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Cheap Shot posted:It's hard to explain what it has... you'll have to make your own judgments really. Might work if you're not turned off by the sex moves. It's fairly easy to replace them if needed. Probably a good idea, too, if anyone wants to RP little kids. Things could get reaaaallllyyy weeeiiirrrdd.
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Jun 25, 2015 19:35
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RSIxidor posted:It's fairly easy to replace them if needed. Probably a good idea, too, if anyone wants to RP little kids. Things could get reaaaallllyyy weeeiiirrrdd. The biggest problem with Apocalypse World is that someone thought "sex moves" sounded like a good idea. Also, that they should try to sound like a parody of a hardass biker while explaining the rules to the game.
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Jun 26, 2015 00:09
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I think the sex moves are a pretty neat idea 
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Jun 26, 2015 00:30
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Yeah I think my friends are great people, guys and gals both, but I don't really want to be GMing the table where two players are loving each other for XP. Sex moves, like sex anything, can work in some groups and environments, but do not work universally across all tables. Whereas we, as a culture, are generally perfectly fine with a bit of the old ultraviolence. Thats probably why I like game systems that subvert that (Unknown Armies, Ryuutama) and make violence "special". Still, 9 times out of 10 I'd rather deal with peoples hangups (or lack thereof) over violence, and not deal with whatever weird sex poo poo. Lastly, I think of this KCGreen gunshow comic whenever anyone says "Dungeon World sex moves" 
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Jun 26, 2015 15:22
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Evil Mastermind posted:So I wanted to ask people in both threads... I think megathreads need a shake-up every now and again. I'm in favour. I'm also in favour of keeping the big list of stuff in the OP, although I have no idea whether it would be better in the thread or on a wiki or something.
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Jun 26, 2015 15:54
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potatocubed posted:I think megathreads need a shake-up every now and again. I'm in favour. Covok already went ahead and did it without waiting for me to say I was gonna do it.  Although I think he did it as a thread-to-replace-the-other-threads, and instead made a thread for "everything that's not AW/DW". I think we'd be better off with one combined thread for everything, but  .
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Jun 26, 2015 16:00
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I feel like I'm the only person who prefers my DW thread separate... It probably doesn't help that I don't play AW/MotW/MH
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Jun 26, 2015 16:46
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I too would like to see this thread live on, not the least because of its awesome OP. I got into DW, and picked up most of my class collection based primarily on this thread's OP and discussions. Also, selfishly, for when I get around to finishing my Master playbook...
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Jul 13, 2015 00:44
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Handgun Phonics posted:The biggest problem with Apocalypse World is that someone thought "sex moves" sounded like a good idea. Also, that they should try to sound like a parody of a hardass biker while explaining the rules to the game. The only take on sex moves I kind of like is Urban Shadows "When you share an intimate moment..." moves since it's not just having sex to activate moves. You can do it on a hug or a kiss or even a heart to heart.
