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Panfilo posted:I think because of the victory at Tsushima the Japanese thought they could do a lot of damage to US fleets in night time torpedo attacks. The big difference was that 40 years had passed and technology followed. I wonder if the Japanese would have been so married to their night engagements if they knew what American radar capabilities were. Well it worked pretty well at Savo Island. Granted the US was totally unfamiliar with how to use their radar, and their intel was all hosed up, but the Japanese got the night battle they were looking for and did exactly what they hoped. I for one would kind of like to see secondary explosions from torpedo launcher destruction. It was a huge flaw in IJN cruiser designs. But I can understand why they don't have them.
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Jul 27, 2015 18:55
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Han Feizi posted:Well it worked pretty well at Savo Island. Granted the US was totally unfamiliar with how to use their radar, and their intel was all hosed up, but the Japanese got the night battle they were looking for and did exactly what they hoped. I for one would kind of like to see secondary explosions from torpedo launcher destruction. It was a huge flaw in IJN cruiser designs. But I can understand why they don't have them. My torpedoes get knocked out constantly so if those were detonations I'd have to stop playing IJN cruisers.
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Jul 27, 2015 18:57
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Night10194 posted:I've found the Clemson works well if you ambush people around islands and things, while killing other DDs with the double guns. It can also outgun a Tenryu in a straight boatfight. Unfortunately they have a lower concealment value than equivalent japanese destroyers because reasons, so getting close is trickier.  UberJew posted:Only American subs preferred to use deck guns (and even then, by 1944 when they started comprehensively destroying Japan's commercial shipping they had torpedoes that could actually explode when you wanted them to). American torpedoes were by far the worst in the war, the sheer size of the pacific ocean meant very little operational area was covered by land based aircraft, attrition rates among Japanese escort rates were astonishing and Japanese ASW capabilities were the worst of all the naval belligerents in the war and most especially the Japanese merchant marine never adopted convoys as a comprehensive strategy. Between how bad they were and the Bureau of Ordnance it's amazing that more subs weren't lost.  \/\/\/\/\/ edit: indeed. German torpedoes had some issues with the depth mechanism and the magnetic pistol, but when employed correctly they were pretty reliable. US Mk.14 not so much.
radintorov fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Jul 27, 2015 |
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Jul 27, 2015 18:57
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radintorov posted:I highly recommend to anyone interested to read about the Mark 14 torpedoes the US subs were saddled with in WW2. US Torpedoes in WWII were one of the most tragicomic weapons not built by Germany.
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Jul 27, 2015 18:58
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radintorov posted:I highly recommend to anyone interested to read about the Mark 14 torpedoes the US subs were saddled with in WW2. Japanese ASW equipment and doctrine was unbelievably, shockingly and ruinously bad. At least as bad as Mark 14 torpedoes, maybe even worse considering that it never got better and they just kept being incredibly incompetent until they had basically no tankers afloat at all.
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Jul 27, 2015 19:03
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UberJew posted:Japanese ASW equipment and doctrine was unbelievably, shockingly and ruinously bad. At least as bad as Mark 14 torpedoes, maybe even worse considering that it never got better and they just kept being incredibly incompetent until they had basically no tankers afloat at all. What did they do so wrong?
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Jul 27, 2015 19:04
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Night10194 posted:What did they do so wrong? The thing that immediately springs to mind is that until a US newspaper spilled the beans, they had only two depth settings on their depth charges. So the subs would just sit between those two.
