|
Crotch Fruit posted:I think you mean the Tesla looks like a nice normal car, but the Prius and Insight look like space age toys because douche bag marketers obsessed with young people think they need to look like that. Fixed. As for Tesla competition, it looks like it's starting to come along. quote:Finally, new details are starting to emerge about BMW’s third installment in its i-Series range. The i5 will be the first sedan in the group of electrically assisted vehicles, and its sights are squarely set on the Tesla Model S. http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/bmw-i5-sedan-performance-specs-news-rumors/
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2015 11:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 14:07 |
|
|
Ola posted:Fixed. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2015 13:35
|
|
|
Collateral Damage posted:To be fair though all modern hatchbacks look like Except the Model S!
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2015 14:27
|
|
|
I think there are many nice looking cars on the market today, hatchbacks and sedans. The ones I like seem to have one thing in common, the designers said "let's go with something simple and elegant, not the pretend spaceship poo poo the Don Draper wannabes rave about". I think the best looking electric car second to the Model S is the e-Golf. Looks slightly more futuristic than a regular Golf, but is just a wholesome, pleasing Golf.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2015 14:57
|
|
|
The i-Miev looks like what all the made for TV 90s scifi shows promised us, so it's the coolest EV.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2015 15:42
|
|
|
http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/07/electric-vehicle-batteries-are-getting-cheaper-much-faster-than-we-expected/ Apparently in 2013 the battery pack was only 25% of the Model S cost, wonder how low it is now.
|
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2015 15:52
|
|
|
And just like that my new P85D falls to be the second fastest Tesla  New options get you a 90kwh (P90D?) with an option for "Ludicrous Speed" which will get you to 60mph in 2.8 sec at 1.1G. http://www.theverge.com/2015/7/17/8994519/tesla-ludicrous-speed-model-s
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2015 20:07
|
|
|
eeenmachine posted:And just like that my new P85D falls to be the second fastest Tesla I read elsewhere that it isn't just an option on new cars. It's an $10k upgrade on existing P85Ds. You can reclaim your throne.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2015 20:11
|
|
|
No after-delivery upgrade? I only just got my plates for the P85D! e: woo
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2015 20:12
|
|
|
KilroyWasHere posted:I read elsewhere that it isn't just an option on new cars. It's an $10k upgrade on existing P85Ds. You can reclaim your throne. Actually, it's $5K + labour. quote:In appreciation of our existing P85D owners, the upgraded pack electronics will be offered for the next six months at only $5k plus installation labor.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2015 20:16
|
|
|
Subjunctive posted:Actually, it's $5K + labour. Sweet Jesus yes.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2015 21:16
|
|
|
eeenmachine posted:Sweet Jesus yes. Right?
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2015 21:18
|
|
|
Service dept says they just found out about it too, and don't know what the process is going to be yet. Was told to call back in a week. Also, I just realized that the Model X is an SUV that can do 3.3. Gonna crush some little soccer players.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2015 22:24
|
|
|
MrYenko posted:As a reminder, when there are more than 250,000 PEVs sold in a calendar year in the U.S., the $7,500 tax credit evaporates, and stays gone. It's 250k per manufacturer. If Tesla sells 250k cars they no longer qualify, but unless BMW has sold 250k EVs then you'll still get a tax credit on an i3 or i8 or whatever. blugu64 posted:The i-Miev looks like what all the made for TV 90s scifi shows promised us, so it's the coolest EV. As long as you never, ever drive on, you may continue thinking this. I think the i-MiEV is the second worst car I've ever driven (after a 2012 Malibu I had as a rental car once because I was an idiot and didn't take the Mazda 6). drgitlin fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Jul 18, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2015 15:07
|
|
|
drgitlin posted:It's 250k per manufacturer. If Tesla sells 250k cars they no longer qualify, but unless BMW has sold 250k EVs then you'll still get a tax credit on an i3 or i8 or whatever. Ahhhhhaaaa. I couldn't divine that from the law. Reading legalese gives me a headache. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2015 17:02
|
|
|
So my friend's household is now ICE free. Traded in their Skoda and got a lightly used Nissan Leaf, in addition to their recently acquired Renault Fluence. The Leaf is very nice, I got to drive it. Had more or less every option available. Surprisingly quiet, very easy to go above the limit in.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 11:43
|
|
|
Cockmaster posted:Isn't that mostly because all their revenue gets reinvested towards the goal of making cars that commoners like us can afford (such as with the $5 billion battery plant)? Yes, that's exactly what is going on. The cars themselves are running at a profit and has been for two years, but there a lot of capex being spent. There's the SUV and the new cheaper model coming along and being tooled up - there's not just the gigafactory but other plant and equipment to expand. It turns outexpanding a major car company and doubling the world's output of batteries takes huge capital cost. Frankly if they are expecting to pull a profit in five years time after that kind of expenditure then that's impressive. Some major mining projects that cost billions dont turn a profit for 20 years - no one questions those and in fact those get far bigger govt handouts. What Tesla is getting in tax breaks and subsidies is a piss in the park compared to agriculture and mining and yet the return in taxes and jobs eventually is probably going to be greater from what Tesla is doing.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 13:00
