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SirPhoebos posted:This is partly why I prefer to tank in MMOs (along with people being more willing to explain mechanics to you): you don't have to have any damage-meter e-peen contests with the rest of the raid. If you can answer "yes" to "is everyone hitting me in the face?" and "am I still alive despite that?", you're good to go! And Warrior is great because you can do that AND be smug as poo poo to yourself as you out-DPS most if not all of the DPS  Overall I think the status quo of "don't dickwave about parsers or talk about them in game" is good, though I wish they would add some kind of indicator to some fights, like on DPS checks you get a green light if you did excellent DPS, yellow if it was acceptable but barely, and red if you're behind, even if it's only visible to the player, but as this would add a thing to the UI, PS3 limitations I suppose. See also: why we aren't getting an agility tank with a stagger bar mechanic yet.
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Jul 14, 2015 18:53
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Fister Roboto posted:A couple days ago I did A3 through PF as a paladin. I was second in DPS on every pull, and only slightly behind the top DPS. The other tank was wearing full VIT gear and insisted that it made him the better tank. He usually lost aggro at the start of every pull. He never used cooldowns, not even sheltron, and would usually die on hand phase even with me soaking damage with him. When he died the healers yelled at me for not having enough HP. My A1 run this morning had a tank who wouldn't drag Oppressor over to the lasers, leading to two wipes, and when I suggested that he do so he said that he "shouldn't have to" because "this fight is easy." Unsurprisingly, we one-shot it after he left. v  v
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Jul 14, 2015 18:54
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bonewitch posted:He seemed to think he was sync'd to 50 too Jesus. I'm pretty sure the standard level 50 rotation is close to 1000dps at i170+? What was he doing??
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Jul 14, 2015 18:55
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Forward_Bee posted:I was in an exdr group with some BLM who said he couldn't figure out the new rotation. The solution to this, of course, was to just revert to the 50 rotation. I haven't parsed the new vs. old rotation but the old rotation can't be THAT bad DPS-wise compared to the new one, if I had to guess. Especially if you still use your new cooldowns. That being said, the new rotation isn't too hard. It's just more unforgiving if you have to move or mess up though. There's also a lot more little tricks you can tack on and I haven't figured them all out yet (like using sharpcast and convert to add two more Fire4s during your initial 30 seconds of Enochian)
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Jul 14, 2015 18:55
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Truga posted:Jesus. As a rule of thumb, people who name their characters after FF or anime characters are almost universally bad.
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Jul 14, 2015 18:57
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Truga posted:Jesus. That's the kind of DPS I feel bad+embarrassed about when I'm doing levelling dungeons in HW as a BLM and not even doing my lovely rotation particularly well because I'm high and eating cup ramen between pulls and also sometimes during and also sometimes forget leylines and enochian exist and yet I'm still the top DPS for some reason.
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Jul 14, 2015 18:57
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Truga posted:Jesus. Dying a lot, for one. Kanfy posted:As a rule of thumb, people who name their characters after FF or anime characters are almost universally bad. The bards name was Tiifa Lockhart 
terrified of my bathroom fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Jul 14, 2015 |
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Jul 14, 2015 19:00
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bonewitch posted:The bards name was
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Jul 14, 2015 19:05
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i'll quit bitching about people doing lovely dps and wanting to be carried so they can just mash buttons as soon as square stops putting in dps checks
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Jul 14, 2015 19:11
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Renegret posted:I haven't parsed the new vs. old rotation but the old rotation can't be THAT bad DPS-wise compared to the new one, if I had to guess. Especially if you still use your new cooldowns. How do you do the new rotation on something like neverreap? I typically have to drop to f4 > f1, and if I have to do anything beyond small sidesteps its back to the old rotation until Enochian is back. The new rotation seems at odds with the reality of current content.
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Jul 14, 2015 19:13
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Phlogistic posted:You might want to check out this handy little guide for everything optionally unlockable up to level 50. Awesome, thanks. Oddly enough I think I've gotten everything up to this point. 
