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Rulebook Heavily posted:I try to give every playbook I write at least ONE Bard-style ability for that reason. I mean, my Dwarf class has an ability which basically everyone loves which involves describing how a place fits into the long and tragic history of the Dwarven people. This sort of thing is both characterful and useful. So basically  as a power? Excellent.
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Jul 16, 2015 16:26
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Fenarisk posted:You can safely ignore any of my playbooks except the revised core classes and the pathfinder or whatever the Viking one was. The rest were done real early before I grasped the system better, so they're mostly garbage Don't be so hard on yourself, I actually really like the book. It's exactly the kind of character I like to play sometimes, I big dude who punches people and things.
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Jul 16, 2015 20:16
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Somfin posted:Mechanically, the Bard is the strongest class bar none. I think that's rules as intended though? The setting isn't a challenge that the GM writes and the players overcome, the setting is the result of the GM and players collaborating to tell a story. If the setting you've written can't withstand massive changes to major facets of it, then the setting you've written is not a Dungeon World setting.
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Jul 17, 2015 12:58
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That's true, but in a game of stories the person who can declare facts or shape the world through questions like that is king. It's no different from how "I declare this happens in the fiction because I cast this spell" is one of the most powerful overall mechanics in D&D, except it's more directly addressing the narrative. There is simply no comparison between the Bard's move and something like a +1 bonus from a Fighter advanced move. The game has the right idea by having Spout Lore be something anyone can do, but it falters a bit on moves like this.
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Jul 17, 2015 13:04
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The game is really designed around doing a dungeon crawl in a lot of ways, rather than high fantasy adventures saving the world. It works well for it but the classes don't always fit. Pretty much every base class aside from the ranger can do some really crazy poo poo to the narrative early on anyway.
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Jul 17, 2015 13:26
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Somfin posted:You show up at the gates of Heaven, the bard asks the question "Why is the left toe of the Divine Immortal Golem of Thrak its weak spot?" "He was held by this toe when his progenitor dipped him into the well of invulnerability." His toe is his weak spot, but it's only weak compared to the rest of his body. It's still a divine and immortal toe. Somfin posted:You get thrown into a prison cell, the bard asks "How do we activate the hidden exit concealed in this cell?" "There's a hidden switch a few cells down from where you're kept." The hidden exit is indeed in that cell! But it's an emergency exit for the nobility, to escort important people out of the castle. It's not for plucky prisoners. Somfin posted:You finally meet the Followers of the Sacred Helm, a noble paladin order, and the bard asks "Which single part of this religion is not a hollow lie?" "The part that grants us universal authority." The only part that matters. I let my players get away with a lot if everyone's having fun, but straight up trying to gently caress with a narrative that the rest of the party want to play out (or set up, since everyone contributes to the narrative) just so you get to be Mr. Cool Smart Hero Guy at every turn is asking for trouble. e: well, everyone should get to be Mr. Cool Smart Hero Guy at all times, but not if it keeps interfering with the experience of the rest of the party. It's the same as one player just impatiently stabbing the guy who needs help in exchange for a magic key or whatever. If the rest of the party is down for it, go ahead, shank that nerd and get out before the law shows up. But if everyone else wants to help this dude out for any number of reasons (future networking, allies later on, just being friendly, etc.) maybe you should cool it on the killing for a moment. Just because you have the power to do something doesn't mean you should do it. Babe Magnet fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Jul 18, 2015 |
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Jul 18, 2015 18:59
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I think for that Bash! move, I would change the trigger to When you heft a big, blunt weapon: The idea being to focus on being big and menacing, and encouraging the Brute to toss aside a used up weapon when he's out of hold so he can heft a new statue leg to swing around. Plus my version sounds like the setup to a dirty joke, and that's important.
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Jul 18, 2015 20:38
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Does anyone have a good source of DW magic items outside of the core book? If not then we should really collate the ones that presumably have appeared in this thread!
