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Whoa. I knew people didn't like him, but drat. All I knew about him was I remember hearing his name a lot as a kid and then just stopped hearing about him.
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Jul 23, 2015 03:07
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Unmature posted:It was really great. Dunno what kept me away from it for so long. I bought #114 when it came out, but I don't think my twelve year old brain could handle Quitely's art just yet. I started to get a little bored with it in the last two or three story arcs when it got away from the school stuff, but overall loved it. Same boat in terms of getting scared of Quitely's art as a kid. I still don't like how Magneto went down near the end, even though I like the idea of Xorn being Magneto, if that makes sense. Unmature posted:Is Austen's run worth reading at all? How do you feel about exploding communion wafers?
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Jul 23, 2015 03:09
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Probably Magic posted:How do you feel about exploding communion wafers? ...I'm kind of for it.
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Jul 23, 2015 03:10
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Cabbit posted:Am I going to be the odd one out if I say 'no'? That was like.. way too fast, and seemed ludicrously heavy handed. I was expecting it to end up being an illusion by the Stepfords at the end, with a 'and this is why we shouldn't go public' thing. Like, the dude was popular and accepted as a hero and, no, suddenly we're all ravenously bloodthirsty because of you being a mutant. It's also incredibly bad because a group of young mutants striking out on their own not under an X-Men banner like the decided in the previous issue is a hell of a lot more interesting an idea than "oops, guess we should be JGS background cameos after all"
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Jul 23, 2015 03:21
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There's actually no post Secret Wars comics for either school announced.
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Jul 23, 2015 03:24
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I liked Magneto better when he was walking places and doing things instead of floating in place talking to himself.
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Jul 23, 2015 03:31
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Probably Magic posted:Same boat in terms of getting scared of Quitely's art as a kid. I still don't like how Magneto went down near the end, even though I like the idea of Xorn being Magneto, if that makes sense. Did Morrison know that wasn't real Magneto while he was writing him or was it retconned? It felt to me like he was intentionally writing it as a fake, sort of man out of time Magneto. He was acting like a 60's comicbook villain tossed into the middle of an early 2000s Morrison-y story.
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Jul 23, 2015 03:38
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Unmature posted:Did Morrison know that wasn't real Magneto while he was writing him or was it retconned? It felt to me like he was intentionally writing it as a fake, sort of man out of time Magneto. He was acting like a 60's comicbook villain tossed into the middle of an early 2000s Morrison-y story. Morrison intended it to be the real Magneto.
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Jul 23, 2015 03:39
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I'm glad Marvel thought it was as stupid an idea as I did
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Jul 23, 2015 03:49
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Unmature posted:Is Austen's run worth reading at all? NO NO NO NO NO. Unless you hate yourself and the X-Men and comics in general. Then sure.
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Jul 23, 2015 03:56
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Or you want to wade through a mile of poo poo for, like, three good Juggernaut moments.
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Jul 23, 2015 03:57
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Aphrodite posted:There's actually no post Secret Wars comics for either school announced. So are the X-Men cancelled?
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Jul 23, 2015 04:21
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School's out. FOREVER.
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Jul 23, 2015 04:23
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Cocks Cable posted:So are the X-Men cancelled? There's like 4 X-Men books but none of the solicitations mention the schools. Cyclops, Emma Frost and some others are missing as part of the time jump though so they may possibly be involved in that plot.
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Jul 23, 2015 04:28
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Mr. Maltose posted:Or you want to wade through a mile of poo poo for, like, three good Juggernaut moments. I miss Squid-Boy. 
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Jul 23, 2015 04:29
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Aphrodite posted:There's like 4 X-Men books but none of the solicitations mention the schools. Oh, I was worried the X-Men were going the way of the F4.
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Jul 23, 2015 04:34
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Aphrodite posted:There's like 4 X-Men books but none of the solicitations mention the schools. In total iirc there are 5 X-Men books: an Old Man Logan solo, an X-23/Wolverine solo, All-New (time-displaced Cyclops, Iceman, Beast, and Angel (listed as 'Archangel') and X-23/Wolverine), Extraordinary (Old Man Logan, Jean Grey, Storm, Iceman, Nightcrawler, Colossus, and Magik), and Uncanny (Magneto, Mystique, Psylocke, Sabertooth, and Fantomex). None of them are running a "school", but there's a chance there will be another series announced later.
