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Couldn't sum up that article in your own words?
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May 31, 2015 17:45
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It's really hard to take anything from Venezuelanalysis seriously because a lot of the articles are so bogged down in ideology that facts are secondary. It's basically Fox News. The article calls Rafael Isea and Leamsy Salazar - both of whom were heroes of the revolucion until not too long ago - "goons" and "sewer pipes". From heroes to literal piles of garbage in human form because they're not on our side now. It's infantile. Kurtofan posted:Couldn't sum up that article in your own words? "The United States is bad."
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May 31, 2015 18:12
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Chuck Boone posted:a lot of the articles are so bogged down in ideology that facts are secondary. That pretty much describes the Wall Street Journal. I do love the irony of the United States accusing another government of facilitating drug trafficking (via the time honored tactic of using anonymous government sources to spread disinformation beloved by "serious" news outlets diligently reprinting US propaganda) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Alliance
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May 31, 2015 18:26
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Borneo Jimmy posted:That pretty much describes the Wall Street Journal. Yeah and your sources are on the level of the WSJ
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May 31, 2015 18:27
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Jimmy, I admire your conviction but I don't want to engage with you here because I know you're an immovable object. Like I've said to you before, I'd be happy to talk about Venezuela with you through e-mail/PMs. One of the authors of the Wall Street Journal article, Juan Forero, gave an interview to La Razon today in which he talked a bit about the story. Here are some bits I translated: quote:La Razon: The government claims that this is part of a destabilization campaign and that you can't provide any evidence. Why don't you cite names? I think Forero's answer to the last question is important: the story is, basically, "United States authorities are investigating Cabello and others since they are suspected to be involved in the drug trade". That's it. You can believe in whatever conspiracy theory you want, you can hate the United States and everything it has ever done with every cell in your body, but that fact in and of itself is not unbelievable or inexplicable by any stretch of the imagination. This whole thing reminds of the Toronto Star story that broke the Rob Ford crack scandal a few years ago. When the original story came out, lots of people were absolutely convinced that the Toronto Star (which leans to the left) was trying to ruin Ford's career since he's a very conservative politician. I'm hearing a lot of the same things now that I heard back then: it's a media campaign to discredit him, it's an attack on the conservative movement, it's irresponsible to use anonymous sources, etc. I remember hearing quite a bit of anger towards journalism in general, and towards the journalists who wrote the article specifically because the idea was that they somehow had it in for ford. In the end, the allegations turned out to be true. The journalists weren't active agents (or pawns) in a media conspiracy against Ford. They had simply done their job.
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May 31, 2015 18:53
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Far leftists, like far rightists tend to see media reports as a grand propaganda struggle. Truth and falsehood are secondary at best to whether the story is for or against the personalities or concepts in question. " And you are lynching Negroes." Consequently arguing about the truth or falsehood of any given thing with an ideological extremist is a waste of time. Saying whether something bad happened is just a weapon, and weapons deployed against the Venezuelan regime must be met in kind with barbs about America. To state the obvious, Borneo and the like do not give the slightest poo poo about what is actually happening in Venezuela, they only care that Venezuela is ran by "friends" and set upon by "enemies." The more relevant follow-up is why do guys like him so rarely actually move to these ideological paradises they defend? There are probably lots of answers, but I suspect knowing in the back of their minds that it's all bullshit is one of the biggies. Which in turn reveals them as giant pieces of poo poo.
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May 31, 2015 19:11
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Chuck Boone posted:
With this many capitalists, roaders and running dogs, no wonder venezuela's economy sucks.
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May 31, 2015 19:31
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JeffersonClay posted:With this many capitalists, roaders and running dogs, no wonder venezuela's economy sucks. Someone earlier in the thread seriously wondered whether there was 'wrecking' going on. That's right, the Stalinist term for sabotage. Those dastardly fascists are deliberately destroying their own economy and their savings just to make Maduro look bad.
