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I love this idea that somehow people in the South don't know we are racist. We know we are racist, people who are raised to adore the KKK flag and hate Lincoln know they are loving racist, infantilizing southernors is ridiculous. People alive today remember the lynchings, a massacre in a black church by a kid waving the Confederate flag just happened this summer. At least when I go visit my mom's Afrikaans family, the racist ones are open about it and no one there would be dumb enough to believe that someone waving the apartheid flag or the Afrikaner Resistance flag doesn't know their own loving history including the parts in living memory. American liberals are dumb.
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Jul 27, 2015 08:15
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VitalSigns posted:Yes it is all the same and yes it has all been plopped down by some Klan-friendly group, because that was literally what the Confederacy was about, why the Klan existed, and why people still use it today. Babylon Astronaut posted:I ask you why ignorance is only an excuse when people are pulling out the i-hate-niggers banner? Sometimes it's like Nuremberg never happened here.
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Jul 27, 2015 13:08
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Hazo posted:I agree. These two statements contradict one another. Ignorance is as ignorance does.
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Jul 27, 2015 13:10
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Mister Macys posted:Fair enough. It's just a slow news day, and the Satan statue being put up in Detroit was already posted. But did that story mention the most important part? http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2015/07/25/group-to-unveil-satan-statue-in-detroit-during-largest-public-satanic-ceremony-in-history/ quote:Group To Unveil Satan Statue In Detroit During ‘Largest Public Satanic Ceremony In History’ 
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Jul 27, 2015 13:12
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Sir Tonk posted:But did that story mention the most important part? Holy poo poo. Look at the comments. I've not seen so much crazy and frothing religious rage in at least a decade. Edit: Also the occasional racist comment that "Detroit is 99% blacks and muslims so it's already hell!" or something similar to that effect. Ditto to every other minority. Including one dude claiming that the jews are the biggest genocidal monsters in history.  quote:The satanic "Jews" are responsible for the mass invasion of hordes. They own 100% of US media and lie 24/7/365. They're doing something right to provoke people into outting themselves with crazy poo poo like that. Archonex fucked around with this message at 13:40 on Jul 27, 2015 |
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Jul 27, 2015 13:38
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Archonex posted:Holy poo poo. Look at the comments. I've not seen so much crazy and frothing religious rage in at least a decade. Really makes it difficult to tell which side worships evil and hate.
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Jul 27, 2015 13:40
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There's a loving truther in there.  I honestly thought they'd given up on beating that unicorn.
Keeshhound fucked around with this message at 13:48 on Jul 27, 2015 |
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Jul 27, 2015 13:43
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Seriously. If you want a good laugh or just want to be shocked at the state of humanity read those comments. It's amazing. And it just keeps going.
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Jul 27, 2015 13:44
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Sir Tonk posted:But did that story mention the most important part? Hail 
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Jul 27, 2015 13:47
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Hazo posted:I don't know if you're deliberately or accidentally misunderstanding me but just in case: I'm not referring to the stars and bars itself, but the idea brought up earlier that none of these flags are put there by the families but instead are deployed en masse by neo-Nazi groups routinely storming graveyards. If it's anything like how it was back in MS, it's just a bunch of old people going around thinking they're doing something nice and good. Back home we had people who would routinely decorate veteran grave sites all the time with American flags and Confederate flags for the really old graves.
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Jul 27, 2015 14:07
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Once again D&D liberals pick the stupidest loving hills to die on.
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Jul 27, 2015 14:31
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Hazo posted:I don't know if you're deliberately or accidentally misunderstanding me but just in case: I'm not referring to the stars and bars itself, but the idea brought up earlier that none of these flags are put there by the families but instead are deployed en masse by neo-Nazi groups routinely storming graveyards. Might not be as bad in the sense that a kick to the groin is not as bad as a gunshot to the groin, dude. It's still bad.
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Jul 27, 2015 15:17
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Tender Bender posted:Once again D&D liberals pick the stupidest loving hills to die on.  I think you are thinking of the morons that think their 150 year old flag has 'heritage'
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Jul 27, 2015 15:18
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Why do people bemoan liberals in this thread as if the alternative being you're a mouth breathing conservative?
