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wotc wanting to treat legendary is a flavor thing in their design instead of as a designed drawback makes legends that are uninteresting design
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Jul 13, 2015 21:36
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Try scrolling down the list of legends in standard. There are a couple of exceptions (most notably Silumgar, the Drifting Death and I guess maybe the anthems) but most of them aren't really particularly exceptional in multiples because they're just random dudes. This is to be expected - the design space for "you can only control one of these because it would be broken if you could control two" is very small and you would see very little of it if any at all if there weren't the flavour link to it.
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Jul 13, 2015 21:38
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nonlegendary dragonlord ojutai for president
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Jul 13, 2015 21:39
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http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/123886938093/when-the-panel-was-discussing-allies-do-they#notes So allies the mechanic is likely returning in BFZ. We should all spec hard on Kabira Evangels in case they make allies modern playable, right? (I specced on them hard before rise of the eldrazi was announced to have different mechanics than zendikar and allies turned out to be unplayable).
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Jul 13, 2015 21:40
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whydirt posted:Maro has said in his podcast that he realizes that's it's probably too late to change the Legendary rule now, it's just something he wishes they'd done earlier on, just like having sorceries with flash instead of instants as their own type. The sorcery with flash thing is weird since to me it seems like having two distinct card types is a much cleaner solution than tacking on an extra word on every single card that would represent an instant and it also let's you do stuff like Dispel without really convoluted rules texts.
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Jul 13, 2015 21:42
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Try scrolling down the list of legends in standard. There are a couple of exceptions (most notably Silumgar, the Drifting Death and I guess maybe the anthems) but most of them aren't really particularly exceptional in multiples because they're just random dudes. This is to be expected - the design space for "you can only control one of these because it would be broken if you could control two" is very small and you would see very little of it if any at all if there weren't the flavour link to it. The playable ones are exceptional because they are either really efficient or very powerful. Not having a card stuck in your hand because it is legendary isn't trivial.
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Jul 13, 2015 21:42
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Sickening posted:The playable ones are exceptional because they are either really efficient or very powerful. Not having a card stuck in your hand because it is legendary isn't trivial. Yeah that's my point - if I think of the playable ones in standard e.g. Nykthos, Atarka, Ojutai, Silumgar, Zurgo (and probably more that I'm missing) being legendary as a drawback really isn't trivial on them.
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Jul 13, 2015 21:43
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It's not that the drawback is trivial, it's that it's not particularly interesting. If something is a rule that new players have to just learn and get blown out by sometimes then that's a cost, and I don't think legendary does enough interesting things to justify that cost as opposed to just making legendary creatures maybe slightly worse. The drawback only kicks in sometimes at random, and also it can never make you choose not to run a card (at most it makes you go down to one copy). You couldn't just disable the rule but I wouldn't be surprised if they stopped printing the drawback on new cards at some point. Irony Be My Shield fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Jul 13, 2015 |
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Jul 13, 2015 21:44
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I recall some goons were talking about playing the Modern Grixis control deck earlier. LSV just released his version of it. How do you guys deal with aggro decks? I am having a lot of issues where I just get run over before I can stabilize in game 1 and have some issues post board. I'm thinking about running 2 Languish and/or Damnations right now.
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Jul 13, 2015 21:46
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AlternateNu posted:Yeah. I realized he wrote "tix" in there, but then compares it to his LGS stock with is confusing as hell. mtgo trends are often good predictors of future trends in paper, so its not a crazy leap or anything.
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Jul 13, 2015 21:46
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netcat posted:The sorcery with flash thing is weird since to me it seems like having two distinct card types is a much cleaner solution than tacking on an extra word on every single card that would represent an instant and it also let's you do stuff like Dispel without really convoluted rules texts. I forgot that instead of a flash keyword (which is a bit awkward) they'd make instant a supertype that can modify any spell. So instead of creature spells with flash, you'd just have instant creatures. Dispel would just change to "counter target instant sorcery" which sounds clunky to us, but would probably feel pretty natural in this alternate universe. It's a moot point either way.
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Jul 13, 2015 22:01
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whydirt posted:I forgot that instead of a flash keyword (which is a bit awkward) they'd make instant a supertype that can modify any spell. So instead of creature spells with flash, you'd just have instant creatures. Dispel would just change to "counter target instant sorcery" which sounds clunky to us, but would probably feel pretty natural in this alternate universe. It just wouldn't do what it does right now or not exist. Just like how there isn't a card that exists which says "Counter target creature with Flash." There's no reason the exact same cards have to exist in a game that's theoretically different ruleswise.
