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Asehujiko posted:Captains cap out at 20 points, right? What is a good setup for US cruiser captains? Right now I'm thinking of The max level is 19, assuming nothing has changed from CBT. NTRabbit posted:Did you know that if you fire shells at a ship and they hit, there is guaranteed damage? Not if the shell overpens or bounces 
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Jul 20, 2015 13:57
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bobthethurd posted:The people hating on CVs don't seem to have ever played them or I think they'd not complain about them so much. The fact that you die as quick if every enemy ship of a class focuses you as compared to one carrier doesn't advance your point. Being focused by one BB isn't frustrating, it's a fight, it's fundamentally different to carriers.
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Jul 20, 2015 14:14
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I still think it's pretty funny that anyone thinks there's anything more ridiculous than HE fires from shell spamming light cruisers and destroyers that needs nerfing. I've had more battleships and heavy cruisers utterly wrecked by fires than anything a torpedo bomber has dished out.
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Jul 20, 2015 14:25
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There's a boat-load of people in the EU servers that think the Cleveland should be nerfed 
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Jul 20, 2015 14:30
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Sorry to ask this question yet again, but which nations battleship and cruiser should I go for?
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Jul 20, 2015 14:58
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NTRabbit posted:I still think it's pretty funny that anyone thinks there's anything more ridiculous than HE fires from shell spamming light cruisers and destroyers that needs nerfing. I've had more battleships and heavy cruisers utterly wrecked by fires than anything a torpedo bomber has dished out. If the fires are truly that unbearable, then fly the fire signal flag, grab Basics of Survivability, Fire Prevention, and High Alert. Wait to use your repair until you have multiple fires or a damaged module you need back up. Fires don't kill you instantly, or even all that quickly. You have plenty of time to deal with the HE spamming CA, why don't you just light them on fire? Or you could use your "guaranteed damage" shells. 
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Jul 20, 2015 14:58
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Burt posted:It's no use trying to rehash the SPG argument from WoTs, the fact is CVs are free to pick and choose their targets at will, if you are in a high tier Battleship or Cruiser you are, quite rightly, going to get all their attention and trying to say you can hide or get in a pack is just utter nonsense. I'd be fine with carriers being untouched if I had A) better AA at lower tiers and B) better XP gain for blapping planes. The 500 free XP mission for plane kills is nice for that, though they could probably improve the rewards some, I can understand why they don't want to make it so lucrative that every match is a no fly zone. I was tired of being at the mercy of carriers (friendly and unfriendly) so I've been focusing on setting my cruisers up for AA work, with modules and skills, which is pretty simple since it doesn't require much from me at low tiers. The bigger issue was changing my own behavior in-game, remembering to stick with high-value allies instead of doing something more proactive and setting myself to where I'd get the best coverage. I enjoy smacking planes out of the sky despite it requiring nothing from me but positioning and defensive maneuvering, and I'm fine with making the tradeoffs I do in terms of effectiveness when there are no carriers in the match because I'm still capable of putting shells to ships, though I'm a lot less likely to roam or try to make the big plays. Every so often I get a thank you from the pubbies, which is nice 
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Jul 20, 2015 14:59
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El Disco posted:If I get picked out of the crowd because I'm in a top-tier battleship, does that mean I should just never play battleships?
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Jul 20, 2015 15:04
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Despite keeping up with this thread semi-religiously, I continue to class among the worst of pubbies. How do you guys decide where to head at the beginning of the match? I think that's my major issue at the moment - I pick a direction, and that direction ends up being where 75% of the enemy team goes and somewhere along the line half of the pubbies in my pack left and I'm only travelling with three destroyers and an up-tiered cruiser.
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Jul 20, 2015 15:05
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I really want to division with another Tier VI+ cruiser so that we can time the AA consumable so that we almost always have highly effective coverage. Anyone with any experience coordinating the uses this way?
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Jul 20, 2015 15:05
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Yesterday was a good day for Mr. Myogi. Managed to 1v1 a Kuma at 4 km and a Cleveland at 10km while dealing with repeated carrier attacks. The accuracy at range may blow but the guns still citadel pen very well at lower ranges. Also, there is far more counterplay to carriers than there ever was to artillery. Just proper evasive maneuvering alone will cut out a lot of damage, but strategic awareness matters too.
