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Just read through it, seems like that GSF itself doesn't confer ObSec, but the Battle Demi-Company formations that are contained within it have ObSec. I forgot what a chore it is to read GW codices. e: So if he was running two demi-companies to get the free transports in the GSF, he'd potentially have: 2 captains/chaplains 0-2 command squads 6 tactical squads 2 bike/speed/centurian squads 2 devastator/centurion squads 0-2 dreadnoughts with ObSec. Anything else like vindicators, flyers, land raiders etc wouldn't get ObSec. ijyt fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Jul 26, 2015 |
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Jul 26, 2015 14:23
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Huh. So you're telling me that at the end of the game when he had 3 Hunters, 1 Stalker, 1 Devastator squad (5 guys), 7 Drop Pods and 2 Razorbacks that only 1 of those things had ObSec?
Boon fucked around with this message at 14:32 on Jul 26, 2015 |
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Jul 26, 2015 14:29
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Boon posted:Huh. The drop pods and razorbacks did too, but not the hunter/stalkers. ObSec drop pods are poo.
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Jul 26, 2015 14:32
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In an objective game, how is anyone supposed to fight against a 9 drop pod and 2 Razorback GSF army? They're armor 12 and open-topped (right?) so what the hell are you supposed to do when they just drop on the objectives? I haven't seen any discussion on this so I'm frankly at a loss. I knew people were upset about the free units, but I haven't seen discussion on the ObSec piece which is, frankly, far more game-breaking than template D-Weapons.
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Jul 26, 2015 14:34
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Not sure really. With my Tau I try to intercept them when they come down, and if that doesn't work and they're on an objective then just try and whittle them down whenever there's an opening/nothng more urgent to shoot at. But with 9 drop pods at 1850 its kind of a different story.
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Jul 26, 2015 14:37
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The way my group, when we still played regularly, handled ObSec on transports etc was that if the actual squad that was embarked on the vehicle was inside, it received obsec. So a group of marines huddling in a drop pod or vets in a chimera would get the benefit of obsec while parked on an objective. If the squad left the transport for any reason the vehicle lost obsec. It didn't fix everything, but it definitely took the edge off of list fuckery like splitting off the embarked units from their transports during deployment and going MSU. I don't know how you guys all felt about the maelstrom of war missions but all my experience with them has essentially been that if you get lucky and gain a point or 3 on the first turn, you tend to not lose that advantage and it came down to not who was better at the game but whoever got lucky with their initial draw. I've only played like...4 games with maelstrom cards and I did not have fun with the system. It would probably be better to arrange them so that certain armies got missions that actually suited their playstyle.
Ultramega fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Jul 26, 2015 |
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Jul 26, 2015 15:05
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ijyt posted:Not sure really. With my Tau I try to intercept them when they come down, and if that doesn't work and they're on an objective then just try and whittle them down whenever there's an opening/nothng more urgent to shoot at. How many points of free ObSec models would that be? I don't play marines, but suspect it's gotta be like 75pts x 9 at least? So nearly 700 points? Can Drop pods take upgrades? I just played my first game since, I think, November. It was 1850 of my guard allied with 1850 Eldar versus two Necron Decurions with destroyer cults and poo poo. Basically the wraith knight with CC D-weapons tanked all the shooting while I blew up all the transports with artillery and Vanquishers. Hammer and Anvil deployment heavily favoured our side. By the end of turn two they just had foot sloggers and jet bikes, and hadn't made it out of their deployment zone. Their fliers had come in, but my two Vendetta's and the Hydra sitting in the back kept them on the defensive. By the end of turn three we called it. They had just reached the edge of their deployment zone and my troops and tanks were just eating anything that was 18 inches (about as close as they got) to our deployment zone, while the wraith knight and wraith guard were running amok in their back field. I didn't lose a single model, and my artillery was as deadly to my Eldar ally as the Necron shooting - which is just kind of sad. Even if they did manage to take out the wraith units, the battered survivors would have had to walk into the kill zones I had set up, through a hail of artillery, and dodging my vendetta shots. Then dealt with 60 guardsmen, and a tooled up Company Command Squad, tooled up Inquisitor, and Command Tank squadron to get close to our objectives. It was a I;m curious what the future holds for the AM, Will Leman Russ Battle Tanks get fixed so they can actually do what they are supposed to? Will special weapons get a points reduction? What free special rules can I expect to get for my foot slogging guardsmen when they release formations? How many Vendetta's and Chimera's will I be expected to buy?
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Jul 26, 2015 15:06
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Sir Teabag posted:I;m curious what the future holds for the AM, Will Leman Russ Battle Tanks get fixed- no
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Jul 26, 2015 15:10
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Sir Teabag posted:AM Questions I feel like the changes to the units themselves are going to be minimal, but there will be formations up the wazoo. Guarantee there will be Leman Russ formations, artillery formations, and we may even see platoons become formations. Formations all day long!
