UKMT July 2015: Where Everyone is Hot and Maoist

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT July 2015: Where Everyone is Hot and Maoist

V. Illych L.: Apr 11, 2008; ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

Zeppelin Insanity posted:

In a purely factual sense? Not at all. In a cultural perception sense, quite a bit.

Withdrawing from NATO could easily be interpreted as a sign of unwillingness to oppose Russia. It's not a stretch that such a sign would embolden it.

If Russia convinced the government of Cyprus to get rid of those bases, then the UK can either resist or not. If they resist, they're violating the sovereignty of Cyprus and Russia can come help. If they don't, they're weak and have lost military assets, which will make the next such fuckery in a couple of years even more appealing.

Now, I'm not saying that is a sequence of events that will happen, or that it's a pile of dominoes. I'm saying that is a reasonable interpretation of how Russia may see things. If they took any action they're capable of taking, it wouldn't have any dramatic effect, but I don't think it would be negligible in terms of the UK's prestige and power on the international stage.

So while I think the UK would be just fine without NATO, withdrawing now would be a significant mistake in terms of the world's perception of the UK. Many Eastern European nations may also see it as abandoning them, possibly out of fear, which isn't great diplomacy.

eh, the Soviets didn't immediately start pouncing on the French when they were doing their own thing, i doubt that Russia would bother expending the money and effort unless they stand to actually gain something

i mean, i get the point, but i think you're mistaken about the way russia operates. i don't think russian strategic mentality is that different from the Soviet days, where they were mostly defensively oriented within what they considered their "rightful" sphere of influence with the odd opportunistic intervention in post-colonial areas

re: 'abandoning' eastern europe, perhaps they'd see it that way, but if one accepts the basic sixty-eighter view of NATO, offending Poland and the Baltics a bit seems like a very moderate price to pay to get out of it

V. Illych L. fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Jul 30, 2015

# ? Jul 30, 2015 17:49

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# ? May 24, 2024 22:54

OvineYeast: Jul 16, 2007; Freiheit ist immer Freiheit der Andersdenkenden

We must be in NATO to stop Russian imperialism! *enables American imperialism*

Edit: Sorry that was a loweffortpost, but I really don't see that Russia is behaving any worse than any other powerful nation state right now. The regimes it supports are no worse than those supported by the US, for example - where Russia has an Assad the US has a Sisi, etc.

OvineYeast fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Jul 30, 2015

# ? Jul 30, 2015 17:55

communism bitch: Apr 24, 2009

Guavanaut posted:

Is this something that the UK should be pursuing though? The UK gained a lot of prestige and power on the international stage when it gained an overseas colonial empire. And lost it during the process of dismantling it. But many people think that the former was a bad thing and the latter a good thing regardless of the UK's prestige.

When our dickhead PM, whom I hate, is at a G8 arsehole summit for wankers, it's important that his oppressive colonial dick is the biggest at the table full of other cunts upon whom I wish nothing but death.

# ? Jul 30, 2015 18:02

Zeppelin Insanity: Oct 28, 2009; Wahnsinn
Einfach
Wahnsinn

V. Illych L. posted:

re: 'abandoning' eastern europe, perhaps they'd see it that way, but if one accepts the basic sixty-eighter view of NATO, offending Poland and the Baltics a bit seems like a very moderate price to pay to get out of it

As I'm Polish I'm sure you can see where some of my bias comes from. :v:

As for international prestige and power, I see it as political currency to make things better for the UK, rather than just dickwaving. Yes, prestige for the sake of dickwaving is a bad thing. But it comes back to what I think about the UK's stance on the EU. If the UK was any good at international politics, they could have been the dominant force in the EU, and shaped the EU to its liking. But they didn't, and now the constant complaining and threats of exiting that the UK has been making have made it so that no one in the EU takes them seriously as a state anymore.

Surely there is political benefit to not being seen as a dickhead by most of the world.

# ? Jul 30, 2015 18:08

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

OvineYeast posted:

We must be in NATO to stop Russian imperialism! *enables American imperialism*

Edit: Sorry that was a loweffortpost

Makes it's point succinctly so I'm fine with it.

# ? Jul 30, 2015 18:20

dispatch_async: Nov 28, 2014; Imagine having the time to have played through 20 generations of one family in The Sims 2. Imagine making the original two members of that family Neil Buchanan and Cat Deeley. Imagine complaining to Maxis there was no technological progression. You've successfully imagined my life

Oberleutnant posted:

When our dickhead PM, whom I hate, is at a G8 arsehole summit for wankers, it's important that his oppressive colonial dick is the biggest at the table full of other cunts upon whom I wish nothing but death.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10275565/Syria-crisis-Paddy-Ashdown-ashamed-of-Britain-over-Commons-vote.html :britain:

# ? Jul 30, 2015 18:26

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

Zeppelin Insanity posted:

As for international prestige and power, I see it as political currency to make things better for the UK, rather than just dickwaving.

