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goodness posted:Getting out of the Western society way of thinking is the exact experience that I have had with them. The first time it felt like the weight and constraint of society was erased from my body and I could start fresh with a new look on the world and how it is all connected. And that eventually led me to look into all this. This runs a bit afield of Buddhism, and the quality of posts and threads is hit or miss, but given your interests, I might suggest the following as a forum that may be of interest to you, and where some of the posters may have a similar perspective: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/postlist.php/Board/82
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Jul 29, 2015 00:52
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Sheikh Djibouti posted:This runs a bit afield of Buddhism, and the quality of posts and threads is hit or miss, but given your interests, I might suggest the following as a forum that may be of interest to you, and where some of the posters may have a similar perspective: I'll check that out! After reading a little about the basics of Buddhism I can see that the Noble Eightfold Path really aligns with what I am working toward already. The Right View especially resonated with me. I have a lot to learn but the path is right.
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Jul 29, 2015 04:19
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What I had read in my own occult stuff is that  can produce consciousness changes which can be powerful but are in large part temporary. Doing an acid trip to rinse out your preconceptions is one thing, requiring LSD to feel like you've meditated is a form of intoxication. Some people (Crowley) see zero problem with intoxication but it does seem like it goes against the Buddhist grain.
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Jul 29, 2015 04:32
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Drug trips are gimmicks of the mind hth
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Jul 29, 2015 04:36
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Tautologicus posted:Drug trips are gimmicks of the mind hth You are a follower of Buddhism and reincarnation/mystical beliefs of it right? Is it a stretch to entertain that mushrooms or LSD could increase your senses and let you feel that attachment to the universe more? I don't think it is that different really. I am not saying that continual use of them is good or required to continue this attitude. The first time I did it was 5 years ago and I have felt that connection to the the universe ever since. It is what led me to looking into Buddhism although I have been a stout disbeliever for the last 14 years. I never realized seemingly simple teachings could make me feel the way I do reading about Buddhism. It's familiar and validates what I have been trying to teach myself. goodness fucked around with this message at 04:46 on Jul 29, 2015 |
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Jul 29, 2015 04:41
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Tautologicus posted:Drug trips are gimmicks of the mind hth I have to agree. If an experience under the influence of a hallucinogen brought you to Buddhism, that is great, but they are not the path, and they only serve to add a layer of delusion that you'll eventually need to wade through.
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Jul 29, 2015 05:29
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Prickly Pete posted:I have to agree. If an experience under the influence of a hallucinogen brought you to Buddhism, that is great, but they are not the path, and they only serve to add a layer of delusion that you'll eventually need to wade through. In my experience it lead me to seeing that all life should be respected, positive or negative actions/attitudes do influence what happens to you. Helping yourself to enable yourself to help the world around you is good. If these concepts are an illusion that would suck. You are right it is not a way to stay on the path. But a useful tool to escape the traditions of western culture we are raised with. Helpful for me at least. Once you open the door it is open. goodness fucked around with this message at 05:58 on Jul 29, 2015 |
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Jul 29, 2015 05:52
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I slipped on a banana peel and fell and crushed a fortune cookie and inside it said "Be nice to people". Banana peels have power lol
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Jul 29, 2015 05:54
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goodness posted:In my experience it lead me to seeing that all life should be respected, positive or negative actions/attitudes do influence what happens to you. Helping yourself to enable yourself to help the world around you is good. If these concepts are an illusion that would suck. The concepts aren't an illusion. The means of reaching them is the issue. You dont have to twist your brain with hallucinogens to continue. Just sit and watch the breath and try to understand impermanence and so on. Edit: I don't think we are really disagreeing after reading your post again. I got to buddhism through combinations of crushing depression and addiction among other things, so whatever gets you started is good. Just don't keep carrying the raft once you cross the river. People Stew fucked around with this message at 06:03 on Jul 29, 2015 |
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Jul 29, 2015 06:00
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Prickly Pete posted:The concepts aren't an illusion. The means of reaching them is the issue. You dont have to twist your brain with hallucinogens to continue. Just sit and watch the breath and try to understand impermanence and so on. Trust me, I wish I had come to those conclusions a lot sooner in life. What do you think of many older cultures using psychedelics for personal/spiritual exploration? Could it be your own bias as a Westerner is causing you to reject them?