|
|
|
I've been reading this thread, that WBW article on Tesla, and asking a couple questions in the A/T car buying thread. Now I'm thinking pretty strongly about going electric in a couple years, when the lease on my Mazda3 ends. Maybe even sooner if I get a real bug up my rear end and find someone to take the lease, though I'm aware that that's financially a losing decision Couple questions I figure I'd ask in here-- - I asked this in the A/T thread but didn't get much answer besides "a lot". I live in Las Vegas NV, a land of 115F-at-worst summers, so the air conditioner's running full blast in the summers, at least for the first ten minutes or so of a drive after being parked outdoors (thank god for garages). How much does that suck away at the range of a typical EV? (By typical I mean something I can actually afford to lease without a trade-in--so not a Model S or an i3 )- Anyone own one and not have access to L2 (220v?) charging? How well/badly does it work out for you? I live in an apartment so my odds of getting them to rewire the garage (or even being allowed to pay for it myself) are slim at best. Some 90% of my driving is a 20mi/daily work commute though, and I almost never go more than 60 miles in a single day anyway, to get to/from the skeet/trap range at the far north end of town. - For Americans, do you usually roll the $7.5k tax credit back into the lease/purchase, or will the dealership do that for you, or...? Ciaphas fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Jul 22, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 19:00
|
|
|
Ciaphas posted:I've been reading this thread, that WBW article on Tesla, and asking a couple questions in the A/T car buying thread. Now I'm thinking pretty strongly about going electric in a couple years, when the lease on my Mazda3 ends. Maybe even sooner if I get a real bug up my rear end and find someone to take the lease, though I'm aware that that's financially a losing decision The Leaf says how many miles the AC is draining and it's usually not more than a couple for me and I'm in south Texas, not as many as the heater drains, that's for sure. And if you're plugged in, all EVs should be using the outlet to run the AC instead of the battery. I don't have a lvl 2 anywhere but public stations, I just use the normal outlet at my apartment and at work. Works out fine since my commute isn't that long either. If you purchase, the credit is obtained when you file your taxes, I'm not sure if the dealership can give you an advance and take the credit. For a lease, the dealer gets the credit and you get a discount.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 20:27
|
|
|
Ciaphas posted:Las Vegas I'm in Vegas and I own a 2015 Leaf SL. I don't have an L2 charger at home and usually don't need it. I have a standard 120V plug in the garage and I charge overnight. If I run the battery way down, sometimes it doesn't get all the way back to 100% overnight. It hasn't been a real problem for me yet, though. The A/C doesn't really eat power. The heat does, though. The car runs less efficiently when the temp is over maybe 100. If I have a lot of errands I will have to do a midday L2 or L3 charge. This may just be my perception, though - I haven't done any kind of real objective measurement. Vegas has a shitton of free public charging. Go get the Plugshare app and have a look around. The only charger in town that costs money is the Greenlots CHAdeMO L3 at Tahiti Village Resort. Everything else is free. The tax credit isn't something you get to roll back in. If you buy the car, you file an extra piece of paper with your taxes and it shows up in your refund check. If you lease, you don't get poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 23:45
|
|
|
Ola posted:I think there are many nice looking cars on the market today, hatchbacks and sedans. The ones I like seem to have one thing in common, the designers said "let's go with something simple and elegant, not the pretend spaceship poo poo the Don Draper wannabes rave about". I think the best looking electric car second to the Model S is the e-Golf. Looks slightly more futuristic than a regular Golf, but is just a wholesome, pleasing Golf. I just picked up an E-Golf a few months ago. I think it's just such an incredible little vehicle. The interior is amazing, like they ripped it straight out of a lux-Audi setup. The roominess is fantastic, the stock features are really high-end including the REALLY good premium-level audio system. Everything just seems measured and useful. The running lights are awesome and people comment on them all the time as no one else really has a running light setup like that, and I think it's one of the best on the road. It's a really nice mix of hatchback sensibility and performance look, and with the snappy electric engine, it feels high performance and it's easy to leave people in the dust at stop lights etc. Oh and when you use the rear view camera, the Volkswagen symbol on the back pops up and a spy camera comes out like in James Bond. There are just so many cool touches on the car, both interior and exterior. Between the running lights, the quality of construction, the silent operation and the premium sound system, it just gives the outward appearance of being such a luxurious vehicle. It's the kind of car that people just look at while you're driving by. You drive down a crowded street and just see people staring. I started out really liking the car, and I only love it more as time goes by. So incredibly glad I chose it over the Leaf. I'm also hoping that due to the new modular build process on the Volks production line, that they'll be able to install a new larger battery when that becomes a thing.