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Jul 20, 2015 15:10
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Hazdoc posted:If the fires are truly that unbearable, then fly the fire signal flag, grab Basics of Survivability, Fire Prevention, and High Alert. Wait to use your repair until you have multiple fires or a damaged module you need back up. Fires don't kill you instantly, or even all that quickly. You have plenty of time to deal with the HE spamming CA, why don't you just light them on fire? Or you could use your "guaranteed damage" shells. Ok I get it, so what you're saying is it's not cool for carriers to be able to do useful damage, but it's totally fine for every US cruiser from tier 3 to 6 to so utterly dominate the ocean with fast firing and accurate napalm dispensers that it's scarcely worth playing anything else right now. Gotcha.
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Jul 20, 2015 15:26
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NTRabbit posted:Ok I get it, so what you're saying is it's not cool for carriers to be able to do useful damage, but it's totally fine for every US cruiser from tier 3 to 6 to so utterly dominate the ocean with fast firing and accurate napalm dispensers that it's scarcely worth playing anything else right now. Gotcha. How is it possible to be so wrong?
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Jul 20, 2015 15:39
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Hazdoc posted:How is it possible to be so wrong? Except I'm not actually. American cruisers are overwhelmingly the most powerful class of ships, especially at low and mid tiers. I had fun driving my Tenryu, and I have fun driving my Kuma, but they're both vastly inferior to the St. Louis - the most overpowered ship in the game - and Phoenix, and given the vitriol directed at the Furutaka I've no doubt the magnificent Omaha badly outstrips it. The Cleveland speaks for itself. They can all very easily deal with destroyers, very easily dodge torpedoes from sea or air, when they get in range handily out damage all the same tier battleships by sheer weight of HE fire, and short of fortunate citadels battleships are just too slow firing and too inaccurate to deal with them. NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 15:47 on Jul 20, 2015 |
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Jul 20, 2015 15:45
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ChickenWing posted:Despite keeping up with this thread semi-religiously, I continue to class among the worst of pubbies. It is boring but will help improve your survivability until you get more experience and confidence.
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Jul 20, 2015 15:57
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The Phoenix and Omaha don't have thick armor. They can be citadeled by BBs at range pretty easily, and up close by every ship. They're just not as easy to citadel as a Tenryuu/Kuma. CAs can't hope to survive against a BB actually hitting it, and only the Cleveland has the firepower to truly repel bombers. Omaha hull C gives up firepower for a decent amount of AA, but it won't drop the accuracy of incoming bombs/torps, so you're still in trouble. The Cleveland isn't as maneuverable as the Phoenix and Omaha before it, and the St. Louis is a fat pig that needs a level 4 commander skill to actually hit things above its tier. The Cleveland has some serious issues once it starts shooting past 12km, as its floaty shots need to be lead pretty far and it has to turn broadside to bring all of its guns to bear, exposing it to more accurate BB fire. It also no longer has torpedoes, forcing it to stick at range or run the risk of a close range torpedoing by a IJN CA or DD. They're good solo boats, good hunters, and are the best ships to solo in, but they've got their flaws. Also, there's counterplay to them, you SHOOT them when they SHOOT at you. I can understand the hate for CVs and torpedoes, you may not be in a position to retaliate against them once the threat arrives, but you can almost always see the dude who is shooting you, and take immediate action to solve the problem. Also I prefer the Kuma to the Phoenix, but that's my personal preference. Until WG puts out numbers that actually show that US CAs are dominating Tiers 3-6, saying they are "dominating" is a pretty strong opinion. An opinion that certainly doesn't justify making GBS threads all over other people for not agreeing with.