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Jul 29, 2015 06:06
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Ruddha posted:I slipped on a banana peel and fell and crushed a fortune cookie and inside it said "Be nice to people". Banana peels have power lol Your metaphor fails because magic mushrooms are more like fortune cookies than they are banana peels.
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Jul 29, 2015 06:12
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goodness posted:Trust me, I wish I had come to those conclusions a lot sooner in life. I've used a lot of psychedelics for personal and spiritual exploration, so my biases are not what you probably think. I understand the established history of indigenous shamanic use of these substances. Those people were not Buddhists. I don't think they were wrong, but it isn't a lasting path that leads to the end of suffering. I think they can be valuable to a limited extent, but I think, as a Buddhist, that they are eventually an attachment and a distraction like most other intoxicants, and ultimately a crutch. The effects are generally temporary aside from general feelings that may carry over into sobriety. Bad things can also happen under the influence of psychedelics. Anyone who has spent time doing them knows how quickly things can go south when things aren't just right. None of that is necessary. You can easily reach those conclusions, with lasting results, just sitting and watching the breath.
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Jul 29, 2015 06:13
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Frykte posted:Your metaphor fails because magic mushrooms are more like fortune cookies than they are banana peels. Tell me how that works out the next time someone has a psychotic episode on one of those fortune cookies.
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Jul 29, 2015 06:14
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Prickly Pete posted:Tell me how that works out the next time someone has a psychotic episode on one of those fortune cookies. Have you ever seen the movie Freaky Friday starring Lindsay Lohan?
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Jul 29, 2015 06:17
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Frykte posted:Have you ever seen the movie Freaky Friday starring Lindsay Lohan? I haven't sorry. I'm sure it is really good though.
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Jul 29, 2015 06:18
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Prickly Pete posted:I've used a lot of psychedelics for personal and spiritual exploration, so my biases are not what you probably think. I understand the established history of indigenous shamanic use of these substances. Those people were not Buddhists. I don't think they were wrong, but it isn't a lasting path that leads to the end of suffering. Eventually I do plan on stopping the use, for now it is a rare occasion. Buddhism is a path and eventually I'll shed all desire. For now I'll concentrate on understanding the Right View .
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Jul 29, 2015 06:20
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Prickly Pete posted:I haven't sorry. I'm sure it is really good though. Nah it's not that good despite some really good performances by the lead actresses. I wouldn't call it a Buddhist movie exactly but it shows that people can have crazy life altering experiences just from something as insignificant as a fortune cookie. Overall I agree that psychedelics are a distraction but they are magic mushrooms.
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Jul 29, 2015 06:22
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goodness posted:For now I'll concentrate on understanding the Right View . That is a great place to start.
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Jul 29, 2015 06:35
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Prickly Pete posted:That is a great place to start. If you could read one book to start , what would it be?
