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Argas posted:I'll tell you why Paladin sucks. Counter: pld can buy the esoteric weapon next week.
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Jul 25, 2015 20:21
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Rexicon1 posted:btw, if any fate group isn't just open to whoever, then its run by lovely dirtbags who deserve no respect. Pretending to need a certain comp for fate grinding is the most asinine tryhard poo poo in the history of everything. Yeah I got in a FATE group that's mostly WARs and DRKs and we're laughing at the guy recruiting DPS for his group in /sh I like the aesthetics of PLD 
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Jul 25, 2015 20:36
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PLD season WAR season PLD season WAR season PLD season WAR season DRK season 
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Jul 25, 2015 20:38
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Can someone give a relatively unbiased rundown of the actual differences between the 3 tanks at endgame right now? Also is DRK lagging behind a lot in mitigation/damage or is it mostly a matter of there being more poo poo players in that class still?
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Jul 25, 2015 20:39
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Zerilan posted:Can someone give a relatively unbiased rundown of the actual differences between the 3 tanks at endgame right now? Might well be a lot of the second, but the first is definitely true even if played right.
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Jul 25, 2015 20:42
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Just off the top of my head: -DRK requires the tank to be getting hit in the face for access to a lot of its poo poo, so it has to be in an MT role -It has no loving health due to no shield/defiance, it also has lovely cooldowns unless whatever is hitting you is magic and whatevers hitting you with magic is doing it whenever Dark Mind is off cooldown -Its utility skills are trash, as Delerium is replaced by Dragon Kick which is a regular part of a Monk rotation unless you have two Monks, and Reprisal has a massive cooldown and requires a proc (that in and of itself isnt a big deal) so it cant be up all the time unlock ROH's STR Down debuff or Storms Path -It cant do OT DPS at the level of PLD or WAR and if it does it's just a really dull loving combo as it is. It's like the new PLD 1-2-3 for the Cloud Cosplay crew It's like if DRK had existed alongside the 2.0 tanks it'd be fine, maybe even really good, but as it stands it's not as tanky or good at DPS as either of the other tanks. It's only real strength is magic damage mitigation (not shadow damage mitigation, which isn't physical or magic) and really solid snap threat through dark arts.
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Jul 25, 2015 20:44
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Agrias Elms is still the best name I've encountered in FFXIV
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Jul 25, 2015 20:46
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Rei_ posted:It's like if DRK had existed alongside the 2.0 tanks it'd be fine, maybe even really good, but as it stands it's not as tanky or good at DPS as either of the other tanks. Can't a level 50 DRK literally not deal with Akh Morns because of how lovely Living Dead is?
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Jul 25, 2015 20:52
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Line Feed posted:Can't a level 50 DRK literally not deal with Akh Morns because of how lovely Living Dead is? Let's balance around non level capped fights. 
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Jul 25, 2015 20:55
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Rei_ posted:Just off the top of my head: A lot of this is accurate but you realize that Grit is functionally identical to Shield Oath, which is better than Defiance as far as "how hard is it to keep this tank alive", right? Without considering cooldowns, the degree of tankiness for each tank on a mob that uses physical damage is PLD >> DRK > WAR. Where DRK stands right now is this: We have Shadowskin, which is literally Rampart. Then we have Shadow Wall, which is the shittiest take on "bigass defense cooldown" between the three tanks, since it has a CD like Sentinel but is only as strong as Vengeance. Then we have Dark Dance, which is hot garbage, and Dark Mind, which is great as long as the thing you need to defend against is magic damage. You have to burn a bunch of your MP to make it good, though, which is sort of awkward. Reprisal is mostly poo poo just because you have to parry before you can use it, so you can't necessarily use it when you want and you can't use it at all if you aren't taking physical hits. Their synergy with other classes is sort of weird, especially with WHM in 4 mans where a holy going off at the wrong time can mean you're out a ton of MP because Blood Price is kind of a terrible design in general. Their MP cycle is basically the