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Tea.EarlGrey.Hot. posted:Can we just amend it so people can't talk about themselves? Half the time the BWM stories are "I USED to be BWM but now I'm super good with my money!! This has my vote
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Jul 28, 2015 05:03
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" which is a humblebrag, or it's "plz help I suck at money!!" in which case they should make their own thread instead of derailing my schadenfreude.
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Solenna posted:hah I mentioned all the stuff that wasn't directly food spending so I wouldn't sound like a complete moron. figures. Wait, that's a thing? You're paying 20 for an old lovely towel? I have some old lovely towels you can have. $14.95
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Jul 28, 2015 05:04
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Tea.EarlGrey.Hot. posted:Can we just amend it so people can't talk about themselves? Half the time the BWM stories are "I USED to be BWM but now I'm super good with my money!! This is a good suggestion. No rules if it's funny.
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Jul 28, 2015 05:04
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Tea.EarlGrey.Hot. posted:Can we just amend it so people can't talk about themselves? Half the time the BWM stories are "I USED to be BWM but now I'm super good with my money!! The link to the thread should just redirect to r/personalfinance Every post that isn't like one you described is just a copy paste from there anyway. Example 1: Questions about a Pyramid Scheme... posted:First off, if someone would be so kind, could someone give me an ELI5 of what one is? I've got a general idea but just to be sure. EDIT: Example 2! ""Advice Please. Wife wants to payoff Sallie Mae loans using multiple interest free credit card offers. posted:I currently have a Sallie Mae (Navient) private loan balance of just under $16,000. Currently I am paying just over $200 a month which approximately $175 goes towards interest and almost nothing towards my principle. I could afford to pay a little more (maybe $400 a month) but with a 14.25% interest rate, I feel like I'm being robbed every month. Rudager fucked around with this message at 05:45 on Jul 28, 2015 |
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Jul 28, 2015 05:43
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Tea.EarlGrey.Hot. posted:Can we just amend it so people can't talk about themselves? Half the time the BWM stories are "I USED to be BWM but now I'm super good with my money!! This would get my vote too.
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Jul 28, 2015 05:44
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Rudager posted:EDIT: Example 2! You can't do that, right? Would otherwise seem like a good way to get that pesky non-discharable-in-bankruptcy debt dischargeable. I guess you couldn't really make much of a dent in the really apocalyptic student debt you'd want to try such a scorched-earth policy on though...
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Jul 28, 2015 06:33
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Pompous Rhombus posted:You can't do that, right? Would otherwise seem like a good way to get that pesky non-discharable-in-bankruptcy debt dischargeable. I guess you couldn't really make much of a dent in the really apocalyptic student debt you'd want to try such a scorched-earth policy on though... I think it;s a good idea if you could pull it off. Even if you can get a single credit card with 0% for at least 12 months then that would help a lot.
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Jul 28, 2015 07:41
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Suspicious Lump posted:No idea about USA but in Australia some credit cards will specifically say 0% for a specific time period on transfers. So it is possible. That's for balance transfer's from another existing credit card, you can't pay off an bank loan with one.
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Jul 28, 2015 07:45
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Pompous Rhombus posted:You can't do that, right? Would otherwise seem like a good way to get that pesky non-discharable-in-bankruptcy debt dischargeable. I guess you couldn't really make much of a dent in the really apocalyptic student debt you'd want to try such a scorched-earth policy on though... Yeah that's illegal. What might not be too stupid is finding some cards with low introductory rates on purchases and charging normal and necessary purchases to them and putting the money you would have used on those things towards the loan. It's the same idea, trading high interest non-dischargable debt for low interest debt on a CC during its introductory period that, in worst case, can get discharged. They'd also be free to balance transfer that debt to another card. It's not a great situation for them to be in. If they gently caress it up and can't pay off the new card or have trouble getting new cards later they'll ending up trading a high interest loan for a higher interest credit card balance. Worth a shot if they can avoid spending extra money just because they have CC spending room to burn.
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Jul 28, 2015 08:42
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Desuwa posted:Yeah that's illegal. What might not be too stupid is finding some cards with low introductory rates on purchases and charging normal and necessary purchases to them and putting the money you would have used on those things towards the loan. It's the same idea, trading high interest non-dischargable debt for low interest debt on a CC during its introductory period that, in worst case, can get discharged. They'd also be free to balance transfer that debt to another card. You'd quite likely not get a discharge in a situation like this. Ch7 isn't a guarantee.
