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enri posted:I might have totally misinterpreted the jumping rules, it has been a day or two since I read them... these thing always take time to sink in until I've played a few games. quote:A jump must always be in a straight line. A figure may jump up to 4” provided it moves an equal distance immediately prior to making the jump. So, a figure that moves 2.5” in a straight line may then jump 2.5” along the same line. Otherwise, figures may jump a maximum of 1” without any previous movement. Infantryman: move 4" plus jump 4", 2nd action move 3". Effectively moved 11". Marksman: move 4"plus jump 4". 2nd action move 2.5". Effectively moved 10.5" This will effectively mean that all movement will be people running and jumping everywhere. This has now become Cirque du Frostgrave. IF this is true, can someone people change the title to Cirque du Frostgrave FANTASY WARGAMES IN MOTION. There's nothing mentioning movement stat limits though. Commissar Kip fucked around with this message at 13:59 on Jul 22, 2015 |
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Jul 22, 2015 13:56
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Commissar Kip posted:This is the jumping rule from the book. I mean, surely it must be limited? If it's not a special action and just part of movement this means that you can use your 2nd movement to move another 1/2 movement. You're selling yourself short. If you can jump during the movement and it wasn't part of the move distance, an infantryman could move 6" then jump 4", then move 6 and jump 4" his next turn. Actually it doesn't limit the number of jumps. So once an infantryman moved 12" with both his moves, he could jump three times for another 12". Actually verbatim since it doesn't limit the number of jumps and simply references the distance moved as the final jump distance, you could move 4" then jump 30 times for another 120" of movement. Then finish your move with a 2" into combat. So... I'm pretty sure jumping is linked into total movement that turn.
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Jul 22, 2015 14:02
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My game is going to look like Mario 64, everyone long-jumping everywhere. Sounds glorious.
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Jul 22, 2015 14:14
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Doctor Borris posted:I thinking jumping might either be a separate action or capped at max move distance. Like an archer moves 6" as his first move then 2" and jumps 4" with his second. Otherwise you could never jump 4" or you would end every move jumping 4". Yessssss Fight Wizards.
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Jul 22, 2015 14:16
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If fight Wizards are go then I am all set for my Confrontation warband with this guy in charge: 
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Jul 22, 2015 14:20
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Others find the Frostgrave campaign swingy too... "The first major problem that we came across whilst playing was snowballing within a game. Whilst you’re both grabbing treasure, one of you will inevitably get the upper hand on the field. Once you have the upper hand, it is no longer in your interests to move treasure counters off the board; it is infinitely preferable to instead wipe your opponent from the table, because that means that you get all of the treasure counters, not just the ones you made it off with. By diverting your efforts (and resources in the form of soldiers) into killing your opponent, whilst he is playing from behind simply trying to get treasures off the board (and hence losing resources as his guys leave the board), you can easily turn what might have been a 3-3 or 4-2 treasure game into a 5-1 or even a 6-0 depending on how early you can stop his guys getting off the board with the treasure. Don’t get me wrong, there is still very much a game to play to get to this point, but getting to the point of decision where you decide to fight for table control rather than move off the table with your treasure happens more often than not, especially with an experienced gamer at the helm of the warband that knows when he has the upper hand."
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Jul 22, 2015 14:21
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Electric Hobo posted:Got my book, and then my local game store decided to sell off some of their old wargaming terrain. Picked up a ton of broken walls for next to nothing. And they had a bunch of Age of Sigmar boxes sitting on their "please buy this, we can't way to be rid of it" table. Looks like a Sigilist to me.
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Jul 22, 2015 14:27
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TKIY posted:Looks like a Sigilist to me. Sigilist or Witch is what I'd go for.
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Jul 22, 2015 14:31
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VacuumJockey posted:Others find the Frostgrave campaign swingy too... Well, it looks like most of his criticism can be resolved with turn limits and a couple other minor guidelines. What concerns me is the problem of losing your Wizard - this seems to be a bigger problem than in the typical GW-style campaign system. If you lose a leader or a couple of good members of your gang, you're likely screwed if you've gone more than a couple games into the campaign, but you might be able to get by with what you have left. In this case, your entire gang hinges on keeping one guy alive. I was hoping that this wouldn't be an issue with Frostgrave too, since I seem to be the guy in our group that winds up losing his leader or high-ranking members often. berzerkmonkey fucked around with this message at 15:01 on Jul 22, 2015 |
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Jul 22, 2015 14:56
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It sounds like there are two separate ideas that make for a confusing read: - jumping is part of normal movement, and - no jumping movement can exceed 4" I still haven't had much chance to sit down with the rules, so this may be crazy talk.