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Jul 13, 2015 10:45
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Handgun Phonics posted:The biggest problem with Apocalypse World is that someone thought "sex moves" sounded like a good idea. Also, that they should try to sound like a parody of a hardass biker while explaining the rules to the game. djw175 posted:The only take on sex moves I kind of like is Urban Shadows "When you share an intimate moment..." moves since it's not just having sex to activate moves. You can do it on a hug or a kiss or even a heart to heart. Is it that time again? Apparently it's that time again. I don't know what it is, but people just do not understand how the Special Moves in AW work. As soon as they see the word sex, they just immediately freak out. And even people who otherwise get the core PbtA concept immediately forget it. Fiction first. Fiction first. Fiction first. The Special Moves don't trigger off of having sex because they're trying to encourage it in the game. And if you have players who are hooking up in order to trigger the moves, they are objectively not abiding by the core tenets of the game. The Special Moves trigger off of having sex because in this genre, sex happens. The Special Moves trigger off that so that it's not just the usual RPG "I roll to pick up girls" poo poo. They' trigger off sex because it should, for most characters, have real narrative consequences. Look at the Operator's special. They live off their rep. How do you react to people who do wrong by their lovers, even if it's not a serious relationship? Look at the Driver's. They're all about the open road and mobility. Bedding down with someone risks tying them down. Even the Battlebabe's nullification special is about narrative. Obviously the characters wouldn't think in terms of how their move works, but as always, the moves are about fiction. The Hardholder's special is a way to connect their partners to themselves and the community they run. That they can't get that hold on the Battlebabe means something. There's this tendency to look at the Special Moves backwards, as being there to get players to hook up, as dumb bonuses for having sex. But there aren't any AW moves that are supposed to work that way. If you're worried about your players being creepy about sex, then maybe you shouldn't play AW with them. Because with or without the Special Moves, they are going to get creepy about the sex and violence in the game. That's the genre. Those things come up. If anything, the Special Moves at least put enough narrative weight on them to make you think about it a little. When your group decides bringing sex into the game narratively doesn't work for them, that's fine! The Special Moves just never trigger, the same way the Operator might make it the whole game without using Seize By Force, or the Gunlugger never stoops to Manipulating Someone - they do what needs doing, and gently caress you if you don't like it. Or the way a group with the Hardholder and no Driver might stick to a specific location much more closely, and your game just doesn't get into the travelogue, road warrior narrative so common in the genre. Not every AW game includes every possible narrative that AW supports. Now, as for the intimacy instead of sex "fix," there are several things additionally wrong with that way of thinking. For one, if you think players who are creepy about sex are going to be any less creepy about heart-to-hearts or kissing, you're almost certainly being naive. That doesn't mean making the change is bad. In fact, I made the change for an AW game I'm recruiting for right now. But it is a change. I did it as part of several thematic adjustments to emulate a very specific story. That a Special Move can trigger off different kinds of charged encounters changes the narrative weight of those encounters. It changes how players react to them. It changes how players approach encounters that might go in that direction. It definitely changes the arc of the game after those encounters. In the standard AW genre concept, characters have a lot of momentum. It takes a lot to shift them out of the paths they've set themselves on - it's one of the key heroic flaws for most characters in the genre. Special Moves triggering more often is going to change that. That can work for certain games, but you have to be cognizant of it. That Urban Shadows triggers its Special Moves off intimate moments is a direct consequence of that cognizance. That's how the genre it emulates works. Conversely, almost all moves in Monsterhearts are about intimate moments, or turning an encounter into an intimate moment, because that's how its genre works. If you really want to change the Special Moves away from sex but keep the same kind of narrative impact, you're going to need to limit them to extreme encounters. The best example is the transfusion scene in Fury Road. None of the other scenes in the film represent the same level of charged interaction the Special Moves are supposed to trigger off of. Comrade Gorbash fucked around with this message at 15:56 on Jul 13, 2015 |
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Jul 13, 2015 15:53
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Comrade Gorbash posted:Fiction first. Fiction first. Fiction first. This is the reason I don't run Dungeon World for my group anymore--I just could not get most of them to treat it this way. We played a campaign that lasted months and with the exception of two players who had never done any roleplaying before, or much video gaming for that matter, everyone treated moves as "special moves" they had to mention by name and would go out of their way to trigger them just so they could roll. As a result, Dungeon World just... broke, basically. It didn't work. The best part was when one of my players, who is obsessed with the math of roleplaying systems and powergaming for maximum efficiency, applied that type of thinking to Dungeon World. His experience with the system was really awkward as a result of that.
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Jul 13, 2015 16:04
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Harrow posted:This is the reason I don't run Dungeon World for my group anymore--I just could not get most of them to treat it this way. We played a campaign that lasted months and with the exception of two players who had never done any roleplaying before, or much video gaming for that matter, everyone treated moves as "special moves" they had to mention by name and would go out of their way to trigger them just so they could roll. As a result, Dungeon World just... broke, basically. It didn't work. I had this same thing happen and it was pretty frustrating at times and made narrating as a GM a bit harder, but it still works okay (other than great).
