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Renaissance Robot posted:Isn't that concept only supposed to refer to possible interpretations of subtext or thematic meaning in the story, rather than solid universe facts like "X is gay"? Death of the author means you ignore the author's stated intent and their background/etc and only go by what is in the text. So you would discount any author comments but any arguments based on the text itself would be valid. Stuff like all the allegories people see in Tolkien's work despite his claims that he did not intend for those allegories to exist in it. C.S. Lewis was all about the allegories tho. The argument is pretty silly though, but I suppose if it's what makes them happy then so be it. They shouldn't be doing it in the comments section and scarring off potential readers though, so Zack made a good call to nix the comments section. Webcomics are far better off without them these days. JuniperCake fucked around with this message at 10:20 on Jul 19, 2015 |
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Jul 19, 2015 10:17
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Is there a link somewhere that has all the spirit language deciphered? I'm just rereading it now because I've lost track of what's going on, but only just discovered that it's actually just weird shapes making normal letters, not some code. But it's still kind of a pain to read.
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Jul 19, 2015 11:11
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:If the text supports an argument, that argument should be considered a valid interpretation. That's my view on it at least.
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Jul 19, 2015 11:18
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Kazy posted:Is there a link somewhere that has all the spirit language deciphered? yeah high spirit is just a sort of negative outline of letters and the cursed words have their own system going on. this page has translations for every instance of high spirit/skull language
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Jul 19, 2015 13:50
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Splicer posted:The corollary to this that if it's contradicted by the text then it's not a valid interpretation. Fandom does not like hearing this. Unreliable narrator!
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Jul 19, 2015 13:57
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Kazy posted:Is there a link somewhere that has all the spirit language deciphered? You can find translations for each page in the comme- oh...
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Jul 19, 2015 14:14
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Probably Magic posted:Unreliable narrator! Unrelliable reader.
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Jul 19, 2015 14:14
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Wow. I can understand not approving of an author's decision to make a character gay but flat out denying it happened at all "cuz' Death of the author" is a special kind of crazy. It's like they want to enjoy the comic, but can't because it's now promoting the evil gay agenda. So rather than be forced to stop reading they instead just will the decision out of existence. It's both sad and brilliant at the same time.
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Jul 19, 2015 17:57
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Death of the Author doesn't mean you get to ignore plot or character elements, it means you can draw your own meanings from stories. My favorite example is Fahrenheit 451. It's highly regarded on commentary on censorship (and Bradbury at the time said as much) but as time went on he said his real intended meaning was that people are too caught up with their tele-visions and headphones and c-sections and don't read & look at nature enough. Basically since the "kids these days" argument is boring and terrible the anti-censorship interpretation stuck around because it's way better. Anyway deciding that a gay character is straight even when the author says it outright is basically the worst.
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Jul 19, 2015 18:15
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My favorite is the guy in the Legend of Korra thread who insisted that all the people seeing romantic elements in the interaction between Korra and Asami were reading their gay agenda into the show, and who continued to insist this even after the creators announced "yes, they are totally bisexuals for each other, and yes, we have been deliberately putting this into the show since at least Season 3."
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Jul 19, 2015 18:28
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Kabanaw posted:Death of the Author doesn't mean you get to ignore plot or character elements, it means you can draw your own meanings from stories. My favorite example is Fahrenheit 451. It's highly regarded on commentary on censorship (and Bradbury at the time said as much) but as time went on he said his real intended meaning was that people are too caught up with their tele-visions and headphones and c-sections and don't read & look at nature enough. Basically since the "kids these days" argument is boring and terrible the anti-censorship interpretation stuck around because it's way better. Also: The Shining, where Stephen King has admitted that the interpretation of Jack Torrance being a man who is so consumed by addiction and abuse that he destroys himself and his family is both A) the only conclusion you can reasonably reach from the text and B) completely unintentional on his part and not what he meant to do at all.
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Jul 19, 2015 19:48
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Kabanaw posted:Anyway deciding that a gay character is straight even when the author says it outright is basically the worst. Honestly I'm not that surprised since people have been doing it to themselves in real life for as long as it's been taboo.
