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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:My impression was that Tensing started to put his hand in to reach for the seatbelt latch, DuBose reached for the key in the ignition, Tensing moved to try to push DuBose's hand away from the ignition, thereby pushing DuBose back in the seat and shot at the same time. I'll have to rewatch, though. I imagine you'll understand that I don't really want to make a gif of that particular bit of video, regardless of the fact that DuBose's head was blurred out.
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Jul 30, 2015 01:56
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Is that the tazer in his hands? If so it looks like the kid popped him in the nose with his elbow when he turned, then tried to wrestle it out of his hands. Is there anything to show if the kid was continuing to beat the guy? Or did he just shoot him during the struggle over the tazer?
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Jul 30, 2015 02:06
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Anyone willing to argue that Ofc. Phillip Kidd, who lied in his official report about the death of Sam DuBose, shouldn't be fired?
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Jul 30, 2015 02:12
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Trabisnikof posted:Anyone willing to argue that Ofc. Phillip Kidd, who lied in his official report about the death of Sam DuBose, shouldn't be fired? It's possible Toasticle and/or ElCondemn might be willing to argue against facts and video again.
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Jul 30, 2015 02:14
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FAUXTON posted:It's possible Toasticle and/or ElCondemn might be willing to argue against facts and video again. Nah, I'm not looking to argue about if he lied. I'm saying assuming he did, should that be grounds for dismissal? For context, any false statements made would be a Felony in Ohio I'm pretty sure. Trabisnikof fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Jul 30, 2015 |
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Jul 30, 2015 02:18
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Has his kickstarter pulled in defense funds yet?
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Jul 30, 2015 02:21
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Trabisnikof posted:I'm saying assuming he did, should that be grounds for dismissal? Is there a good argument that it shouldn't?
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Jul 30, 2015 02:26
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Gawker just posted a copy of a police report concerning the Dubose shooting here. It appears to be from an officer who later responded (could've been a supervisor, maybe). It's pretty much bullshit. EDIT: I expect the other cop, Kidd, will face some sort of discipline (maybe even charges) after reading this. C2C - 2.0 fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Jul 30, 2015 |
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Jul 30, 2015 02:27
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Veskit posted:Is there a good argument that it shouldn't? Unclear. Dead Reckoning posted:I'm not a cop, but I worked as a bureaucrat for long enough that I've come to believe that everyone lies at some point, and it isn't necessarily a black-and-white thing. Sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture. Dead Reckoning posted:I never said that lying should go unpunished. Agrajag's original contention was that any lie on an official report should result in immediate termination, no excuses. Yeah, lying to secure a conviction or cover up an unlawful use of force should result in jail time or termination, but not every lie is going to rise to that level. There are discipline measures other than termination available that should be considered depending on the nature and severity of the lie.
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Jul 30, 2015 02:28
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Trabisnikof posted:Unclear. That's arguing something entirely different than the situation. I don't see how anyone could come up with a good argument that you wouldn't receive an expedited termination for lying under those circumstances.
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Jul 30, 2015 02:37
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Dead Reckoning posted:So, Toasticle, ElCondemn, still wanna say he was just trying to get away? You're still ignoring the part where the cop escalated the situation every step of the way, from pulling the kid over unnecessarily, to dragging him out of the car when he was being disagreeable (without backup, at that), and then tazing him when he wouldn't put his arms behind his back quickly enough for the cop's satisfaction. This is part of the problem people are sick of. Cops aggressively create and escalate situations, then when things go even a bit sideways can claim that they were "defending" themselves and get away with it. If the unarmed kid was being uncooperative and the officer had to insist on arresting him, he could have covered him, called for backup, and then they could have removed him from the vehicle with a minimum of force and no risk to anyone involved. Frankly, the way it played out it doesn't matter even if he was getting punched in face, because he created that situation in the first place. It's the same thing that outraged people about the Zimmerman situation - he created a confrontation unnecessarily, then responded to losing control of the confrontation by shooting a kid in the face.