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Jul 27, 2015 15:18
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Nonsense posted:Why do people bemoan liberals in this thread as if the alternative being you're a mouth breathing conservative? Because the word "liberal" has been used as an insult since at least the days of Supertramp's "Breakfast in America".
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Jul 27, 2015 15:27
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Gravel Gravy posted:Because the word "liberal" has been used as an insult since at least the days of Supertramp's "Breakfast in America". I just don't buy certain folks being socialists and then using liberal as a pejorative, and in the same instance mock people mocking racists. Yeah doesn't jive.
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Jul 27, 2015 15:32
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VitalSigns posted:I love this idea that somehow people in the South don't know we are racist. We know we are racist, people who are raised to adore the KKK flag and hate Lincoln know they are loving racist, infantilizing southernors is ridiculous. People alive today remember the lynchings, a massacre in a black church by a kid waving the Confederate flag just happened this summer. There are a ton of people in, say, the west suburbs of Detroit or in West Michigan (which is practically the south), that literally think that the Confederate flag is all about good Southern values that don't include slavery, as that was not what the war was about, nor what anyone was fighting for. Same for Ohio, etc. You can't underestimate the effect that a lack of detailed schooling on American history has - especially when it is extremely whitewashed or even changed. If you only have like one day of high school that mentions slavery, as compared to peers and news sources that constantly tell you that liberals are making stuff up and this is what really happened, you get a really skewed view of history and don't understand what you were doing. I can only see this being worse in completely red states in the South. Similarly, a lot of the "why are black people so poor and in ghettos when slavery ended 150 years ago" sentiment comes from ignorance. MOST people don't know anything about the widespread redlining that forced black people into ghettos, have never even thought about generational wealth and property ownership, and think of the civil rights struggle as strictly a deep southern thing that has nothing to do with cities like Chicago, Philly, and Detroit. It's not an either/or thing - there's a whole lot of ignorance that gets mixed into it as well.
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Jul 27, 2015 15:32
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Darko posted:There are a ton of people in, say, the west suburbs of Detroit or in West Michigan (which is practically the south), that literally think that the Confederate flag is all about good Southern values that don't include slavery, as that was not what the war was about, nor what anyone was fighting for. Same for Ohio, etc. You can't underestimate the effect that a lack of detailed schooling on American history has - especially when it is extremely whitewashed or even changed. If you only have like one day of high school that mentions slavery, as compared to peers and news sources that constantly tell you that liberals are making stuff up and this is what really happened, you get a really skewed view of history and don't understand what you were doing. I can only see this being worse in completely red states in the South. i have a feeling that the white trash in indiana and michigan waving the confederate flag aren't generally that fond of black people
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Jul 27, 2015 15:41
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icantfindaname posted:i have a feeling that the white trash in indiana and michigan waving the confederate flag aren't generally that fond of black people I know plenty that are, and are just ignorant of what it all means because they were raised in environments that misinformed them (and some of them have gradually changed their minds over time with enough education, when they've gotten it). I also know and see plenty that aren't. Waving a flag is not an either/or dichotomy.
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Jul 27, 2015 15:44
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Hazo posted:I mentioned this before but RWM figureheads are drumming up quite a bit of support and paranoia by threatening that liberals want to do exactly this, not just to Confederate soldiers but to anyone they don't like. So what?
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Jul 27, 2015 16:05
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Shbobdb posted:So what? Yeah they drum up "support and paranoia" constantly even if we all sit around doing literally nothing. It's impossible to prevent, and they'll believe the paranoia-spreaders no matter what - why not make it actually count?
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Jul 27, 2015 16:10
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Lots of Germans in Hitler's day were just happy that he had revived the economy and saved the nation face on the world stage. Why do the liberals have to be so harsh on them????  I'm sorry, there's no excuse for flying the battle flag. If all you're saying is there are lots of dumb racist people in America North and South then I agree, but I don't really get the point of defending them as just ignorant or whatever. Of course most bigotry stems from ignorance, that doesn't make it morally any different at all
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Jul 27, 2015 16:13
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Nonsense posted:I just don't buy certain folks being socialists and then using liberal as a pejorative, and in the same instance mock people mocking racists. Yeah doesn't jive. Leftists despise liberals and use the word in the pejorative when ever they can. It's because being a liberal is extremely loving cool and the loony left can't handle it.