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Jul 26, 2015 15:16
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Sir Teabag posted:How many points of free ObSec models would that be? I don't play marines, but suspect it's gotta be like 75pts x 9 at least? So nearly 700 points? Can Drop pods take upgrades? He had 380 point in "free" and objective securing units. So we were effectively playing 1850 vs 2230. Unsurprisingly, it felt like it. Boon fucked around with this message at 15:27 on Jul 26, 2015 |
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Jul 26, 2015 15:24
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lol. That's what I think too. Master Twig posted:I feel like the changes to the units themselves are going to be minimal, but there will be formations up the wazoo. Guarantee there will be Leman Russ formations, artillery formations, and we may even see platoons become formations. Formations all day long! If I could get some benefit for often having over a hundred lovely flashlights on the table, and the head ache of occasionally moving them, believe me - I'm taking it! Horde guard looks so cool, and is cool in theory, but actually moving those fuckers around on the board? Nah... I'll sit and wait thanks. I'll just move a tank or two and then shoot. Boon posted:He had 380 point in "free" units. So we were effectively playing 1850 vs 2230, and it felt like it. Yikes... If I were to play that, I simply wouldn't have the resources to deal with the transports and the contents. I don't think many, outside of Eldar and an opposing "free poo poo" marine list, would.
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Jul 26, 2015 15:25
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PierreTheMime posted:This is great and the kind of stuff that makes the hobby really fun. Are you going to do boar-riders as bloodcrushers? I think my vague plan was boarboys for fleshhounds and mangler squigs for the bloodcrushers (probably not actual manglers but something about that size). Still planning it out though  I need to do more diggas to, maybe a digga CSM thing so I can use the Daemonkin formations.
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Jul 26, 2015 15:46
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What's particularly broken with Leman Russ tanks?
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Jul 26, 2015 15:50
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 You see this loving charge? This 6" charge? Pendant failed that against me yesterday in a real laugher of a game. More goofy poo poo: a squad of Wraiths being wiped out by a squad of tactical marines, a Stormraven vaporizing another vehicle for the first time ever, and a squad of Death Company failing to kill more than a couple Necron Warriors in an assault, only to be wiped off the table in response. Zandrekh and Orikan in the same squad is some real bullshit y'all. Cakefool posted:What's particularly broken with Leman Russ tanks? Leman Russes with Battle Cannons have to snap shoot the rest of their weapons, making the other weapons and sponsons on a regular Leman Russ completely pointless. panascope fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Jul 26, 2015 |
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Jul 26, 2015 15:54
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Cakefool posted:What's particularly broken with Leman Russ tanks? BS3 means they just aren't that effective at shooting, and though they do have great front and side armor, their rear armor makes them really susceptible to assault or getting outmaneuvered. They're alright, just maybe a bit overpointed for what they do. I'm still a big fan of running Pask in a punisher with multi-melta sponsons. He's a big target, but most things shot by him are gonna die. Even better if you get a Psyker to cast prescience on him.
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Jul 26, 2015 15:59
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I wonder if you'd be able to make a system where a charge is an automatic success depending on base size. So a model on a 32mm base or smaller can just charge in at 3" from the enemy, 40-60mm at 6", and anything larget at 8" or something.
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Jul 26, 2015 16:01
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Sir Teabag posted:How many points of free ObSec models would that be? I don't play marines, but suspect it's gotta be like 75pts x 9 at least? So nearly 700 points? Can Drop pods take upgrades? You have to pay for upgrades. i.e., for a razorback, you only get the heavy bolter for free, but have to pay if you want tlac/lcpg, etc.
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Jul 26, 2015 16:05
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Cakefool posted:What's particularly broken with Leman Russ tanks? panascope posted:
Master Twig posted:BS3 means they just aren't that effective at shooting, and though they do have great front and side armor, their rear armor makes them really susceptible to assault or getting outmaneuvered. They're alright, just maybe a bit overpointed for what they do. I'm still a big fan of running Pask in a punisher with multi-melta sponsons. He's a big target, but most things shot by him are gonna die. Even better if you get a Psyker to cast prescience on him. Yeah, so basically they are over priced and you can either fire the battle cannon, or fire your other weapons. They get rather expensive if you trick them out. Unless you use a psyker to give them ignore's cover they large blast strength 8 ap 3 blast is kind of "meh" as well, given the prevalence of cover. Some of the variant's are well priced for what they do - but bs 3 on anything that isn't twin linked, or that is just a single shot really is iffy at best. I'd just like to use my battle tanks as they are modelled one day - battle cannon and a ton of heavy bolters shredding enemy mini's all day. I usually proxy the battle tanks I have as vanquishers or exterminators, and use my plasma tank as a plasma tank.
