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bobkatt013 posted:But yellow was just a retelling of early Daredevil comics. His run also brought back Colossus, introduced SWORD, and got rid of Kitty for a while. And I would credit him with making Kitty an A-lister again in the first place. I think it's Whedon's doing that she's around so much today. And since she's my favorite X-Man, I appreciate that.
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Jul 23, 2015 15:56
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Saoshyant posted:Dude, Mike Carey and Kieron Gillen. Fabian Nicieza from side books. Endless Mike posted:Lol no. No, maybe not, and there's certainly writers I enjoyed on X-Men (either on the main titles or otherwise) than I did Whedon on Astonishing. I was talking about perception or "common knowledge" or whatever. What I'm saying is that if you go on to most comic book sites and ask, "What's the best run on X-Men?" or look up polls of the most popular X-Men runs, the three answers or the top three results you're most likely to get are Claremont, Morrison and Whedon (usually in that order). It's those three at one end of the scale and Austen at the other. I'd personally rate Carey and Spurrier ahead of Whedon. I'd rate Alan Davis's solo run as writer of Excalibur ahead of Whedon. But Whedon was a Nerd Favourite before he wrote X-Men; getting him was a big deal ad his name on the covers attracted a lot of people to the comic as much as the content, so he's the one the fans put in the top three. It's like, BSS generally dislikes Dan Slott as Spider-Man writer, right? You go on most comic sites other than this one, and people praise him as a genius. Like, I think there was a poll on CBR a while back where he was he third most popular Spidey writer after Stan Lee and Brian Bendis. I think it's the same with Whedon's X-Men.
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Jul 23, 2015 17:04
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Endless Mike posted:NO. It was super terrible Magik was the absolute worst and the concentrated embodiment of all that is Austen
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Jul 23, 2015 17:49
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Blockhouse posted:It was super terrible It is still not the worst Exiles run.
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Jul 23, 2015 17:54
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Apparently Austen's current gig is as a director for a show called "Part-Time Hero" on Disney Animated, which I did not see coming. Apparently he was on "Steven Universe" for a while.Wheat Loaf posted:Austen's always at the bottom but two that I've seen placed just above him fairly consistently are actually Alan Davis and Matt Fraction (I like the former's X-Men a lot and haven't really read the latter). I think Fraction gets more poo poo than he deserves because he was saddled with Greg Land for most of his run. Alan Davis as a writer is kind of Generic Superhero Guy. Really, there's a pretty huge gap between Austen and everyone else. The X-Men have had a pretty good run overall, even in the last few years when nobody seemed quite sure what to do with them and the writers were neglecting characters left and right.
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Jul 23, 2015 18:41
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I feel like the Brubaker run was worse than Fraction's run, but then, it was competing with my favorite of Carey's runs (I never got into X-Men: Legacy as much). And also was boring as poo poo 90% of the time while Fraction had something occasionally fun happen.
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Jul 23, 2015 18:52
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Jiro posted:Woah, woah, woah, I would never call whatever Bendis has been trying to do in Uncanny as cool. More like meandering in circles to nowhere for a super long rear end time. I do think that if you're going to specifically run a book in its own self contained thing then you probably should just hit the pause button on it and pick it up after the event is over. Have some side stories with the goldballs and friends coping with after the end of everything or blah and then just move on from there. But honestly Secret Wars and its spin offs are way better than current x-books by far save for Spider-Man and the X-Men. Old Man Logan is far and away the best story Bendis has done with mutants so far. I was talking more in a general sense. All the little SW books are neat, but, like, we could have had those neat books anyway. It's all just a bunch of What Ifs where somebody mentions "LORD GOD DOOM" in a halting manner at some point and then goes on with their own poo poo. I will cop to being a trash can that likes Bendis' meandering, decompressed stories in general however.
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Jul 23, 2015 22:22
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Wanderer posted:Apparently Austen's current gig is as a director for a show called "Part-Time Hero" on Disney Animated, which I did not see coming. Apparently he was on "Steven Universe" for a while. There were definitely people on this forum who loved Fraction's run while it was ongoing, the fact alone there's proof of multiple people liking it makes it a pretty wide gap from Austen. I do wonder if another artist besides Land would've helped my perception of it. I wouldn't have been so immediately negative towards it. But I hated so much of what his run, and the stuff that I didn't think was awful was stuff were basically retellings of 90s X-Factor stories.