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Jul 27, 2015 19:07
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radintorov posted:I highly recommend to anyone interested to read about the Mark 14 torpedoes the US subs were saddled with in WW2. I've been reading Grey Hunter's WitP LP the past week and it's just 
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Jul 27, 2015 19:16
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Night10194 posted:What did they do so wrong? Japanese escorts were not equipped with surface-search radar and their land based ASW aircraft did not start using them until 1945, so spotting surfaced subs was a purely visual matter. Escorts and ASW aircraft were usually unable to coordinate by radio (because Japanese radios were awful) and their ASW aircraft usually only flew with a single 250kg depth charge or two 60kg depth charges (whereas a PBY Catalina equipped for ASW could carry up to ~1,800kg of depth charges, and ASW B-17s even more). Their depth charges were also obsolescent with fuses that had only a few settings and couldn't be dialed to any depth. They had reasonably good sonar, but no ASW ships were equipped with equipment for measuring the ocean temperature, so they couldn't see the thermocline layer that dramatically impacts sonar effectiveness. They never developed rocket-propelled ASW weapons like the hedgehog, so still had to get right on top of a submarine to drop depth charges. In doctrine, they had an institutional tendency to assume that if they dropped depth charges and didn't hear the sub afterwards that they had killed the sub and just moved on as part of the IJN's general excess of optimism (also a contributing factor to their awful damage control methods, which helped the disaster at midway) rather than continuing to attack, so a lot of American subs got away when German or Japanese subs would be destroyed by their more persistent opponents. And of course, most absurdly and dramatically, the Japanese merchant marine never adopted convoys as a doctrine and only used them on an ad hoc basis. wdarkk posted:The thing that immediately springs to mind is that until a US newspaper spilled the beans, they had only two depth settings on their depth charges. So the subs would just sit between those two. They had five, approximately every 100 ft down to 500 ft.
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Jul 27, 2015 19:22
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I don't care much for carriers at this tier. But gently caress, I'm absolutely dismayed every time we lose a normal game where we have the numerical advantage, we're on the enemy cap, we're maybe even shooting the enemy carrier and he's on fire and about to sink... but the game draws out because even though we possibly earned every right we had to win, the timer ran out. gently caress chasing after carriers in normal game mode. This happens frequently too, not just occasionally! My draw rate is probably quite a few times higher than it is in WoT. Though I guess you could say that this isn't really a carrier problem, it's a game mode problem.
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Jul 27, 2015 19:23
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Death to standard game modeHazdoc posted:I'd be perfectly ok with them increasing the minimum range on ship launched torps, launches at that range anyways are virtually guaranteed against all but DDs anyways. So long as it meant an increase on plane dropped torps. Have I mentioned I hate CVs? Enough to willingly take a nerf to DDs just to see them nerfed as well.
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Jul 27, 2015 19:27
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orange juche posted:They used to have a niche, and then they nerfed small HE fires % and damage when 4.0 happened, due to people whining about US DDs keeping them on fire and being able to burn down their battleship/carrier/whatever. Now US DDs are kinda just unflavorful garbage. They're good for hunting other DDs but that's about it. Add that the Smoke nerf and the fact that now your propultion and rudder get knocked out even without direct hit.
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Jul 27, 2015 19:28
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Insert name here posted:Death to standard game mode At the same time, a bunch of torpedo bombers circling my pre-AA battleship and doing the war dance of the torpedo planes until I'm committed to a turn and they can hit my side is really annoying. Once you have some okay AA or cruisers backing you up that becomes way less of a thing, though, as all the bullets interrupt the elegant dance.
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Jul 27, 2015 19:28
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edit: nevermind, I'm stupid
TehKeen fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Jul 27, 2015 |
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Jul 27, 2015 19:32
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TehKeen posted:Hmm, anyone know what this 173mb patch is all about? Super testers get the Bismarck
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Jul 27, 2015 19:36
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That AP Shells Bad Advice cartoon thing has got to be a troll on the part of WG. Firing HE at an enemy Battleship is almost never a good idea when you're in a BB.
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Jul 27, 2015 19:37
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So how much of an apologist do I have to be to become a supertester, because free poo poo sounds nice.
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Jul 27, 2015 19:37
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Night10194 posted:That AP Shells Bad Advice cartoon thing has got to be a troll on the part of WG. Firing HE at an enemy Battleship is almost never a good idea when you're in a BB. Which is actually kinda funny considering how much damage the low caliber HE rounds do to BBs and that HE should be exponentially more effective as the caliber increases.