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Jul 14, 2015 19:13
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Einstein is an anagram of Estinien makes u think
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Jul 14, 2015 19:15
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more like dICK posted:How do you do the new rotation on something like neverreap? I typically have to drop to f4 > f1, and if I have to do anything beyond small sidesteps its back to the old rotation until Enochian is back. The new rotation seems at odds with the reality of current content. I'm probably the last person who should comment because I'm garbage at the new rotation, but from what I've been doing: Sharpcast so you can have a free Fire3 in the bank to refresh Astral Fire in an emergency. F4 -> F1 if you have to move a lot, as you mentioned. Bliz3 -> Swiftcast Bliz4 if you have 5 seconds left on Enochain Use any combination of the words "gently caress", "poo poo", "god", and "dammit" in any order. The last step is very important and is my most commonly used strategy. I just hit i170 last night so oh boy, I'm so excited to rub my face against alex. e: Also remember to eat AoEs then yell at the healer. I like to gamble with manawall/manaward but this is probably an awful idea in practice.
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Jul 14, 2015 19:17
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Vermain posted:My A1 run this morning had a tank who wouldn't drag Oppressor over to the lasers, leading to two wipes, and when I suggested that he do so he said that he "shouldn't have to" because "this fight is easy." Unsurprisingly, we one-shot it after he left. v See I solve this problem by always assuming I dont know what Im doing, so if people tell me to do something different I will.
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Jul 14, 2015 19:18
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i still think it's funny that there's some idiots saying drg is too hard of a rotation to do because sometimes your positional at the end of a combo is from the side, and sometimes it's from the back like if it's that hard to keep up for you just loving put the buttons really big in an obvious place because wheeling thrust/fang and claw only loving light up anyways when you can actually use them
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Jul 14, 2015 19:19
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sword_man.gif posted:i'll quit bitching about people doing lovely dps and wanting to be carried so they can just mash buttons as soon as square stops putting in dps checks Yeah, whats really shocking is the massive gulf between bad and competent dps. I'm not sure if this is the game's fault or just a consequence of how easy the story and leveling is. I feel like its even worse in HW because it seems like pugs aren't adapting to the new skills at all, and just regressing to 2.x rotations. I swear that half the BLMs I see in DF don't use enochian at all. FWIW I'm not arguing that the story content should be harder, its just that it doesn't challenge you enough. People who have been skating along doing minimum passable dps hit brick walls on bis ex, or even hit enrage on A1 which is almost inconceivable to me.
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Jul 14, 2015 19:19
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A lot of it is just due to the fact that most rotations in 2.0 were incredibly simple, and now they've introduced a degree of complexity.
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Jul 14, 2015 19:21
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I'll stop wanting parsers when SE makes it impossible to tell when tanks and healers are doing poorly (so never)
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Jul 14, 2015 19:21
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mightygerm posted:FWIW I'm not arguing that the story content should be harder, its just that it doesn't challenge you enough. People who have been skating along doing minimum passable dps hit brick walls on bis ex, or even hit enrage on A1 which is almost inconceivable to me. it's not even bis ex, i had to go through 8 loving groups on bismarck hard to get my loving story done because i can see on the parser that me and the other drk i was tanking with were basically like 2nd and 3rd on dps and we kept loving wiping to the ultimate but actually pointing out to the monk that he should be doing more than 200 dps is using 3rd party tools for harassment
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Jul 14, 2015 19:22
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sword_man.gif posted:it's not even bis ex, i had to go through 8 loving groups on bismarck hard to get my loving story done because i can see on the parser that me and the other drk i was tanking with were basically like 2nd and 3rd on dps and we kept loving wiping to the ultimate I'm still at a loss as to why DF groups have so many problems with Bismark. I've gotten Bis 3 times as part of trial roulette, and all 3 times we failed for a half hour then gave up after a half hour. It's not a hard fight, I have no loving idea what's going on. People just suddenly drop dead during the last phase.
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Jul 14, 2015 19:25
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it's a dps check that requires competency in a game where pointing out that someone does lovely dps is a bannable offense, so you kind of shuffle your feet around until the abandon timer is up
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Jul 14, 2015 19:26
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mightygerm posted:Yeah, whats really shocking is the massive gulf between bad and competent dps. I'm not sure if this is the game's fault or just a consequence of how easy the story and leveling is. I feel like its even worse in HW because it seems like pugs aren't adapting to the new skills at all, and just regressing to 2.x rotations. I swear that half the BLMs I see in DF don't use enochian at all. Eventually people hit a cap on how much they are willing to study and practice for a videogame, and I don't see how any game-related content is going to change that. If the game gets too "hard" for them to play, they aren't going to suddenly up and say "Oh gee, I'd better download a parser and run drills on the practice dummy every night." They're going to say "Oh well, guess I'm not getting any farther than this" and either take to the forums to beg for content nerfs or find another game to play.