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Jul 23, 2015 23:03
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Cabbit posted:I was talking more in a general sense. All the little SW books are neat, but, like, we could have had those neat books anyway. It's all just a bunch of What Ifs where somebody mentions "LORD GOD DOOM" in a halting manner at some point and then goes on with their own poo poo. Everyone seems to have had the option to continue if they wanted to. Silver Surfer has like 3 more pre-SW issues.
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Jul 23, 2015 23:26
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I'm into the part of New Mutants were Sienkiewicz is doing a lot of the art. Its really neat how he draws Warlock, but he also seems to use the same style for everything, like the Demon Bear and Sunspot.
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Jul 23, 2015 23:29
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Rick posted:There were definitely people on this forum who loved Fraction's run while it was ongoing, the fact alone there's proof of multiple people liking it makes it a pretty wide gap from Austen. I really think Fraction's run wasn't all that bad, and that our recollection of it is tainted by Fear Itself (which was one in a long list of examples of a smaller story that suffered immeasurably when it was made to balloon out to a linewide crossover) and by Greg Land's art. I mean, it wasn't Morrison or anything, but it wasn't bad. I do wonder how many of his stories were essentially retooled story ideas that he never got the chance to do with The Order after it was cancelled so criminally, though.
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Jul 24, 2015 02:09
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:I really think Fraction's run wasn't all that bad, and that our recollection of it is tainted by Fear Itself (which was one in a long list of examples of a smaller story that suffered immeasurably when it was made to balloon out to a linewide crossover) and by Greg Land's art. Gillen was the sole writer during fear itself
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Jul 24, 2015 03:14
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I didn't hate Brian Wood's Adjectiveless X-Men, and if we can count books that don't actually have X-Men in the title but are about mutants, Milligan/Allred's X-Force/X-Statix is loving brilliant, and while I have't read it yet, I've heard good things about Warren Ellis' Excalibur, and I like Warren Ellis in general (though I know the consensus is against his Astonishing X-Men).
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Jul 24, 2015 04:48
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Skwirl posted:I didn't hate Brian Wood's Adjectiveless X-Men, and if we can count books that don't actually have X-Men in the title but are about mutants, Milligan/Allred's X-Force/X-Statix is loving brilliant, and while I have't read it yet, I've heard good things about Warren Ellis' Excalibur, and I like Warren Ellis in general (though I know the consensus is against his Astonishing X-Men). Ellis's first arc was decent unless you happened to be a fan of Forge, his second was pretty good, and Kaare Andrews managed to gently caress up the third beyond all recognition. His Excalibur hasn't aged particularly well, but it's head and shoulders above everything else that was going on in the X-books at the time.
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Jul 24, 2015 07:00
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Skwirl posted:I didn't hate Brian Wood's Adjectiveless X-Men, and if we can count books that don't actually have X-Men in the title but are about mutants, Milligan/Allred's X-Force/X-Statix is loving brilliant, and while I have't read it yet, I've heard good things about Warren Ellis' Excalibur, and I like Warren Ellis in general (though I know the consensus is against his Astonishing X-Men). Agreed about x-Statix but since people are talking about bad X-Men runs, Peter Milligans short X-Men run is pretty bad. Arguably because people were too hyped for him some some crazy genre breaking stuff and he just turned in a bland workman like book.
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Jul 24, 2015 21:35
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Fraction was saddled with not just Greg Land on art but when you were given a respite there was a good chance you'd have Portacio art instead. I don't think it was a bad run per se, but I never did really swallow him using his short(ish) run to bring back both Kitty Pryde and Psylocke in totally separate arcs.