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Jul 30, 2015 02:39
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Trabisnikof posted:Nah, I'm not looking to argue about if he lied. Well, falsifying a police report is a crime, in Ohio that's in section 2921.12 of the Ohio Revised Code. http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2921.12 I'm not sure what the University Cops have on record in their code of conduct regarding their cops being indicted/convicted of felonies and I don't know if a jury would buy a defense that the buddy cop either didn't know it to be false or didn't know a proceeding would result from that shooting. AreWeDrunkYet posted:You're still ignoring the part where the cop escalated the situation every step of the way, from pulling the kid over unnecessarily, to dragging him out of the car when he was being disagreeable (without backup, at that), and then tazing him when he wouldn't put his arms behind his back quickly enough for the cop's satisfaction. I don't think you watched the video, seeing as though the cop told him three times to get his hands behind his back and that he was under arrest, and the kid was fighting him off. That's like textbook "when using a tazer is OK." You're also ignoring the fact that he called for backup like a minute and a half into the video, explained to the kid that it was a misdemeanor to refuse providing ID/registration/insurance during a traffic stop, then asked for backup a second time at a little before 4 minutes in. He didn't drag the kid out of his car, instead stepping back and saying he'd taze him if he didn't get out of the car after initially trying to pull him out and backing off. After that, the kid got out, and wouldn't go prone until told multiple times, then he wouldn't spread his arms and lay down the phone, then he fought back against the cop when he was trying to arrest him. FAUXTON fucked around with this message at 03:08 on Jul 30, 2015 |
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Jul 30, 2015 02:39
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C2C - 2.0 posted:Gawker just posted a copy of a police report concerning the Dubose shooting here. quote:Looking at Officer Tensing's uniform, I could see that the back of his pants and shirt looked as if it had been dragged over a rough surface. CFD arrived and examined Officer Tensing.
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Jul 30, 2015 03:01
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FAUXTON posted:I don't think you watched the video, seeing as though the cop told him three times to get his hands behind his back and that he was under arrest, and the kid was fighting him off. That's like textbook "when using a tazer is OK." I don't think you watched it either. The kid doesn't appear to actually struggle, he just refuses to follow orders. A textbook example of when using a taser is legally okay but really shouldn't be, because the officer could doubtlessly force his hands behind his back anyway without needing to tase him.
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Jul 30, 2015 03:08
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chitoryu12 posted:I don't think you watched it either. The kid doesn't appear to actually struggle, he just refuses to follow orders. A textbook example of when using a taser is legally okay but really shouldn't be, because the officer could doubtlessly force his hands behind his back anyway without needing to tase him. Because the gif is 16MB, I'm posting a link to it on gfycat. http://gfycat.com/ReliableAthleticGuillemot I'm sure the cop was just jiggling that kid's arm around for shits and giggles and he wasn't actually fighting back. e: and a tazer is the better option since soft tissue damage from having your shoulders forced back around for cuffing is a thing. FAUXTON fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Jul 30, 2015 |
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Jul 30, 2015 03:10
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Honestly with the Dubose situation it was a terrible idea to release that video, because a good defense attorney could argue that it should be excluded due to prejudice.
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Jul 30, 2015 03:42
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Hollismason posted:Honestly with the Dubose situation it was a terrible idea to release that video, because a good defense attorney could argue that it should be excluded due to prejudice. While simultaneously releasing postmortem tox screen results saying Dubose smoked the reefer six hours prior and thus was a raging lunatic hell bent on killing cops.
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Jul 30, 2015 03:51
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Hollismason posted:Honestly with the Dubose situation it was a terrible idea to release that video, because a good defense attorney could argue that it should be excluded due to prejudice. its probative value vastly outweighs any potential prejudice, not a chance it's excluded
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Jul 30, 2015 03:56
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:its probative value vastly outweighs any potential prejudice, not a chance it's excluded Yeah, it's video record of what the defendant and his accomplices claim to have witnessed/done. There's no way in hell it gets excluded. Also lol that the Dubose family is hiring O'Mara. If that news isn't a mistake, I'd like to think that they did it just to gently caress with him/Tensing.