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Jul 23, 2015 04:34
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I tend to agree with Paul O'Brien: Austen is as bad as it gets. It helps that there haven't been quite as many X-Men writers as one would expect, since so much of the body of work is just Claremont, but Austen is easily the worst writer to ever be given an extended run, and there's a big gap between him and whoever's second worst. I'd argue it's Lobdell, and Lobdell wasn't that bad. (Michael Higgins's Uncanny X-Men Annual set during Atlantis Attacks is really bad in kind of a hilarious way, but it's one issue.) More to the point, he's really uneven, which makes it interesting. He handled Juggernaut very well for the most part and is one of the primary authors behind his short-lived stint as a hero. His dialogue often isn't awful, and he had a couple of decent arcs on Exiles. On the other hand, if you were to compile a list of the bottom ten arcs in the history of the X-Men, at least two of the bottom three would be from Austen and it wouldn't even be a contest. It's just a question of which one gets #1.
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Jul 23, 2015 04:37
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quote:I'd argue it's Lobdell, and Lobdell wasn't that bad. Lobdell has the awesome issue of Cannonball vs Gladiator bobkatt013 fucked around with this message at 04:46 on Jul 23, 2015 |
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Jul 23, 2015 04:43
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Did they mess up the cover again? That's Emma and Cyclops and they don't even appear.
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Jul 23, 2015 04:44
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Wanderer posted:I tend to agree with Paul O'Brien: Austen is as bad as it gets. It helps that there haven't been quite as many X-Men writers as one would expect, since so much of the body of work is just Claremont, but Austen is easily the worst writer to ever be given an extended run, and there's a big gap between him and whoever's second worst. I'd argue it's Lobdell, and Lobdell wasn't that bad. (Michael Higgins's Uncanny X-Men Annual set during Atlantis Attacks is really bad in kind of a hilarious way, but it's one issue.) Does Claremont's 2nd run not count as a "writer" in it's own? Because I would say that was easily the second worst. Lobdell was just very mediocre with very few original bright spots (mainly AoA).
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Jul 23, 2015 05:03
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Cocks Cable posted:Lobdell was just very mediocre with very few original bright spots (mainly AoA). That's my point. There are surprisingly few writers who've had a go at the X-Men, since so much of the body of work is from just one guy, and post-Claremont, it tends to be an exalted position. Lobdell is near the bottom, and the worst thing you can say about Lobdell is that he's the Dan Slott of his day; he's funny, he does all right with quieter issues, but he doesn't do "epic" well despite multiple attempts. Hell, I'd say that Bendis is just above Lobdell and Bendis's runs are best characterized in my mind as "inoffensive." If you take Claremont's body of work as a whole, and I'd argue that you should, he's yet to do anything in his post-1992 insane period that strikes the best of his work from the table. It sinks his average but doesn't completely torpedo it. Hell, if you expand the list to include the Ultimate universe, I'd say Kirkman is probably somewhere between Austen and Lobdell, though still nowhere near Austen.
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Jul 23, 2015 05:33
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If you include Ultimate X-Men, you actually improve Austen's aggregate score ironically enough.
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Jul 23, 2015 05:37
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Cabbit posted:Am I going to be the odd one out if I say 'no'? That was like.. way too fast, and seemed ludicrously heavy handed. I was expecting it to end up being an illusion by the Stepfords at the end, with a 'and this is why we shouldn't go public' thing. Like, the dude was popular and accepted as a hero and, no, suddenly we're all ravenously bloodthirsty because of you being a mutant. Yeah I'm in your boat I was constantly waiting for it to be some kind of Danger Room sim, at either school, or a thing done by the Stepfords. This was just really loving sloppy and I feel it was pressed on Bendis to wrap because it was gonna be some long drawn out thing but then Secret Wars happened. So it was wrapped up in the laziest way possible.
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Jul 23, 2015 06:19
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It's more likely because Uncanny was about Cyclops, not the students, so their story was wrapped up quickly.
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Jul 23, 2015 06:25
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Jiro posted:Yeah I'm in your boat I was constantly waiting for it to be some kind of Danger Room sim, at either school, or a thing done by the Stepfords. This was just really loving sloppy and I feel it was pressed on Bendis to wrap because it was gonna be some long drawn out thing but then Secret Wars happened. So it was wrapped up in the laziest way possible. This is my biggest complaint with Secret Wars, it's derailing all the cool poo poo going on elsewhere.
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Jul 23, 2015 08:32
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To me, X-Men has a pretty solid through-line from the first issue onward that Morrison & Austen both broke. It kind of demonstrates that you can break something in comics if you have the story to back it up. You could stop reading some time after the Dark Phoenix saga and pick Morrison's stuff up and not be that confused, because he fairly blatantly ignored most of the arcs that happened after that point (which is why some of his stuff was probably unintentionally similar to some of the mid 90s Magneto arcs because the character's inevitable future was pretty laid out by Claremont by like the mid 70s, so no surprise more than one writer picked up on it). Austen on the other hand just kind of seemed to know who the characters were, kind of, sort of, and not much else. So I'll always forgive Lobdell because he basically had that weight of having to keep what in some cases was like 30 year old subplots chugging along without much room for original stuff. He didn't have the luxury of just getting to break everything and just write the X-men through the lens of his favorite period like basically every other writer thereafter did (with the exception maybe being Carey, who seemed to have a pretty good grasp on the whole thing, not just his favorite era).