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Jul 29, 2015 06:36
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I've been reading this pdf in paperback form and its a good primer. Buddhanet itself has a very nice collection of texts from all denominations
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Jul 29, 2015 06:42
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goodness posted:If you could read one book to start , what would it be? If you are interested in getting to the actual texts of early Buddhism, the suttas, I always suggest this: In the Buddha's Words. It basically takes the entire path from the beginning of the Buddha himself, through his realization and enlightenment, his first teachings, the eight-fold path, and so on. It is probably the most comprehensive intro for the serious student I have ever found. Written by probably the best living translator of Pali Buddhist texts. He has been an ordained monk since the 70s, and he is a great writer. He got a PhD in Philosophy before becoming a monk, and he approaches the texts in a really academic but understandable way. Also, there is no traditional sniping like you might see in other texts, as these suttas are basically common among all schools. The Dalai Lama wrote the intro to the book. edit: I would pair that book with Mindfulness in Plain English, which is probably the best beginning meditation manual at this point. Again, written by a highly respected Buddhist monk, extremely easy to read and follow. People Stew fucked around with this message at 07:00 on Jul 29, 2015 |
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Jul 29, 2015 06:57
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Prickly Pete posted:If you are interested in getting to the actual texts of early Buddhism, the suttas, I always suggest this: In the Buddha's Words. It basically takes the entire path from the beginning of the Buddha himself, through his realization and enlightenment, his first teachings, the eight-fold path, and so on. It is probably the most comprehensive intro for the serious student I have ever found. Ordered both of those thanks. From the little I read about each book they should be the perfect start and answer a lot of my early questions. I was meditating this morning and had my first experience that was more than just sitting and thinking. It was almost as if I went into a dream state while still awake, as if my eyes were open but were closed.
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Jul 29, 2015 15:09
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goodness posted:Ordered both of those thanks. From the little I read about each book they should be the perfect start and answer a lot of my early questions. There is an entire section in "Mindfulness" about those kind of experiences. They will come and go. Sometimes you'll feel burning sensations or heat in parts of the body. Sometimes your head will feel like it has gotten huge, or that the room has expanded. You'll also start recollecting things that you may have not thought of in many years, etc. All of those things are frantic efforts by your mind to regain its stranglehold and not have to shut up for a while. It is best to just acknowledge them and return to the breath, but it is hard to do sometimes. I think you'll enjoy the book though. In the Buddhas Words is more of a sit down and quietly, carefully study kind of book in my opinion. The Suttas aren't very easy to read and involve a lot of repetition, but he spends a lot of time explaining them very thoroughly before each chapter.
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Jul 29, 2015 16:38
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"Returning to the breath" ain't so good either. I barely pay attention to my breathing, it's a natural process, like a heartbeat. No reason to. Meditating on it is asking to go a whole new kind of crazy. Of course tens of thousands of buddhist teachers couldnt be wrong i guess.
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Jul 29, 2015 16:44
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Tautologicus posted:"Returning to the breath" ain't so good either. I barely pay attention to my breathing, it's a natural process, like a heartbeat. No reason to. Meditating on it is asking to go a whole new kind of crazy. Of course tens of thousands of buddhist teachers couldnt be wrong i guess. I'm just using the breath as an example of the most commonly used meditation object, but since there are many, I guess just return to whatever you're using.
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Jul 29, 2015 16:48
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Prickly Pete posted:I'm just using the breath as an example of the most commonly used meditation object, but since there are many, I guess just return to whatever you're using. I know..alright why not. I don't know any better. I don't see anything to fixate with, or on, and for what.
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Jul 29, 2015 16:55
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So what is the problem with concentrating on breathing vs. something else? Or is using a tool to let go supposed to be temporary?
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Jul 29, 2015 16:59
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It isn't a problem really. It is just a tool to help still the mind. It is also something that is always with you, so it is pretty convenient. Some people focus on the rising and falling of the abdomen, some suggest counting the breaths, some suggest placing the attention on the part of the nostril where you can feel the air coming in and out (I think that might be a Burmese thing, I have read that technique from Pa Auk Sayadaw I believe). The goal is just to quiet the mind from jumping from thought to thought, sensation to sensation, memory to memory in rapid succession like it normally does. For reference, mindfulness of breathing was taught by the Buddha, so I stick with it: https://suttacentral.net/en/mn118 People Stew fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Jul 29, 2015 |
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Jul 29, 2015 17:04
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goodness posted:So what is the problem with concentrating on breathing vs. something else? Or is using a tool to let go supposed to be temporary? Nothing, don't let me confuse you.