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Jul 22, 2015 15:00
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I'd just say that wizards can be defeated but they're never killed, just to prevent someone from being totally hosed like that. Maybe that can be how the other player gets all the treasure remaining on the board, as the downed wizard's crew has to drop everything to help the wizard get out of dodge. Edit: I think any treasure you make it off the table with should be yours no matter what, since you're sacrificing crew members to get it. Otherwise, why wouldn't I just let you grab it all then take my 5 man advantage and kill you? long-ass nips Diane fucked around with this message at 15:05 on Jul 22, 2015 |
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Jul 22, 2015 15:03
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Pretty sure that jumping is part of your total movement, from a rough reading. I'm absolutely still thinking I'll build for speed, with a Chronomancer with the Storm spell that makes ranged attacks harder. Shut that "just kill everyone" thing right the heck down. And having 9" movement sounds baller as hell when you're trying to run away with treasure.
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Jul 22, 2015 15:06
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With no one else gaining experience, losing your Wizard is particularly nasty. It's tough in Necromunda or Mordheim, and there you will have other leveled people to step up the the role. In Frostgrave its going to be pretty grim. That review is also right though in that you want to encourage people to actually use their Wizards, not just stuff them in a safe space to avoid having their warband nuked. I can think of a couple fixes: 1) If a Wizard dies, you get to recruit a new wizard who is automatically leveled to one below the current lowest level in the campaign. I think that Necromunda did there, where they recommended that if you added new people or replacement gangs you have them start closer to the campaign's level and not fresh. The problem would be if you have a wide variation in your campaign, you could still be going from level 12 or 13 to level 5 or lower. 2) When a wizard dies, allow their apprentice to assume their place- that's the point of an apprentice, right? The apprentice is removed and you gain a wizard one level below your dead leader, who retains any equipment the apprentice had. This way losing your wizard is still a blow, but not an insurmountable one. This does make apprentices even more valuable though, and you would have to decide what to do if they both go out in the same game.
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Jul 22, 2015 15:16
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Ashcans posted:2) When a wizard dies, allow their apprentice to assume their place- that's the point of an apprentice, right? The apprentice is removed and you gain a wizard one level below your dead leader, who retains any equipment the apprentice had. This way losing your wizard is still a blow, but not an insurmountable one. This does make apprentices even more valuable though, and you would have to decide what to do if they both go out in the same game. I see two problems with this - 1) from an aesthetic standpoint, if your apprentice is one level below you, why would he still be your apprentice? If you're level 14, you're not going to have a level 13 wizard tagging along - he's going to start his own gang. 2) Constantly having a pool of "wannabe wizards" cheapens the game. Your wizard dies, so your apprentice steps up to be the wizard, and he gets his own apprentice... Then your wizard dies, so your apprentice steps up to be the wizard, and he gets his own apprentice... to infinity and beyond! So I'm thinking that a reroll of "dead" on the injury chart might be the way to go, otherwise you're going to have a whole lot of pissed off players early on, and this game will die pretty quickly.
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Jul 22, 2015 15:24
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berzerkmonkey posted:I see two problems with this - 1) from an aesthetic standpoint, if your apprentice is one level below you, why would he still be your apprentice? If you're level 14, you're not going to have a level 13 wizard tagging along - he's going to start his own gang. 2) Constantly having a pool of "wannabe wizards" cheapens the game. Your wizard dies, so your apprentice steps up to be the wizard, and he gets his own apprentice... Then your wizard dies, so your apprentice steps up to be the wizard, and he gets his own apprentice... to infinity and beyond! Its a game, not a simulation.
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Jul 22, 2015 15:26
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Nebalebadingdong posted:Its a game, not a simulation. The problem with a Wizard dying in the later stages of the campaign will be an issue though - not being able to catch up and constantly being at a disadvantage is part of what turned people off with Necromunda and Mordheim. EDIT: Granted, it won't be as big of one, since hireling stats don't increase, but better equipment and spells are certainly going to cause problems to a newer gang. But like that guy says, maybe turn limits will remove this consideration from the game, since you'll be more concerned about objectives rather than total party (or wizard) kills. berzerkmonkey fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Jul 22, 2015 |
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Jul 22, 2015 15:30
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From looking at my copy if your wizard is below level 10, you just create a new wizard and warband with starting cash. If he's above level 10, you use the apprentice at his current stats (which will be better than a starting wizard), but without the casting penalty (-2) for being an apprentice. So essentially 'losing' ten levels, although basically you're losing +2 Fight, Will and 4 Health. Casting stats and spell improvements are unaffected, so your new wizard is just as good a spellcaster as the old one. Remember that the chance of a wizard or apprentice dying is 10%, so it's not that likely.