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Jul 13, 2015 16:20
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Evil Mastermind posted:Covok already went ahead and did it without waiting for me to say I was gonna do it. In fairness, I was going off what you said in the AW thread which made me think people wanted a place to talk about general PbtA that wasn't the AW thread. You know, less clutter in the AW and DW thread. I suppose I misinterpreted. Not like it can't be undone if that's what everyone wants. Harrow posted:This is the reason I don't run Dungeon World for my group anymore--I just could not get most of them to treat it this way. We played a campaign that lasted months and with the exception of two players who had never done any roleplaying before, or much video gaming for that matter, everyone treated moves as "special moves" they had to mention by name and would go out of their way to trigger them just so they could roll. As a result, Dungeon World just... broke, basically. It didn't work. Same thing happens to me whenever I run PbtA for any of my IRL people. I keep saying "just describe your action and, if it triggers a move, we'll resolve it," but they always seem to not get it. I've even tried explaining how that's how it should work and that things will flow better and be more fun for everyone and...nothing. Also, had that same experience with the math-heavy guy not getting DW. 'Cept he was the DM (and a good friend) who was willing to run the game because I asked if he could. Even with some advice, things came off awkward. To be fair, with him, I think it came from just not meshing with that playstyle which is fine. My roomate who tried to run it without reading the book and who had only had experience with 3.5, however...can only imagine.
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Jul 13, 2015 20:03
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Dungeon World is so easily broken mechanically that its almost comically pointless to do so. If you're running a fighter with access to Exterminatus and fighter's damage boost advances you may as well be doing infinite damage with your signature weapon and a declared enemy. This is either a complete and obvious failing of the system, or a reason to hold off armies of infinite wraiths while your wizard friend completes Agamar's Ritual of Irreversable Closure to lock them back in the wraith dimension where they belong.
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Jul 13, 2015 20:19
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EscortMission posted:a reason to hold off armies of infinite wraiths while your wizard friend completes Agamar's Ritual of Irreversable Closure to lock them back in the wraith dimension where they belong. Its this btw.
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Jul 13, 2015 20:23
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The fact that you can break it so easily is good because I can tell my players to do whatever the hell they want and their build will always be "viable". Other RPG's have a tendency of requiring the player to play a certain way, or else they're having bad wrongfun and encounters meant for their level are too difficult or they fall behind the other players and drag them down. In DW I could build a muscle wizard with STR as his primary stat and I didn't feel crippled.
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Jul 13, 2015 20:48
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Deltasquid posted:The fact that you can break it so easily is good because I can tell my players to do whatever the hell they want and their build will always be "viable". Other RPG's have a tendency of requiring the player to play a certain way, or else they're having bad wrongfun and encounters meant for their level are too difficult or they fall behind the other players and drag them down. In DW I could build a muscle wizard with STR as his primary stat and I didn't feel crippled. DW's ability to let me play a viable muscle wizard is one of the reasons I love it so much. It's versatility in the mechanics gives me the freedom to get away with pretty much any character concept as long as I can find the right kind of playbook. Or heck, If I'm desperate I can use that book with the playbook builder to make my own class.
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Jul 13, 2015 21:04
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Covok posted:In fairness, I was going off what you said in the AW thread which made me think people wanted a place to talk about general PbtA that wasn't the AW thread. You know, less clutter in the AW and DW thread. I suppose I misinterpreted. Not like it can't be undone if that's what everyone wants. quote:Same thing happens to me whenever I run PbtA for any of my IRL people. I keep saying "just describe your action and, if it triggers a move, we'll resolve it," but they always seem to not get it. I've even tried explaining how that's how it should work and that things will flow better and be more fun for everyone and...nothing.
