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Xenomrph posted:I'm going to quote a post from another thread that seems apropos right about now. Nothing in the film contradicts the interpretation that Kyle is crazy.
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Jul 26, 2015 19:31
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Xenomrph posted:I'm going to quote a post from another thread that seems apropos right about now. 
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Jul 26, 2015 19:36
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Xenomrph posted:At one point as a thought experiment I tried to come up with a way to remake 'The Terminator', but do it in a way that "the twist" is that Reese really is in fact crazy and delusional like the police say he is, and that he and "the terminator" aren't actually from "the future". Interesting idea. Here's my pitch. You have a Terminator and person sent back. The Terminator is hunting down someone and finds them. The person sent back saves the target during the first encounter but quickly dies unable to reveal what's actually happening. The target has seen enough to know that an unstoppable man is after them and is on their own to survive. It'd be tonally similar to the first movie but the characters would be unique except for the T800 skeleton. It'd be a much cheaper movie to make and could focus on being an R rated suspense film.
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Jul 26, 2015 19:36
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ghostwritingduck posted:Interesting idea. Here's my pitch. You have a Terminator and person sent back. The Terminator is hunting down someone and finds them. The person sent back saves the target during the first encounter but quickly dies unable to reveal what's actually happening. The target has seen enough to know that an unstoppable man is after them and is on their own to survive. It'd be tonally similar to the first movie but the characters would be unique except for the T800 skeleton. It'd be a much cheaper movie to make and could focus on being an R rated suspense film. Strip it down even further ONLY the T-800 is sent back. So out of nowhere, this serial killer who seems impossible to stop is after the main character who slowly but surely learns more about what, though not WHO, the threat is.
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Jul 26, 2015 19:38
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Nothing in the film contradicts the interpretation that Kyle is crazy. I had messed around with a similar thought experiment for 'Child's Play', remake it in a way where "Chucky" isn't actually a killer doll and Andy is actually the one committing the murders. To be fair that was in fact one of the original "plot twist" pitches for the movie before they decided to devote to the "killer doll" idea. Burkion posted:Strip it down even further Xenomrph fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Jul 26, 2015 |
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Jul 26, 2015 19:45
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Xenomrph posted:It does contradict the interpretation that Kyle and "the terminator" aren't actually from the future and that "the terminator" isn't actually a cyborg endoskeleton covered in living tissue, which were the parameters of my thought experiment, though. No it doesn't.
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Jul 26, 2015 19:48
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:No it doesn't. SuperMechagodzilla posted:When everything in the film contradicts your interpretation, it means that you've messed up and need to start over.
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Jul 26, 2015 19:49
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Nothing in the film contradicts the interpretation that Kyle is crazy. Did Kyle's crazy pass onto Sarah and her son like an STD?
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Jul 26, 2015 19:57
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ghostwritingduck posted:Did Kyle's crazy pass onto Sarah and her son like an STD?
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Jul 26, 2015 20:00
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Xenomrph posted:The problem with this is it's sort of trying to put the genie back in the bottle - how do you tell that story without boring the audience, because the audience would know more than the main character through the whole thing? I agree. Here's a premise that could possibly work. In the future Skynet has successfully wiped out humanity but realizes that this was a mistake since its doomed itself to an existence of total isolation. It's now sending Terminators back for the purpose of shaping a future where it still exists but in a world that resembles a utopia instead of a wasteland.
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Jul 26, 2015 20:05
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Something like that could be cool if more than one robot was able to learn instead of being "read only," so you could have the revelation of some robots doing, without context, terrible things that will in fact ensure a hyper-prosperous man and robot in harmony society in the future, but still have suspense regarding the overall motivations of some of the characters.
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Jul 26, 2015 20:17
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Xenomrph posted:The problem with this is it's sort of trying to put the genie back in the bottle - how do you tell that story without boring the audience, because the audience would know more than the main character through the whole thing? You'd have to market it in such a way that no one learns that it's a Terminator movie until the reveal at the end, or not make a Terminator movie. It's a neat idea though.
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Jul 26, 2015 20:21
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Nothing in the film contradicts the interpretation that Kyle is crazy. Honestly SMG I was never your biggest fan, but I'm really disappointed you're so hard-up that you have to start making these kind of posts. Although, I am anxiously awaiting your analysis about how Batman is actually the real villain because he's a rich guy that beats up the mentally ill. Maybe you can swing by TV IV and tell us about how Spongebob characters are actually the seven deadly sins?
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Jul 26, 2015 20:32
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Xenomrph posted:Forget it, kid; it's Supermechagodzilla-town. You could have just posted a picture of Kyle falling from the sky surrounded by lightning like an angel before impregnating Sarah with the Messiah (with the Terminator appearing by rising up from the ground). Both observed by a third person.