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Jul 20, 2015 15:57
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Poil posted:Sorry to ask this question yet again, but which nations battleship and cruiser should I go for? American cruisers are very good, Japanese cruisers also get good at higher tiers. There's a reason so many of them are in the queue compared to other ship classes! For battleships it seems the Japanese have the better options at the moment. Due to the way max range and accuracy work in this game the longer range Japanese guns are also more accurate at any given range. Accuracy is the one huge issue BBs of all types have at the moment so this is actually a pretty big advantage. American BBs have heavier armor but, well, under the current damage model that's not really a huge deal. Be aware that all BBs under tier 5 range from mediocre to awful in addition to being the fat kids who can't avoid torp drops at every tier. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Jul 20, 2015 |
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Jul 20, 2015 15:57
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Hazdoc posted:Also, there's counterplay to them There's counterplay to carriers too, and it's a lot easier and more effective than anything you might want to try against the damage vomiting American cruisers. Also there's no such thing as an "easy citadel", because getting a citadel hit is entirely luck based NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Jul 20, 2015 |
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Jul 20, 2015 16:05
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NTRabbit posted:There's counterplay to carriers too, and it's a lot easier and more effective than anything you might want to try against the damage vomiting American cruisers. Your counter being: "Hope they target someone else?" - Which was literally your advice. Also Citadels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgLsvV-Dfv4 btw: South Carolina will stomp the St. Louis. (use AP).
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Jul 20, 2015 16:19
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Tank Boy Ken posted:Your counter being: "Hope they target someone else?" - Which was literally your advice. That movie is pretty, but it's essentially a load of poo poo, because hitting the exact same spot two times in a row can render one citadel and one not at random. Even at point blank range, when you have the ability to actually pick out the section of the ship you want to aim at, first the RNG works on shot dispersion, then the RNG works on penetration. There exists no ability to make repeat citadel hits that in any way relies on the skill of the captain. Never had any trouble sinking South Carolinas in my St. Louis, and the Kawachi was even easier - sequential fire HE from all the guns, and they will permanently be on fire, and sink pretty quickly. The Kawachi doesn't even get to shoot back. Also "hope they target someone else" wasn't my advice. Team work, positioning and manoeuvre are my advice. NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Jul 20, 2015 |
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Jul 20, 2015 16:30
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Tank Boy Ken posted:
only at exactly 7km, and this involves relying on tier 3 bb accuracy. NTR has bad opinions on everything else but the st louis is a broken, stupid ship. being slow in no way balances having a 10-gun broadside AND being citadel immune from same tier ships for all practical purposes.
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Jul 20, 2015 16:33
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NTRabbit posted:There's counterplay to carriers too, and it's a lot easier and more effective than anything you might want to try against the damage vomiting American cruisers. I know there is counterplay to CVs... I'm not denying that. My gripe is that they get to drop their torps so close that even DDs can have a hard time avoiding all of them. I'm fine with them being virtually guaranteed damage on BBs, and possibly guaranteed against CAs. And I've also stated that I'm fine with their damage getting buffed if it opens up the window to dodge a bit more. US CAs, on the other hand, can be killed, and they don't do quite nearly as much damage as you are hailing them to be. A good salvo of HE does 2K, and that's a REALLY good salvo. Clevelands can get 3-4K. If they hit armor, they'll often just do 1K. Sure, they can do this quickly, but faced with the punishing power of citadels from BBs, and the fact that they have to be in range of getting shot BACK at, means that their ability to do damage opens themselves up to taking damage. US CA torpedoes (Phoenix, Omaha) aren't long ranged enough for them to have any extra options while fighting, all they can do is shoot and shoot and hope they kill their opponent before they get killed themselves. They face the threat of virtually every ship on the enemy team shooting back. quote:Also there's no such thing as an "easy citadel", because getting a citadel hit is entirely luck based
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Jul 20, 2015 16:34
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Playing a bunch of games drunk is not good for your win rate. I dropped like 4% in winrate from just this weekend.
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Jul 20, 2015 16:39
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Hazdoc posted:I know there is counterplay to CVs... I'm not denying that. My gripe is that they get to drop their torps so close that even DDs can have a hard time avoiding all of them. I'm fine with them being virtually guaranteed damage on BBs, and possibly guaranteed against CAs. Haha nah. If a DD gets planetorped he hosed up super hard, and if a CA does he hosed up the normal pubbie amount.