opposite of BLM. You rapidly use up a bunch of MP, and then recover it kind of slowly (unless you're tanking a pack of mobs that haven't been stunned and you have Blood Price up). This doesn't feel great and sometimes leaves you in a bad situation if you didn't plan ahead or accidentally hit Dark Arts one too many times before some adds spawn. They are annoying to play during add-focused fights, especially in full party duties. See, adds mean "you probably need to AoE a lot", which is fine. As long as the DRK is actually getting hit. But you group up the mobs and both tanks are doing stuff and you may or may not have hate on many things and unlike the other two tanks, the resource you use for AoE does not naturally regenerate (and in fact constantly drains) unless you turn off Darkside, and the job is very much designed around "never turn off Darkside". So you have to do this weird balancing act where you try not to do so much AoE that you can't get enough MP for the next batch of mobs, but not so little that someone rips aggro. They also have the odd bit of design where they do not want to use their threat combo. PLD gets a good debuff from their threat combo, and for WAR it's the highest damage combo they have. For DRK, it's not the strongest combo, it has no special effects, and if they use it that's a combo that didn't give them MP, reducing their damage output even more. This was compensated for by giving them a higher threat multiplier in Grit than the other two tanks have, but if your DPS are actually good it's not necessarily enough, and it means once you've overgeared something enough to tank it without Grit you have to mix in a lot of Power Slash combos to keep threat, which doesn't feel very nice. I think their OT damage is actually pretty OK since they get access to Blood Weapon when Grit is off, so they can pump out a lot of DA Souleaters. Their OT combos are not especially less interesting than WAR; You do 123 if you can spend MP on Darkside and 124 if you can't, mixing in oGCDs as they come up. We also have what I think are the second (Salted Earth, 525 total potency, oGCD, placed AoE, 47% maximum uptime due to CD) and third (Scourge, weaponskill, 500 total potency) strongest DoTs in the game. Basically, DRK isn't as bad off compared to the other two tanks as WAR was to PLD when the game launched, but they are definitely the red headed stepchild of the tanks at the moment. Living Dead can eat a dick, though.
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Jul 25, 2015 21:09
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Is there a guide to making money with a house? I literally forgot gardens existed for a few months there while I spent all my time placing my beds and tables to exacting standards.
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Jul 25, 2015 21:19
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I need them to let me have more than one pet out at a time now that I have both the Duckling and the Fat Cat. 
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Jul 25, 2015 21:45
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Holyshoot posted:Let's balance around non level capped fights. Well I mean, the other poster is saying that DRK would fit in before HW but I'm not sure that's true? No need to be a dick about it.
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Jul 25, 2015 21:49
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DRK have a couple things going for them compared to PLDs for MT: they do anywhere from 100-200 dps more than a PLD while MTing, their AOE threat and DPS is much better and they have a 30% magic damage reduction ability on a 1 minute cooldown. Conversely, Paladins have better physical mitigation, the best immunity in the game and their Stoneskin & Protect are as good as a healer's now.
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Jul 25, 2015 22:02
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God drat this 30% parry and evasion cd sure is poo poo. I wish I had a tanking stance like Paladin.
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Jul 25, 2015 22:26
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Doublestep posted:God drat this 30% parry and evasion cd sure is poo poo. I wish I had a tanking stance like Paladin. Dark rampart and sentinel also are totally useless apparently.
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Jul 25, 2015 22:27
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So is leveling thaumaturge a good idea to pair with WHM instead of arcanist? I was looking at the spell list and swiftcast/surecast seem like they'd be hella handy. Also can someone run me through making heavensward work? Do I just buy it on steam and then add the steam key to my square enix account on the mog station? I remember this kind of thing being unnecessarily complex in FFXI
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Jul 25, 2015 22:31
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Volt Catfish posted:Agrias Elms is still the best name I've encountered in FFXIV Explain for those who don't get the reference/joke.