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Jul 27, 2015 16:17
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icantfindaname posted:Lots of Germans in Hitler's day were just happy that he had revived the economy and saved the nation face on the world stage. Why do the liberals have to be so harsh on them???? You're conflating positions all over the place now. - In response to someone saying that everyone that has/flies a battle flag hates/is racist against/is bigoted against black people - it's provablethat this is not true, as a large percentage of them are misinformed or ignorant about what the flag actually means, or its cultural impact. Large portions of Americans are hugely culturally ignorant in general due to not having much experience outside of their own bubbles. Again, there are tons of degrees here, this is not an either/or dichotomy - this is not something that can be seen in absolutes. - The flag itself is a symbol of racism and bigotry. This is not complete common knowledge (many people have essentially been lied to about actual history their whole lives). So the solution is to make sure that it is common knowledge everywhere, so that everyone who is left that flies it -is- actually openly outing themselves on their bigotry, which makes it much easier to fight against and eventually make disappear (or, as much as the swastika has disappeared in America, at least). edited out errors/for clarity Darko fucked around with this message at 16:32 on Jul 27, 2015 |
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Jul 27, 2015 16:26
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Cross posted from Fried Chicken's USPol post earlier today to add fuel to the fire, because if you can't beat the apologists, you may as well keep them on the defensive:quote:This morning Obama compared oppression of women in Africa to the confederate flag, saying "just because something is a tradition doesn't make it right". In case you were wondering how he was tee-ing up the gender gap for Clinton
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Jul 27, 2015 16:29
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Shbobdb posted:So what? Nintendo Kid posted:Yeah they drum up "support and paranoia" constantly even if we all sit around doing literally nothing. It's impossible to prevent, and they'll believe the paranoia-spreaders no matter what - why not make it actually count? 
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Jul 27, 2015 16:38
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I visited Austin, TX recently and walked by the state capitol. On the grounds was this:  To me, this is far more offensive than the Confederate flag because there's absolutely no ambiguity about what it's saying. "Died for States' Rights Guaranteed Under the Constitution," "The North resorted to coercion," "the spirit of 1776," etc. Not a single word about slavery. And this is on the capitol grounds, meaning it's officially endorsed by the state. Yet somehow no one seems to care.
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Jul 27, 2015 16:39
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Nonsense posted:I just don't buy certain folks being socialists and then using liberal as a pejorative, and in the same instance mock people mocking racists. Yeah doesn't jive. "Liberal" has always a pejorative used by those who just think we need the right kind of angry mob to fix society, and only a wuss would think that needs to be a last resort or something. Many but not all of those people are conservatives. Shbobdb posted:So what? The many people who never thought hard about the Confederate flag until recently have been shifting pretty well toward seeing it for what it is, and the racist thrashing of the neoconfederates hasn't done them any favors. Sure, I'm all for the highest publicity, lowest arguably victim things like the woman that took the SC capitol flag down, but when people are literally running into cemeteries and taking stuff, it's sure not going to look very heroic or daring to anyone already invested. It makes a "both sides are jerks, I'm gonna stop paying attention" stance all the easier in this case. It doesn't help if, after all the fanciful neoconfederate rage about "next they're gonna come for our veterans' cemeteries!" being scoffed at as an irrational slippery slope argument, it becomes a visible thing. Sure, taking transient decorations off graves is the lowest possible end of desecration, but the optics are terrible and it's the type of protest which is about optics. In a time when fighting Confederate symbolism and racist connections is popular and gaining ground, there's no reason to fight outside the system unless it's a real easy PR win. On the other hand if you want to take direct action in protest ongoing concrete harm done by racism and/or right-wing terror, great, there are targets for that.
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Jul 27, 2015 16:39
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Jurgan, shrink those pics a bit, they're breaking tables. But yes, tons of people in this country are literally taught that the war wasn't about slavery and that it was against "Big Government." That's like if Germany had widespread Holocaust denial taught in 1/3 of the country on a government level. And that's the kind of misinformation that needs to be overridden. edit: ah, you fixed it.
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Jul 27, 2015 16:42
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See also Midwest and New England retirees that go to Cracker Barrel for authentic southern cooking.