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Jul 22, 2015 15:47
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LazyAngel posted:From looking at my copy if your wizard is below level 10, you just create a new wizard and warband with starting cash. If he's above level 10, you use the apprentice at his current stats (which will be better than a starting wizard), but without the casting penalty (-2) for being an apprentice. LazyAngel posted:Remember that the chance of a wizard or apprentice dying is 10%, so it's not that likely. My dice aren't fickle, they freaking hate me. berzerkmonkey fucked around with this message at 16:02 on Jul 22, 2015 |
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Jul 22, 2015 15:59
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Alternatively, you have bad dice that are actually not properly weighted and need to get new ones!
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Jul 22, 2015 16:35
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Is Frostgrave dude active on Twitter? Could ask for clarification about the jumping stuff there. edit: Yuck, that campaign article is pretty damning. Doesn't sound unfixable, but also sounds like obvious poo poo that would show up in playtesting. victrix fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Jul 22, 2015 |
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Jul 22, 2015 16:56
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Or get your dice blessed http://dicewitch.com/  Appearing at Gencon 2015 booth 2248
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Jul 22, 2015 17:00
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Ashcans posted:Alternatively, you have bad dice that are actually not properly weighted and need to get new ones! victrix posted:edit: Yuck, that campaign article is pretty damning. Doesn't sound unfixable, but also sounds like obvious poo poo that would show up in playtesting.
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Jul 22, 2015 17:10
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berzerkmonkey posted:So is AoS. That doesn't forgive poorly implemented rules though. Well I agree its poorly implemented but that wasn't your complaint  Allowing the Apprentice to take over is better than nothing at all.
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Jul 22, 2015 17:47
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The book suggests dead wizard under level ten = new warband and dead wizard at 10 or above = Apprentice takes over, since the Apprentice at that point is more powerful than a starting wizard. So a lot depends on how much more powerful a levelled wizard is in practice. I guess people need to eyeball it some more.
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Jul 22, 2015 17:54
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Rulebook Heavily posted:The book suggests dead wizard under level ten = new warband and dead wizard at 10 or above = Apprentice takes over, since the Apprentice at that point is more powerful than a starting wizard. So a lot depends on how much more powerful a levelled wizard is in practice. I guess people need to eyeball it some more. Yeah, I just read the rules and saw that, so it looks like it won't be a huge issue. If your wizard dies, you bump your apprentice up, but you lose the lifeline of an apprentice until you can afford to buy a new one. Some more thoughts: The rules state that if you have more than 12" LOS on a Frostgrave table, you are wrong. The table is supposed to be cluttered with terrain, and the streets are noted as being "maze-like." So load that poo poo up, fellas. Jumping: From what I'm reading, I'm assuming jumping is a part of your total movement. You cannot jump if you did not move in your action phase immediately prior. If you did not move prior, you may jump a maximum of 1". You may only jump a a distance that equals the move immediately prior. Example 1: My Thug uses his first action phase to move 3". He can then jump up to 3", (presumably) using his second action. In other words, the further you move, the further you can jump (up to your max Move stat.) Example 2: My Thug jumps 1". He then runs 3" (you can use your second action to move up to half of your Move stat.) Monty Haul campaigns: Yes, it seems to be really easy to get gold and magic items, BUT you have to replace dead soldiers (1 in 5 chance of death) and soldiers can only carry one magic item, so you're not going to be using those guys as walking banks. Also, dead models take their equipment with them, so any potions or weapons they have are lost. Runaway wizards: Yea, you do get rewarded for making kills with your wizard, and he could potentially get a lot of experience, eclipsing the other gangs. But, the potential to take damage is really, really high, and I think most people will be relatively conservative with their wizard. From a quick read-through, Frostgrave seems like a fun game. Of course, playing it will actually prove whether or not this is a good game, but it seems to me to be a good alternative to Mordheim, if you're looking for something a little lighter and quicker playing.
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Jul 22, 2015 18:35
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The difference in quality in this game is really even. High level wizards aren't that much better then a starting guy. Expensive dudes are only marginally better the cheap thugs. I think from a campaign standpoint even a pimped warband could lose to a starting band, it's. Important to note the game is designed to be super flexible and a little Rpgy. As a long time Mordheim player the balance between experience warriors and new warriors is pretty good.