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Jul 26, 2015 20:34
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Darko posted:You could have just posted a picture of Kyle falling from the sky surrounded by lightning like an angel before impregnating Sarah with the Messiah (with the Terminator appearing by rising up from the ground). Both observed by a third person. Kyle is an agent of Satan, sent into the world to impregnate Sarah with the Anti-Christ; John Connor will lead the human resistance and force SkyNet to eradicate all humans in response. The Terminator is an Angel sent by God to prevent this ending of the world. It feels weird trying to do SMG's thing.
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Jul 26, 2015 20:39
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ghostwritingduck posted:Did Kyle's crazy pass onto Sarah and her son like an STD? It's passed on the same way as in They Live. James Cameron and John Carpenter don't actually believe we're being invaded by interdimensional skeleton monsters. The skeleton monsters are just a metaphor for rich people. The point of a metaphor, however, is that there's more truth to it than in just blunt the facts. Characters in Terminator see the truth by 'going crazy'. But ultimately, neither the 'future war' nor the 'present day' of 1984 are real. They're both fakes.
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Jul 26, 2015 20:42
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:It's passed on the same way as in They Live. Judging by your posting you must see ALL the truth then.
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Jul 26, 2015 20:43
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:It's passed on the same way as in They Live. Can you now do an analysis about how Harry Potter doesn't actually go to Hogwarts and live a life as a wizard, but is instead daydreaming a new life for himself so he doesn't need to deal with the reality of living under the stairs?
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Jul 26, 2015 20:46
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WarLocke posted:Kyle is an agent of Satan, sent into the world to impregnate Sarah with the Anti-Christ; John Connor will lead the human resistance and force SkyNet to eradicate all humans in response. The Terminator is an Angel sent by God to prevent this ending of the world. The snake is the true hero of the Bible in a pretty straight read, sooo...
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Jul 26, 2015 20:47
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Lady Naga posted:Maybe you can swing by TV IV and tell us about how Spongebob characters are actually the seven deadly sins? For him to be plot-correct, You have to believe everything Kyle says along with his bizarre dream-sequences where he imagines he's caught in a war with lazer robots. If you met someone who insists this, there would never be sufficient proof they were correct - even if I met the Terminator I would be dubious as to the whole future-war thing. It wouldn't be enough proof. It would be a single killer robot. You see my point? What makes Terminator so lazer-precise as a piece of social commentary is that it recognises that Kyle is both crazy (especially in the sense that he at least has catastrophic PTSD, much like real veterans of real wars) and correct. What he's 'imagining' is a distorted form of the truth. There really is a machine that crushes humanity beneath it - and it is called Capitalism. There's a reason the main character works a lovely job and has a lovely boss, and after being woken up to the truth, jumps the border and hangs out with a bunch of revolutionaries. It is one of very few films that attempts to point out the truth hidden inside what could easily be dismissed as madness. The future events, and the basic image of machines being twisted against their creators, are metaphors. None of it is real beyond the confines of the film, and therefore has to be read as a stand-in for something else.
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Jul 26, 2015 20:50
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Hbomberguy posted:What contradicts the reading that this is true? It has nothing to do with being true or not and everything to do with "[character from sci-fi/fantasy franchise of your choosing] is actually crazy and none of the events of this film actually happen!!!!" is some serious Gawker-level bullshit film analysis and is a severe downturn from Watchmen is about penis envy or w/e.
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Jul 26, 2015 20:53
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Technically, none of Terminator really happened. It's a film. I'm not saying the events of the film didn't diagetically happen. I am saying they are metaphorical. You have also failed to explain what contradicts your own joke-reading of Spongebob.
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Jul 26, 2015 20:58
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Hbomberguy posted:Technically, none of Terminator really happened. It's a film. Lady Naga posted:It has nothing to do with being true or not The problem is that "a character is actually crazy and nothing happened!" as presented is such a broad analysis that it can apply to pretty much any film that features fantastical elements and as such it is a useless analysis as it offers nothing interesting or substantive to the discussion. Much like how "Spongebob is the seven deadly sins!" is useless because cartoon characters are gross oversimplifications of complex issues and thus can be a standin for basically anything if you want it bad enough.
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Jul 26, 2015 21:04
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:It's passed on the same way as in They Live. You're mixing up "subtext" with "text". Hbomberguy posted:What contradicts the reading that this is true?  The movie's opening text, which exists before Kyle even enters the picture. Even if the particulars of Kyle's dreams aren't accurate, we do know that yes, Kyle and the cyborg robot killing machine known as the Terminator come from an apocalyptic nuclear-war-blasted future where robots are trying to exterminate mankind. All of this could mean other things as subtextual metaphors, but if we're talking what takes place within the plot of the movie, then no Kyle (mostly) isn't crazy.