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Jul 18, 2015 22:14
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For a while, because I couldn't play or DM, I was making these big packs of items and monsters and stuff based around themes. Like a big one with gunpowder, with a couple of new tags and some items based around them, a few stories that were one or two paragraphs long to sell the theme, a few moves like Operate Cannon, and some stuff about mixing gunpowwder with alchemy or poisons to make hosed up crazy roid-juices or grenades. I should probably finish some of these...
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Jul 18, 2015 22:27
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Babe Magnet posted:For a while, because I couldn't play or DM, I was making these big packs of items and monsters and stuff based around themes. Like a big one with gunpowder, with a couple of new tags and some items based around them, a few stories that were one or two paragraphs long to sell the theme, a few moves like Operate Cannon, and some stuff about mixing gunpowwder with alchemy or poisons to make hosed up crazy roid-juices or grenades. Yeah, they sound pretty fun!
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Jul 18, 2015 22:55
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I'm wondering how many people here use a map or tiles during sessions? I don't really like using them because it slows down pacing a lot when you have to draw or lay out an area at the beginning of combat, but I've heard arguments that they really help players visualize the settings and come up with plans better. DW seems to be really barebones so trying to fit a map/minis into it would probably be clunky, but I'm interested in people's experiences with it either way.
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Jul 19, 2015 23:40
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Bazanga posted:I'm wondering how many people here use a map or tiles during sessions? I don't really like using them because it slows down pacing a lot when you have to draw or lay out an area at the beginning of combat, but I've heard arguments that they really help players visualize the settings and come up with plans better. DW seems to be really barebones so trying to fit a map/minis into it would probably be clunky, but I'm interested in people's experiences with it either way. I never use minis, but like the GM principles say, I draw maps all the time. You don't need to painstakingly count out how many 1" squares lie between the Altar of Calthathru'un and the door, but a 10-second sketch of "okay, the door you guys came in is here, the cursed altar is about here, and there are all these pillars scattered around the room like this (scribble a bunch of little circles)" goes a long way toward getting the players invested in the scene and sparking their creativity.
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Jul 20, 2015 00:51
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You guys would all go for a character class thats a thinly veiled adaptation of The Witcher, right?
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Jul 20, 2015 01:06
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Nemesis Of Moles posted:You guys would all go for a character class thats a thinly veiled adaptation of The Witcher, right? https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B94zELwEwdHsR3JTX1Vaek1FeHc/edit?pli=1
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Jul 20, 2015 01:55
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chaos rhames posted:Already got one, made by boing. Well, that saves me time!
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Jul 20, 2015 02:18
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I was about to suggest making a new class based on the first thing I saw on my desk but it was the cover of a Neil Gaiman book.
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Jul 20, 2015 03:55
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Bazanga posted:I'm wondering how many people here use a map or tiles during sessions? I don't really like using them because it slows down pacing a lot when you have to draw or lay out an area at the beginning of combat, but I've heard arguments that they really help players visualize the settings and come up with plans better. DW seems to be really barebones so trying to fit a map/minis into it would probably be clunky, but I'm interested in people's experiences with it either way. I use maps, and we usually grab some poker chips or coins to represent things. It helps out a ton.
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Jul 20, 2015 04:10
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I bought one of those Chessex maps. Hex on one side, squares on the other. The players listen to my description of the scene and collectively draw their interpretation. I correct where needed but sometimes their interpretation is better than what I had in mind so I just let that happen. Using a map has good and bad elements. It's good to have everyone on the same page about fictionally established facts, and creating the map can be fun, but giving players an exact map can put them in a sort of strategizing state of mind, which eats up a lot of time. I have had to stop them from Napoleon'ing fairly trivial encounters a couple of times now. Bottom line, if you can prevent your players from entering that zone, maps are a great tool. The world map I sketch on paper and I let the players add stuff when they or I mention a new location.
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Jul 20, 2015 12:52
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chaos rhames posted:I was about to suggest making a new class based on the first thing I saw on my desk but it was the cover of a Neil Gaiman book. The Edgy Author?
