prison No that's his biography book.
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Jul 13, 2015 17:44
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Most of the legacy games i play end with me attacking someone with snapcasters or sometimes a blightsteel on like turn 15 Most of the modern games are over by turn 7 or 8 or at least pretty clear who's going to win
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Jul 13, 2015 17:45
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so I'm pondering getting back into things after giving a pre release thing over the weekend a shot. Can someone explain the tourney formats? mtg.com didn't really elaborate on what "Standard" actually is and such. I last played when it was called T1, T1.5 and T2 and T1 was "everything but the banned/restricted list" and T2 was the latest sets and latest core set and 1.5 I forget but nobody wanted to play. I'm also not sure I understand what this whole "last core set" thing means, I get that they've been doing refreshes every year or so for a while of the base set, does this just mean it's nothing but smaller expansions from here on out?
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Jul 13, 2015 17:47
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I think it's fair to say the new Grixis deck is tempo, it's aiming to kill off the opponent with 1 mana 4/5s and 5/5s before they can really get going. It's not really playing for the lategame at all.
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Jul 13, 2015 17:48
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Telex posted:so I'm pondering getting back into things after giving a pre release thing over the weekend a shot. t2 is Standard, t1 is Vintage, Legacy is Vintage but with cards banned (Vintage has only restricted cards, not banned) and t1.5 got phased out in favor of Modern. Modern is anything after 8th edition but with a really aggressive banlist.
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Jul 13, 2015 17:50
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Ciprian Maricon posted:In what way is Modern more diverse than Legacy? You like it more, and your rationale is reasonable but I don't think that's really true. More varied and viable (ie top 8-16 major events) decks. Sure miracles is different than grixis control is different than stoneblade but gently caress man, can we see a tier 1 meta that isn't force/brainstorm/ponder/wasteland. here is what I come up with as far as meta. This is from mtggoldfish Miracles 14% Grixis Control 8.56% BURg Delver 7% Stoneblade 6.6% RUG Delver 5.45% MUD 3.11% infect 2.72% BUG Delver 2.72% Elves 2.72% Grixis Control/Midrange 12.25% Grixis Twin 10.4% Burn 9.1% Affinity 8.89% Jund 8.13% RG Tron 3.8% Merfolk 3.36% Amulet Bloom 3.36% Infect 2.715 Living End 2.6% Naya Zoo 2.06% You have to go down to the 9th deck in legacy to find a deck that isn't based on force/ponder/brainstorm. And that is a storm deck that still runs brainstorm and ponder. There are two decks on that list MUD and Elves that don't run blue at all. Modern has diversity in that Burn, Jund, Affinity, Tron, Infect, Collected Company decks are all quite viable decks that don't need to go to blue for answers or fixing. That is why I like it more than Legacy. I feel it has more variety. I have nothing inherent against blue cards, but when what makes decks different is what cards you find with brainstorm and counter with force, that is not really diverse imo. jassi007 fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Jul 13, 2015 |
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Jul 13, 2015 17:51
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Telex posted:so I'm pondering getting back into things after giving a pre release thing over the weekend a shot. T1-Vintage, allows all cards (basically) T1.5-Legacy, allows all cards except for banned list T2-Standard, allows all cards in last 2 blocks (will soon be the last 3 blocks when new system comes out) Modern, any thing 8th edition and forward is legal except for cards on the banned list
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Jul 13, 2015 17:52
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Telex posted:so I'm pondering getting back into things after giving a pre release thing over the weekend a shot. Type 1 is dead aside from some annual events but an online retailer started doing major tournaments for 1.5 and its decently popular. Type 1.x is called modern now and is what all the non-1.5 people play. Type 2 just got a major overhaul on the release and cycle situation so you'll have to change decks twice a year now. Chill la Chill fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Jul 13, 2015 |
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Jul 13, 2015 17:52
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wasnt 1.5 extended? if its legacy then whoops got it confused.
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Jul 13, 2015 17:53
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Ciprian Maricon posted:That's not really true other than "durr turn 1 lose if you don't have force" non-sense, meanwhile silver bullet cards like Stony Silence, Choke, Blood Moon, even Dragon's Claw play a very different role in Modern. There are only 1 or two decks in Legacy that just full out "lose" to FoW or Wasteland and those are really degenerate like Charbelcher. A lot of Modern games end with you going "well they resolved X card, I lose now" and that's pretty lame. Do you think those cards don't get played or aren't powerful in legacy? Except claw obviously. Like seriously people run choke in plenty of sideboards and there are multiple main board moon decks. The difference is that in legacy you expect people to have those kinds of haymakers and play around them. If you're dead to moon you'd better have a counterspell or abrupt decay mana available.