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Jul 30, 2015 04:05
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FAUXTON posted:Funny you say that. There are less profitable things to be known for than successfully defending the shooting of a black man. Edit: oh, it's the Duboses hiring him? Missed that.
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Jul 30, 2015 04:16
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Kalman posted:... No. That quote is from the district court. The appeals court reversed on that issue. Well I am very glad I read that wrong then.
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Jul 30, 2015 04:18
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"Killing someone is a reasonable alternative to letting the perp run and radioing in his minor offense with a full vehicle description and tag number." - something cops in America practice daily.
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Jul 30, 2015 04:20
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GreyjoyBastard posted:There are less profitable things to be known for than successfully defending the shooting of a black man. Yeah. That's why it's so funny. You know there's gonna be people watching him with a magnifying glass ready to pounce on him if it looks like he's giving anything less than 100% and on top of that he has to basically deify Dubose while boo-hissing the cop which I bet isn't making him feel too motivated.
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Jul 30, 2015 04:24
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FAUXTON posted:Yeah. That's why it's so funny. You know there's gonna be people watching him with a magnifying glass ready to pounce on him if it looks like he's giving anything less than 100% and on top of that he has to basically deify Dubose while boo-hissing the cop which I bet isn't making him feel too motivated. If he wasn't feeling motivated by the prospect of winning a high profile trial, I imagine he could have, y'know, not taken the case.
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Jul 30, 2015 04:34
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Dead Reckoning posted:If he wasn't feeling motivated by the prospect of winning a high profile trial, I imagine he could have, y'know, not taken the case. Which would have made him look like a tremendous rear end in a top hat at the outset.
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Jul 30, 2015 04:44
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The cop seeing his red bandanna-pattern hat and red shirt and asking "is this your car" meant the fate of Dubose was sealed. The only reason the cop used a polite tone of voice was because he thought he had caught an honest-to-gosh gang member and was deathly afraid.
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Jul 30, 2015 05:16
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SedanChair posted:The cop seeing his red bandanna-pattern hat and red shirt and asking "is this your car" meant the fate of Dubose was sealed. The only reason the cop used a polite tone of voice was because he thought he had caught an honest-to-gosh gang member and was deathly afraid. His shirt was like red and blue stripes, yo. E: red with white/blue stripes on the sleeves and some kind of design on the body. FAUXTON fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Jul 30, 2015 |
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Jul 30, 2015 05:16
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:its probative value vastly outweighs any potential prejudice, not a chance it's excluded This specific instance of a cop murdering someone on camera and then the evidence being excluded because of prejudice has actually happened before. If anything they'll most certainly request for a new venue.
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Jul 30, 2015 05:27
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LeeMajors posted:"Killing someone is a reasonable alternative to letting the perp run
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Jul 30, 2015 05:28
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Hollismason posted:This specific instance of a cop murdering someone on camera and then the evidence being excluded because of prejudice has actually happened before. If anything they'll most certainly request for a new venue. Was it on body camera with audio of the spoken dialogue of the incident?