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Jul 20, 2015 15:01
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I never use maps or miniatures for combat in DW, but I bought a big A2 piece of white card from a print shop and used it as a world map in the Fellowship game I ran, sketching in details as we went along and asking players to contribute as they Perilous Journeyed or Spouted Lore. It was great, it really helped everyone get into it and feel like they contributed to the world.
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Jul 20, 2015 15:36
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What's going on with Fellowship, by the way? Has anything more come out of that?
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Jul 20, 2015 16:35
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Yeah, to clarify, when I use maps, they're usually drawn intentionally vague. I used to do cartography as a hobby so I can poo poo out a quick elevation map or a town layout in like a minute or two, and that's what my group will work with. I don't usually use color or detail or grids or anything. It's only so that my players can look down at the map and know at a glance if they're surrounded by too many gremlins and should be thinking about an exit strategy, or if the Fighter's going to be close enough to use as a human shield against the hurricane elemental.
Babe Magnet fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Jul 20, 2015 |
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Jul 20, 2015 17:34
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Infinite Oregano posted:Does anyone have a good source of DW magic items outside of the core book? You can try browsing the DW Tavern with the Magic Items post filter enabled. There are also a couple of products up on DTRPG with 4+ star ratings that fit the bill.
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Jul 20, 2015 17:40
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zarathud posted:You can try browsing the DW Tavern with the Magic Items post filter enabled. Thanks! Also to the thread in general: How would you expect Adept hirelings to interact with spellcasting moves that don't rely on leveled effects (unlike the default spellcasting classes), such as gnome's Mage and Priest playbooks, and similar things. For reference: quote:Arcane Assistance—When an adept aids in the casting of a spell of lower level than their skill, the spell’s effects have greater range, duration, or potency.[...]
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Jul 20, 2015 19:03
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Loki_XLII posted:What's going on with Fellowship, by the way? Has anything more come out of that? News With Fellowship: It is still being worked on, but I just got very sidetracked with a lot of different things in my life so progress is slow. It's also undergone roughly 4 or 5 rewrites to the very core rules, so it's been changing a bit to better fit the feel of it and be less "Dungeon World But Different." It's in a solid place right now but I have a lot more to write before its presentable/workable in its current state - some parts of the book are still on older rules and need updating/reworking. It's coming along, I'm just giving it my all and a bit too perfectionist about it. I am glad I didn't do a kickstarter for it yet or the guilt over the delays would be literally killing me. Infinite Oregano posted:Thanks! Mostly, I don't use the Adept. It's definitely the most niche and least useful of the various hirelings to begin with, and as soon as you move outside of the core playbooks almost nobody kept the awful Vancian spellcasting, so there's no reason to keep Adepts either.
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Jul 20, 2015 19:36
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Peas and Rice posted:The Edgy Author? gay man.
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Jul 20, 2015 22:30
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you rang
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Jul 20, 2015 23:42
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Hey guys - new to this game and I find the idea very interesting. A question about Bonds though - how do some Bonds like "I have shared a secret with _______ " ever get resolved? Is blabbing the secret the only way to resolve this?
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Jul 21, 2015 15:24
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It gets resolved whenever something happens that you feel resolves that bond. That sounds more flippant than it should, but that bond could get resolved by the secret being revealed through play, by you going "Egads [Blank], its the secret master of the secret temple I told you about, back again!" when the GM introduces a character. It could be resolved by, at the end of a long drawn out fight against the Dragon-Lich GodKing of Underworld, you unleash your secret technique, shared only with your closest bond, who of course has their own role to play in your special move. Or blabbing it. Whatever works for you really.