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Jul 13, 2015 17:57
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jassi007 posted:You have to go down to the 9th deck in legacy to find a deck that isn't based on force/ponder/brainstorm. MUD is 6th on your list though. It's either straight-colorless or a tiny red splash for Goblin Welder, mostly straight colorless now-a-days. In fact Ponder/Brainstorm kinda suck when you're slapping down Trinispheres and Chalices for 1 and have no fetches, and without those to be pitched Force is kinda bad.
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Jul 13, 2015 18:05
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Chill la Chill posted:Type 1 is dead aside from some annual events but an online retailer started doing major tournaments for 1.5 and its decently popular. Type 1.x is called modern now and is what all the non-1.5 people play. The only real play you see in Type 1 is basically just Vintage Super League, which has no real stakes so everyone shows up with goofy brews (which is awesome). Oh and Maro is loving whining about the Legendary rule on his blog yet again. (He wants to get rid of it for reasons)
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Jul 13, 2015 18:07
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mcmagic posted:If i want to play Legacy Jund in a metagame full of Omnitell, I'm just going to lose 75% of my matches and there is nothing I can do about it. That isn't the case in modern which is what is cool about it. "If I want to play this bad deck I'm going to lose a bunch." jassi007 posted:More varied and viable (ie top 8-16 major events) decks. Sure miracles is different than grixis control is different than stoneblade but gently caress man, can we see a tier 1 meta that isn't force/brainstorm/ponder/wasteland. MUD isn't any of those things. Neither is Elves. Death and Taxes is also a really good deck that's not represented because $150 MTGO Ports. Miracles doesn't really play Wasteland and often doesn't play Ponder. Every deck on that list plays extremely differently. I'm a halfway competent RUG Delver player but if I picked up any of those decks aside from maybe the other Delver decks I'd be lost. If you count "Delver" as one category, which is really dumb to do, but for the sake of argument, you have around 15% of the meta. Compare that to... jassi007 posted:Grixis Control/Midrange 12.25% ...almost 1/4 of all decks being Grixis and another 30% being 3 decks. Nice and diverse.
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Jul 13, 2015 18:08
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Using blue vs non-blue feels like a bit of an unfair qualifier for whether a format is diverse or not, especially when it's only because of a small set of cards (Force, Brainstorm, and Ponder - if we even get to Ponder) because not every deck supports them in the same way, nor does every blue deck play the same. I would consider a meta at a local shop consisting of Painter's Servant, Omnitell, Reanimator, Miracles, Delver, and Food Chain to be diverse even though they all likely share 8 cards between all of them.
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Jul 13, 2015 18:09
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I like how we're all playing the statistics game to argue our sides now. 
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Jul 13, 2015 18:10
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mcmagic posted:If i want to play Legacy Jund in a metagame full of Omnitell, I'm just going to lose 75% of my matches and there is nothing I can do about it. That isn't the case in modern which is what is cool about it. If you want to play a deck that has a bad matchup against a deck that is popular in the metagame, you're going to lose, yes, that's kind of the point of the term "metagame".
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Jul 13, 2015 18:11
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Chill la Chill posted:I like how we're all playing the statistics game to argue our sides now. In fairness, they make it easy to illustrate a point, and easier to abuse (not to accuse anyone here of that, though, just speaking generally).
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Jul 13, 2015 18:13
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http://blogs.magicjudges.org/telliott/2015/07/13/magic-origins-policy-changes/ New Rule: Drawing Extra Cards is no longer a game loss. Instead, Drawing Extra Cards is a Warning, accompanied by revealing your hand and having the opponent choose the excess cards to shuffle back into the library
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Jul 13, 2015 18:14
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Aranan posted:So my first prerelease weekend since Invasion is now over. I went 2-2, 0-1 drop (RL stuff came up, but my pool was bad enough that I didn't feel guilty) and 4-2, missing top 8 by tiebreakers. Is seems like 4 rounds is normal for these events, but both the Saturday and Sunday events in my LGS were 6 rounds before top 8. Is that just because there were a lot of people (60+, I think)? I don't fully know how the pairings and whatnot works, so I just kind of play until the end and see how I did. But 6 rounds took for-loving-ever and I was dead by the end. For pre-releases, my lgs does things a little differently. Since attendance is generally high, and it's supposed to be a more casual, newbie-friendly atmosphere, they run four rounds of Swiss, then just pay out prizes based on how many matches you win, ranging from one pack for one win, and three more packs for each additional win, up to 10 packs for going 4-0. Prize packs are split between the new set and the previous set. It works pretty well and strikes a pretty nice balance between making sure most players get at least something and top players getting what feels like a pretty generous prize, while also keeping the event from lasting way too long (which is especially an issue for the midnight event).