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May 31, 2015 21:06
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Borneo no one gives a gently caress and no one is reading your lovely propaganda. If Diosdado weren't involved in the drug trade he'd open upbhis persobal bank accounts to a independent investigation. His clear refusal to do so and the millions of dollars present overseas in swiss bank accounts belonging to him key officials that work under him demonstrate the kind of crook and thief he is and by extension you are by supporting him.
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May 31, 2015 21:29
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Chuck Boone posted:There were demonstrations yesterday in several cities across the country. Leopoldo Lopez called from them in a video he recorded last week. There was some controversy earlier this week because the Mesa de la Unidad Democratica (MUD), the largest opposition bloc, said that they wouldn't be able to participate in the demonstrations officially due to "logistical" reasons. There was some indignation from opposition supporters about this perceived lack of cohesion and solidarity. It's important to point out for those interested in the situation, that though this may have been the only countrywide organized protest in since last year, that doesn't mean people aren't protesting daily everywhere. There's very real repression going on constantly all over the place: today for example thugs from the PSUV with long weaponry broke into a community council meeting in San Cristobal to disband a meeting and the National Guard broke a protest of renal patients and doctors in Caracas (because there's no medicine available to treat them). For all the publicity that scarce foodstuff gets, it's surprising there's so little coverage of the altogether more advanced and critical shortage of medicine in the country. Most hospitals are all but bare and that goes from the big private clinics to the small public hospitals on top of the exodus of doctors from the country. On top of that, it bears to be mentioned that there were to my knowledge only a couple of instances of detentions and physical abuses perpetrated by the police, which goes to show that violence only erupts when they choose to repress protests. This time the government tried a different tactic by flexing their media muscle and trying to convince themselves that only a couple thousand people attented all over the country. What we saw was a major outpour of tired protesters all over the country just through a simple video recorded from a jail cell, even though it was disavowed by the coalition of opposition parties, who were quick to qualify the concentrations as a success after they saw how massive they were. The only recent good news I can think of is that polls are showing that approximately 80% of voters are willing to participate in the parliamentary elections, which all but guarantees an absolute defeat for the PSUV if the opposition manages to overcome it's internal issues and the PSUV/government finally settles a date. Labradoodle fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Jun 1, 2015 |
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Jun 1, 2015 19:28
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Here's Miguel Otero, editor-in-chief of El Nacional and card-carrying member of the "hegemonic Venezuelan media" talking to Globo about how the newspaper has been faring in the media war against the government: quote:Globo: Is El Nacional at risk of closing due to persecution and the lack of printing paper? The newspaper's struggle to stay afloat is well document, as is that of other publications. Newspapers have been struggling to ensure they receive the paper shipments they need to print. To cope, newspapers have even been forced to reduce the number of pages they print per edition. Otero is also one of 22 individuals Diosdado Cabello is suing for publishing reports that he is under investigation by U.S. authorities for drug trafficking. Labradoodle posted:It's important to point out for those interested in the situation, that though this may have been the only countrywide organized protest in since last year, that doesn't mean people aren't protesting daily everywhere. There's very real repression going on constantly all over the place: today for example thugs from the PSUV with long weaponry broke into a community council meeting in San Cristobal to disband a meeting and the National Guard broke a protest of renal patients and doctors in Caracas (because there's no medicine available to treat them). You can break through the thickest wall by slowly chipping away at it day by day. This is a great example of the (unfortunately) ordinary way in which democracy is undermined without resorting to ballot-box stuffing or outlawing opposition parties. I've recently started to read a book called "Competitive Authoritarianism: Hybrid Regimes After the Cold War" by Steven Levitsky and Lucan Way. The book focuses mostly on former Soviet republics, and measures how these regimes exhibit varying degrees of what the authors call "competitive authoritarianism"; that is, characteristics of both democracy and authoritarianism. On how the free press looks in such a regime, the authors write (emphasis mine, pages 8-9): quote:In competitive authoritarian regimes, civil liberties are nominally guaranteed and at least partially respected. Independent media exist and civic opposition groups operate above ground: Most of the time, they can meet freely and even protest against the government. Yet, civil liberties are frequently violated. Opposition politicians, independent judges, journalists, human-rights activists, and other government critics are subject to harassment, arrest, and - in some cases - violent attack. Independent media are frequently threatened, attacked, and - in some cases - suspended or closed (...) Although the focus of the authors' study did not include Venezuela, they do include it in the list of competitive authoritarian regimes in the world to emerge after 1989. There are lots of very fitting parallels between the countries the authors focused on and the situation in Venezuela.