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Jul 27, 2015 19:38
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Gort posted:I kind of think that US DDs are lacking a niche somewhat. Japanese DDs have enough range on their torpedoes to pop smoke and shower an area in death from safety, while US DDs have to get right in close to use theirs, which limits their utility quite a lot. orange juche posted:They used to have a niche, and then they nerfed small HE fires % and damage when 4.0 happened, due to people whining about US DDs keeping them on fire and being able to burn down their battleship/carrier/whatever. Now US DDs are kinda just unflavorful garbage. They're good for hunting other DDs but that's about it. Naw, US DDs still got it. Maybe at the very highest tiers they start to encounter problems, but in low-mid CAs still have fairly thin armor and aren't laser accurate.  Replay US DDs excel at fighting lone cruisers not named the Cleveland, enemy DDs of all flavors, and BBs. BBs can hardly ever hit them if the DD chooses to properly juke, and they're especially frustrating if the DD commander is actually looking at his targets in zoom view and seeing where their guns are pointed before opening fire. Being aware of roughly how fast CA/BBs can shoot at you and angling yourself so you have your guns ready when they're reloading and that you're head on when they're firing is important. If you're extra baller you can try to aim your HE to knock out secondaries and make your approach safer. Also YAY I GOT REPLAYS WORKING NOW
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Jul 27, 2015 19:40
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One of the problems I have fighting off DDs in my BB is that I usually have AP loaded (since it wrecks the hell out of Cruisers and other BBs) and switching would take 30 seconds, while AP does very little to a DD even if you hit him because it just punches through. I'm at the points before BBs get insane secondaries, of course.
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Jul 27, 2015 19:43
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Night10194 posted:That AP Shells Bad Advice cartoon thing has got to be a troll on the part of WG. Firing HE at an enemy Battleship is almost never a good idea when you're in a BB. At least it's an entertaining one.
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Jul 27, 2015 19:47
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Panfilo posted:If they nerfed air dropped torpedoes then they should buff dive bombers. It seems weird that I can get 4 torpedo hits and 7 bomb hits and yet the bomb hits and fire damage combined is still 25% of the torpedo damage. I once saw a stick of dive bombers take a poo poo on my Kuma. Knocked out a torpedo launcher for five seconds and did zero damage to the hull. 
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Jul 27, 2015 19:47
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Out of curiosity, is anyone able to auth people for the boats TS server? I'm gonna finally do the smart thing and try to play with goons (albeit without a mic until I can get to the store  )
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Jul 27, 2015 19:48
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Hazdoc posted:Naw, US DDs still got it. Maybe at the very highest tiers they start to encounter problems, but in low-mid CAs still have fairly thin armor and aren't laser accurate. It's not so bad at high tiers because the Fletcher and Gearing both get really good torpedoes.
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Jul 27, 2015 20:19
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El Disco posted:It's not so bad at high tiers because the Fletcher and Gearing both get really good torpedoes. Looking ahead at the stats, Gearing gets a nice gun layout with three twin 5/38s and great torpedoes in 5x mounts. Though sadly even the Hearing's AA is still mediocre.
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Jul 27, 2015 21:00
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Warbadger posted:Which is actually kinda funny considering how much damage the low caliber HE rounds do to BBs and that HE should be exponentially more effective as the caliber increases. it's awkward because it's not as if breaking modules and setting other battleships on fire isn't useful, it's more that if you can't hit citadels consistently with AP your damage output is garbage regardless.
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Jul 27, 2015 21:04
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TehKeen posted:Out of curiosity, is anyone able to auth people for the boats TS server? I'm gonna finally do the smart thing and try to play with goons (albeit without a mic until I can get to the store Any goon on the server can give the server auth and channel auth. Any guys anyone can do this. If you see someone in the top channel with the MLP icon please go up there, take a second to ask them the secret question and whether they know the goon handshake and you can give them perms please. I made it easy so everyone can do this and not require a server admin just be sure you do it at the top channel and not drag them down to your channel else it won't work.
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Jul 27, 2015 21:05
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El Disco posted:It's not so bad at high tiers because the Fletcher and Gearing both get really good torpedoes. Having just got to the abomination that is the Mutsuki and promptly lost all my enthusiasm for IJN DDs, it seems like US DDs start getting good as the IJN ones drop off. Unfortunately there's some real duffers you have to get through to arrive their. Also, does anyone know roughly how long until the next nation, whatever that might be, is released? Are we looking at months or years? I remember in WoT it took ages, but WoT had a year long "closed" beta, and maybe this time round they have the resources to make it happen much faster.
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Jul 27, 2015 21:12
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Stupid question: Should the St. Louis fire AP all the time?