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Jul 23, 2015 08:35
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Cabbit posted:This is my biggest complaint with Secret Wars, it's derailing all the cool poo poo going on elsewhere. Woah, woah, woah, I would never call whatever Bendis has been trying to do in Uncanny as cool. More like meandering in circles to nowhere for a super long rear end time. I do think that if you're going to specifically run a book in its own self contained thing then you probably should just hit the pause button on it and pick it up after the event is over. Have some side stories with the goldballs and friends coping with after the end of everything or blah and then just move on from there. But honestly Secret Wars and its spin offs are way better than current x-books by far save for Spider-Man and the X-Men. Old Man Logan is far and away the best story Bendis has done with mutants so far.
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Jul 23, 2015 11:59
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Bendis has never been good with pacing. He's always done the 'slow burn slow burn oh poo poo I have three issues left better wrap this up ASAP' bit.
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Jul 23, 2015 12:41
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Wanderer posted:I tend to agree with Paul O'Brien: Austen is as bad as it gets. It helps that there haven't been quite as many X-Men writers as one would expect, since so much of the body of work is just Claremont, but Austen is easily the worst writer to ever be given an extended run, and there's a big gap between him and whoever's second worst. I'd argue it's Lobdell, and Lobdell wasn't that bad. The top three are always Claremont, Morrison and Whedon. I'm not sure if there's anyone I could see being added to make it a top four. Austen's always at the bottom but two that I've seen placed just above him fairly consistently are actually Alan Davis and Matt Fraction (I like the former's X-Men a lot and haven't really read the latter). I think you might need to go to Robert Kirkman's run in Ultimate X-Men to find the second-worst run. 
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Jul 23, 2015 14:14
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Wheat Loaf posted:I'm not sure if there's anyone I could see being added to make it a top four. Dude, Mike Carey and Kieron Gillen. Fabian Nicieza from side books. I wish any of these people were back instead of Hopeless, but at least Bendis is gone.
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Jul 23, 2015 14:53
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Man, I loved Gillen's run.
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Jul 23, 2015 14:56
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Wheat Loaf posted:The top three are always Claremont, Morrison and Whedon. I'm not sure if there's anyone I could see being added to make it a top four. Austen's always at the bottom but two that I've seen placed just above him fairly consistently are actually Alan Davis and Matt Fraction (I like the former's X-Men a lot and haven't really read the latter).
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Jul 23, 2015 15:05
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Whedon had a fun run and did some cool things with the core team, but those delays essentially divorced it from the rest of the X-Men and Marvel U at the time which shouldn't be the case for a flagship X book. It told its own story but didn't really define anything essential.
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Jul 23, 2015 15:18
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hope and vaseline posted:Whedon had a fun run and did some cool things with the core team, but those delays essentially divorced it from the rest of the X-Men and Marvel U at the time which shouldn't be the case for a flagship X book. It told its own story but didn't really define anything essential. That doesn't make it bad. It's an excellent story, how it ties into the rest of the universe shouldn't really matter. That would disqualify a lot of great comics as fantastic stories like New Frontier or Kingdom Come.
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Jul 23, 2015 15:22
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Unmature posted:That doesn't make it bad. It's an excellent story, how it ties into the rest of the universe shouldn't really matter. That would disqualify a lot of great comics as fantastic stories like New Frontier or Kingdom Come. I'd argue that to make it a top X-Men comic it would have to have more influence than just telling a good story. Claremont basically defined an entire era of X-Men comics and Morrison's had reverberating effects that have surpassed the immediate retcons at the end of his run. What exactly has Whedon's run influenced?
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Jul 23, 2015 15:28
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It was perfectly fine. I'd put Carey and Gillen way ahead of Whedon.
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Jul 23, 2015 15:29
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hope and vaseline posted:Whedon had a fun run and did some cool things with the core team, but those delays essentially divorced it from the rest of the X-Men and Marvel U at the time The X-men are always divorced from the larger Marvel U.
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Jul 23, 2015 15:30
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I know he wrote significantly more issues, but I feel like putting Whedon in the conversation for "best runs on X-Men" is kind of like putting Jeph Loeb on the list of "best Daredevil runs" for Yellow, or something.
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Jul 23, 2015 15:39
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Edge & Christian posted:I know he wrote significantly more issues, but I feel like putting Whedon in the conversation for "best runs on X-Men" is kind of like putting Jeph Loeb on the list of "best Daredevil runs" for Yellow, or something. But yellow was just a retelling of early Daredevil comics. His run also brought back Colossus, introduced SWORD, and got rid of Kitty for a while.
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Jul 23, 2015 15:54
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