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Jul 24, 2015 21:56
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I'm working my way through vol 1 of New Mutants, and it feels like I'm missing issues. They rescue Karma from the Shadow King but she's still fat, and then brightwing shows up, then they're all back to normal and Karma is skinny again. I know that Xi'an lost all her weight during the Asgardian Wars, and I know the new mutants were involved in that because i have the issues in Essential Xmen vol 7. Did all that happen only in Uncanny X-men, and just skip over it in New Mutants.
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Jul 26, 2015 00:03
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New mutants had a special that isn't part of their numbered main series. It's collected In the Asgard wars trade or you can just get it by itself on Comixology.
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Jul 26, 2015 01:06
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CharlestheHammer posted:New mutants had a special that isn't part of their numbered main series. It's collected In the Asgard wars trade or you can just get it by itself on Comixology. Ah! That would explain why it seems the main NM series just skips it. Also, which of Claremont's fetishes is this catering too? http://i.imgur.com/2Mu76sa.jpg
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Jul 26, 2015 02:03
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My gut tells me "bondage", but they are hands.
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Jul 26, 2015 02:07
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Four Score posted:My gut tells me "bondage", but they are hands. Yea, it feels like more. Also, I'm pretty sure the script had everything in that picture described in detail, including 15 year old girl underboob. 
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Jul 26, 2015 02:43
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You got me to go look and see if any of Claremont's scripts were available online, and I found a page. He doesn't write comics like anyone else I've ever seen, which is interesting. http://www.alandavis-comicart.com/images/WScriptExcal1.jpg I'd be equally likely to attribute the, ah, boobishness of that particular scene to Art Adams, myself.
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Jul 26, 2015 03:59
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Wanderer posted:I'd be equally likely to attribute the, ah, boobishness of that particular scene to Art Adams, myself.
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Jul 26, 2015 04:39
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Wanderer posted:You got me to go look and see if any of Claremont's scripts were available online, and I found a page. He doesn't write comics like anyone else I've ever seen, which is interesting. That's a pretty interesting script. Looks like it's written 'Marvel Method'(script written more like a story for the artist, words added later after art is drawn), which probably explains all the words, but I'm still kind of amused by how much it still sounds like a Claremont comic.
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Jul 26, 2015 08:42
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Man I've always felt like writing comics was impossible because I thought I had to make storyboards and draw for poo poo. I can write a screenplay.
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Jul 26, 2015 08:53
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Rick posted:Man I've always felt like writing comics was impossible because I thought I had to make storyboards and draw for poo poo. I can write a screenplay. There's pretty much no 'correct' way to write comics, as long as you can communicate exactly what you want in the page to your artist. Screenplays have to be standardised because so many people need to use them, but when it's just you and an artist/s then it's all down to how you prefer to collaborate. The much harder part is understanding the 'language' of comics and using it effectively. It's tempting to write them as if they're for film or TV, but they're a very different medium. One of the advantages of the Marvel Method is it allows the artist to have a large degree of control over what goes on the page. Compare that to someone like Alan Moore's scripts, who is very very exact about exactly what goes down. His scripts are famously like novels.
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Jul 26, 2015 09:32
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Rick posted:Man I've always felt like writing comics was impossible because I thought I had to make storyboards and draw for poo poo. I can write a screenplay. For a lot of recent writers, that's more or less exactly what they do. Track down a few "Director's Cut" reprints and you can find script samples in the back.
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Jul 26, 2015 17:18
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A lot of writers also tailor their scripts to their artist's style if they've worked with them a lot.
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Jul 26, 2015 17:29
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Wanderer posted:You got me to go look and see if any of Claremont's scripts were available online, and I found a page. He doesn't write comics like anyone else I've ever seen, which is interesting. That's really cool, and yea, as I suspected, Claremont puts insane detail into laying out everything including the contents of the room. I know Claremont is driving the makeup of the team, but needing to remember who's on the team issue to issue is probably a pain in the rear end. I'm not too familiar with Adams work, but its kinda jarring for this era, as I always associated super sexy superhero ladies with more modern artists like the 90s to today. And Empath, is literally the worst. I hope he died horribly to a Sentinel.