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Jul 22, 2015 19:51
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I love the idea of some high level wizard and his decked out war band losing to some fresh-out-of-Hogwarts wizard. That sounds like a great story for the winner but I guess the losing side of that might find it pretty hard to swallow. Edit: I just got my copy and the production value is amazing. I feel like I could have paid 3 times what I paid and not feel cheated. The bits of fluff in there are well enough written that I'm probably going to spring for the book of short stories. Frostgrave posted:...On a clear night, you can see a green light near the top of one of the tall towers. It flashes in some kind of code, but who it's signalling to, and what about, nobody knows... jodai fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Jul 22, 2015 |
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Jul 22, 2015 20:49
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Commissar Kip posted:This will effectively mean that all movement will be people running and jumping everywhere. This has now become Cirque du Frostgrave. IF this is true, can someone people change the title to Cirque du Frostgrave FANTASY WARGAMES IN MOTION. Not FANTASY WARGAMES ON ICE?
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Jul 22, 2015 22:42
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Trollhawke posted:Not FANTASY WARGAMES ON ICE? Cirque du Frostgrave FANTASY WARGAMES ON ICE, if a mod could edit the title plz. Anyway, if you guys have questions you can ask the developer on the "official" forums here: http://www.lead-adventure.de/index.php?board=92.0 The guy posts quite frequently and there is a stickied rules question thread (also lead adventures is a pretty awesome forum in general for mini's and mini games).
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Jul 23, 2015 10:59
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RE: comeback factors, the author said this to me in an email:quote:That seems to be one of the major topics of discussion at the moment on the forums and such. First I would say, wizard levels aren't quite as important as they may first look. The difference between a level 5 wizard and level 0 isn't much really. That said, it can get out of hand, and if it that happens early the effect can be greater.
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Jul 23, 2015 18:24
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Got my book yesterday, its very nice. The setting is generic enough that you don't have to have "ice" anything. The monsters are just basic stat-lines so you can proxy everything. Its also pretty simple, so adding houserules or new scenarios or whatever should be pretty easy. I think I'm gonna paint up 2 warbands and see if I can get some of my disillusioned wargaming buddies to play
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Jul 23, 2015 18:32
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My book showed up today and yeah the quality is very high for the price. I'm eager to see the expansion campaign now. My group has at least eight players jumping in. A few of us bought these kits to build our warbands suplemented by a few models for the Wizard and Apprentice. My Chronomancer:  And Apprentice: 
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Jul 23, 2015 21:39
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Remember all the fuss about my book being late? Guess what is showing up Tuesday? 1 week late and I am only paying $10 for it! Yay for strange shipping errors, combined with good customer service.
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Jul 23, 2015 21:43
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berzerkmonkey posted:So the apprentice gains experience as well - that's good to know. Does the new apprentice start of at basic stats? I've got my book, but can't read it right now at work.) Apprentice stats are always equal to the stats of your wizard, -2 fight/shoot/will, -4 health and they get a -2 penalty to spellcasting (although the same spells as the wizard). Promoting them to full Wizard just removes the -2 penalty to spells. So if, as I suspect people will tend to dump levels into improving spells, any replacement wizards will be physically a bit more fragile than a starting wizard, but still an absolute casting powerhouse.
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Jul 23, 2015 21:49
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I really like the fluff tidbits in the book. I like how instead of just being a ruined city that happens to have treasure it's like this weird alternate reality where things happen that don't make sense. It's like going into the twilight zone for loot
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Jul 23, 2015 22:26
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Dr. VooDoo posted:I really like the fluff tidbits in the book. I like how instead of just being a ruined city that happens to have treasure it's like this weird alternate reality where things happen that don't make sense. It's like going into the twilight zone for loot Yes, absolutely. I get a real Dark Souls vibe from some of the entries. There's a huge wolf bound by golden chains, speaking in a mysterious language and a stilt walker wandering into a fight that both war bands gave a wide berth because who knows what he's even doing there. Presumably all accounts given are by soldiers, too, so they really have no idea what's happening.
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Jul 23, 2015 22:57
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I like the tower with a flashing green light that sends out an unknown message to an unknown listener.
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Jul 23, 2015 23:43
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Are there any good resources to building your own terrain? It would be way to expensive to get enough terrain through minature companies so il need to make my own
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Jul 23, 2015 23:58
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http://www.davesgames.net/ http://www.worldworksgames.com/store/ berzerkmonkey fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Jul 24, 2015 |
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Jul 24, 2015 00:04
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Yeah the scenarios include a fair bit of terrain requirements, like in the silent tower and the living museum.
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Jul 24, 2015 00:24
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