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Jul 13, 2015 22:08
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Thisuck posted:I recall some goons were talking about playing the Modern Grixis control deck earlier. LSV just released his version of it. How do you guys deal with aggro decks? I am having a lot of issues where I just get run over before I can stabilize in game 1 and have some issues post board. I'm thinking about running 2 Languish and/or Damnations right now. You deal with it game one by hoping you get a fast hand and keep drawing into fast stuff.
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Jul 13, 2015 22:13
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Thisuck posted:I recall some goons were talking about playing the Modern Grixis control deck earlier. LSV just released his version of it. How do you guys deal with aggro decks? I am having a lot of issues where I just get run over before I can stabilize in game 1 and have some issues post board. I'm thinking about running 2 Languish and/or Damnations right now. Which aggro decks are you talking about. The worst matchups are the Collected Company decks.
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Jul 13, 2015 22:14
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whydirt posted:I forgot that instead of a flash keyword (which is a bit awkward) they'd make instant a supertype that can modify any spell. So instead of creature spells with flash, you'd just have instant creatures. Dispel would just change to "counter target instant sorcery" which sounds clunky to us, but would probably feel pretty natural in this alternate universe. The comparison is Negate; "Counter target noncreature spell" would sound clunky in said alternate universe where we're all used to it saying "Counter target sorcery", though I guess it's technically different because of planeswalkers.
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Jul 13, 2015 22:32
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Allstone posted:The comparison is Negate; "Counter target noncreature spell" would sound clunky in said alternate universe where we're all used to it saying "Counter target sorcery", though I guess it's technically different because of planeswalkers. And artifacts, and enchantments. There's lots of noncreature spells!
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Jul 13, 2015 22:36
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mcmagic posted:Which aggro decks are you talking about. The worst matchups are the Collected Company decks. I have more problems with goblin/burn red decks and Zoo decks. I board in more Dispels vs CoCo and that actually works really well.
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Jul 13, 2015 22:39
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mcmagic posted:There isn't a standard elf deck the power level isn't there. Yeah, but you are so consistently wrong about everything that I'll just assume this means Elves is tier 1.
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Jul 13, 2015 22:43
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Man mtgfinance is weird. Apparently kaalia of the vast is at $33 tcg mid (this came up in a random irc discussion about what's still worth money in DGM)
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Jul 13, 2015 22:44
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Zoness posted:Man mtgfinance is weird. Apparently kaalia of the vast is at $33 tcg mid (this came up in a random irc discussion about what's still worth money in DGM) Edh ruins everything
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Jul 13, 2015 22:49
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cheetah7071 posted:And artifacts, and enchantments. There's lots of noncreature spells!
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Jul 13, 2015 22:52
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Yeah my bad I forget how good Negate is sometimes
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Jul 13, 2015 22:54
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Thisuck posted:I have more problems with goblin/burn red decks and Zoo decks. I board in more Dispels vs CoCo and that actually works really well. Burn is a 55-45 matchup in my experience. If they have the nuts they win but otherwise I feel pretty good about it. Spell Snare is just awesome against them and then in G2 you can board out the commands for more dispell's and that usually is enough to get there. The bigger zoo decks are rough, I was playing Anger of the Gods out of the board but damnation might be just better as Smiter can be a pain in the rear end.
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Jul 13, 2015 23:00
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Ciprian Maricon posted:mtgo trends are often good predictors of future trends in paper, so its not a crazy leap or anything. No, I can see where I confused Nu. What I was trying to convey was that packs are still available online (and at your flgs for paper) and prices are already rebounding back towards what they were pre-MM15 release. Not nearly as pronounced a swing in paper (as our good friend AlternateNu pointed out) as there has been online but still a small change even there. I think maybe the $10 retail price is keeping ppl from continuing to crack packs and direct pricing this way.
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Jul 13, 2015 23:47
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Keep your chin up kcw
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Jul 14, 2015 00:25
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So Magic Duels server seems to have poo poo the bed. First it wasn't updating the daily cap on free coins you can earn and now I can't connect to it at all. Maybe other people are having better luck?
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Jul 14, 2015 00:50
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On: MaRo My only observation of the man has been his linked Tumblr posts and when watching PT Dragons top 8 and hearing him like a nutter about the set design. He seemed thoroughly unpleasant as a person and a lot like comic book writer Geoff Johns, who I greatly dislike. His reasoning for not liking the Legend rule is as bad as that time I was linked to someones ramblings about how FNM needs to give prizes to the losers and not the winners
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Jul 14, 2015 00:52
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Nah Maro is chill and overall good at his job. His podcasts are actually pretty informative about how Magic is made and game design in general. I do wish he would hand the reigns over to some new blood in the next couple years and stayed on as a regular designer just to make the transition more smooth. He's just kind of goofy and has a funny voice.