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Jul 13, 2015 21:39
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I feel like even when played "wrongly" which I'm betting more than half of groups do, this system is still much more simple and fun than most others I've tried. I like that you can play it more like a traditional tabletop system and it still works fine. Of course the whole point of the system is missed entirely, but I'm of a mind that "whatever works for your group is how it should be played." No ones going to have fun if they feel like a different way of playing is being forced on them rather than introduced to them. I admire the flexibility to find those comfort zones. Also haha the AW sex moves. "Those are just there for if sex happens to take place. *wink* *nudge*" 
Cheap Shot fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Jul 13, 2015 |
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Jul 13, 2015 21:44
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Cheap Shot posted:Also haha the AW sex moves. "Those are just there for if sex happens to take place. *wink* *nudge*" Dammit, people, we have protocols for this kind of thing.
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Jul 13, 2015 21:51
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A good move has a trigger that encourages a person to describe their actions in certain ways (making each playbook's play style distinct) and they totally should serve as kind of inspiration or reminders. In a lot of ways, a good trigger is the soul of a Move. When I have players who really can't break that "your charsheet is a list of powers" habit, I tell them to only read the trigger. Some will never break the habit though.
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Jul 13, 2015 22:00
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Evil Mastermind posted:You're supposed to wait at least two pages since the last time they were brought up before you start that topic again. This page was already tainted.
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Jul 13, 2015 22:07
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Sex moves for Dungeon World 2015 Lets make out with a lich and have feelings
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Jul 13, 2015 22:34
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You joke but considering how much interparty dynamics are such a huge deal in RPG's, I'm sure some sort of "When you share a moment of intimacy" moves could work and be fitting. I'm talking about stuff like Legolas and Gimli's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFIPE1SFE_I moment. Though of course if the players are okay with the sorceress and the fighter hooking up, that'd work, too. The one big difference is that Dungeon World is designed out of the box to have the players cooperate, unlike Monsterhearts or Apocalypse World. There's no risk/reward involved with showing weakness to the other players, just rewards. Nothing would stop the players from being a big hugbox of people spilling emotional baggage at every campfire if it means carrying +1 forward. Or worse. 
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Jul 13, 2015 22:56
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Yeah on further consideration, I think I'm only half joking. I know One Ring has codified, mechanical benefits to telling stories around the campfire to keep everyone's spirits up, and one of your most important party roles to make sure you have covered is not cleric but cook, but I haven't actually looked into it.
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Jul 13, 2015 23:08
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EscortMission posted:Sex moves for Dungeon World 2015 Well, we are getting a Rat Queens RPG using Dungeon World. I don't think sex moves would be that out of place in Rat Queens. e: Then again, neither would "getting drunk" and "taking lots of drugs" moves...
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Jul 13, 2015 23:21
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Ratpick posted:Well, we are getting a Rat Queens RPG using Dungeon World. I don't think sex moves would be that out of place in Rat Queens. Debauchery Moves When you share a bonding moment with another as you both disrespect a law or common decency, roll +Bond.
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Jul 13, 2015 23:30
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EscortMission posted:Yeah on further consideration, I think I'm only half joking. In Fellowship, I believe healing requires you to eat a meal amongst friends.
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Jul 14, 2015 02:15
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Ratpick posted:Well, we are getting a Rat Queens RPG using Dungeon World. I don't think sex moves would be that out of place in Rat Queens. Rat Queens is already pretty much "Dungeon World: the Comic", so I'd say that's perfect.
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Jul 14, 2015 02:41
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Yo Dungeon World thread, I have a question. If I have a move like this: pre:Bash! (Str) When you fight with a blunt weapon, roll +Str. On a 10+, take 3 hold, on a 7-9, take one. Spend hold one-for-one when you strike an enemy to: Destroy their armour Stagger them giving an ally an opening and +1 Crush an internal organ, describe the effects
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Jul 14, 2015 13:51
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e X posted:Yo Dungeon World thread, I have a question. You're going to have to name the book, but it seems like something that you shouldn't be rolling every hack and slash, that you should be rolling like a druid shapechange. When you take a moment to get a REALLY GOOD grip on your blunt weapon,
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Jul 14, 2015 14:51
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Yeah, that's a good move, but the trigger needs to be tweaked. "When you bring the full force of your might down on an enemy, roll+STR..." Looking at it, I think it'd be better as a "choose 3/choose 1" instead of using hold, too.