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 23:45
|
|
|
Thanks for the great info, I had no idea Vegas had much in the way of free charging. That makes me far less worried about the idea of going without a 240v (220? I always forget) circuit in the garage. Now I've just gotta wait two years on my Mazda lease... 
|
|
#
?
Jul 22, 2015 23:56
|
|
|
CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:Yes, that's exactly what is going on. The cars themselves are running at a profit and has been for two years, but there a lot of capex being spent. There's the SUV and the new cheaper model coming along and being tooled up - there's not just the gigafactory but other plant and equipment to expand. And now I've been hearing that they're planning on bringing out a new Roadster when they're done with all that.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2015 02:50
|
|
|
Yeah, in four years, will have a speed above ludicrous (reputedly "plaid").
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2015 03:00
|
|
|
Ciaphas posted:Now I've just gotta wait two years on my Mazda lease... EVs will get much better and quite possibly cheaper in those two years so you shouldn't feel bad. Enjoy what you have now and enjoy your EV when you get it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2015 04:15
|
|
|
Advent Horizon posted:EVs will get much better and quite possibly cheaper in those two years so you shouldn't feel bad. Enjoy what you have now and enjoy your EV when you get it. I've decided today that I'm going to have to hang on to my crappy Hyundai for another five years, so I really hope you are right. (I'm sure you are.)
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2015 04:22
|
|
|
Advent Horizon posted:EVs will get much better and quite possibly cheaper in those two years so you shouldn't feel bad. Enjoy what you have now and enjoy your EV when you get it. There's a reason my mustang is a month away and my Tesla is half a decade away.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2015 05:22
|
|
|
I hope some obscure company finds a way to engineer a pointless manual transmission EV (i am aware they basically do not need shifting transmissions). I love the idea of going fuel-free on my commute but i am not capable of dealing with an automatic-style transmission. I just can not.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2015 06:39
|
|
|
I saw my first Tesla Model S taxi here today. The taxi biz here has a big carrot/stick thing going on to encourage their drivers to get green vehicles, so for instance you're not allowed in the airport taxi dock unless your car is above a certain environmental class, but the taxi companies reward their drivers for going with greener vehicles too.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2015 10:25
|
|
|
MattD1zzl3 posted:I hope some obscure company finds a way to engineer a pointless manual transmission EV (i am aware they basically do not need shifting transmissions). I love the idea of going fuel-free on my commute but i am not capable of dealing with an automatic-style transmission. I just can not. When you say pointless manual transmission, do you mean a lever in the center console or an actual manual transmission which isn't really needed, so you can row through the gears? All current EVs I know of are direct drive (apart from one of the Brammo bikes) with a PRND selector. So the selector is automatic in style but the driving experience is like a manual in the sense that there is no slushy torque converter between the motor and the wheels but solid steel all the way. EVs tend to top out at lower speeds than ICE cars, more gears would help that but for the vast majority of uses, the only gear is also the right gear.  eGolf center console. I really like that in D you can select the desired regen braking by moving the stick sideways.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2015 10:56
|
|
|
MattD1zzl3 posted:I hope some obscure company finds a way to engineer a pointless manual transmission EV (i am aware they basically do not need shifting transmissions). I love the idea of going fuel-free on my commute but i am not capable of dealing with an automatic-style transmission. I just can not. They don't really need a "transmission" at all, manual or auto. Like Ola says, the motor just hooks up to the wheels, no clutch, no slush, just like a big RC car. They're actually so direct that a lot of work has to go into the throttle controls as a 1:1 direct throttle control would have you spinning the wheels constantly. EDIT: there was a local company doing EV conversions a few years ago and they would mate up the motor to the stock manual gearbox of the car and then you just left it in something like 3rd the whole time. ReelBigLizard fucked around with this message at 11:32 on Jul 23, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2015 11:27
|
|
|
Ciaphas posted:- I asked this in the A/T thread but didn't get much answer besides "a lot". I live in Las Vegas NV, a land of 115F-at-worst summers, so the air conditioner's running full blast in the summers, at least for the first ten minutes or so of a drive after being parked outdoors (thank god for garages). How much does that suck away at the range of a typical EV? (By typical I mean something I can actually afford to lease without a trade-in--so not a Model S or an i3 I have a 2015 Leaf. I find that AC cuts as much as 20% of the range off on a bad day, but most days aren't bad; you can improve that by precooling it while it's still plugged in, and by leaving it on auto mode (which ramps down the AC once it reaches your target temperature). My biggest complaint is actually about the heater. I have the Leaf SV, which heats by running the AC "in reverse" rather than using