If the UK were to use its power and prestige to try and improve things for everyone, trading in a way that benefits both parties, redistributing wealth at home, using expertise to improve other countries, condemning poverty, and taking international beneficial action (a good non-military one that comes to mind is Cuban medical internationalism), I could see how increasing it could be a good thing. Medical internationalism itself is a good example of increasing prestige without necessarily being a fucker.

When all prestige will disproportionally benefit a small group of arseholes, it's less convincing though.

That's what I don't like about the arguments (made by Barack Obama among others) that "staying in the EU will maintain the UK's influence." There are good arguments for remaining in the EU, but the influence one falls flat unless it's then followed up by something concrete other than "and the City will love that poo poo."

# ? Jul 30, 2015 18:34

Zeppelin Insanity: Oct 28, 2009; Wahnsinn
Einfach
Wahnsinn

Guavanaut posted:

If the UK were to use its power and prestige to try and improve things for everyone, trading in a way that benefits both parties, redistributing wealth at home, using expertise to improve other countries, condemning poverty, and taking international beneficial action (a good non-military one that comes to mind is Cuban medical internationalism), I could see how increasing it could be a good thing. Medical internationalism itself is a good example of increasing prestige without necessarily being a fucker.

When all prestige will disproportionally benefit a small group of arseholes, it's less convincing though.

That's what I don't like about the arguments (made by Barack Obama among others) that "staying in the EU will maintain the UK's influence." There are good arguments for remaining in the EU, but the influence one falls flat unless it's then followed up by something concrete other than "and the City will love that poo poo."

I absolutely agree with you that that's the state things are currently in.

I guess I'm just idealistic and keep thinking in terms of the good that might be accomplished with international power and prestige if a good government got in power in the UK. That's why I tend to see accumulating that soft currency to be a good thing, because I see the good things that can be done with it rather than really thinking through how it would actually go.

# ? Jul 30, 2015 18:41

Myrddin_Emrys: Mar 27, 2007; by Hand Knit

So... do we send in the army to the channel tunnel or not?

# ? Jul 30, 2015 18:56

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

Zeppelin Insanity posted:

I guess I'm just idealistic and keep thinking in terms of the good that might be accomplished with international power and prestige if a good government got in power in the UK. That's why I tend to see accumulating that soft currency to be a good thing, because I see the good things that can be done with it rather than really thinking through how it would actually go.

Basically for every 'good idea' the problem is realising how evil shitheads can abuse the system to their benefit and humanity's detriment.

# ? Jul 30, 2015 19:11

Lord Ludikrous: Jun 7, 2008; Enjoy your tea...

Myrddin_Emrys posted:

So... do we send in the army to the channel tunnel or not?

There have been calls to send in the SAS or the Gurkhas, because you need elite special forces to contain impoverished migrants you see.

# ? Jul 30, 2015 19:13

namesake: Jun 19, 2006; "When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

Myrddin_Emrys posted:

So... do we send in the army to the channel tunnel or not?

I agree it's been too long since we invaded France.

# ? Jul 30, 2015 19:18

hakimashou: Jul 15, 2002; Upset Trowel

Barry Foster posted:

And yet everyone on my facebook feed is apoplectic with rage about the fate of poor old Cecil or lovely little foxie-woxies, while not giving a gently caress about what the Tories are doing.

(to be clear, I despise trophy/fox hunting, but I'm also deeply suspicious of people who appear to care more about animals than they do about people)

There is a wonderful,quote, somewhere, which I have looked hard for but not been able to find. About the British being a race known for their something, their hypocrisy, and their kindness to animals.

# ? Jul 30, 2015 19:19

Looke: Aug 2, 2013

quote:

gently caress socks and sandals

# ? Jul 30, 2015 19:23

Total Meatlove: Jan 28, 2007; Rangers died, shoujo Hitler cried ;_;

namesake posted:

I agree it's been too long since we invaded France.

Given that the French have virtually abandoned running the area it's less an invasion and more of a terra nullius deal.

# ? Jul 30, 2015 19:24

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

hakimashou posted:

There is a wonderful,quote, somewhere, which I have looked hard for but not been able to find. About the British being a race known for their something, their hypocrisy, and their kindness to animals.

drat, now I can't remember where I read that either.

# ? Jul 30, 2015 19:27

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

Ludicro posted:

There have been calls to send in the SAS or the Gurkhas, because you need elite special forces to contain impoverished migrants you see.

let's send in the Gurkhas to sort out those foreigners :shepface:

# ? Jul 30, 2015 19:30

Plasmafountain: Jun 17, 2008

Is there anybody else (Bozza?) around that works in engineering that I can ask for a quick salary check?