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Jul 27, 2015 17:03
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Darko posted:Jurgan, shrink those pics a bit, they're breaking tables. I would say that, statistically, those same people are also going to hold racist views, in a nearly 1:1 overlap. In addition, how do you propose to override this misinformation? Is letting the Confederate Flag be placed as though it isn't a symbol of racism and hatred going to achieve that?
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Jul 27, 2015 17:06
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Jurgan posted:I visited Austin, TX recently and walked by the state capitol. On the grounds was this: Yeah I remember seeing this crap. It really needs to be replaced with a bronze statue of Stevie Ray Vaughan.
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Jul 27, 2015 17:07
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Jurgan posted:I visited Austin, TX recently and walked by the state capitol. On the grounds was this: There's also a statue of Davis on the UT campus to just rub it in. Of course there's also a confederate general statue on the A&M campus but he's actually relevant to the university.
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Jul 27, 2015 17:14
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Nonsense posted:Why do people bemoan liberals in this thread as if the alternative being you're a mouth breathing conservative? because we apparently loving suck source: the entire past 5-page stupid lovely flag derail
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Jul 27, 2015 17:18
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anime tupac posted:because we apparently loving suck I love that the flag derail keeps going because of the whining posts like this that contribute nothing to any other topic for discussion. It is the gift that keeps on giving. Jurgan posted:I visited Austin, TX recently and walked by the state capitol. On the grounds was this: Someone should put up a copy of the Confederate Constitution on that statue. Or the Texas article of secession, since I am pretty sure that explicitly mentioned slavery too.
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Jul 27, 2015 17:31
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Jurgan posted:I visited Austin, TX recently and walked by the state capitol. On the grounds was this: Never mind the flag, this is just straight up lies of omission. And regular lies.
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Jul 27, 2015 17:35
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Nonsense posted:Yeah I remember seeing this crap. It really needs to be replaced with a bronze statue of ftfy
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Jul 27, 2015 17:36
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StandardVC10 posted:Never mind the flag, this is just straight up lies of omission. And regular lies. Oh, its okay, considering what Texas Confederates did to those who didn't want to side with them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nueces_massacre CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Jul 27, 2015 |
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Jul 27, 2015 17:40
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Obdicut posted:I would say that, statistically, those same people are also going to hold racist views, in a nearly 1:1 overlap. In addition, how do you propose to override this misinformation? Is letting the Confederate Flag be placed as though it isn't a symbol of racism and hatred going to achieve that? We're already making moves towards illuminating the populace about the flag because we finally have a narrative that has grabbed people's attention enough to pay attention. It's similar to police reform, for many of the same reasons. Black people have been complaining about the police and the confederate flag for 60+ years (for more in the case of the police, really), and now it's in the public eye and people actually are paying attention. People that are able to be shifted are, if they're open to more information, and taking the flag out of political spaces (and possibly extending that to things like state monuments, etc. that venerate or lie about the Confederacy) helps to avoid even more misinformation for younger generations.
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Jul 27, 2015 18:01
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Yo http://www.dailydot.com/politics/planned-parenthood-hacked-anti-abortion-3301/ Late Sunday night, a group of hackers who oppose the healthcare nonprofit's abortion practices released Planned Parenthood's website databases as well as names and email addresses of the organization's employees. ... One of the hackers, who goes by the pseudonym “E,” told the Daily Dot that the cyberattack was politically motivated. “Trying to mold an atrocious monstrosity into socially acceptable behaviors is repulsive,” said E. “Obviously what [Planned Parenthood] does is a very ominous practice. It'll be interesting to see what surfaces when [Planned Parenthood] is stripped naked and exposed to the public.” ... The hackers involved say that they plan to decrypt and release internal Planned Parenthood emails “soon.” No emails have yet been released in the dump. (Editor's note: The Daily Dot is intentionally not linking to the hackers' website.) On the website featuring the database dump, the hackers gave some insight into their possible motivations. “We've noticed quite a lot of attention has been diverted to a supposedly malicious organization known as Planned Parenthood. The actions of this 'federation' are not seen as right in the eyes of the public. So here we are, the social justice warriors, seeking to reclaim some sort of lulz for the years and thousands of dollars that Planned Parenthood have wasted and made harvesting your babies.”
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Jul 27, 2015 18:35
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