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Jun 2, 2015 02:51
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I don't understand how it's even possible to have shortages of things like paper. It is really bizarre when you think about it, as in many Latin American countries the government barely has control over its own territory and large parts of the country are ruled by urban gangs or local caudillos, yet they're somehow still mismanaging the economy East Bloc-style. Venezuela has all the drawbacks of a planned economy without even experiencing the relative stability and safety that come from strong state control.
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Jun 2, 2015 07:08
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Jun 2, 2015 07:37
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Phlegmish posted:I don't understand how it's even possible to have shortages of things like paper. It is really bizarre when you think about it, as in many Latin American countries the government barely has control over its own territory and large parts of the country are ruled by urban gangs or local caudillos, yet they're somehow still mismanaging the economy East Bloc-style. Venezuela has all the drawbacks of a planned economy without even experiencing the relative stability and safety that come from strong state control. Venezuela really isn't a planned economy though, for the most part private industry is still the norm, the issue though is imports and price controls. More or less while prices controlled to resemble one theoretical price, the reality of costs is another one. I suspect production in many industries declined because they weren't profitable. In a Soviet/Eastern bloc system, the government controls everything and sets quotas and while supply can decline and shortages happen, the government will keep factories running if it can. In Venezuela, this doesn't seem to be the case. In addition, industries rely on imports on foreign products which cost hard currency, and while the government subsidizes it to some extent ultimately it doesn't have enough reserves to supply the entire economy and if anything it has been so reliant on imports it has sapped any capital they have accrued from the oil industry. The question is how you "unfix it" especially since the government has been printing money as reserves have dwindled. The fall in the Bolivar is quite real. You can simply stop printing money but then there is a question of revenue and you can stop price controls but then it becomes a question of affordability versus supply. I haven't seen a easy answer.
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Jun 2, 2015 10:40
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Phlegmish posted:I don't understand how it's even possible to have shortages of things like paper. In Venezuela, the shortage of newsprint appears to have two causes: 1) The inability of newspapers to access foreign currency in a manner effective enough to allow them to import the paper on time (which is the same phenomenon affecting virtually every industry) and 2) the government's unwillingness to do anything to address 1), likely as a tactic to punish critical publications. I'm posting from my phone so I will update with sources later, but a common complaint I've ever over the last year or so from newspapers like El Nacional, El Impulso and El Universal is that their requests to exchange currency through the government have been denied, or that money that has been approved for importing newsprint has simply failed to materialize. A great example of the government's stance towards the paper issue is when they held up a shipment of newsprint a Colombian newspaper sent to Venezuela last year in a gesture of solidarity. The paper, which was loaded onto a truck(s?), was held up at the border for some time for no apparent legitimate reason. Imagine you are a member of the "hegemonic media" and you run a newspaper. The people with 100% control over whether or not you get the paper you need to stay afloat are the same ones you criticize every day. You either criticize away and pray your paper keeps coming (and we see that this isn't happening), or you stop criticizing. How else could that relationship play out?
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Jun 2, 2015 12:43
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There are now TP shortages in Venezuela. Of course, not a lot of people want to go to Venezuela in the first place, given how annoying it is to pay for anything and given how likely you are to be murdered/robbed. Another source of foreign currency that's being strangled by the government. Venezuela's economy is well on it's way to being as useful and effective as North Korea's.