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Jul 28, 2015 13:21
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Most "0% w. interest balance transfers" have a 2-6% of the balance "transfer fee" right off the bat so its kinda dumb for that reason too.
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Jul 28, 2015 13:35
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FormatAmerica posted:Most "0% w. interest balance transfers" have a 2-6% of the balance "transfer fee" right off the bat so its kinda dumb for that reason too. Depends. If you're paying 14% right now and you can get 0% for 18-24 months with a 3% fee, you're still coming out WAY ahead. I just got a new Citi card with 0% and a 3% transfer fee. You won't get cash back, but you will lower your effective interest rate.
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Jul 28, 2015 13:39
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I don't think a balance transfer fee would apply in that situation, would it? And I think it's legal to use a cc to pay your student loans. My dad lent me some Suze Orman dvd about student loans and she said that while in 99% of the cases it's a horrible idea, there are a few situations where it wouldn't be bad, such as having no debt other than student loans, and having a 0% rate for a certain period of time and aggressively paying it off. The dvd is from around 2012 so maybe things have changed since then? Also, holy poo poo, almost 15% on a student loan?!
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Jul 28, 2015 13:53
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School funding is terrible now. My loans 10 years ago were at 7% and that was with parents co-signing with an 800+ credit rating. At least I only took out like 6k in loans.
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Jul 28, 2015 13:56
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Isn't the government starting to get stricter on student loans? I know places like the University of Phoenix have seen their enrollment cut by half and of course there were those Corinthian colleges (emphasis on were). Even if new rules are not yet in place, the threat of change is going to impact the market. Tighten the supply and interest rates are going to rise.
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Jul 28, 2015 14:32
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Krispy Kareem posted:Isn't the government starting to get stricter on student loans? I know places like the University of Phoenix have seen their enrollment cut by half and of course there were those Corinthian colleges (emphasis on were). Even if new rules are not yet in place, the threat of change is going to impact the market. Cutting supply of loans to lovely for-profits and lowering costs of community colleges is likely to really, really, really lower the overall average student debt burden, whatever interest rates are.
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Jul 28, 2015 14:41
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Not giving out loans for art degrees would help a lot too. Not saying don't go to art school (though I wouldn't), but with the average salaries graduates get, letting them graduate with a bunch of loan debt is criminal. If they had to pay for it themselves, maybe those schools wouldn't charge so much (why the gently caress do they cost so much anyway?). Nail Rat fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Jul 28, 2015 |
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Jul 28, 2015 15:17
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berzerker posted:Cutting supply of loans to lovely for-profits and lowering costs of community colleges is likely to really, really, really lower the overall average student debt burden, whatever interest rates are. Oh sure. Without a doubt. The Great Recession + a bunch of people going back to school + cheap student loan money = clusterfuck. It was worse with for-profit colleges because, well they're lovely - but plenty of students going to not-for-profit-but-gently caress-yeah-endowments schools got hosed over as well. Getting rid of that flood of cheap student loan money helps in the long run by slowing tuition growth. But it's also going to limit the number of students who have access to loans. Cue bipartisan legislation in another 10 years called 'Reach for the Stars!' which deregulates student loan restrictions so that everyone has the chance to get the education they deserve. Enthusiastically endorsed by colleges, both for-profit and public. Nail Rat posted:If they had to pay for it themselves, maybe those schools wouldn't charge so much (why the gently caress do they cost so much anyway?). Because the only way to make money with an art degree is to teach art.
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Jul 28, 2015 15:43
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Krispy Kareem posted:Getting rid of that flood of cheap student loan money helps in the long run by slowing tuition growth. But it's also going to limit the number of students who have access to loans. Tuition increases have very little to do with loan interest rates and everything to do with gutted state support for higher education at the same time more people than ever are going to college. Excluding the cancerous for-profits, universities aren't trying to maximize the money they get from students. They're facing an issue that education doesn't have many efficiencies of scale, so 2x as many students probably means at least 1.8x as many classes=>teachers=>staff=>classrooms. Meanwhile, the money they used to use to provide this public good has disappeared over the same few decades. Those costs don't go away if students loans disappeared entirely tomorrow. The only way reduced or more expensive student loans lowers tuition is by keeping people from going to college, even though statistically those who get a bachelor's degree are still better off (yes, even with an art history degree) than those who don't. Similarly, the only way to lower tuition is to fund universities like the public goods they are, which is to say with tax dollars.
