CommieGIR posted:

Holy poo poo shut up.

Take your personhood bullshit and shove it up your rear end.

Voyager I posted:

So on another note, I spent a few days visiting my father and one of his close friends turned out to be a diehard Alex Jones follower. I'd heard him mentioned in passing just from browsing this particular forum, but from hearing a bit of his podcasts he seems like an obvious huckster whose business model is to spout off an inane string of conspiracy theories that are impossible to fact-check tied together with fallacious arguments and then conclude that the only way to protect yourself from the new world order is to buy his $400 water filtration system.

Is there a more detailed takedown of him somewhere? Now that he's on my radar I'm curious to get into the meat of this windbag.

Goatman Sacks posted:

He can't help himself, he identifies with fetsuses because of how much of a pathetically tiny manlet he is.

Armyman25 posted:

I knew this one was going to come up, it's such a favorite. If a woman miscarries then it's a natural death. We don't arrest people because their children died naturally.

quote:

WITH the success of Republicans in the midterm elections and the passage of Tennessee’s anti-abortion amendment, we can expect ongoing efforts to ban abortion and advance the “personhood” rights of fertilized eggs, embryos and fetuses.

But it is not just those who support abortion rights who have reason to worry. Anti-abortion measures pose a risk to all pregnant women, including those who want to be pregnant.

Such laws are increasingly being used as the basis for arresting women who have no intention of ending a pregnancy and for preventing women from making their own decisions about how they will give birth.

How does this play out? Based on the belief that he had an obligation to give a fetus a chance for life, a judge in Washington, D.C., ordered a critically ill 27-year-old woman who was 26 weeks pregnant to undergo a cesarean section, which he understood might kill her. Neither the woman nor her baby survived.

In Iowa, a pregnant woman who fell down a flight of stairs was reported to the police after seeking help at a hospital. She was arrested for “attempted fetal homicide.”

In Utah, a woman gave birth to twins; one was stillborn. Health care providers believed that the stillbirth was the result of the woman’s decision to delay having a cesarean. She was arrested on charges of fetal homicide.

In Louisiana, a woman who went to the hospital for unexplained vaginal bleeding was locked up for over a year on charges of second-degree murder before medical records revealed she had suffered a miscarriage at 11 to 15 weeks of pregnancy.

Florida has had a number of such cases. In one, a woman was held prisoner at a hospital to prevent her from going home while she appeared to be experiencing a miscarriage. She was forced to undergo a cesarean. Neither the detention nor the surgery prevented the pregnancy loss, but they did keep this mother from caring for her two small children at home. While a state court later found the detention unlawful, the opinion suggested that if the hospital had taken her prisoner later in her pregnancy, its actions might have been permissible.

In another case, a woman who had been in labor at home was picked up by a sheriff, strapped down in the back of an ambulance, taken to a hospital, and forced to have a cesarean she did not want. When this mother later protested what had happened, a court concluded that the woman’s personal constitutional rights “clearly did not outweigh the interests of the State of Florida in preserving the life of the unborn child.”

Anti-abortion reasoning has also provided the justification for arresting pregnant women who experience depression and have attempted suicide. A 22-year-old in South Carolina who was eight months pregnant attempted suicide by jumping out a window. She survived despite suffering severe injuries. Because she lost the pregnancy, she was arrested and jailed for the crime of homicide by child abuse.

These are not isolated or rare cases. Last year, we published a peer-reviewed study documenting 413 arrests or equivalent actions depriving pregnant women of their physical liberty during the 32 years between 1973, when Roe v. Wade was decided, and 2005. In a majority of these cases, women who had no intention of ending a pregnancy went to term and gave birth to a healthy baby. This includes the many cases where the pregnant woman was alleged to have used some amount of alcohol or a criminalized drug.

Since 2005, we have identified an additional 380 cases, with more arrests occurring every week. This significant increase coincides with what the Guttmacher Institute describes as a “seismic shift” in the number of states with laws hostile to abortion rights.

The principle at the heart of contemporary efforts to end legal abortion is that fertilized eggs, embryos and fetuses are persons or at least have separate rights that must be protected by the state. In each of the cases we identified, this same rationale provided the justification for the deprivation of pregnant women’s physical liberty, as well as of the right to medical decision making, medical privacy, bodily integrity and, in one case, the woman’s right to life.

Many of the pregnant women subjected to this mistreatment are themselves profoundly opposed to abortion. Yet it was precisely the legal arguments for recriminalizing abortion that were used to strip them of their rights to dignity and liberty in the context of labor and delivery. These cases, individually and collectively, highlight what is so often missed when the focus is on attacking or defending abortion, namely that all pregnant women are at risk of losing a wide range of fundamental rights that are at the core of constitutional personhood in the United States.

If we want to end these unjust and inhumane arrests and forced interventions on pregnant women, we need to stop focusing only on the abortion issue and start working to protect the personhood of pregnant women.

We should be able to work across the spectrum of opinion about abortion to unite in the defense of one basic principle: that at no point in her pregnancy should a woman lose her civil and human rights.

Chantilly Say posted:

I may be speaking in ignorance but I don't think anyone in this thread has supported those laws.