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Jul 12, 2015 03:19
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Some interesting developments http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2015/7/us-venezuela-detente-still-going--for-now.html quote:
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Jul 12, 2015 04:23
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-Troika- posted:There are now TP shortages in Venezuela. This sounds funny, but to my dad this is no joke. He bought several packs of toilet paper and stuffed them in his luggage when he went back to Venezuela after visiting the US this summer.
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Jul 12, 2015 05:21
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Borneo Jimmy posted:Some interesting developments Not sure what's interesting, apart from the propaganda which we now allow Qataris to publish in America. We want independent monitors in Venezuela, and are willing to offer public relations carrots to get them. We don't trust that Venezuela will have free and fair elections, nor do we trust that current Venezuelan leadership is willing to peacefully transition power were they to lose it. Illegal Venezuelan exports, whether they be drugs, arms, or people, already finance terrorist organizations throughout Africa and the Mideast, and what is in America's interest is that Venezuela does not continue down its present course towards becoming the Syria of South America. Call me when Venezuela accepts independent monitoring of election results and America offers up something of substance to the government of venezuela, apart from pr concessions which benefit venezuelan political objectives. The last line, "it won’t be surprising if there are attempts to destroy the White House’s détente initiative that involve conflict over the upcoming elections," when read without the priming of the previous paragraphs, is correct in that America will not abide a failed state just off its southern coast, and that the state department will press government of venezuela for peaceful transition of power, a transition which American institutions at this time do not believe as likely to occur.
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Jul 12, 2015 06:42
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BTW Fusion is a blatant propaganda outlet run by rabid right wing tycoon Haim Saban, just take a look at the staff they have http://abcnews.go.com/ABC_Univision/Entertainment/univision-reporter-mariana-atencios-shoe-diary/story?id=17369666 quote:Univision News reporter Mariana Atencio was born and raised in Caracas, Venezuela. Besides the typical Disney trip that many Latin American families venture to, she had not spent much time in the States before attending tennis summer camp at age seven. That's when her father sent Mariana and her siblings to Camp Lincoln and Camp Hubert Tennis Camp in Brainerd, Minnesota for four consecutive years. "It seemed like the end of the world," she says, with a laugh. Borneo Jimmy fucked around with this message at 07:04 on Jul 12, 2015 |
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Jul 12, 2015 06:59
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Borneo Jimmy posted:BTW Fusion is blatant right wing propaganda, just take a look at the staff they have Once again, Jimmy, you refuse to judge an individual by the content of their character, preferring to slander someone you haven't read for having been born into a middle-class family. its posts like yours which do not engender faith in a peaceful transition of power in Venezuela.
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Jul 12, 2015 07:01
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The situation in the country has continued to deteriorate since the thread was last active. A brief overview: 1) Scarcity of basic necessities continues unabated. Several industries (most notable milk producers, wheat producers and Polar, a huge food manufacturer in the country) have said repeatedly that they lack the raw materials necessary to produce food because they don't have the money to import them. The end result is what we've been seeing for (depending on where you are in the country) months and years. This is a video taken outside a supermarket called Yuan Lin in Merida state yesterday showing hundreds of people lined up hoping to be able to buy food: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNJyB7570ss This video taken three days ago shows a crowd of people fighting over food after being in line for hours as a Mercal in Margarita: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5qb7AoQ4Zg This a video taken inside a supermarket (likely a state-owned one, although the woman recording doesn't say) taken in May showing the extent of the scarcity. Note the not-so-subtle tactic of facing on kind of product (i.e., cooking oil) the length of an entire aisle to give the impression of abundance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uzhd0u6xCF4 Scarcity is caused not only by an industry's inability to gain access to the dollars it needs to import raw materials and products, but also by gross mismanagement of resources. For example, an inspection by the National Federation of Potato Producers