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Jul 14, 2015 00:56
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Anyone know when those SDCC promo cards go on sale at hasbro's online store? Or what the best place is to look to see when that happens? Twitter?
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Jul 14, 2015 01:03
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Onmi posted:On: MaRo How dare you hate glorious designed MaRo.   But seriously MaRo has been the most influential designer since Garfield himself and Magic just wouldn't be the same with out him; he is the man with all the ideas.
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Jul 14, 2015 01:07
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A few things to realize about Maro: 1. Yeah, he's pretty much the most influential person on the entire game right now. 2. He's really loving excitable about it too. Like that's not just PR, he really, really loves the game. 3. He's also super passionate about it and his visions for it. Thank god for the development, they get the job of beating sense into him and the design team in general. 4. He's not a bad person, just a talkative one that not everyone agrees with as far as Magic and its future is concerned. And honestly, he's been the one working on the game for the past decade, I think he knows a lot more about how to make it work than, say, me.
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Jul 14, 2015 01:18
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Also a lot of problems people have with sets, like individual and overall card power levels, generally comes from development. Maro openly admits that he's not great at identifying power level, which is why he sticks to figuring out new things to do.
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Jul 14, 2015 01:20
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To rationalize MaRo's ideas, as someone who doesn't like what he does most of the time (any more), it's essentially his job to throw things out there and see if they stick. To do that he really does need to think about things in weird constructs. Also with regards to abstract design concepts he's like, really weird about expressing them in a way that's useful to others. He's not great on consistency - see how pongify is a polymorph but beast within isn't in MaRovision. He tends to compartmentalize to what's probably excessive but I imagine it also helps him come up with new ideas so v v.I think it's bad that he's both a front man and designer but he can certainly wear one of those hats at a time and make it kind of work, sure. Zoness fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Jul 14, 2015 |
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Jul 14, 2015 01:23
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Dohaeris posted:Anyone know when those SDCC promo cards go on sale at hasbro's online store? Or what the best place is to look to see when that happens? Twitter? The last set of them went up on a random weekday at like 10AM EST so who loving knows, unfortunately.
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Jul 14, 2015 01:31
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Is defender of melentis (that's the 3 drop 0/6 right?) a potential include against mono red for my mill deck? All about stalling. Or is that just better to be removal? Scab-clan berserker (i.e. mini Eidolon of the Great Revel) is a huge rear end in a top hat. And that's lovely. I guess I'll follow the MTG twitter or something.
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Jul 14, 2015 01:49
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Dohaeris posted:Is defender of melentis (that's the 3 drop 0/6 right?) a potential include against mono red for my mill deck? All about stalling. Or is that just better to be removal? Scab-clan berserker (i.e. mini Eidolon of the Great Revel) is a huge rear end in a top hat. I would personally lean towards something like Custodian of the Trove if you're doing that. It comes in tapped and is vulnerable to roast, but it has two power, which makes it capable of eating chumps, which is very important in a defender.
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Jul 14, 2015 02:04
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Count Bleck posted:The last set of them went up on a random weekday at like 10AM EST so who loving knows, unfortunately. Where do they get posted exactly? Is it here: http://www.hasbrotoyshop.com/products/category/exclusives ?
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Jul 14, 2015 02:13
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They get posted on that website, yes. Where exactly I can't remember.
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Jul 14, 2015 02:14
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Ramos posted:A few things to realize about Maro: Yup basically. The thing I think people miss is that, at this point, he is concentrating on things beyond the set by set level. Like the overall balance of color roles and judicious allocation of design space. Within blocks or sets, it seems he concentrates on the texture of the set and the emotional response he wants the audience to have while playing, and not really particular cards. Especially since as people have mentioned, what cards are going to be powerful or weak is entirely in the hands of development.
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Jul 14, 2015 02:32
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Love him or hate him, Maro is responsible for some of the greatest innovations in Magic history and is largely responsible for the years of steady solid growth the game has had. Hybrid mana, double-faced cards, split cards, that's all him. He didn't come up with the Ravnica guild structure or Planeswalkers but he pushed both ideas very hard in the face of stiff opposition. The entirety of Time Spiral block which is basically a love letter to Magic set design was his baby. He's a lot more conservative than he used to be, probably because he's more senior and has to look more big-picture, but he's still incredibly innovative. The fact that he's a goony little goblin with a squeaky voice is endearing and silly but Maro has been a net positive for the game.
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Jul 14, 2015 02:39
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