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Jul 19, 2015 23:40
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Renaissance Robot posted:Honestly I'm not that surprised since people have been doing it to themselves in real life for as long as it's been taboo.
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Jul 19, 2015 23:43
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Kabanaw posted:Death of the Author doesn't mean you get to ignore plot or character elements, it means you can draw your own meanings from stories. My favorite example is Fahrenheit 451. It's highly regarded on commentary on censorship (and Bradbury at the time said as much) but as time went on he said his real intended meaning was that people are too caught up with their tele-visions and headphones and c-sections and don't read & look at nature enough. Basically since the "kids these days" argument is boring and terrible the anti-censorship interpretation stuck around because it's way better. Death of the Author is sort of good in this case because, since I know the intended message of 451 and did before I read it I kind of can't get it out of my head and the book is garbage because of it. There's also the argument that a piece of work should be able to stand on it's own without needing author notes or essays to properly understand. Someone should be able to read, I dunno, the Divine Comedy and get something from it without having to read a history of Alighieri and find out that it's just him bitching about people he didn't like by putting them in hell.
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Jul 20, 2015 02:27
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Prison Warden posted:Death of the Author is sort of good in this case because, since I know the intended message of 451 and did before I read it I kind of can't get it out of my head and the book is garbage because of it. There's also the argument that a piece of work should be able to stand on it's own without needing author notes or essays to properly understand. Someone should be able to read, I dunno, the Divine Comedy and get something from it without having to read a history of Alighieri and find out that it's just him bitching about people he didn't like by putting them in hell. Bradbury's view of his book changed over time. Censorship was a key issue he had in mind as he was writing it: quote:Bradbury’s letters at the time he wrote Fahrenheit 451, even an article he wrote for The Nation on May 2, 1953, clearly show that censorship was at the forefront of his mind when he wrote his classic novel. In the Nation essay, Bradbury questioned “whether or not my ideas on censorship via the fire department [in an early version of Fahrenheit 451] will be old hat this time next week. … When the wind is right, a faint odor of kerosene is exhaled from Senator McCarthy.” So whose message is the intended one, 1952 Bradbury or 2007 Bradbury? It's a really bad example because even the author changed his mind regarding what the book was actually about. Ague Proof fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Jul 20, 2015 |
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Jul 20, 2015 03:28
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Ague Proof posted:So whose message is the intended one, 1952 Bradbury or 2007 Bradbury? It's a really bad example because even the author changed his mind regarding what the book was actually about.
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Jul 20, 2015 04:22
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"Death of the Author" is sometimes misapplied in fandom to mean wanting the author to die, by means of the ax that the reader is grinding in their criticism.
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Jul 20, 2015 04:38
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I understand the sentiment of wanting a work to stand on its own in a void, but it feels like a pipe dream considering how over time the context that a work relies on will slip away until even the language is archaic and you have to really work to figure out what anything meant. I can respect the concept of giving legitimacy to what meaning other people want to give to a work, but that doesn't change the fact that most of the time the author will have actually meant to put meaning into a work, and that's not irrelevant.Kabanaw posted:Anyway deciding that a gay character is straight even when the author says it outright is basically the worst. Well, fandoms tend to do the reverse all the time as well. I don't think I'd be surprised if people started putting out fanart of Johnny and Max making out because hate = love. Although I suppose from a practical standpoint, none of the characters really have sexuality , since Zach has said that he doesn't want to write romance.
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Jul 20, 2015 06:04
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Poison Mushroom posted:I'm pretty sure the 2007 Bradbury also wears a tinfoil hat and votes for the Tea Party. Eh, or read too much McLuhan.
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Jul 20, 2015 06:38
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SlothfulCobra posted:I understand the sentiment of wanting a work to stand on its own in a void, but it feels like a pipe dream considering how over time the context that a work relies on will slip away until even the language is archaic and you have to really work to figure out what anything meant. I can respect the concept of giving legitimacy to what meaning other people want to give to a work, but that doesn't change the fact that most of the time the author will have actually meant to put meaning into a work, and that's not irrelevant. I'm more forgiving of the reverse since oftentimes it's just marginalized people making their own representation in things they like since same-sex couples (especially those not written to be a joke) in media have been pretty rare up until recently, whereas deciding a gay character is straight generally comes from the "ew gays are icky" camp.