I've got an interview on monday for a company in surrey that develops some particularly spiffy engines. The job was advertised as an "analytical engineer" job taking care of some CFD and FEA simulation. The recruiting agency asked me for a ballpark salary and I had no idea what the hell I'm worth so I went with �22-25k.

I've since been put forward for interview and got the actual job description that the agency was handed and I feel it was significantly under-played - if this thing is to be believed then I'm pretty much designing the entirety of the engine system and solving any and all of its issues. Am I right in thinking that I should be asking for more salary than the initial figure I quoted?

# ? Jul 30, 2015 19:33

JFairfax: Oct 23, 2008; by FactsAreUseless

Zero Gravitas posted:

Is there anybody else (Bozza?) around that works in engineering that I can ask for a quick salary check?

I've got an interview on monday for a company in surrey that develops some particularly spiffy engines. The job was advertised as an "analytical engineer" job taking care of some CFD and FEA simulation. The recruiting agency asked me for a ballpark salary and I had no idea what the hell I'm worth so I went with �22-25k.

I've since been put forward for interview and got the actual job description that the agency was handed and I feel it was significantly under-played - if this thing is to be believed then I'm pretty much designing the entirety of the engine system and solving any and all of its issues. Am I right in thinking that I should be asking for more salary than the initial figure I quoted?

Give the recruiter a call and ask them at what salary they submitted you at. If they ask why, say that after reviewing the job description you feel that the salary range you gave is a little lower for the scope of the role.

Remember it is in the recruiter's interest to get you the highest salary possible on a permanent position because then their commission will increase.

You want to speak with the recruiter before the interview about this to make sure you're aware of where you've been pitched to the company by them and to avoid if possible negotiating after an offer is made. Although it's possible it's not ideal to turn around after an offer has been tabled and ask for more. If the recruiter has a good relationship with the client they should be asked for their advice on what level the offer should be made at.

Also did you let the recruiter know what salary you're currently on?

# ? Jul 30, 2015 19:47

Zeppelin Insanity: Oct 28, 2009; Wahnsinn
Einfach
Wahnsinn

Yes. 22-25k is certainly in the range of what a new graduate in an engineering firm might earn, judging by my time trawling through graduate recruitment offers.

# ? Jul 30, 2015 19:48

Total Meatlove: Jan 28, 2007; Rangers died, shoujo Hitler cried ;_;

Zero Gravitas posted:

Is there anybody else (Bozza?) around that works in engineering that I can ask for a quick salary check?

I've got an interview on monday for a company in surrey that develops some particularly spiffy engines. The job was advertised as an "analytical engineer" job taking care of some CFD and FEA simulation. The recruiting agency asked me for a ballpark salary and I had no idea what the hell I'm worth so I went with �22-25k.

I've since been put forward for interview and got the actual job description that the agency was handed and I feel it was significantly under-played - if this thing is to be believed then I'm pretty much designing the entirety of the engine system and solving any and all of its issues. Am I right in thinking that I should be asking for more salary than the initial figure I quoted?

Why the gently caress would you say �25k when you work in CAD? Why say a number at all?

And yes, the phrase "After a careful reexamination of the job particulars, with reference to responsibilities a) b) and c), I feel that the minimum expected salary I would be willing to negotiate from is (2x what you think you're worth)', should be the second or third sentence in your reply
They can only say 'were willing to pay x', why not argue for yourself?

# ? Jul 30, 2015 19:52

forkboy84: Jun 13, 2012; Corgis love bread. And Puro

I guess it's time to stop cheering on Jeremy Corbyn now because George Galloway has announced if Corbae wins he'll apply to rejoin the Labour Party "pretty darn quick...hundreds of thousand would."

Dammit Galloway you shitebag, can't you let us have this moment? Do you have to loving ruin it by opening your stupid, selfish gob?

# ? Jul 30, 2015 19:55

Plasmafountain: Jun 17, 2008

forkboy84 posted:

I guess it's time to stop cheering on Jeremy Corbyn now because George Galloway has announced if Corbae wins he'll apply to rejoin the Labour Party "pretty darn quick...hundreds of thousand would."

Dammit Galloway you shitebag, can't you let us have this moment? Do you have to loving ruin it by opening your stupid, selfish gob?

If corbyn wears the cat suit I'm out. *fluo gif*

Total Meatlove posted:

Why the gently caress would you say �25k when you work in CAD? Why say a number at all?

And yes, the phrase "After a careful reexamination of the job particulars, with reference to responsibilities a) b) and c), I feel that the minimum expected salary I would be willing to negotiate from is (2x what you think you're worth)', should be the second or third sentence in your reply
They can only say 'were willing to pay x', why not argue for yourself?