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Jul 26, 2015 18:54
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twistedmentat posted:I'm not too familiar with Adams work, but its kinda jarring for this era, as I always associated super sexy superhero ladies with more modern artists like the 90s to today. Adams is pretty foundational. He's a big influence on J. Scott Campbell, by Campbell's admission, so Adams is one of the grandfathers of the early '90s Image art style along with Masamune Shirow.
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Jul 26, 2015 19:55
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krakagar posted:There's pretty much no 'correct' way to write comics, as long as you can communicate exactly what you want in the page to your artist. Screenplays have to be standardised because so many people need to use them, but when it's just you and an artist/s then it's all down to how you prefer to collaborate. There's an interview Claremont did a few years ago (one of several hour-plus long ones that's up on YouTube) where he was asked about his approach to writing; he said that when he's working with artists like John Byrne, Jim Lee, Arthur Adams, Alan Davis and so on, he likes to give them a plot with lots of ideas they could use rather than an ultra-descriptive script of ideas they must use and see what they come up with, but if he's writing for an artist he doesn't know as well (or, as is sometimes the case, doesn't have English as a first language), he would write a full script. quote:One of the advantages of the Marvel Method is it allows the artist to have a large degree of control over what goes on the page. Compare that to someone like Alan Moore's scripts, who is very very exact about exactly what goes down. His scripts are famously like novels. I like Dave Gibbons's story about how he'd get the scripts for an issue of Watchmen and the first thing he'd have to do was go through it and number all the pages because there was so much it would take him hours to get it back in order if he dropped it.
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Jul 26, 2015 20:51
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Wheat Loaf posted:I like Dave Gibbons's story about how he'd get the scripts for an issue of Watchmen and the first thing he'd have to do was go through it and number all the pages because there was so much it would take him hours to get it back in order if he dropped it. Didn't Gibbons also say he'd just ignore half of what Moore wrote?
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Jul 26, 2015 21:16
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I don't know, but he did say there'd be pages upon page of single-spaced text, then each panel description would end like, "But if you have a better idea, feel free to use that instead."
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Jul 26, 2015 23:51
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I've seen some of Moore's scripts/notes, and they are very charming and affable.
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Jul 27, 2015 00:15
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Lurdiak posted:I've seen some of Moore's scripts/notes, and they are very charming and affable.
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Jul 27, 2015 03:56
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Lurdiak posted:I've seen some of Moore's scripts/notes, and they are very charming and affable. Very affable! I loving love the script for the first panel of watchmen which takes a page. It starts with "we focus on a drain, with blood running into it, there's a smiley face badge with a smear of blood on it." And then he goes on this page long discussion of all the themes of the book, and suggests putting in a joke candybar wrapper but "if it doesn't fit don't worry about it we'll have plenty of time for our cute made up products" and then there is a long discussion of whether or not making Rorschach's journal a different color from all the other monologue stuff is too visuall gimmicky and then finishes with something like "anyway, let's get some top shelf drain art going shall we." Dialogue (insert): Rorschach's Journal, OCTOBER 12, 1985: Dog carcass in alley this morning. Tire tread on burst stomach... (etc etc)
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Jul 28, 2015 13:54
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This talk about scripts makes me curious whether there are notable comic scripts out there that were never produced for whatever reason. Is that a thing? Kinda like how there is the Black List for unproduced movie scripts.
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Jul 28, 2015 22:33
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MY ABACUS! posted:This talk about scripts makes me curious whether there are notable comic scripts out there that were never produced for whatever reason. Is that a thing? Kinda like how there is the Black List for unproduced movie scripts. Comic writers are usually hired to write a thing rather than buying a script from someone. And if they're pitching to a publisher they have to have an artist with some finished art in the pitch. At least with all the submission guidelines I've seen.
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Jul 28, 2015 22:46
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Unmature posted:Comic writers are usually hired to write a thing rather than buying a script from someone. And if they're pitching to a publisher they have to have an artist with some finished art in the pitch. At least with all the submission guidelines I've seen.
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Jul 28, 2015 22:54
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MY ABACUS! posted:This talk about scripts makes me curious whether there are notable comic scripts out there that were never produced for whatever reason.
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Jul 28, 2015 22:58
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