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Jul 26, 2015 21:06
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Xenomrph posted:Within the narrative they're real. The characters are experiencing them. Cameron explicitly spells this out in the opening text. Yeah but what if Kyle dreamed up that opening text? What if his experiences are all a dream? What if Kyle is actually asleep in a Motel 5 and the entire events of the movie are just his dreams?
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Jul 26, 2015 21:08
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Lady Naga posted:The problem is that "a character is actually crazy and nothing happened!" as presented is such a broad analysis that it can apply to pretty much any film that features fantastical elements and as such it is a useless analysis as it offers nothing interesting or substantive to the discussion. Much like how "Spongebob is the seven deadly sins!" is useless because cartoon characters are gross oversimplifications of complex issues and thus can be a standin for basically anything if you want it bad enough. You have also failed to explain what contradicts your own joke-reading of Spongebob.
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Jul 26, 2015 21:08
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Lady Naga posted:Yeah but what if Kyle dreamed up that opening text? What if his experiences are all a dream? What if Kyle is actually asleep in a Motel 5 and the entire events of the movie are just his dreams? (I'm agreeing with your point)
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Jul 26, 2015 21:10
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Lady Naga posted:Can you now do an analysis about how Harry Potter doesn't actually go to Hogwarts and live a life as a wizard, but is instead daydreaming a new life for himself so he doesn't need to deal with the reality of living under the stairs? The entirety of Harry Potter is fictional, including the stairs.
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Jul 26, 2015 21:12
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Lady Naga posted:Although, I am anxiously awaiting your analysis about how Batman is actually the real villain because he's a rich guy that beats up the mentally ill. They made this movie. It's called The Dark Knight Rises.
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Jul 26, 2015 21:14
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The entirety of Harry Potter is fictional, including the stairs.
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Jul 26, 2015 21:15
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Hbomberguy posted:You have also failed to explain what contradicts your own joke-reading of Spongebob. What if Ash is in a coma and Pokemon is just his dying brain imagining things??? WHAT IF EVERYONE IN ED EDD N EDDY ARE ACTUALLY DEAD AND STUCK IN PURGATORY!?!?!??!
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Jul 26, 2015 21:16
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Hbomberguy posted:What contradicts the reading that this is true? For a brief wonderful second I thought the thread would start to talk about the seven deadly sins of Spongebob.
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Jul 26, 2015 21:17
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RBA Starblade posted:For a brief wonderful second I thought the thread would start to talk about the seven deadly sins of Spongebob. No it's true. Patrick is sloth because he lazes around all day, Squidward is wrath because he gets angry at Spongebob all the time, Mr.Krabs is greed because he loves money, Plankton is envy because he wants the Krabby Patty formula, Sandy is pride because she thinks she can do everything and Gary is gluttony because he wants to eat all the time!!!
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Jul 26, 2015 21:19
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Lady Naga posted:No it's true. Patrick is sloth because he lazes around all day, Squidward is wrath because he gets angry at Spongebob all the time, Mr.Krabs is greed because he loves money, Plankton is envy because he wants the Krabby Patty formula, Sandy is pride because she thinks she can do everything and Gary is gluttony because he wants to eat all the time!!! If that makes Spongebob lust I don't like this reading anymore.
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Jul 26, 2015 21:21
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RBA Starblade posted:If that makes Spongebob lust I don't like this reading anymore. Woops sorry I left him out! Spongebob is lust because he wants to be everyone's friend and also does some weird psychosexual stuff with Squidward occasionally (like stalking his house).
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Jul 26, 2015 21:25
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Lady Naga posted:Yeah but what if Kyle dreamed up that opening text? What if his experiences are all a dream? What if Kyle is actually asleep in a Motel 5 and the entire events of the movie are just his dreams? You're getting confused, thinking it's either a dream or not. Terminator is about reality as a shared fiction, and the protagonists come up with a better fiction. It's a religious film.
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Jul 26, 2015 21:30
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:You're getting confused, thinking it's either a dream or not. The original point is: Xenomrph posted:At one point as a thought experiment I tried to come up with a way to remake 'The Terminator', but do it in a way that "the twist" is that Reese really is in fact crazy and delusional like the police say he is, and that he and "the terminator" aren't actually from "the future".
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Jul 26, 2015 21:33
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Why are you doing this to yourselves.
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Jul 26, 2015 21:38
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Film's aren't real. No one exists on purpose. Everyone's gonna die. lets go watch some TV.
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Jul 26, 2015 21:38
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Neo Rasa posted:Why are you doing this to yourselves. Because I'm genuinely ashamed that the great SMG has fallen from weird and neat film interpretations that get everyone all riled up to things I'd see on WhatCulture 
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Jul 26, 2015 21:40
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