In all honesty I was a bit blindsided, I wasnt expecting to get an 830am call asking about a job I'd applied to at 11pm last night. And I have no idea what I'm worth but I'm guessing a drat sight more than �25k given how interested these guys apparently are. Like others have said, �22-25k is generally about the rate of a new grad, but the rate of a new grad with most of an Msc, decent CFD/FEA skills and experience in at least three different programs for either? :shrug:

Plasmafountain fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Jul 30, 2015

# ? Jul 30, 2015 20:00

Kegluneq: Feb 18, 2011; Mr President, the physical reality of Prime Minister Corbyn is beyond your range of apprehension. If you'll just put on these PINKOVISION glasses...

Guavanaut posted:

let's send in the Gurkhas to sort out those foreigners

Sending in Army recruiters would make more sense. Twenty years of service will get you citizenship, barbarians :hist101:

# ? Jul 30, 2015 20:49

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

forkboy84 posted:

I guess it's time to stop cheering on Jeremy Corbyn now because George Galloway has announced if Corbae wins he'll apply to rejoin the Labour Party "pretty darn quick...hundreds of thousand would."

Dammit Galloway you shitebag, can't you let us have this moment? Do you have to loving ruin it by opening your stupid, selfish gob?

Between Gallingway and Lembit Opalfruits I'm starting to think people are endorsing Corbyn to sabotage his campaign.

# ? Jul 30, 2015 21:12

JFairfax: Oct 23, 2008; by FactsAreUseless

Lembit Oprick surely

# ? Jul 30, 2015 21:20

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

I dunno, given the previous Lib Dem paedo scandal any opportunity to suggest one of them is 'fruity' seems apt.

# ? Jul 30, 2015 21:21

Darth Walrus: Feb 13, 2012

Tesseraction posted:

I dunno, given the previous Lib Dem paedo scandal any opportunity to suggest one of them is 'fruity' seems apt.

I thought 'fruity' meant 'gay'.

# ? Jul 30, 2015 21:23

JFairfax: Oct 23, 2008; by FactsAreUseless

yeah.

plus they've been called starburst for like 20 years.

# ? Jul 30, 2015 21:25

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

Darth Walrus posted:

I thought 'fruity' meant 'gay'.

Ah, I've always been blindsided by that (ugh) South Park episode about a 'fruity little club' referring to a bunch of childfuckers.

# ? Jul 30, 2015 21:30

sebzilla: Mar 17, 2009; Kid's blasting everything in sight with that new-fangled musket.

Zero Gravitas posted:

If corbyn wears the cat suit I'm out. *fluo gif*

What's the Fluo gif?

# ? Jul 30, 2015 21:35

Plasmafountain: Jun 17, 2008

Fluo (I think?) when he got caught on BBC news giving his idea of Thatchers death - "I'm from X and she killed my home town" *handwave*

# ? Jul 30, 2015 21:38

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

lol the gently caress? That's Mr. Flunchy who literally posted on the previous page http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3728973&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=131#post448349160

# ? Jul 30, 2015 21:40

hookerbot 5000: Dec 21, 2009

Zero Gravitas posted:

Fluo (I think?) when he got caught on BBC news giving his idea of Thatchers death - "I'm from X and she killed my home town" *handwave*

I don't think it was Fluo, wasn't it was Mr (I want to say Flunchy?)

edit: och, beaten.

# ? Jul 30, 2015 21:41

V. Illych L.: Apr 11, 2008; ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

it was flunchy, and it was ukmt's finest hour

# ? Jul 30, 2015 21:42

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

I dunno what about that time we overthrew parliament?

poo poo did I spill the beans

# ? Jul 30, 2015 21:43

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

sebzilla posted:

What's the Fluo gif?

I assumed it was his old av with the beers and was confused.

Tesseraction posted:

I dunno what about that time we overthrew parliament?

poo poo did I spill the beans

Why did we replace them all with shitposters?

# ? Jul 30, 2015 21:46

Plasmafountain: Jun 17, 2008

Welp I am shamed.

# ? Jul 30, 2015 22:05

Angepain: Jul 13, 2012; what keeps happening to my clothes

Guavanaut posted:

Why did we replace them all with shitposters?

they started out acting like Tories ironically and then they started believing it

we must be careful about what we pretend to be

# ? Jul 30, 2015 22:20

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# ? May 24, 2024 22:54

nuzak: Feb 13, 2012

Ludicro posted:

There have been calls to send in the SAS or the Gurkhas, because you need elite special forces to contain impoverished migrants you see.

well presumably the calls are there because they feel that the existing border forces are unwilling to do what the special forces are best at :commissar:

# ? Jul 30, 2015 23:07

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