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Jul 25, 2015 22:33
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I just looked at the mog station for the first time and lmao at the "pristine egg cap" and horse kabuto thing on sale for $3
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Jul 25, 2015 22:34
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It's generally not a good idea to level two classes in tandem, especially if you keep them at the same level. You should always have one higher than the other to benefit from the armoury bonus. Also it's usually a good idea to focus on getting your first class to 50 before anything else.Volt Catfish posted:Agrias Elms is still the best name I've encountered in FFXIV {Thank you.}
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Jul 25, 2015 22:35
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Frog Act posted:So is leveling thaumaturge a good idea to pair with WHM instead of arcanist? I was looking at the spell list and swiftcast/surecast seem like they'd be hella handy. Also can someone run me through making heavensward work? Do I just buy it on steam and then add the steam key to my square enix account on the mog station? I remember this kind of thing being unnecessarily complex in FFXI You want to level THM for Swiftcast because Swiftcast + Raise is really nice, but after that you can drop it. Surecast is basically useless outside of PvP.
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Jul 25, 2015 22:36
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The reason people think dark knight is bad is because morons like rei keep spreading misinformation like "has no tank stance" and "has no cooldowns" and it owns Drk is definitely poo poo I wonder why savage groups are all using them dang
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Jul 25, 2015 22:41
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Frog Act posted:So is leveling thaumaturge a good idea to pair with WHM instead of arcanist? I was looking at the spell list and swiftcast/surecast seem like they'd be hella handy. Also can someone run me through making heavensward work? Do I just buy it on steam and then add the steam key to my square enix account on the mog station? I remember this kind of thing being unnecessarily complex in FFXI Swiftcast is non-negotiable as a healer if you want to do anything even slightly difficult. Raising people without it just takes too long. Well, I guess if you and the people you play with are good you won't ever need to raise people, but that's still ignoring the many other amazing uses of swiftcast (gently caress slow-casting Aero 3 or Holy).
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Jul 25, 2015 22:41
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Kaedric posted:Explain for those who don't get the reference/joke. http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Agrias_Oaks
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Jul 25, 2015 22:43
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Ibram Gaunt posted:Dark rampart and sentinel also are totally useless apparently. Shadowskin and Rampart are exactly the same while Sentinel is 40% damage reduction and Shadow Wall is 30% damage reduction with the same cooldown. Besides, those don't really have anything to do with physical mitigation specifically and that gap between the two classes is why there are no Savage A2 clears, that I've seen so far, that have a DRK in them.
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Jul 25, 2015 22:43
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Also, how does sustained Pld and War damage compare when OTing, aisde from War's damage having those big fell cleave bursts.
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Jul 25, 2015 22:43
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Doublestep posted:God drat this 30% parry and evasion cd sure is poo poo. I wish I had a tanking stance like Paladin. That's sort of the whole crutch of DRK at the moment for me. On one hand it's incredibly involving gameplay having to manage enemies, your CD's and abilities and your MP pool at the same time. On the other hand what you spend that MP on and how you gain MP back is a bit rough. Dark Dance's main problem is that in situations where it would be pretty awesome (big group of guys on you that are doing lots of attacks for you to parry/dodge) it directly conflicts with Blood Price. Same with other Dark Arts abilities. Whenever I look at them I internally go 'is it worth blowing 1/3rd of my MP on that extra effect?' I'm curious to how the Devs envisioned how Darkside and Dark Arts are intended to be used and if it's closer to 'let Darkside drop off so you can regen MP faster' rather than 'keep Darkside up at all costs.'
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Jul 25, 2015 22:45
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Doublestep posted:The reason people think dark knight is bad is because morons like rei keep spreading misinformation like "has no tank stance" and "has no cooldowns" and it owns i didnt say it doesnt have a tank stance i said it doesnt have the health from defiance or the shield from paladin, so it literally just has a rebranded shield oath (they have the same dmg reduction afaik but they have less armor/less health)? And yeah turns out that literally some of the best players of this game in the world can clear bleeding edge content with a mediocre job. A1 which has a tankbuster basically tailor made for dark arts dark mind and A2 which everyone is cheesing with vuln-spreading using bane Rei_ fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Jul 25, 2015 |
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Jul 25, 2015 22:57
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Eej posted:Shadowskin and Rampart are exactly the same while Sentinel is 40% damage reduction and Shadow Wall is 30% damage reduction with the same cooldown. Besides, those don't really have anything to do with physical mitigation specifically and that gap between the two classes is why there are no Savage A2 clears, that I've seen so far, that have a DRK in them. It's worth noting that the groups which are clearing A2 are, for the most part, heavily predisposed toward their old jobs unless they won't work entirely. Inertia is a hell of a drug like that.