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Jul 20, 2015 16:41
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Hazdoc posted:pretty good chance of citadeling You just said it yourself; there's no guarantee of a citadel at all. I too know where to aim for a citadel, and I too can take a screenshot of myself hitting a phoenix for an intentional citadel hit with my Wyoming at short range, but do you also want me to show you the first attempt - where 11 shots scattered and missed, and one shot did 1k damage - the second attempt - where the broadside registered 3 hits for 3500 damage - before getting to third third attempt, which sucessfully got two citadels and 9 misses in one salvo and sank him. All shots aimed at the same spot, all within 7.5km Mean time, in that 1:30s, that Phoenix has used HE with fires to strip 75% of my hp, and that includes me successfully dodging his torpedoes. It's unlikely I would have survived for a fourth attempt.
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Jul 20, 2015 16:44
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KcDohl posted:Haha nah. If a DD gets planetorped he hosed up super hard, and if a CA does he hosed up the normal pubbie amount. That really depends on how many TBs are involved and how close he drops them. 3 TB squadrons can make a pretty good solid wall of torps.
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Jul 20, 2015 16:51
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Geez, I've slam dunked many light cruisers far more successfully in a myogi, including multiple citadels from a six shell salvo. NT, have you tried leading the target?
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Jul 20, 2015 16:55
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The Phoenix is p. boss.  Is the Omaha even better? I've been holding off on buying it.
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Jul 20, 2015 17:02
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It is better but the matchmaking is less favourable. It's a ton better than the Tier V japanese equivalent, though.
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Jul 20, 2015 17:03
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NTRabbit posted:You just said it yourself; there's no guarantee of a citadel at all. I too know where to aim for a citadel, and I too can take a screenshot of myself hitting a phoenix for an intentional citadel hit with my Wyoming at short range, but do you also want me to show you the first attempt - where 11 shots scattered and missed, and one shot did 1k damage - the second attempt - where the broadside registered 3 hits for 3500 damage - before getting to third third attempt, which sucessfully got two citadels and 9 misses in one salvo and sank him. All shots aimed at the same spot, all within 7.5km quote:and that includes me successfully dodging his torpedoes R. Mute posted:The Phoenix is p. boss. Its pretty good. I believe it has more torps than the Phoenix, does a bit more damage, and carries a fighter to help screen off bombers. The C Hull grants you decent AA, though no Defensive Fire skill to make it truly deadly to aircraft. It is SIGNIFICANTLY better than the IJN T5 CA, the Furutaka, though. You'll have to deal with T5-T6 CVs, the Kongo/New York (when BBs start hitting their stride), and you'll start seeing Clevelands and higher Tier Cruisers, though, so it starts getting rough now. Hazdoc fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Jul 20, 2015 |
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Jul 20, 2015 17:03
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Hazdoc posted:And you were at long range? Your story is pretty... incredible, including the part where you were at 5.5km from a Phoenix (Phoenix torp range is 5.5km, just fyi), and missed doing severe damage with 12 shots twice. Either that, or you're just making poo poo up. Considering I have a Wyoming too, I'm gonna bank on you making poo poo up (or just being a terrible shot). he literally just said he was at short range and you're completely full of poo poo if you're saying any sub tier 5 bb can reliably hit anything at any range
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Jul 20, 2015 17:06
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KcDohl posted:he literally just said he was at short range and you're completely full of poo poo if you're saying any sub tier 5 bb can reliably hit anything at any range Then his story is unbelievable. I literally said that, too. Edit: Haha jesus christ
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Jul 20, 2015 17:08
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xthetenth posted:NT, have you tried leading the target? The shells all flew over the target or into the water before it, and all were aimed to hit right under the front turret - which is more or less where all the shells that did connect actually landed. I don't even know what game some of you think you're playing if you can guarantee hits, and guarantee citadels from those hits using low tier battleship guns no matter how well you personally aim and lead the target. They spray like nobodies business at all ranges - none of them quite as badly as the Myogi, but none of them are great either. NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Jul 20, 2015 |
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Jul 20, 2015 17:10
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R. Mute posted:The Phoenix is p. boss. Yes, the Omaha is fantastic. Go for it. Twice the guns (12), twice the torps (4). I got over 2400 base xp in it.