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Jul 26, 2015 16:08
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Sir Teabag posted:I'd just like to use my battle tanks as they are modelled one day - battle cannon and a ton of heavy bolters shredding enemy mini's all day. I usually proxy the battle tanks I have as vanquishers or exterminators, and use my plasma tank as a plasma tank. Maybe this is something you already know and are sick of hearing, in which case sorry: it is really easy to magnetise all 3 options on the modern demolisher kit turret, the stock leman russ has 4 options which are also easy (you can only have vanquisher or battle cannon, but just glue together which variant looks cooler and use it as either - no one cares or can tell the difference). Hull weapons stick in so don't even need magnets to swap. Sponsons likewise, I haven't assembled my sponsons (I don't like the look) but you could easily mag or even blu-tack the sponson onto the hull, and just slot the weapons in and out. I literally have a bag of leman russ options (all weapons and dozer blades) which I carry around. Only problem is I inevitably forget to throw the bag in my case with the army and end up playing a game with 3 weaponless tanks occasionally.
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Jul 26, 2015 16:49
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ijyt posted:I wonder if you'd be able to make a system where a charge is an automatic success depending on base size. I'd rather that if you are within 6" you don't have to roll, but if the target is beyond 6" or you're charging through difficult terrain then you roll 2d6.
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Jul 26, 2015 16:51
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Slimnoid posted:I'd rather that if you are within 6" you don't have to roll, but if the target is beyond 6" or you're charging through difficult terrain then you roll 2d6. Way too elegant and simple that way. Also none of that super random "forging the narrative" excuse making for the failed charges.
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Jul 26, 2015 17:11
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LingcodKilla posted:Way too elegant and simple that way. Also none of that super random "forging the narrative" excuse making for the failed charges. Oh god I've been playing one system too long haven't I. e: the cargo cult is real
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Jul 26, 2015 17:14
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TheChirurgeon posted:Anti-infantry: You want to take 1-2 Heldrakes if you can. They're solid units and baleflamers can wipe out whole squads of MEQs. They're also your only real way to deal with flyers. Vindicators are also fairly solid for taking MEQs off the board and relatively low-cost. Thanks a lot for the advice I only have 1 heldrake but the guy who is hosting the game is very liberal and will let me sub something for a second heldrake. I do have 2 vindicators so I was thinking of taking those as well. I don't have any defilers so that's cool about not taking those. About Oblits is it better to take them in squads of two or three? I don't really have a biker squad but I have models that I could use to sub some in. I thought that the 3 Helbrute squad sounds good because I thought they could choose three different targets.
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Jul 26, 2015 17:26
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panascope posted:
I'm choosing to believe the Knight's pilot had a stroke and fell down. That tac squad was definitely mvp, though. Oh, and yes that warrior blob was some bullshit. I hit it with 4 battlecannon shots without a single unsaved wound. Pendent fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Jul 26, 2015 |
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Jul 26, 2015 19:51
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Ultragonk posted:Thanks a lot for the advice I only have 1 heldrake but the guy who is hosting the game is very liberal and will let me sub something for a second heldrake. I do have 2 vindicators so I was thinking of taking those as well. I don't have any defilers so that's cool about not taking those. About Oblits is it better to take them in squads of two or three? I don't really have a biker squad but I have models that I could use to sub some in. I thought that the 3 Helbrute squad sounds good because I thought they could choose three different targets. You don't "need' 2 Heldrakes. You could probably do with a couple vindicators instead, but part of the beauty of heldrakes is that they take up a FA slot instead of HS. Oblits are better in squads of 3, just because you get more massed firepower that way. The 3 Helbrute squad is neat but I'm not sure it's anything more than a novelty. Helbrutes lack really great weapons and 1/3 the time they won't be doing what you want them to (remember to have them each do their own thing). Still, it's fun as hell to run.