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Jul 28, 2015 15:56
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Nail Rat posted:(why the gently caress do they cost so much anyway?). The real answer, i.e. the one frothing liberal goons hate, is that well-intended politicians tried to make college more affordable by providing an endless well of taxpayer-backed money. Colleges, not being as stupid as politicians, realized that this was a massive windfall waiting to happen. They raised their tuition as fast as they could to get the biggest possible slice of government cheese. And the most profitable way to do that is to push a bunch of starry-eyed idiots who have been told to "follow your dreams" through liberal arts programs that cost the school very little beyond a classroom and a failed writer to teach in it. Enroll as many people as possible, and gently caress the outcomes because our endowment will be huge!
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Jul 28, 2015 16:19
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berzerker posted:Tuition increases have very little to do with loan interest rates and everything to do with gutted state support for higher education at the same time more people than ever are going to college. Excluding the cancerous for-profits, universities aren't trying to maximize the money they get from students. They're facing an issue that education doesn't have many efficiencies of scale, so 2x as many students probably means at least 1.8x as many classes=>teachers=>staff=>classrooms. Meanwhile, the money they used to use to provide this public good has disappeared over the same few decades. Those costs don't go away if students loans disappeared entirely tomorrow. I'm not sure I agree with that. Maybe it manifests itself in different ways, but public and private schools have increased their tuition as demand has increased, so it would make sense that decreasing demand would lower tuition. I realize there are fixed costs, but I'm concerned with all the new costs schools incur in their quest for more students. My alma mater has spent God knows how much over the last five years for it's 11-46 NCAA football team, all in the pursuit of students. And now they're going to build a dedicated stadium rather than borrowing space. If they knew their future budgets were not going to increase at the same rate, they'd be less inclined to add new fixed expenses.
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Jul 28, 2015 16:27
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Krispy Kareem posted:Because the only way to make money with an art degree is to teach art. Or pair the degree with some coding and the student transforms from a $20k salary graphic designer into a $120k UI designer.
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Jul 28, 2015 16:38
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High Lord Elbow posted:The real answer, i.e. the one frothing liberal goons hate, is that well-intended politicians tried to make college more affordable by providing an endless well of taxpayer-backed money. Colleges, not being as stupid as politicians, realized that this was a massive windfall waiting to happen. They raised their tuition as fast as they could to get the biggest possible slice of government cheese. And the most profitable way to do that is to push a bunch of starry-eyed idiots who have been told to "follow your dreams" through liberal arts programs that cost the school very little beyond a classroom and a failed writer to teach in it. Never mind the tax and service cuts that gutted public universities, or that many state schools' budgets remained flat as they went through years of double-digit percentage tuition increases. It must be the fault of an evil cadre of art history professors. No doubt they'll blow up their endowment, though. Even though there won't be anybody to donate money, they'll make it up on volume.
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Jul 28, 2015 16:47
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Up to our elbows in bullshit again? http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...vEX5U_blog.html
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Jul 28, 2015 17:12
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e: deleting dumb d&d poo poo
Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Jul 28, 2015 |
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Jul 28, 2015 17:14
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GAYS FOR DAYS posted:Also, holy poo poo, almost 15% on a student loan?! That's the worst I've ever heard of for a student loan. I've got ~ 15k @ 3.25%, and then like 40k @ 6.5%, and I consider the 6.5% to be terrible and wish I could have it lower. But 15%?! Good lord, I have a better rate on two of my credit cards. Which reminds me of my good friend who is classic BWM. He's in an ok spot now, but only because his wife of almost three years (and ~6 years total of being together) is very, VERY Good With Money. You kind of have to be to be an auditor for one of the Big Four. But back before they met, we were living together and his crummy car was always falling apart, so he decided to try and be GWM and get a used car instead of putting in a couple hundred nearly every month to his poo poo-box. It would have made sense to get something low-key. Reliable and cheap. He got a ~6 year old Honda Prelude (this was in the mid 2000's, so it was one of the last model years, so that probably made it more expensive) at 19% APR. Less than a month later one of our housemates borrowed his car and rear-ended an SUV. Her insurance actually covered everything, but it was out of commission for over two weeks, so that was half a month's worth of payments and insurance that was essentially for nothing.