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Jul 13, 2015 18:18
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Angry Grimace posted:http://blogs.magicjudges.org/telliott/2015/07/13/magic-origins-policy-changes/  I knew there had to be a card that did that. So the penalty is a Warning and a 3-cmc sorcery.
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Jul 13, 2015 18:19
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:MUD is 6th on your list though. It's either straight-colorless or a tiny red splash for Goblin Welder, mostly straight colorless now-a-days. hosed up the list. Here is the correct one. Miracles 14% Grixis Control 8.56% BURg Delver 7% Stoneblade 6.6% RUG Delver 5.45% Omni-Tell 4.67% Shardless BUG 3.89% Grixis Delver 3.89% MUD 3.11% infect 2.72% BUG Delver 2.72% Elves 2.72%
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Jul 13, 2015 18:22
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:
Only if you catch them 
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Jul 13, 2015 18:22
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Also, there's a lot of people saying "you can abuse this new rule!" despite the fact that that is just cheating and there are better ways to cheat.
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Jul 13, 2015 18:24
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GreyPowerVan posted:Only if you catch them Frankly I'd rather have a Vindicate or a Yawgmoth's Will as my 3cmc sorcery instead of Perish the Thought. At least hand me a Riding the Dilu Horse because there's no context in which I am going to actually cast that drat thing.
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Jul 13, 2015 18:26
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Angry Grimace posted:The only real play you see in Type 1 is basically just Vintage Super League, which has no real stakes so everyone shows up with goofy brews (which is awesome). Get rid of MaRo instead
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Jul 13, 2015 18:26
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Angry Grimace posted:http://blogs.magicjudges.org/telliott/2015/07/13/magic-origins-policy-changes/ I like it.
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Jul 13, 2015 18:26
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Angry Grimace posted:Also, there's a lot of people saying "you can abuse this new rule!" despite the fact that that is just cheating and there are better ways to cheat. I mean if you really wanted to get a shuffle for a warning you can probably just shuffle your deck for no reason or accidentally knock your deck to the ground.
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Jul 13, 2015 18:26
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Angry Grimace posted:http://blogs.magicjudges.org/telliott/2015/07/13/magic-origins-policy-changes/ Good, it should've been like this ages ago
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Jul 13, 2015 18:27
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Angry Grimace posted:Also, there's a lot of people saying "you can abuse this new rule!" despite the fact that that is just cheating and there are better ways to cheat.  the cheater now needs to know the simple magician's shuffle trick too.
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Jul 13, 2015 18:27
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Angry Grimace posted:Also, there's a lot of people saying "you can abuse this new rule!" despite the fact that that is just cheating and there are better ways to cheat. I can see it in my mind's eye: they have a Cosi's Trickster, so you tank 19 warnings in one game to get it to 20/20 and then you Act of Treason it and swing for lethal.
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Jul 13, 2015 18:28
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Angry Grimace posted:http://blogs.magicjudges.org/telliott/2015/07/13/magic-origins-policy-changes/ Interesting. Feels almost like you will be rooting for your opponent to draw an extra card. Free information plus you get rid of their best card.
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Jul 13, 2015 18:29
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Angry Grimace posted:The only real play you see in Type 1 is basically just Vintage Super League, which has no real stakes so everyone shows up with goofy brews (which is awesome). Ah yes we all want nothing more than allowing people to have multiple Thalias on the board. Because if you're going to remove the legendary rule you're probably also going to include Planeswalkers in that, so multiple Jace TMS also seems like A Good Idea.
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Jul 13, 2015 18:31
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jassi007 posted:Interesting. Feels almost like you will be rooting for your opponent to draw an extra card. Free information plus you get rid of their best card. I know a dude who plays Spirit of the Labyrinth at local weekly Legacy events just for the free game wins. I suppose he won't like being downgraded to free Thoughtseizes, but given that he's playing D&T, those two could easily be the same thing.
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Jul 13, 2015 18:33
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Count Bleck posted:Because if you're going to remove the legendary rule you're probably also going to include Planeswalkers in that, so multiple Jace TMS also seems like A Good Idea. Slippery slope and whatnot. Edit: soon we'll be able to play 30 Plague Rats and 30 Black Lotus again. Start speccing now!
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Jul 13, 2015 18:33
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I dig that as auto-losses to dexterity errors suuuuucks, but that is more than punishing enough to ensure that the behavior is adequately corrected. It also doesn't have any room for arguments or misrepresentation, since the card that gets shipped doesn't have to be the extra drawn.
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Jul 13, 2015 18:33
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Man where's Bertoncini with his Recallstorms now?
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Jul 13, 2015 18:36
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obligatory https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrXESPkyMQ8
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Jul 13, 2015 18:37
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