the much less efficient resistive-coil heater on the Leaf S, so the power usage is equivalent -- but you can't set the target temperature less than 18°, so in the winter it's always running full blast if you leave it on auto. I've started ignoring the heater and just using the heated seats and steering wheel. quote:- Anyone own one and not have access to L2 (220v?) charging? How well/badly does it work out for you? I live in an apartment so my odds of getting them to rewire the garage (or even being allowed to pay for it myself) are slim at best. Some 90% of my driving is a 20mi/daily work commute though, and I almost never go more than 60 miles in a single day anyway, to get to/from the skeet/trap range at the far north end of town. I have a garage, but rewiring it for L2 charging would be so expensive that I just charge it from 110V. It's fine. My commute is 30% of the battery and it'll easily recharge that overnight; if I've drained it almost completely it won't recharge completely overnight, but it'll get most of the way there.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2015 12:04
|
|
|
MattD1zzl3 posted:I hope some obscure company finds a way to engineer a pointless manual transmission EV (i am aware they basically do not need shifting transmissions). I love the idea of going fuel-free on my commute but i am not capable of dealing with an automatic-style transmission. I just can not. Sucks to be you then because that will never, ever, happen.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2015 12:38
|
|
|
ReelBigLizard posted:
Thats effectively an auto, I'd rather take the EV bus. To each their own but I dont know how you guys deal with it. But i'm also very passionate about EV's and transitioning away from fossil fuel is something i want to be a part of. I just drgitlin posted:Sucks to be you then because that will never, ever, happen. I know I knew that before i posted. Thanks everyone for responding to an odd query.
MattD1zzl3 fucked around with this message at 13:00 on Jul 23, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2015 12:50
|
|
|
Cockmaster posted:And now I've been hearing that they're planning on bringing out a new Roadster when they're done with all that. Model S90D driveline into a lighter and smaller car? Plaid Speed right there.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2015 13:01
|
|
|
MattD1zzl3 posted:Thats effectively an auto, I'd rather take the EV bus. To each their own but I dont know how you guys deal with it. But i'm also very passionate about EV's and transitioning away from fossil fuel is something i want to be a part of. I still don't understand this query. Is it the act of changing gears that you like, and you want to keep it in the car? Or is it something about the behavior of an automatic transmission that annoys you? EVs do not drive like gas-powered automatics at all. I too prefer manual to automatics, because automatics usually has some really annoying gear changing behavior. I vastly prefer manual to a slushy automatic and I vastly prefer EV direct drive to a gas powered manual.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2015 13:05
|
|
|
Ola posted:Is it the act of changing gears that you like, and you want to keep it in the car? Or is it something about the behavior of an automatic transmission that annoys you? Yes. Both. I dont want to go overboard with my lovely opinions beyond "i like X" (3 posts might be enough) but putting it in D and pressing the "gas" will aways feel slushy if i'm not actively controlling the disconnection of the drive wheels during a stop and the slip during setting off. Feeling the car doing things on its own in the seat of my pants is unnerving. To a lesser extent I worry it encourages inattentiveness and feels like its taking control away from me. I wont pretend to not be an automotive luddite, but this is really just a control configuration preference i wont want to lose as i hopefully transition to electric. Plus i enjoy every second of it, even in heavy traffic. I was thinking of a solution like how they added fake "gears" to CVT cars that should have just gone to one RPM and never moved because the consumer preferred it that way. It sounds like they knew EV motorcycle buyers would want to shift their own gears as well and made that work. Just take an EV, attach some PC car video game controllers for your hand and foot and do the rest with software. It wont be as good, but if i cant have metaphorical heroin i will take this electric methadone. MattD1zzl3 fucked around with this message at 13:54 on Jul 23, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2015 13:12
|
|
|
MattD1zzl3 posted:Thats effectively an auto, I'd rather take the EV bus. To each their own but I dont know how you guys deal with it. But i'm also very passionate about EV's and transitioning away from fossil fuel is something i want to be a part of. And most have a 1 speed transmission to add a reverse gear, not straight direct drive.
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2015 13:13
|
|
|
ilkhan posted:Don't k ow why you'd want a stick. There's no slushy tc in the drive line and regen approximates engine braking. Those two should eliminate most causes of auto hate. Why wouldn't you just reverse the electric motor? Isn't that a helluva lot simpler than having a transmission?
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2015 14:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 14:07 |
|
|
If we could make internal combustion engines with the torque curves of electric motors, we would, and if we connected one to a gearbox, there would be no reason to ever change gears, except possibly to engine‐brake. If you feel the urge to play with a knob anyway, install one of these: 
|
|
#
?
Jul 23, 2015 14:25
|
|