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Jul 28, 2015 18:10
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DrBouvenstein posted:That's the worst I've ever heard of for a student loan. Lolololololololol if you want to bring car-related bad with money into the thread you gotta try harder than that. Sure 19% is awful but oh man. The prelude is beyond a reasonable car, it just happens to look cool. Dude even had insurance...
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Jul 29, 2015 03:40
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My cousin is bwm. about 3-4 years ago I drove 90 minutes to his apartment and helped him replace his spark plugs on his ford expedition, which was bought at a shady bad credit lot. I got half of the job done before my back was done for the day. I left him all the tools and headed home. Rather than finish fixing it, he called the dealer a week later and told them to repo it. I'm sure it was good for the dealer cause they could easily claim it had almost no value and fixed it for very little.
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Jul 29, 2015 04:18
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Little bit of foundation on this one. Some people build up big balances of frequent flyer miles by signing up for several credit cards with high bonuses. Of this group, a portion engage in "Manufactured Spending", a variety of techniques that allow for free or nearly free points accumulation by going through a purchase-reimbursement cycle. For example, someone might buy a Visa gift card with their American Airlines credit card to earn AA miles, then find a way to liquidate the gift card and recoup 99-100% of the cash. There are lots of techniques for this, ranging in difficulty and risk. One of the riskiest methods is to use gift cards to purchase money orders to yourself, because banks notice this pattern and investigate it for money laundering. Basically you should just be avoiding money orders. That said, let's meet our newest BWM contestant: quote:Went to a Walmart to get a $1k Money Order like I usually do and the Point of Sale said "alternate form of payment required" figured it was a fluke, and went to Fred Meyer to try my luck and got one Money Order. When I tried for a second one the register told the Customer Service Representative to check my Driver's License and the card. I handed her the Visa Gift Card and she said that I can't use gift card for Money Order. Figured I try another Fred Meyer, but the first one probably called all the stores nearby and told them the story because when I went in I was greeted with "wait....are you the guy that was at the other Fred Meyer just now? Sorry, we don't take gift cards". Bummer! This guy's stuck hanging onto $500-$1,000 in gift cards that he now has to spend normally. Kind of pain in the rear, but not a huge deal. Wait though, what's this? quote:A friend of mine working at a Fred Meyer in Seattle just texted me and yep, they did receive a call about you. quote:Is this in or near Seattle? I work at a Safeway in Seattle and we got a notice from corporate about a guy trying to launder money by buying $1000 money orders with vanilla gcs. Told to stall the individual and call the police if its attempted. quote:This wasn't in washington was it? My friend works for the investigative branch of Washington State Patrol and they just received a notice of potential money laundering activity reported at a Fred Meyer. 
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Jul 29, 2015 05:29
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If credit card companies want to close off manufactured spending they could just report it as money laundering and have the police investigate. Although you did miss one of the great comments. quote:OP they're onto you. I will have a Gulfstream at your nearest airport. Arrive alone, bringing only the clothes on your back and 3 million AA miles (or 1 billion Delta miles). We will go and you can start a new life in Guatemala.
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Jul 29, 2015 06:23
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Nail Rat posted:Not giving out loans for art degrees would help a lot too. You can't put a price on dreams!  On a more serious note, the very idea of having to pay for an education is absolutely barbaric to me. In my country public universities are free, private ones are paid - but public ones are widely considered much better, with some exceptions. Private ones may be better in narrow specialisations, but they have a lot less prestige than public ones. Admittedly the wages are much lower, but there is no debt burden, at least. Education is considered both a right and a necessity. I can't imagine how crushing life would be if I had student debt, especially if there was interest on it. Admittedly, it is actually largely offset (if you get a middle class job, if you're unemployed or fast food level then I guess you're hosed) by the high wages and much lower cost of goods and services and lower tax rates, but it must be an incredible psychological burden even in the cases where it ends up evening out. How do you guys cope? Is it simply so internalised in the culture that there isn't much psychological burden, because "that's just how it is"? I'm genuinely fascinated by the psychology of this. Zeppelin Insanity fucked around with this message at 12:06 on Jul 29, 2015 |
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Jul 29, 2015 11:59
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In my college social circle (U.S. engineering students a decade ago), it was generally seen as an investment in yourself - put in some money now, get back a lot more money in salary later.