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Jul 25, 2015 22:58
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Zerilan posted:Also, how does sustained Pld and War damage compare when OTing, aisde from War's damage having those big fell cleave bursts. Warriors are still a little bit ahead of Paladins in OT damage (900 to 800 dps for some very general, ballpark numbers) and they can sustain themselves because they can regenerate TP while Paladins can't. In real world situations though, Paladin OT DPS relies on being able to autoattack the target constantly and this makes Warriors pull ahead because their damage is naturally bursty. The most dramatic example of this is Ravana EX where they can go crazy on Ravana during his vulnerable phases and Paladins miss out on a lot of autoattacks because he goes untargetable so often. The Paladin TP issue is mitigated in real world usage because an OT Paladin is free to use Stoneskin, Clemency and Protect at will but this of course also lowers their DPS more. Niton posted:It's worth noting that the groups which are clearing A2 are, for the most part, heavily predisposed toward their old jobs unless they won't work entirely. Inertia is a hell of a drug like that. FWIW I've seen at least two groups clear A2 with an Astrologian and there's even a Machinist clear. Also, lots of groups used Dark Knights for Savage A1 because of preference/higher MT DPS/magic damage tankbusters.
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Jul 25, 2015 23:11
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Zerilan posted:Also, how does sustained Pld and War damage compare when OTing, aisde from War's damage having those big fell cleave bursts. Paladins have Goring Blade, which is the second highest total potency ability in the game after Chaos Thrust, and I believe it wins in terms of potency per second (CT is 600 over 30 seconds, GB is 560 over 24 seconds). Sword Oath is also 50 potency every ~2 seconds, which is a pretty big deal. Paladins have really good sustained damage. On the other hand, they're entirely dependent on other players for TP regeneration.
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Jul 25, 2015 23:20
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Eej posted:FWIW I've seen at least two groups clear A2 with an Astrologian and there's even a Machinist clear. Also, lots of groups used Dark Knights for Savage A1 because of preference/higher MT DPS/magic damage tankbusters. I'm sure they're there, but unless they're immensely preferable, you're still going to see way fewer than "expected" because they require way more than someone just levelling their ARR main.
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Jul 25, 2015 23:24
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Rei_ posted:i didnt say it doesnt have a tank stance i said it doesnt have the health from defiance or the shield from paladin, so it literally just has a rebranded shield oath (they have the same dmg reduction afaik but they have less armor/less health)? lmao no you're wrong again grit is literally shield oath, and darkside almost completely nullifies the damage penalty. drks have the same exact stats as a paladin, they just don't have block
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Jul 25, 2015 23:27
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do you think shields give more stats than 2handers or something???? like where the gently caress are you getting this less health poo poo shields dont even give armor
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Jul 25, 2015 23:32
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you need to calm down, sir
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Jul 25, 2015 23:33
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Doublestep posted:lmao no you're wrong again Taresh Was Right
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Jul 25, 2015 23:34
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Shadow wall isn't an awful cd on its own but compared to its parallel skills on the other tanks it's inferior. It's the same cd and duration as sentinel but 10% less mitigation. It has the same mitigation as vengeance but vengeance lasts 5s longer, has a 60s shorter cd, does damage, and grants a stack of wrath or abandon. It needs to do something else or be the same as sentinel.
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Jul 25, 2015 23:36
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i'm quivering with rage and i want to poop someone is wrong about tanks in a video game
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Jul 25, 2015 23:38
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Tankchat sure builds enmity 
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Jul 26, 2015 00:09
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Doublestep posted:do you think shields give more stats than 2handers or something???? like where the gently caress are you getting this less health poo poo No, but they do give the Block mechanic, which is a pretty nice thing Paladins have exclusive use of. And multiple cooldowns to take advantage of it.
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Jul 26, 2015 00:09
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