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Jul 14, 2015 15:05
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Evil Mastermind posted:Yeah, that's a good move, but the trigger needs to be tweaked. You could also do it as a "when you hack & slash, on a 10+ and in lieu of dealing +1d6 damage, you can expose yourself to the enemy's attack and do one of the following:" if you want to fold it more directly in combat. Otherwise, yeah, Evil Mastermind is right: hold is generally for moves where you parcel out the effect over a length of time: standing in defense of something, figuring things out through conversation, etc. For this to work as a hold move it needs to be something like "when you psych yourself up to smash everything in sight..."
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Jul 14, 2015 15:22
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Glazius posted:You're going to have to name the book, but it seems like something that you shouldn't be rolling every hack and slash, that you should be rolling like a druid shapechange. When you take a moment to get a REALLY GOOD grip on your blunt weapon, The book is Fenarisk's Brute, as linked in the OP. And i like Evil Mastermind's idea. Choosing an effect really works better here than hold, since the move brings up the idea of one particular powerful attack instead of something you would prepare before hand.
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Jul 14, 2015 15:31
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Conceptually it sounds like it's mean to be rolled at the start of each battle, or the first time you pick up a blunt weapon in a fight, and then you spend the hold throughout. I don't know if that's a better way for it to work though.
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Jul 14, 2015 17:50
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e X posted:The book is Fenarisk's Brute, as linked in the OP. You can safely ignore any of my playbooks except the revised core classes and the pathfinder or whatever the Viking one was. The rest were done real early before I grasped the system better, so they're mostly garbage 
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Jul 15, 2015 17:07
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EscortMission posted:Dungeon World is so easily broken mechanically that its almost comically pointless to do so. Mechanically, the Bard is the strongest class bar none. You look at bardic lore, it says that the bard can get the answer to "any one question" when they encounter a new thing. You think, huh, I suppose the Bard might be able to learn a thing. Pure knowledge extraction, right? Breaking the game because of the phrasing "any one question?" Really? Yes. loving hell yes. You show up at the gates of Heaven, the bard asks the question "Why is the left toe of the Divine Immortal Golem of Thrak its weak spot?" and the GM has to come up with a reason on the spot. You get thrown into a prison cell, the bard asks "How do we activate the hidden exit concealed in this cell?" and the GM has to come up with something. You finally meet the Followers of the Sacred Helm, a noble paladin order, and the bard asks "Which single part of this religion is not a hollow lie?" and the GM has to come up with something. The fighter might be able to kill any monster you throw at it. But the Bard can rewrite entire dungeons, entire religions, entire philosophies, entire campaigns, just by asking the right question. They don't even have to roll for it. They have the mechanical power of forcing truth into the gameworld. And all they have to do is come up with a convincing story for how they knew about it. That said, in almost all cases these bard questions make the world a richer, more interesting place. And all of these examples would require different bards. But the point still stands- if the bard is allowed into their element, they can break entire campaigns over their knee.
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Jul 16, 2015 14:32
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Somfin posted:You finally meet the Followers of the Sacred Helm, a noble paladin order, and the bard asks "Which single part of this religion is not a hollow lie?" and the GM has to come up with something. "The part that says all bards are wrong, all the time." At this point the bard simply explodes from the paradox he created.
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Jul 16, 2015 15:11
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Deltasquid posted:"The part that says all bards are wrong, all the time." A fitting end.
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Jul 16, 2015 15:20
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I try to give every playbook I write at least ONE Bard-style ability for that reason. I mean, my Dwarf class has an ability which basically everyone loves which involves describing how a place fits into the long and tragic history of the Dwarven people. This sort of thing is both characterful and useful.
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Jul 16, 2015 15:42
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