and Growers of Venezuela on a seed silo in Merida state on Wednesday found 175,000 tonnes of spoiled potato seeds. The silos are administered by the Servicio Nacional de Semillas [National Seed Service], which is part of the Ministry of Agriculture and Land. 2) Inflation continues to be quite likely the highest in the world, although no one is sure. This is because the Banco Central de Venezuela has not published inflation numbers in six months, even though they are required to do so every three months according to their own guidelines. The Central Bank has not been releasing inflation numbers because ________________. Economists and financial organizations both inside and outside the country suggest that the rate is heading for the 200% mark, and most estimates I've seen of where it is currently put it around 120-140%. 3) Both the MUD and the PSUV held primaries recently in preparation for the December 6 parliamentary elections. The PSUV was ecstatic because their turnout was somewhere in the three million mark while the MUD's was much, much lower. The PSUV requested that the Consejo Nacional Electoral extend voting hours three times throughout the day. Polls were supposed to close at 6:00 PM but ended up closing at 10:00. 4) Venezuela and Guyana have been feuding in recent weeks over the Essequibo region. Both countries claim it, but Guayana gave ExxonMobil the go-ahead to do some offshore drilling and Venezuela took it as a grave insult. The issue over the Essequibo is quite complex, but the jist of it is that the region was given to Guyana by an arbitrator in 1899 and Venezuela never really recognized the ruling. In 1966, the Geneva Agreement laid the groundwork for a Buen Oficiante [which I think means "arbitrator"] to examine the facts and help the two parties reach an agreement. The last Buen Oficiante died last year, so Venezuela formally requested that the UN appoint a new one on Friday. 5) There was severe flooding in the country's southwestern region starting a few weeks ago, and the emergency response left a lot to be desired. There were widespread reports of National Guard soldiers selling humanitarian aid to affected residents. Here's a video of an exchange between a local politician from Guasdualito, Apure state and a National Guard officer who was overseeing the selling of humanitarian aid, along with my translation below: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ly7CRevkzag quote:Man in Purple: Split it in half and [inaudible] Bs. 500. Not everyone carries Bs. 1,000, first of all, because there’s no cash. So, if you don’t have Bs. 500, you won’t be able to eat? At least cut it in half – half for you, half for you, half for you — EDIT: Typo. Chuck Boone fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Jul 12, 2015 |
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Jul 12, 2015 15:12
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If the Venezuelan government is communicating with the US government, does that mean the PSUV are all fascist CIA plants too? "Once received money from a source that also funded something the US wanted" or "once talked to an American" are the sort of "evidence" used to discredit the opposition, after all.
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Jul 12, 2015 16:27
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Venezuela has settled into a pattern where every few months they throw a fit about some perceived aggression by the United States, call them every name under the sun, and then later praise "a new era of relations" between the two countries. It was just a few months ago that the PSUV claims to have collected 10 million signatures calling for Obama to repeal the sanctions against seven Venezuelan officials suspected of being involved in human rights violations. Caracas even held air raid drills in preparation for the imminent U.S. invasion. It's a smokescreen. This rapprochement (if you can call it that) is part of a cycle. Given the highly unstable political situation in the country, I'm sure that in a few months the cycle will repeat.
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Jul 12, 2015 16:36
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Borneo Jimmy posted:BTW Fusion is a blatant propaganda outlet run by rabid right wing tycoon Haim Saban, just take a look at the staff they have Thats the rabid right wing tycoon who's a registered Democrat and only financially supports Democrats, right? I mean he's pro-Israeli but thats sadly different form right and left wing in this country.
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Jul 12, 2015 19:29
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Chuck Boone posted:Scarcity is caused not only by an industry's inability to gain access to the dollars it needs to import raw materials and products, but also my gross mismanagement of resources. For example, an inspection by the National Federation of Potato Producers and Growers of Venezuela on a seed silo in Merida state on Wednesday found 175,000 tonnes of spoiled potato seeds. The silos are administered by the Servicio Nacional de Semillas [National Seed Service], which is part of the Ministry of Agriculture and Land.  internal saboteur spotted but seriously, thank you for the updates.