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Jul 26, 2015 20:57
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Just had my first game since 2014! Using new Khornate Daemonkin codex, getting the 4th ed mixed codex boys back together versus an IG player who I think just put together everything he had and came up with 1500 points. Really nice guy and had a great time playing but I think his list could have been a bit more fine tuned - which didn't matter because I basically got all the dice rolls. First deployment, first turn, warlord trait to let me infiltrate Warlord + 3 units, nightfighting, basically everything I needed for a turn 2 charge with most of my list. Herald on Juggernaut 4x Bloodcrushers 8x Bloodletters 8x Bloodletters 8x CSM in Rhino 8x CSM in Rhino Heldrake, baleflamer Heldrake, baleflamer 8x Flesh Hounds Maulerfiend Maulerfiend vs Pask w/ 1 other battlecannon LR 2x Enginseer Command platoon Vet squad with 1????? plasma gun in Chimera 2x 20 man blobs with flamers Devil Dog Sentinel with Lascannon Vendetta Pask did the most work, killing 7/8 marines out of a squad the first turn and killing my Herald and 3 of the 4 Bloodcrushers the next, but my Maulerfiends either saved all the hits, the melta / battlecannon blasts scattered, or they made their 2+ Crew stunned rolls and promptly devoured both Leman Russes. Heldrakes wiped one squad and disabled the SEntinel, flesh hounds tied up one of the 20 man squads the whole game, and after my third turn all he had was his Enginseers, 2x chimeras, the devil dog and the Vendetta with 1 HP. Question for anyone who plays with the Khorne codex - what do you use your Blood points for? Our game was very fast and bloody but even with that I think I only had 5 by the time we called it. Do you save them up for summoning or do you use them for the army buffs? The only one that seems worth it is the FnP buff, otherwise saving for a Bloodthirster?
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Jul 26, 2015 21:16
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So this is apparently a thing? Unsure if its legit or not. Hencoe fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Jul 26, 2015 |
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Jul 26, 2015 23:03
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Months ago there were rumours of an intro 30k plastic box. I guess they were right? I hope they have the forgeworld cool mkiv heads and not the gw ugly as hell ones.
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Jul 26, 2015 23:06
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Oh dear I hope that's some sort of intricate fake.
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Jul 26, 2015 23:17
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Hencoe posted:warseer sucks If you're going to image leach, at least do it from someone with some bandwidth. Edit: Those are some neat looking plastic marines though. drgnvale fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Jul 26, 2015 |
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Jul 26, 2015 23:21
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Hencoe posted:So this is apparently a thing? Unsure if its legit or not. What's the problem? Plastic is great.
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Jul 26, 2015 23:22
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drgnvale posted:If you're going to image leach, at least do it from someone with some bandwidth. I'm just copying what's sent to me. Effort in phone posting.
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Jul 26, 2015 23:23
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I weep for the mess of Forgeworld Heresy Ultras I got recently, but if I can bolster their ranks with more affordable duders you won't see me complaining.
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Jul 26, 2015 23:24
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Hencoe posted:So this is apparently a thing? Unsure if its legit or not. People can give Games Workshop poo poo for tons of things, but their current plastic kits are way way better quality than that. Those are elaborate mock ups but the detailing in the pieces is no where near what GW can produce. Great for China I suppose. I mean look at that attached Space Marine head in the first shot. 
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Jul 26, 2015 23:25
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Hencoe posted:So this is apparently a thing? Unsure if its legit or not. My dick is rock hard.
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Jul 26, 2015 23:25
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Now I'm wondering if these are compatible with the Chapter upgrade sprues. A quick check says they are. The swords on the Dark angel shoulderpads aren't broken for instance.
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Jul 26, 2015 23:40
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I'm also seeing if anyone on Warseer is going to get upset when I point out that they are planning to 'Age of Sigmar' 40k. Warseer is pretty bad.
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Jul 27, 2015 00:22
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30k is doomed if GW prime have taken an interest. That'll teach FW for being a success. I want to be wrong.
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Jul 27, 2015 00:25
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Vondizimo posted:30k is doomed if GW prime have taken an interest. That'll teach FW for being a success. I want to be wrong. Yeeeeah I hate to say it but I think I agree.
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Jul 27, 2015 01:11
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Genghis Cohen posted:Maybe this is something you already know and are sick of hearing, in which case sorry: it is really easy to magnetise all 3 options on the modern demolisher kit turret, the stock leman russ has 4 options which are also easy (you can only have vanquisher or battle cannon, but just glue together which variant looks cooler and use it as either - no one cares or can tell the difference). Hull weapons stick in so don't even need magnets to swap. Sponsons likewise, I haven't assembled my sponsons (I don't like the look) but you could easily mag or even blu-tack the sponson onto the hull, and just slot the weapons in and out. I literally have a bag of leman russ options (all weapons and dozer blades) which I carry around. Only problem is I inevitably forget to throw the bag in my case with the army and end up playing a game with 3 weaponless tanks occasionally. Haha, three weaponless tanks would be pretty good to lug around. I'd be disappointed with myself for that. I try to be as WYSISYG as possible. I've got Vendetta/Valkyries magnatized - when I bought them they were partially assembled. I didn't buy any of my Imp Guard new, so most things have already been assembled or partially assembled. That's why I'd like to be able to use the battle tanks as modelled for once. I normally just play them as vanquishers because the only difference is a longer barrel. So yeah, it's just the only downside of buying used - not getting the weapon sprues with the purchase. I'll just be on the look out for unassembled models should I decide to expand on my tank selection in the future.
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Jul 27, 2015 01:33
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