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Jul 21, 2015 15:55
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Unzip and Attack posted:Hey guys - new to this game and I find the idea very interesting. A question about Bonds though - how do some Bonds like "I have shared a secret with _______ " ever get resolved? Is blabbing the secret the only way to resolve this? What Nemesis said, but it could also be that the circumstances mean the bond is no longer relevant, which also allows for it to be resolved. The rules specifically state: "A bond is resolved when it no longer describes how you relate to that person...Any time you look at a bond and think 'that’s not a big factor in how we relate anymore' the bond is at a good place to resolve." Therefore, the secret doesn't necessarily have to be revealed for the bond to be resolved. Maybe PC #2 knows that your right hand was transplanted from a demon - since the arm was torn off and now sits in the gut of a troll - it may longer matter that your former appendage was tainted. Maybe PC #2 was mind wiped when he drank from the Pool of Eternity and has forgotten your secret. Maybe PC #2 knew that you are secretly the "Black Fox" who stole from the hoard of King Roderick, who put a bounty on your head - when the Barbarian slays the King for some perceived slight, the bounty is likely cancelled and the secret no longer matters.
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Jul 21, 2015 17:56
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zarathud posted:Maybe PC #2 knew that you are secretly the "Black Fox" who stole from the hoard of King Roderick, who put a bounty on your head - when the Barbarian slays the King for some perceived slight, the bounty is likely cancelled and the secret no longer matters. Or possibly when someone with the sharpest eyes and the keenest nose and the quickest ears and the fleetest toes finally manages to outfox the Fox?
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Jul 21, 2015 18:08
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The other secret is that the overwhelming majority of default bonds are awful. If you actually look at the section of the book about writing bonds, most of them don't even remotely resemble what you're supposed to write.
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Jul 21, 2015 20:20
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After a while of playing my group just stopped using bonds since character relationships like that tend to happen naturally anyway.
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Jul 21, 2015 20:22
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Yeah, that's not a bad policy. They're meant to encourage that play, but when you're at the point where it happens anyway you don't need to reward it as much.
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Jul 21, 2015 20:24
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It's also a weird thing to encourage because it makes the character interaction more mechanical. It makes relationships "put coin in slot, recieve XP" instead of anything natural.
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Jul 22, 2015 08:40
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Bonds are good. In RPGs where the mechanics incentivizing interparty reactions and relationship arcs are not clear to everyone and have inconsistent rewards, the game is worse for it. Even if you think the group has outgrown the "training wheels" of bonds and are too altruistic for the reward of XP it's still a courtesy to everyone to be able to point to a bond as a RP focus, and important to the theme of being a party of adventurers who are growing together that they gain XP for it. Alignment is the same, "be true to yourself, grow in power" and people seem pretty down on it too. Also Aid/Interfere, moves that have had huge moments in games I've been in, rely on bonds. That said I kinda get why people playing DW like reskinning Alignment, or prefer Hx to bonds, or just axing both of them and XP altogether and just leveling up whenever the DM or everyone feels it's the right time. It gets me thinking that maybe XP should be more than just a bar that fills up to raise your level.
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Jul 22, 2015 13:49
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Honestly, XP is a play incentive. And in some ways, kind of a cheap one at that. I'm all for rewarding good play, but XP is increasingly proving itself to be a pretty bad carrot to dangle for drat near everything you do. That's not a problem I'll solve easily in DW as written, though.
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Jul 22, 2015 13:58
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I think my favourite variation on xp gaining and levelling up was a pbta game based on the slayers universe.It's whole system was once a session the player gets to level up. They pick when they do it. So it can be a really cool moment. Bad guy getting you down? Got all of your friends held hostage? Drop a level up and kick some rear end with your brand new move and stat up. I just find that a rather cool little thing. Gives a bit of player agency. Though the system isn't really ment for long term campaigns.
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Jul 22, 2015 16:28
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In my campaigns, players seemed to notice "Hey, we fulfilled our bond!" during downtime, so it mixed a mechanical reward with good roleplaying cues.
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Jul 22, 2015 18:51
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Rulebook Heavily posted:Honestly, XP is a play incentive. And in some ways, kind of a cheap one at that. I'm all for rewarding good play, but XP is increasingly proving itself to be a pretty bad carrot to dangle for drat near everything you do. Do you mean for DW, or in general? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this, since I've been puttering around with a few ideas that involve messing with the paradigm of experience-as-reinforcement.
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Jul 22, 2015 20:08
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