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Jul 12, 2015 20:09
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Mans posted:
Haha, that's an awesome typo. Thanks for pointing it out. And I guess Maduro's right: it is a far-reaching international conspiracy! And no problem. I see that interest in the thread has died down, but things are going to start heating up soon as we get closer to the December 6 parliamentary elections. The PSUV has probably never been as unpopular as it is today, and neither has its leader. FEDECAMARAS, which is the largest group that represents private industry in the country, said on Friday that if immediate action was taken to fix the economy (re: examine price controls, currency exchange controls, etc.) then the scarcity crisis could be resolved in as early as 8-12 months. Barring that, it looks as if the situation is not going to get any better before December, which is bad news for the incumbents.
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Jul 12, 2015 20:36
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quote:3) Both the MUD and the PSUV held primaries recently in preparation for the December 6 parliamentary elections. The PSUV was ecstatic because their turnout was somewhere in the three million mark while the MUD's was much, much lower. The PSUV requested that the Consejo Nacional Electoral extend voting hours three times throughout the day. Polls were supposed to close at 6:00 PM but ended up closing at 10:00.
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Jul 12, 2015 20:39
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Cicero posted:So because everyone hates them right now, there's a lot more primary interest in the PSUV? How does that work? Normally passive supporters and associates see that 'their' party is in trouble and try to get back into the party mechanisms so that they can fix whatever they think the problem is.
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Jul 12, 2015 20:51
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Cicero posted:So because everyone hates them right now, there's a lot more primary interest in the PSUV? How does that work? My own reading of it is that what happened was that the PSUV saw anemic turnouts at voting places to start off the day. By the early afternoon, the PSUV flipped the "panic" button, and the get-out-the-vote machinery got notched up to 11. The PSUV asking the CNE to extend voting hours three times (from 6:00 PM to 8:00; from 8:00 to 9:00; finally, from 9:00 to 10:00) gave the party the time it needed to push as many people as they needed into voting centres. The day started off slow, specially in Caracas. For example, the electoral centre located at the Escuela Leoncio Martinez in El Guarataro saw 502 people vote by 1:00 PM out of a total 4,845 electors. In Altagracia, 1,142 people had voted by 2:00 PM out of a total 15,242 electors. I think the less-than-ideal turnout forced the PSUV's hand. When Maduro voted in Caracas shortly after 1:00 PM, he told reporters: quote:We will have access to the list of the people who voted. We are going to exercise that right. There is, as you know, an electoral registry of everyone who participates in this process. We have that advantage. We know who votes and who doesn’t. It's not too much of a stretch to suggest that after the President of the Republic said on live television that the PSUV would know who voted and who didn't, anyone sitting at home thinking of abstaining would have had a second thought. I can't remember which PSUV official said it (it might have been Aristobulo Isturiz), but the day before the primary (or maybe that morning), he said that the December 6 parliamentary election would be won or lost that day at the PSUV primaries. The PSUV could not end the day with fewer voters than the MUD had during their primaries. There is no way that they would have let that happen, and I think we're seeing evidence of that. Chuck Boone fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Jul 13, 2015 |
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Jul 12, 2015 21:26
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Chuck Boone posted:This a video taken inside a supermarket (likely a state-owned one, although the woman recording doesn't say) taken in May showing the extent of the scarcity. Note the not-so-subtle tactic of facing on kind of product (i.e., cooking oil) the length of an entire aisle to give the impression of abundance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uzhd0u6xCF4 Jesus gently caress. Chuck Boone posted:3) Both the MUD and the PSUV held primaries recently in preparation for the December 6 parliamentary elections. The PSUV was ecstatic because their turnout was somewhere in the three million mark while the MUD's was much, much lower. The PSUV requested that the Consejo Nacional Electoral extend voting hours three times throughout the day. Polls were supposed to close at 6:00 PM but ended up closing at 10:00. Why the hell aren't people turning out? Is the left really that delusional while the center and right are that apathetic?