Mister Macys posted:

You have to prove they "died naturally" first.
But that doesn't matter, because they will arrest you and cut you the gently caress OPEN.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/08/opinion/pregnant-and-no-civil-rights.html?_r=0

Mister Macys posted:

You have to prove they "died naturally" first.
But that doesn't matter, because they will arrest you and cut you the gently caress OPEN.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/08/opinion/pregnant-and-no-civil-rights.html?_r=0

Epic High Five posted:

Holy poo poo

Klaus88 posted:

Armyman25 posted:

I knew this one was going to come up, it's such a favorite. If a woman miscarries then it's a natural death. We don't arrest people because their children died naturally.

Mister Macys posted:

You have to prove they "died naturally" first.
But that doesn't matter, because they will arrest you and cut you the gently caress OPEN.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/08/opinion/pregnant-and-no-civil-rights.html?_r=0

Chantilly Say posted:

I may be speaking in ignorance but I don't think anyone in this thread has supported those laws.

Wales Grey posted:

If a person argues for fetal personhood, then they are arguing in favor of those outcomes, namely the enshrinement of the fetus as a living human child sub-category under law. Barring, of course, narrowly defining fetal personhood in a sufficiently convoluted fashion that it only says "abortion is wrong". Armyman25 was arguing a fetus has the same rights as a person, so therefore they support the natural results of fetal personhood: the submission of a woman's rights to those of the fetus.

Lemming posted:

If you think fetuses are people, how could you not?

Chantilly Say posted:

They're poo poo laws with bad outcomes that don't even improve conditions for fetuses, someone's views on personhood don't need to have anything to do with policy.

Chantilly Say posted:

They're poo poo laws with bad outcomes that don't even improve conditions for fetuses, someone's views on personhood don't need to have anything to do with policy.

Chantilly Say posted:

What on earth does personhood need to have to do with somehow now (???) prosecuting people for miscarriages? That's not even what he was suggesting.

Chantilly Say posted:

Okay, I didn't get being anti-choice from his posts but maybe there's history.

CommieGIR posted:

Because he is using the same argument as those of the Personhood movement, that a zygote is a person and therefore birth control counts as murder.


He specifically highlighted zygotes and fertilized eggs as 'People' and that therefore day after pills and birth control were murder of people.

Phone posted:

You're being too kind, he was saying that referring to the zygote as a person means that it's philosophically consistent with equating hormonal birth control with murder... while ignoring that the only thing pro-life people are consistent on are their daily bowel movements.

CommieGIR posted:

Because he is using the same argument as those of the Personhood movement, that a zygote is a person and therefore birth control counts as murder.


He specifically highlighted zygotes and fertilized eggs as 'People' and that therefore day after pills and birth control were murder of people.

Mormon Star Wars posted:

Personhood was too extreme for Mississippi.

Teaches of Peaches posted:

Seconding this. If it didn't get passed in Mississippi where poo poo is real bad I think we might be okay for a bit.

RareAcumen posted:

Please, you or someone else go into why Mississippi is so bad. All I know about the state is from this small part of a podcast.

https://youtu.be/WfQ17F6y850?t=5m10s

Typical Pubbie posted:

Rush just claimed that Comedy Central stole the idea for The Daily Show from The Half Hour News Hour.

RareAcumen posted:

Please, you or someone else go into why Mississippi is so bad.

Nintendo Kid posted:

Take a look at most good statistics a state could have, Mississippi is usually in the bottom 3. Take a look at most bad statistics a state could have, Mississippi is usually in the top 3.

Nintendo Kid posted:

Take a look at most good statistics a state could have, Mississippi is usually in the bottom 3. Take a look at most bad statistics a state could have, Mississippi is usually in the top 3.

Gravel Gravy posted:

Mississippi is that state that people can spell with a little diddy. That's about all it has going for it.

Motto posted:

what the gently caress

Ghost of Reagan Past posted:

This has been going on for a long, long time.

The most horrifying thing is that the pregnant woman is generally upset, so when there's a conflict and judges come to do things, there's a calm doctor telling them the "medical facts" (they will conveniently ignore the risk to the mother and focus on the life of the fetus) and a usually justifiably upset woman that the judge will likely think is acting hysterically (of course this has its own horrible connotations) in comparison to the doctor, so they'll just order that the doctors do what they gotta do. The whole thing is sickening and women's rights are regularly violated. It doesn't matter what you think of abortion, the idea that we can force medical procedures on competent adults (in many of these cases the mothers are judged to be incompetent because they're making decisions against what the doctors think reasonable, or are actively upset, conveniently ignoring how competency is judged in other cases) is abhorrent.

EDIT: to clarify, when doctors and patients disagree on what should be done, they usually agree on all the medical facts, but differ on the relative importance of them. So a lot of times, doctors in these cases will treat the patient as if they don't actually know what is going on, when the patient is usually painfully aware of what's happening.

FuzzySkinner posted:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/trump-attacks-mccain-being-prisoner-war-i-people-werent-captured_993092.html#.Vap_qf3YSaM.twitter

Please, please, please, please...I beg of everyone.

Please let veterans see this poo poo. Holy Hell.

FuzzySkinner posted:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/trump-attacks-mccain-being-prisoner-war-i-people-werent-captured_993092.html#.Vap_qf3YSaM.twitter

Please, please, please, please...I beg of everyone.

Please let veterans see this poo poo. Holy Hell.