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Jul 30, 2015 05:28
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FAUXTON posted:I don't think you watched the video, seeing as though the cop told him three times to get his hands behind his back and that he was under arrest, and the kid was fighting him off. That's like textbook "when using a tazer is OK." You're also ignoring the fact that he called for backup like a minute and a half into the video, explained to the kid that it was a misdemeanor to refuse providing ID/registration/insurance during a traffic stop, then asked for backup a second time at a little before 4 minutes in. He didn't drag the kid out of his car, instead stepping back and saying he'd taze him if he didn't get out of the car after initially trying to pull him out and backing off. Dead Reckoning posted:So you think, what, he was going to beat a cop unconscious and then just… drive away? Do you think the driver had thought that far in advance? What planet are you on where someone physically assaults a police officer because they don’t want to go to jail, then immediately shifts into Rational Actor mode, and doesn’t make any further panicked bad decisions? Why should the police trust in the restraint of someone who’s demonstrated that they’re willing to throw hands in order to avoid a traffic ticket? I agree in that this case is not "a straight up murder" in the same way that Dubose is, but I do think that our police "friend" here is at the very least guilty of escalating force well past where it was necessary. Is grabbing him at first and trying to pull him out of the car necessary? I don't think that it is. I don't think threatening to tase him is necessary - at this point he doesn't appear to be a threat in my book, and if I did something like that at my job (where somebody was refusing but was otherwise not an actual threat), well... there's no real reason to put hands on him. When you're speaking calmly but your body language says you are ready to throw down, people are going to notice the body language, too. It's possible you disagree with me. It's possible the police guidelines disagree with me, too (though I'm not very inclined to use them as a good example of escalation of force procedures - for example, I'm looking here, which is apparently adapted from the Orlando Police Department's force continuum ... and I don't really agree, but I'm not a professional in this field either). I agree that yes, given that the kid eventually DID end up going after the cop, the cop was justified in shooting him - were I in that situation I'd have feared for my life too. But I don't agree that the cop necessarily needed to make that situation happen. Maybe he just decided to be more aggressive than he needed to be. Maybe it's police procedure, like I linked above, to start getting physical without the other person getting physical - a procedure I personally disagree with. Maybe Deven Guilford would have gone off no matter how calm and collected the cop would have been about having his orders refused (I doubt this! But it's possible). However, I don't think equating Deven Guilford's death to Samuel Dubose's is particularly helpful to the discussion.
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Jul 30, 2015 06:09
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Article about Raynette Turner: 43-Year-Old Mother of 8 Dies Inside NY Jail Humanity's finest expound upon the "get arrested=enter into a game of death" philosophy:  
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Jul 30, 2015 08:14
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SedanChair posted:Article about Raynette Turner: Can we just accept "criminals" and "thugs" as dysphemisms for black people at this point? Will the O.E.D. accept that first guy's post if as an example I submit it?
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Jul 30, 2015 08:22
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Why's that even a story, "obese lady with hypertension dies in her 40s", if anyone hosed up it's the hospital.
semper wifi fucked around with this message at 11:45 on Jul 30, 2015 |
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Jul 30, 2015 11:43
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Why is she in jail for shoplifting? I mean, it happens in Australia too but only to Aborigines.
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Jul 30, 2015 11:57
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quote:City officials said it was Turner's third shoplifting arrest in recent weeks. the police..arresting thieves.. no..  (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 30, 2015 12:30
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Here in Cleveland, "He was no angel" and "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time" are in full effect on the radio. It's both incredibly sad and totally predictable.
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Jul 30, 2015 13:09
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The "good" news regarding Kidd's statement is that it looks like it was made before they released the video or made charging decisions, so it's not like he could make a CYA statement. In the press conference this was given as the reason they withheld the video this long.
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Jul 30, 2015 13:11
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semper wifi posted:Why's that even a story, "obese lady with hypertension dies in her 40s", if anyone hosed up it's the hospital. That hospital messed up so badly that they don't even have any record of her being brought in! And then evidently while treating a person off the books, they messed up by not recognizing someone with incipient life-threatening medical problems. Then after this negligent hospital returned this woman to the heroic jailors, the woman probably concealed the fact that she was in continuing distress from the jailors responsible for her care. Truly a case of the jail system working 
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Jul 30, 2015 13:11
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Devor posted:That hospital messed up so badly that they don't even have any record of her being brought in! Did you get this info from a worldstar comment or something?
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Jul 30, 2015 13:27
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