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Jul 29, 2015 17:06
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Prickly Pete posted:It isn't a problem really. It is just a tool to help still the mind. It is also something that is always with you, so it is pretty convenient. Some people focus on the rising and falling of the abdomen, some suggest counting the breaths, some suggest placing the attention on the part of the nostril where you can feel the air coming in and out (I think that might be a Burmese thing, I have read that technique from Pa Auk Sayadaw I believe).
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Jul 29, 2015 17:47
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Ajahn Brahm is good stuff. I forget about him sometimes but I listened to a lot of his talks when I started following Ajahn Chah.
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Jul 29, 2015 18:01
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Prickly Pete posted:Ajahn Brahm is good stuff. I forget about him sometimes but I listened to a lot of his talks when I started following Ajahn Chah. Just for anyone's information, Ajahn Brahm and monks from his monastery have explainations of almost the entire Majjhima Nikaya (a collection of pali suttas) freely available here. They're also on youtube, link. Not a bad idea to check out some of these for anyone reading the suttas. It's very helpful, the English translations can sometimes be quite dense.
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Jul 29, 2015 18:09
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Rhymenoceros posted:Agreed. All good stuff. I usually refer to Bhikkhu Bodhi's Majjhima Nikaya lectures, since he is so familiar with the Pali (and translated or edited most of them): http://bodhimonastery.org/a-systematic-study-of-the-majjhima-nikaya.html The caveat being his style of lecture can be a little boring or long-winded, so it is easier to pay attention to Ajahn Brahm or Ajahn Sujato, who I am increasingly becoming a fan of. Rhymenoceros posted:It's very helpful, the English translations can sometimes be quite dense. To put it lightly. I appreciate the effort to maintain the original feel of the texts, but they can be hard to wade through sometimes, for sure. I often learn more by listening to talks about the specific sutta than I do from reading it. My eyes tend to glaze over.
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Jul 29, 2015 18:15
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I'm looking for things to listen to on my daily hour drive. Got any non music recommendations
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Jul 29, 2015 18:41
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Prickly Pete posted:All good stuff. PrinceRandom posted:I'm looking for things to listen to on my daily hour drive. Got any non music recommendations
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Jul 29, 2015 19:30
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Prickly Pete posted:There is an entire section in "Mindfulness" about those kind of experiences. They will come and go. Sometimes you'll feel burning sensations or heat in parts of the body. Sometimes your head will feel like it has gotten huge, or that the room has expanded. You'll also start recollecting things that you may have not thought of in many years, etc. All of those things are frantic efforts by your mind to regain its stranglehold and not have to shut up for a while. Physical breath is a metaphor and stepping-stone for the pranic inner breath.
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Jul 29, 2015 22:04
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What is the logic behind forbidding causing suffering in buddhism? Isn't pain and death a part of existance?
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Aug 1, 2015 01:49
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Friendly Tumour posted:What is the logic behind forbidding causing suffering in buddhism? Isn't pain and death a part of existance? Does causing suffering bring you joy or suffering?
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Aug 1, 2015 02:27
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Friendly Tumour posted:What is the logic behind forbidding causing suffering in buddhism? Isn't pain and death a part of existance? In Buddhism a human being is looked on kind of like a bull in a china shop or someone with their eyes covered swinging an axe around. They know not what they do, but their actions have uncertain and harmful effects. These effects not only hurt others but they hurt oneself acting as a feedback loop of karma. The precepts and the eightfold path are partly intended to minimize the effects of human action before they go further into the reasons for their behavior, in some semblance of solitude. In my mind the eightfold path is not primarily an ethical path (does not answer the question "what is good and right?"), but it is effectively one (you end up doing something that looks a lot like "the right thing" from other viewpoints).
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Aug 1, 2015 02:46
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I don't totally mean that last part, it's also one of the most comprehensive ethical documents out there. It's not trying to make you a model good person though. That would be a huge misunderstanding. It's a stopgap measure.
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Aug 1, 2015 02:51
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