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Jul 29, 2015 13:28
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Zeppelin Insanity posted:You can't put a price on dreams! Like the other guy said, it's seen as an investment. And it's really not THAT expensive depending on how you handle it. We hear about all the horror stories, but I think I read that fully half of people graduate with no debt at all and the other half's average debt load is about 20k. In my state the lottery funds free tuition and fees at any public school as long as you maintain a B. You can get free vocational training with a C average. Student debt is in the news so much now because a lot of people went back to school during the Great Recession to make that 'investment' and some got hosed. For-profit schools can be hit or miss. I got my Masters at one, and while I got a good enough education to get my necessary licenses and certifications, there were classmates who had no business being enrolled and who got drained of a lot of money. You don't hear about the people who went to a state school and got a business degree and graduated with a minimum of debt. You hear about people who spent 30k to attend videah game school or 100k for an art history degree.
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Jul 29, 2015 14:19
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Zeppelin Insanity posted:You can't put a price on dreams! I've coped by pushing back my goals for a few years while I overpay my student loans. Some people just resign themselves to having to pay $X/month for the next 10/25/30 years. Some people just give up and go into default.
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Jul 29, 2015 14:19
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Zeppelin Insanity posted:You can't put a price on dreams! On what basis do you consider education, I'm assuming higher education based on the context, a right? I'd say that a basic education, through high school or the equivalent, is considered a right and a requirement among first world countries but the same doesn't apply to higher education. As far as I'm aware, most if not all countries that offer free higher education do so on a limited basis based on various criteria which normally includes a test or your grades from high school. I think this makes sense as higher education isn't necessary to perform for all jobs and given the time and expense if it's not necessary should at least not be subsidized. I think one the largest issues with the US system is that it's not bad if you have a plan and are able to follow through with it, but if you either fall through the cracks or you go in without a plan, and the person is eighteenish so this isn't exactly unexpected, you end up with a bunch of debt and very little to show for it. I can't really speak to life with student debt, but I think like with most things people just adapt to the situation. If the loans are not private then they can be deferred in various situations and there are various repayment options based on income.
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Jul 29, 2015 14:20
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Zeppelin Insanity posted:
P.D.B. Fishsticks posted:In my college social circle (U.S. engineering students a decade ago), it was generally seen as an investment in yourself - put in some money now, get back a lot more money in salary later. This, essentially. Also, it helps that I was able to get a job right out of school and can afford to pay all my bills, live on my own, save some money, and pay extra towards my student loans every month. I'm sure my mindset would be different if that were not the case. I have plenty of friends my age who have struggles with their student loans and it seems to be really stressful for them.
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Jul 29, 2015 14:32
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The only people I know who left our school with a ton of debt were the ones who borrowed more to live in the nicest dorms on campus, then the most expensive off campus student housing. Add in some loans to study abroad and that's how you make a reasonable state school education expensive. I lived in dumps and had a part time job so student loans weren't paying for me to get shitfaced.
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Jul 29, 2015 14:38
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pig slut lisa posted:Little bit of foundation on this one. Some people build up big balances of frequent flyer miles by signing up for several credit cards with high bonuses. Of this group, a portion engage in "Manufactured Spending", a variety of techniques that allow for free or nearly free points accumulation by going through a purchase-reimbursement cycle. For example, someone might buy a Visa gift card with their American Airlines credit card to earn AA miles, then find a way to liquidate the gift card and recoup 99-100% of the cash. There are lots of techniques for this, ranging in difficulty and risk. One of the riskiest methods is to use gift cards to purchase money orders to yourself, because banks notice this pattern and investigate it for money laundering. Basically you should just be avoiding money orders. I'm going on two trips in the next two months paid for by my AA credit card. Most from the sign up bonus, some from my own paid travel, and a little more from funneling points into AA through hotel transfers. I have never bothered with Manufactured Spend though.
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Jul 29, 2015 14:42
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Yeah I thought about it once but all that manufactured spend stuff seemed like it had so many ways to go terribly wrong.
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Jul 29, 2015 14:46
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Student loans haven't mattered since 2007 when ibr, and later paye, came into existence. As long as private loans are avoided you're better off maxing out public ones like gradplus and stafford. I know dozens of people with 200k+ in loans and a few at 300+, and they pay less than me per month due to ibr/paye.
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Jul 29, 2015 14:51
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