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Jul 27, 2015 21:15
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So I was playing on Ocean today, I spot either a Mogami or a Myoko moving in a straight line 17 kilometers out, he seems pretty flat to me, I let go of a salvo not really thinking that I'll actually hit him at that range, since he has plenty of time to move. To my surprise, I hit the guy's citadel. Sweet, I thought. Fifteen seconds later, my guns are reloaded and I let go of another one, same guy, same distance. I citadel him again. Then this starts.   I see that this guy is actually serious about being citadeled twice, so I try to offer some advice for him. You know, no harmful intent or anything. (I actually intended to say direction instead of speed but whatever, slowing down at large distances can work just as well)  He was actually not content with this.  Since he was dropping the colorful adjectives I decide, what the hell, I'll drop one too. I'm still trying to reach through to this guy.  And at that point, I was just stupefied. He didn't say anything else, even his team was against him. He actually contacts me after the battle is over, and I make another attempt to reason with him.  No response. You'd think that playing up to tier seven or eight on a cruiser line would train you to dodge slow-moving battleship slugs, but no, no. It's all RNG-based, apparently. OSad fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Jul 27, 2015 |
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Jul 27, 2015 21:16
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Wade Wilson posted:Stupid question: Should the St. Louis fire AP all the time? Except at DDs, because you can't citadel DDs ever (they don't have them). HE will cripple them.
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Jul 27, 2015 21:16
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Wade Wilson posted:Stupid question: Should the St. Louis fire AP all the time? You can easily pen all cruisers you will engage except other St. Louis's. For BB loads HE and aim at the superstructure. Keep in mind that you basically cannot be citadeled by anything but battleships. However, a Kuma for example that unloads AP right into your side will still do up to 4000 damage every salvo.
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Jul 27, 2015 21:30
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Michaellaneous posted:You can easily pen all cruisers you will engage except other St. Louis's. For BB loads HE and aim at the superstructure. Even this is difficult to do, for some reason. I've citadeled St. Louises with a BB, but it only seems to happen between like 7 and 10 km. I think the St. Louis is why I initially hated the Phoenix so much. It kinda teaches you to play a Cruiser like a mini-battleship, and it does not prepare you for how weak the citadel armor on cruisers is. Once you get past the St. Louis and figure out that you need to angle yourself and avoid exposing your precious broadside, Cruisers are way more fun.
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Jul 27, 2015 21:32
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I was reading up on some fun facts regarding ASW thanks to some mentions of it in this thread and I'm glad to have learned Congress has pretty much always been full of gently caress ups: The deficiencies of Japanese depth-charge tactics were revealed in a press conference held by U.S. Congressman Andrew J. May, a member of the House Military Affairs Committee who had visited the Pacific theater and received many intelligence and operational briefings. May mentioned the highly sensitive fact that American submarines had a high survivability rate because Japanese depth charges were fuzed to explode at too shallow a depth. Soon, Japanese forces were resetting their depth charges to explode at a more effective average depth of 75 m (250 feet), to the detriment of American submariners. Vice Admiral Charles A. Lockwood, commander of the U.S. submarine fleet in the Pacific, later estimated that May's revelation cost the United States Navy as many as ten submarines and 800 seamen killed in action.[16] 
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Jul 27, 2015 21:35
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One other big thing for the St. Louis is that switching ammos is really easy in a cruiser. Starting off with HE at long range when you're not confident you can hit specific bits and then swapping to AP once you have the lead down or they're on fire is a snap with cruisers, unlike with BBs.
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Jul 27, 2015 21:39
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Wade Wilson posted:Stupid question: Should the St. Louis fire AP all the time? There's no proper answer here. AP and HE both accomplish things (dead ships) differently and in different situations. Things like what ship you're shooting at, its distance and direction it's facing, etc. Play around and see how each shell type performs. It's not too difficult to master.
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Jul 27, 2015 21:41
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St. Louis citadels other STLs pretty consistently at around 3km. I would've won a duel against an HE slinging full health one while I was at half health but the timer ran out and we drew one salvo away~
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Jul 27, 2015 21:42
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I'm not entirely conviced the st. louis actually has a citadel. gently caress that thing.
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Jul 27, 2015 21:44
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yaay posted:I'm not entirely conviced the st. louis actually has a citadel. gently caress that thing. It has a secondary armor belt protecting the citadel. It's a sturdy little rear end in a top hat. Even with 203mms, it took me getting to 6 KM to start citadeling one in a Furutaka.
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Jul 27, 2015 21:48
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Read the OP. Thinking of picking up this game. Do we have a strong NA presence? Anything I need to know when I'm going in? Anything like don't pick arty as your first tree in WoT or anything like that?
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