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Jul 20, 2015 19:08
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Kabanaw posted:I'm more forgiving of the reverse since oftentimes it's just marginalized people making their own representation in things they like since same-sex couples (especially those not written to be a joke) in media have been pretty rare up until recently, whereas deciding a gay character is straight generally comes from the "ew gays are icky" camp. In my experience the former is done 9/10 by straight women to justify their masturbation material.
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Jul 21, 2015 00:07
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Still better than the opposite.
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Jul 21, 2015 00:12
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Mazerunner posted:reverse chibisoma if anything Exactly. Behold it in action. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xz3OISxP-Iw
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Jul 21, 2015 01:27
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SirSamVimes posted:Exactly. Behold it in action. The comment at 0:43 was oddly prescient... just for the wrong comic. 
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Jul 21, 2015 01:31
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New comic! It's on time!! http://www.paranatural.net/comic/chapter-5-page-52
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Jul 21, 2015 18:12
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pik_d posted:New comic! It's on time!! Important news item too: quote:Today's News:
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Jul 21, 2015 18:17
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What a loving cliffhanger to go on a 10-day hiatus for.
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Jul 21, 2015 18:21
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So. If Dmitri was in the activity club, I can bet I know why he quit. Also, this is setting up to look like something really freakin' cool in 5 weeks when we get to it.
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Jul 21, 2015 18:28
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Still don't know what's going on anymore.
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Jul 21, 2015 18:30
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neogeo0823 posted:So. If Dmitri was in the activity club, I can bet I know why he quit. Clue us in.
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Jul 21, 2015 18:44
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Brannock posted:Clue us in. Spender is not a very good authority figure.
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Jul 21, 2015 18:57
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Brannock posted:Clue us in. Dimitri's rant sure sounds a lot like Spender.
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Jul 21, 2015 18:57
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The anime levels are going off the charts, here. Jeff's going to explode out of the perfectly normal student's grip with a corona of yellow energy coursing through his now spiky hair.
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Jul 21, 2015 18:59
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I like how Dimitri has earned Johnny's respect
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Jul 21, 2015 19:01
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Hypocrisy posted:
Bingo. What is Spender if not an authority that lacks talent and thus doesn't "deserve" blind compliance?
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Jul 21, 2015 19:21
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He's got talent in spades, what he lacks is reliability, competence, and the ability to not be a huge dork about everything. He's somehow fallen into a position of responsibility but is still acting like the hot headed protagonist.
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Jul 21, 2015 19:27
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Spender is an anime protagonist who never grew out of being n anime protagonist. He's even trying up to live to his [absent parental figure(s)] and has a [dark side]. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Dec 16, 2015 |
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Jul 21, 2015 19:46
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Renaissance Robot posted:He's got talent in spades, what he lacks is reliability, competence, and the ability to not be a huge dork about everything. Yeah, Spender can accomplish a lot when he's focused. He did pretty much one-shot Forge when he finally got serious and used his own power instead of just stealing the light from Forge's fires after all. And if he set his mind to it could probably surpass Isabel's grandpa, and I believe Isabel's grandpa even said as much or at least implied it. But he's more concerned with protecting the town from threats both real and imagined to do that, on top of being unwilling to work with anyone besides the kids.
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Jul 21, 2015 20:29
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Spender got his butt kicked by Forge until Forge turned his back on him so he could save his kids and Lucifer flat out states that Spender's fearsome reputation really should be Francisco's. Spender really is completely over his head. He's actually not some sort of spectral superman with a dorky, goofy streak. He's actually just a giant screw up and a terrible teacher of the kids. He's juggling too many balls and he drat near dropped a bunch during the Train chapter. If Forge wasn't a surprisingly decent ghost, he would have died. The only consolation would have been that Agent Day could have still saved the kids.
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Jul 22, 2015 03:36
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Francisco did say Spender was his most talented pupil, so it's not just idle boast. And he did somehow capture that shadow dude. Forge is just real strong and Spender has horrible combat judgement.
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Jul 22, 2015 07:48
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