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Jul 14, 2015 19:26
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Nipponophile posted:If the game gets too "hard" for them to play, they aren't going to suddenly up and say "Oh gee, I'd better download a parser and run drills on the practice dummy every night." They're going to say "Oh well, guess I'm not getting any farther than this" and either take to the forums to beg for content nerfs or find another game to play. except in practice this doesn't happen, there's no feedback given that they themselves are bad and so you get some truly terrible people complaining that the rest of the group is poo poo, because i can't be poo poo, i'm me
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Jul 14, 2015 19:28
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Fister Roboto posted:A lot of it is just due to the fact that most rotations in 2.0 were incredibly simple, and now they've introduced a degree of complexity. Run Dungeons, press buttons, learn. I'm actually having the occasional issue with getting my classes up to 51 VIA Daily Hunt marks because I'm way too used to running dungeons and playing a tank. 'A level 55 mark? I can take that at 50. SO MUCH DAMAGE NO I CAN'T RUN AWAY'
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Jul 14, 2015 19:29
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What they should do is make the max level job quest for each tier an ilevel-synced solo trial that gates content based on your performance and gives tips/points out mistakes when they occur. Like, lets say 1k dps is the theoretical maximum for x dps with no non-native buffs. If you can do 500 dps, you're free to do HM trials and dungeons. 700 DPS unlocks EX trials and story mode raids. 900 unlocks Savage and any other top tier content they add. Healers can get a trial that tests how well they can heal through damage, how quick they can raise, etc. Tanks get tested on emnity and CD management. There's a ton of people out there who have no idea that they're not very good at the game and have no idea how to improve because the game makes no attempt to teach beyond the absolute basics.
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Jul 14, 2015 19:32
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ilifinicus posted:I, too, enjoy being carried through content that I feel entitled to experience without having to put in an effort I'm not insinuating that i should be getting carried, it's easy to play a class competently and be somewhat good at it. I play a bard, understand my rotation and never get yelled at for my dps because I do my job. I am more so posting about the bad experiences people in here share with pubbies bitching about dps in groups for duty finder content. I shouldn't have to provide that kind of context, but that's the world we live in. Also saying that its much less stressful than playing wow and watching dps meters and getting upset over it.
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Jul 14, 2015 19:34
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more like dICK posted:How do you do the new rotation on something like neverreap? I typically have to drop to f4 > f1, and if I have to do anything beyond small sidesteps its back to the old rotation until Enochian is back. The new rotation seems at odds with the reality of current content. Just practice keeping enochian up intill the skill has come off cooldown. That's only 3 rotations of fire4 and bliz4. The rest comes so naturally it's literally insane. People complaining are like "Ok, I will fire 4 in till I have EXACLTY 6 seconds left on enochain! I'm a boss, I post on the internet!" <totally drops the ball on the 6 seconds switch> "loving BLM ROTATION, THIS poo poo IS IMPOSSIBLE! How can my spreadsheet be wrong!"
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Jul 14, 2015 19:36
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bonewitch posted:There's a ton of people out there who have no idea that they're not very good at the game and have no idea how to improve because the game makes no attempt to teach beyond the absolute basics. This. I'm not asking for anyone to spreadsheet out rotations and search the internet for the optimal cooldown usage. Black mage is a shining example of this. You've all met the DF only-blizzard blms or the rotate fire3-ice3-fire3 ones. Theres no real feedback in the game to tell them that this is 'wrong'. The skills are clearly intended to be used, at the very least, in a fire phase then an ice phase when you're out of mp, but the game doesn't really teach you that.
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Jul 14, 2015 19:40
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Leal posted:And goons say nothing bad comes from DPS parsers I'm pretty sure we have had more AFK scholars then people being bitched at for doing low dps based on said bitcher using dps parsers. No argument will ever win being against DPS parsing being good because they specifically design their hardest fights with razor thin margins that all but require a parser to do before its nerfed. Holyshoot fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Jul 14, 2015 |
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Jul 14, 2015 19:41
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mightygerm posted:This. I'm not asking for anyone to spreadsheet out rotations and search the internet for the optimal cooldown usage. Black mage is a shining example of this. You've all met the DF only-blizzard blms or the rotate fire3-ice3-fire3 ones. Theres no real feedback in the game to tell them that this is 'wrong'. that's basically the problem. there's zero feedback that you're doing a rotation poorly and doing bad dps. it's very easy to tell when a tank or healer is loving up, and very hard to tell when a dps is without using a parser.