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Jul 14, 2015 06:09
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Look at the quote above -- Maduro says to anyone who's listening that there will be consequences for those who don't vote for PSUV. This is the culmination of 16 years of rigging the system such that many people probably don't think it's worthwhile to vote. PSUV is currently at 25% support in polls. But somehow this is going to become a 59 to 41 victory when the "votes" are "counted" in December. The only outcome of voting against Maduro is possibly being targeted for loss of your job, your government benefits, or your access to the dwindling supply of rationed food. It's rational for people to avoid doing it and look at actually effective ways to remove this dictator from power.
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Jul 14, 2015 18:18
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B-b-but Jimmy Carter said...
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Jul 14, 2015 18:40
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But..but Colombian paramilitaries don't exist guys! http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Hundreds-Arrested-in-Venezuela-Crack-Down-on-Paramilitaries-20150714-0018.html quote:Venezuelan authorities say they have smashed four paramilitary groups in raids nationwide. Over 100 suspected paramilitaries were detained in Venezuela Monday, after state security forces launched a massive early morning raid in Caracas. Footage broadcast by Venezuelan media showed security forces surrounding the suspected paramilitary site outside the city center, while helicopters flew overhead. Fourteen were killed in the raid, after a number of suspects opened fire on security forces, according to Interior Minister Gustavo Gonzalez. RELATED: Maduro Talks to teleSUR Gonzalez said the alleged paramilitaries were involved in extortion activities, but were also heavy armed. According to the minister, the group had links to paramilitaries in Colombia. At least 14 firearms were seized, along with 20 vehicles authorities say were used in extortion runs. A total of 134 suspects were detained, with some believed to be foreigners. At least three other similar operations were carried out nationwide, primarily targeting armed groups accused of kidnapping and extortion. In a statement, the interior ministry said the raids were part of a broader crackdown on paramilitary activity. Gonzalez praised the work of security forces, and urged ordinary Venezuelans to help the government track down and apprehend members of paramilitary groups. “We need your support to reach these evil organizations that want to destroy everything beautiful we have built,” he said.
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Jul 14, 2015 19:08
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I'm posting from my phone at work, but there are a couple of things to be said about the primary/election process in general. One thing to keep in mind is that while only MUD members could vote in their primaries, the PSUV primaries were open to every elector. The Minister of the Interior did go on television yesterday and say that they were going after some criminal groups with "direct links to Colombian paramilitaries" but so far there has been no evidence to back that up. We have only his word.
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Jul 14, 2015 19:28
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Chuck Boone posted:I'm posting from my phone at work, but there are a couple of things to be said about the primary/election process in general. One thing to keep in mind is that while only MUD members could vote in their primaries, the PSUV primaries were open to every elector. What's the alternative? That they faked the gunfight? Or maybe that they picked a fight with some random drug traffickers and then claimed they were Paramilitaries from Columbia? The PSUV doesn't come off like they would be above twisting the facts on a question like this but I assume that if the media was broadcasting images of a government raid and exchanges of gunfire then obviously something went down.
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Jul 14, 2015 19:50
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Yeah it turns out that after a decade of Chavez collaborating with FARC and funding left-wing insurgencies across Latin America, the region was destabilized somehow. Oh well, must have been the CIA.
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Jul 14, 2015 20:07
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Yeah the whole region was an island of sunshine and happiness until Chavez appeared on the scene.
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Jul 14, 2015 20:12
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M. Discordia posted:Yeah it turns out that after a decade of Chavez collaborating with FARC Any evidence for this other than those hilariously faked emails that the media fell for?
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Jul 14, 2015 20:15
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| # ? Jun 7, 2024 22:59 |
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I have no doubt that there was a security operation in the Cota 905 area of Caracas yesterday, as the article Jimmy posted reports, or that there were deaths, arrests, and that weapons were found in the area. But Caracas is one of the most dangerous cities in the world. Something like This isn't the first time the government has claimed that there were Colombian agents in the country. They government has never provided any kind of conclusive evidence to to support these claims. If the options are "the police fought street criminals" and "the police fought Colombian paramilitaries", I'm picking street criminals, specially since there is no evidence to the latter claim. Chuck Boone fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Jul 14, 2015 |
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Jul 14, 2015 21:14
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