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Jul 20, 2015 17:12
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Warbadger posted:That really depends on how many TBs are involved and how close he drops them. 3 TB squadrons can make a pretty good solid wall of torps. No no, it's entirely the fault of that cruiser if he eats some torps from 3-4 squadrons dropped in a cross pattern. He obviously should have been playing a destroyer!
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Jul 20, 2015 17:16
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El Disco posted:No no, it's entirely the fault of that cruiser if he eats some torps from 3-4 squadrons dropped in a cross pattern. He obviously should have been playing a destroyer! If a cruiser started maneuvering late enough for someone to have the time to set up a cross pattern then yeah it's entirely his fault
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Jul 20, 2015 17:23
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I was brawling up one of the channels of North in my Fuso. Enemy Fuso and Kongo came down the channel side by side, I killed the Fuso and hosed the Kongo up so my team could finish him, mostly killed the DD that was attempting to escort them, then a Kawachi charged me. Friendly Isokaze behind fires at Kawachi and just misses astern as it turns alongside me, I begin trading point-blank broadsides and kill it. Torp warning. The loving Isokaze fired at it again while I was right next to it, and as soon as it died the torps hit the next closest thing, me. He then called me a "retard" and began telling me how it was my fault, he was trying to "save" my half-health Fuso from a dying T3 battleship, and I should "use the minimap retard". I had some choice words for this guy, and then to my loving astonishment, my teammates leapt to his defence because the big mean WoT player is ruining the game by being so angry and hateful. Of a guy who immediately began calling him a retard for eating unavoidable friendly torps that had no business being launched. loving unreal. Up is down. Left is right.
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Jul 20, 2015 17:25
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Hazdoc posted:You are wrong. At range, perhaps it's a bit lucky, but a BB shell aimed to hit center of target has a pretty good chance of citadeling anyways, and even one shell just normally penetrating will still do 3Kish damage. At close range, citadels get significantly easier, and I've posted drat pictures in this thread before of games where I INTENTIONALLY citadeled enemy CAs (American ones, to boot) to beat them in duels with a DD! If I can citadel them with my DD guns, a CA can do it (with AP, not your complained about HE) and a BB will erase the CA pretty efficiently. Not really. As a random example look at this game. It's a good player, in a tier 10 battleship, at significantly less than max range for most of the game, firing at lower tier battleships that mostly drive broadside. On top of that it's a cherry picked high damage game so you can reasonably conclude that he was getting lucky (if he weren't getting lucky, he'd probably have an even higher damage game to post). Even with all that, he manages 14 citadel hits out of 63 hits total. In a game that's specifically chosen for having a lot of citadel hits, he lands less than one per salvo. Compare to official forum pubbies who claim to consistently land citadel hits every salvo. The difference about cruisers, and even more so destroyers, is that their guns are accurate. You can reliably citadel hit in destroyers and cruisers, if presented with the right target at less than extreme range. The thing that stops destroyers and cruisers from murdering everything with citadel hits is their AP penetration more than their accuracy. I've had games where more than half my hits were citadels. It's not because they aren't random, it's because I was playing a low tier Japanese destroyer and the only shots I ever fired were at a Tenryu or similar from 4 km. Also I think NTRabbit is being willfully dense, the reason why the counter play to US cruisers is more effective than counter play to carriers should be painfully obvious even to him. you don't counter a hellcat by driving in circles around it until it runs out of ammo
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Jul 20, 2015 17:25
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grrarg posted:Patience. Do not charge ahead at full speed as soon as the game starts. Wait and see where your team goes. If your side has carriers, wait until their planes show where the enemy is going. If you are a cruiser, go half speed so you do not outrun battleships. Be ready to turn around and run if your side collapses. Usually I start the match by going half speed in a direction until I see how things hash out. Do you alternate your behaviour based on what ship you're using, or is the rule of thumb "follow the deathball"?
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Jul 20, 2015 17:27
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KcDohl posted:If a cruiser started maneuvering late enough for someone to have the time to set up a cross pattern then yeah it's entirely his fault A turning cruiser: literally impossible to hit with air launched torpedoes.
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Jul 20, 2015 17:31
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