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Jul 14, 2015 19:42
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sword_man.gif posted:that's basically the problem. there's zero feedback that you're doing a rotation poorly and doing bad dps. it's very easy to tell when a tank or healer is loving up, and very hard to tell when a dps is without using a parser. Not helped by the fact that you can do any of the solo content (and even the normal-tier party content) by pressing just about any of your buttons in any order. It really reinforces the thought that whatever you're doing is good enough and really causes that defensive reaction to any sort of suggestion on how to improve. Even when I'm at my most well meaning with advice I either get taken as someone trying too hard, or just met with silence. It gets really old to just kind of sit on my hands when a party can't meet the pass-or-fail DPS checks and wait for the Vote Abandon to pop up. I'm not the best player ever but in those cases I know I'm not the problem because I can see the numbers but I just have to keep mum about it. It sucks.
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Jul 14, 2015 19:47
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sword_man.gif posted:that's basically the problem. there's zero feedback that you're doing a rotation poorly and doing bad dps. it's very easy to tell when a tank or healer is loving up, and very hard to tell when a dps is without using a parser. Well there is, but it involves you second guessing yourself. I was playing A4 a bunch on Sunday and then I figured I was getting lazy with deeps. So I tried to change up how I did things. This was all without running ACT, I don't know if I improved or got worse or even getting lazy to begin with. I turned it on at one point just to see my dps, was in this killer group. All the dps stayed around 900 for the fight and did around 1.2+ million damage combined. The split on the total damage didn't have that big of a gap either. I love a4 when people know what to do!
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Jul 14, 2015 19:47
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So what are my options for burst damage as a SMN? Like on adds that need to die, because I feel like ruin spam isn't cutting it.
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Jul 14, 2015 19:48
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bonewitch posted:What they should do is make the max level job quest for each tier an ilevel-synced solo trial that gates content based on your performance and gives tips/points out mistakes when they occur. Like, lets say 1k dps is the theoretical maximum for x dps with no non-native buffs. If you can do 500 dps, you're free to do HM trials and dungeons. 700 DPS unlocks EX trials and story mode raids. 900 unlocks Savage and any other top tier content they add. Healers can get a trial that tests how well they can heal through damage, how quick they can raise, etc. Tanks get tested on emnity and CD management. Wow gated doing heroic dungeons by requiring you to get silver on a similar trial system. Dunno how well it worked tho.
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Jul 14, 2015 19:49
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Ibram Gaunt posted:Wow gated doing heroic dungeons by requiring you to get silver on a similar trial system. Dunno how well it worked tho. Couldn't tell you. Once raids came out dungeons were obsolete.
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Jul 14, 2015 19:50
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without having played smn seriously, tri-disaster, bane, fester? dot classes tend not to be great on murder this thing right now deathflare hits like a truck so if you know an add phase is coming where they gotta die asap save it for that i guess
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Jul 14, 2015 19:51
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Ibram Gaunt posted:Wow gated doing heroic dungeons by requiring you to get silver on a similar trial system. Dunno how well it worked tho. very well because it wasn't that hard but filtered out a whole lot of truly terrible people
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Jul 14, 2015 19:51
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Holyshoot posted:Couldn't tell you. Once raids came out dungeons were obsolete. Not far from happening in FF14 unless the new tomes require the expert roulette. I farmed up 1300 law in Alex this weekend.
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Jul 14, 2015 19:52
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sword_man.gif posted:except in practice this doesn't happen, there's no feedback given that they themselves are bad and so you get some truly terrible people complaining that the rest of the group is poo poo, because i can't be poo poo, i'm me Not that this solves the overall problem but would solve your problem. Why don't you get a static? Then you can pretend the awfulness doesn't exist and not be angered by it. Tenzarin posted:Not far from happening in FF14 unless the new tomes require the expert roulette. I farmed up 1300 law in Alex this weekend. Ya I haven't had to run dungeons for law for a week now and it's quite nice. I'm pretty sure the new tomes will be tied to EXDR/Alex. I don't see why not.
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Jul 14, 2015 19:54
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:So what are my options for burst damage as a SMN? Like on adds that need to die, because I feel like ruin spam isn't cutting it. At 50: Fester. At 60: Fester, Painflare, DT+Ruin 3 spam, Akh morn Ibram Gaunt posted:Wow gated doing heroic dungeons by requiring you to get silver on a similar trial system. Dunno how well it worked tho. I never played WoW but it seems like a not terrible idea. Other than that SE would probably have to deal with a million salty scrubs threatening to quit the game over it.
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